Hawes Need to Develop a Mean Streak

[bajaden]

I think there have been cases of toughening up, but the end result is more "tougher" than "tough". Thing is though that back in the old days guys arrived in the league at 22 after 4 years of school-- they were largely what they were. All the more reason why this is a critical time for Spencer as wuss -- he's still young. He may still be able to change. By the time you reach 25 you rarely do.

Some possible examples we are very familiar with -- Vlade himself. Don't remember what his game as like when he arrived, but he was very soft and Magic was on him about it. Obviously he never became remotely a tough guy, but he did become a player willing to play physically in the post. And CWebb (PF, not C), one of the reasons that Washington was willing to dump him was that he had become lazy and self indulgent in Washington and was wasting there time sitting outside as a 3pt chucker. He took 205 3ptrs the year ebfore we got him. Then he grew up and settled in for us. And while he never was the consistent post masher his detractors wanted him to be, he didn't shy from it when it was there and he only had one year when he took any significant number of threes.

Vlade is the guy I would love to see Hawes emmulate. Vlade and another guy named Walton would set up in the low post and then the game would pass through them. Both were terrific passers and both had low post skills. Hawes has the skill set to play the same way. When you have someone that can set up in the low post thats able to pass to cutters, drop step back and shoot the ball or hook with either hand, your hard to defend and you'll draw constant double teams. Which opens up the offense even more. Dream a little dream for me..

 

[fnordius]

Very few starting center is shorter than 6-10.5

I'm not really buying that. Out of about 450 guys who have shown up for the predraft measurements since 2004, only 17 of them measured over 6'10.5". And a lot of those were guys like Frans Steyn and Luke Schenscher, who would never in a million years start in the NBA.

Hawes is the same height as Keon Clark, or Eddy Curry. He's taller than Hunter, Bosh, Diop, Aldridge, Armstrong, Battie, Frye or Nene. He's an inch taller than Dwight Howard or Alonzo Mourning, 1.75" taller than Okafor, and two inches taller than Al Jefferson or Amare.

If he's shying away from contact because he thinks he's too short, I'd think that was kind of pathetic. That's like... failing to make the transition to the NBA.

EDIT: Aw, crap, Brick beat me to it.

 

[bajaden]

I'm not really buying that. Out of about 450 guys who have shown up for the predraft measurements since 2004, only 17 of them measured over 6'10.5". And a lot of those were guys like Frans Steyn and Luke Schenscher, who would never in a million years start in the NBA.

Hawes is the same height as Keon Clark, or Eddy Curry. He's taller than Hunter, Bosh, Diop, Aldridge, Armstrong, Battie, Frye or Nene. He's an inch taller than Dwight Howard or Alonzo Mourning, 1.75" taller than Okafor, and two inches taller than Al Jefferson or Amare.

If he's shying away from contact because he thinks he's too short, I'd think that was kind of pathetic. That's like... failing to make the transition to the NBA.

EDIT: Aw, crap, Brick beat me to it.

Actually I beat Bricky to it, barely. But hey, great minds think alike...

 

[HighTopKicks]

I'd hold off a bit more on blaming Westphal for this. All indications are that he is telling Hawes to get in the paint more and wants him to play in the paint more. We have no real way of knowing, but that may be part of the reason he's not starting.

That's what PW said, but how many times in the last 3 games have you seen any of the guards actually feed the ball into Hawes deep in the paint. Sure, he got some easy dunks after Tyreke penetrated and the defense calapsed on him, but I'm talking plays called out where Hawes is already in position and doesn't have to backdown into an already packed paint. JT hasn't had many opportunities except in the SA game.

Bynum got a couple jumpers over Hawes, but they were just short of the FT line and Bynum was falling away. Bynum also go a hook over Hawes from outside the paint along the right baseline. But, he didn't back him down and get any dunks. And, either did TD in the SA game.

I think he's been tough on defense, and could be more agressive on offense. But, with the opposition packing the lane waiting for Martin & Tyreke, it's tough when your getting the ball outside the paint. I say one play in 3 games where he got the ball in front of the rim and he sunk a turn around jumper.

Hawes has taken 4 3pt shots in 3 games, and one was a last sec. shot as the quarter ended. The other three he was wide open, as compared to the contested 3pts that others are taking. No Hawes isn't Dwight Howard and the sooner we accept him for what he is and judge him on how that person is performing we'll be less angry. Martin isn't Wade either but people don't rag on him as much as they do on Hawes.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Martin isn't Wade either but people don't rag on him as much as they do on Hawes.

Oh yeah we do! Martin with 0 rebs and 0 assists is pretty special!

 

[PJAZZ19]

Hawes should continue to work with teammate Kenny Thomas. Kenny intimidates the opposition.

"With a frustrated, angry grin, he added, "I have a lot of pride."--Kenny Thomas

Hawes needs to mimic that grin.

 

[CruzDude]

Well, Hawes put one together tonight. Didn't back down once and pounded with Gasol pretty well. KT came in couple of times and did really well guarding Zach. This was one of Hawes best games and at a good time. JT on the other hand never really got it going and May, was, well....uhh, not into it yet. Guess all you Hawes negatory types will have to wait more.

 

[AriesMar27]

Hawes has taken 4 3pt shots in 3 games, and one was a last sec. shot as the quarter ended. The other three he was wide open, as compared to the contested 3pts that others are taking. No Hawes isn't Dwight Howard and the sooner we accept him for what he is and judge him on how that person is performing we'll be less angry. Martin isn't Wade either but people don't rag on him as much as they do on Hawes.

hawes shot 3 of them today and missed all 3... i dont think that anyone here will ever confuse hawes with howard or martin with wade.

 

[HighTopKicks]

hawes shot 3 of them today and missed all 3... i dont think that anyone here will ever confuse hawes with howard or martin with wade.

There's just no way your ever going to give Hawes his props, Are You? Well, If Hawes has a couple more good games, you'll just have to bad mouth JT.

Seems like bad mouthing some Kings player is all you have to offer!

 

[Citizen Able]

recant...

After game two I stated in frustration that Hawes ought to be traded. I was disgusted with his supremely weak play. It was pathetic.

Well he certainly redeemed himself last night. That's the hardest I have seen him work maybe ever. He actually established position on the block...grabbed the ball with two hands...gave a shoulder shiver to Gasol and then took it up strong for the half hook.

I wondered if I would ever see that again from him. He should play like that every night whether its working or not; doesn't matter. It is what the Kings need from him. Good job Spencer, keep it up.

Maybe he doesn't need to be traded right now.

PS. Westphal is an excellent coach. I have to believe he lit a fire under Spencer heiney which is why he found his cajones last night.

 

[bajaden]

Last night was the Hawes I remembered from college. He played with an edge, and in my opinion, outplayed Marc Gasol. Three pointers aside, he had a hell of a game. Hopefully this is the start of a trend with him. He used his whole bag of tricks last night and showed patience when needed. Good game!

 

[AriesMar27]

There's just no way your ever going to give Hawes his props, Are You? Well, If Hawes has a couple more good games, you'll just have to bad mouth JT.

Seems like bad mouthing some Kings player is all you have to offer!

i like hawes, hawes is cool... but hawes is a wuss... next game we play the hawks, hopefully he can put up similar numbers against horford.

i also find it hilarious that some of you are cool with westphal lighting a fire under hawes by starting may ahead of him but are against him doing the same thing with evans.

hawes is our best chance at being a winning team agin, moreso than martin or evans... we need a post presence so bad... he has so many skills but he is a wuss and wont use them.

 

[beb0p]

You keep mentioning the 6'10.5" inch height wihtout shoes thing, but that's not the way its measured in the NBA -- they measure with shoes. Which doesn't make him any taller, but it does mean that when a TV broadcaster says that so and so is 7'1" tall, that's wtih shoes. Wihtout, thta guy might be an inch taller than Spencer, tops.

Okay, back up. I NEVER said Hawes is undersized. NEVER. I said he is at the low end of the scale among centers. 6-10.5 is not undersized, but there are plenty of bigger and taller starting centers.

Does it matter if I say Hawes' height with or without shoes? The point is he is not as big as some of the guys he's going up against.

And no, being 6-10.5 is not a disadvantage in itself, you need to look at the whole package: height, strength, length and athleticism. It's fine to be on the low end in height if you're at the high end in strength (Eddy Curry) or low end in strength if you are at the high end in height (Tyson Chandler). But Hawes are at the low end across all categories. Essentially you expect him to compensate with nothing but his will and his finese post game and I think that's way too optimistic.

Let's go thru some of the guys you listed:

Noah: He may be the same height as Hawes but Hawes cannot jump like Noah - a guy who plays a lot of PF and is no post presence himself. Noah has the athleticism to compensate for his height and despite his frame, he was tested as stronger than Hawes at the combine.

Oden: Bigger, stronger, more athletic than Hawes. No comparison here.

Hortford: He is really a PF. Nonetheless, Horford is 3X stronger and more athletic than Spencer.

Bargnani: Regardless of the way he plays offensively. Barg is another center who is bigger than Hawes. There's no denying that.

Bogut: Bigger and stronger, and just about even athletically compare to Hawes, though I think Bogut is more athletic.

Frye: Now we're talking. Fry is shorter and weaker than other centers. So what does he do? He shoot jumpers. Frye is one example that backups up my point about Hawes.

Howard: He has grown and is now about the same size as Hawes. Howard of course has the physical tools to compensate for his height while Hawes doesn't. Again, this is my point.

Okafor: See my description for Horford.

Kaman: Bigger and stronger, and just about even athletically compare to Hawes.

And then there are other centers who are taller than Hawes: Yao, Shaq, Brook Lopez, Bynum, Hibbert, Krstic, Ilguskas, Brad Miller, Pau Gasol, Tyson Chandler, Brandon Haywood, Dampier, etc.

Add the names above to the names on your list, there're 17 centers who are taller than Hawes (Yao, Shaq, Lopez, Bynum, Hibbert, Krstic, Z, B Miller, Pau, Tyson, Haywood, Dampier, Bogut, Oden, Barg, Kaman, Marc Gasol). Notice the list only includes centers who start or are expected to play major mins, so guys like Robin Lopez, Thabeet, and Diop are excluded.

17 centers taller than Hawes. That's a long list.

Now that's count the centers who are about the same height as Hawes: Howard, Dalembert, Noah, Biedrins, and Perkins. Notice all of them are either more athletic than Hawes or stronger or both.

So that makes 22 centers in the NBA who are at eye level to Hawes or taller. And how many on that list does Hawes have the physical advantage over? Maybe Bargnani, but that's it.

 

[beb0p]

I'm not really buying that. Out of about 450 guys who have shown up for the predraft measurements since 2004, only 17 of them measured over 6'10.5". And a lot of those were guys like Frans Steyn and Luke Schenscher, who would never in a million years start in the NBA.

Hawes is the same height as Keon Clark, or Eddy Curry. He's taller than Hunter, Bosh, Diop, Aldridge, Armstrong, Battie, Frye or Nene. He's an inch taller than Dwight Howard or Alonzo Mourning, 1.75" taller than Okafor, and two inches taller than Al Jefferson or Amare.

If he's shying away from contact because he thinks he's too short, I'd think that was kind of pathetic. That's like... failing to make the transition to the NBA.

EDIT: Aw, crap, Brick beat me to it.

Ah, there may only be 17 guys taller than Hawes since the 2004 measurement, but the NBA has centers who date before 2004 aren't there? And how many of them are taller then Hawes?

I don't think Hawes is purposely shying away from contact. But there are certain guys that he will not be able to consistent take to the post. Instead of another Oden vs. Hawes beat down, it may be wise to take his game to the perimeter against them. I just think Hawes is going to be more of an outside/inside guy than an inside/inside guy.

 

[beb0p]

I don't think anyone would argue with you about Hawes needing to get stronger, and I think some of that will come naturally as he matures. I don't think his height is a problem. He's basicly the same height or at least very close to the same height as most of the other centers in the league. And by the way he did measure over 7ft at the combine in shoes. He's exactly the same height as Noah without shoes. He's only a half inch shorter than Oden, B. Lopez, J. McGee, Bogut, and Gortat without shoes. And he's taller by a half inch than DeAndre Jordan and Hilton Armstrong.

There is however one huge difference between all these guys and Hawes except for Noah, and thats wingspan. Hawes has a wingspan of only slightly over 7ft. While all the others range from 7'3" to 7'6". Noah only has a 7'1" wingspan, but you could argue that he's more athletic than Hawes. For prespective, Evans almost has as big a wingspan as Hawes.

That reminds me about the 2007 combine, I don't know what high heels Hawes wore to the measurement but they added 2.25" to his height. I usually disregard his height at the combine because I know he isn't wearing high heels to play basketball. Normally, sneakers add 1.25" to a player so I figure Hawes' height with sneakers is 6-11.75. Just under seven feet.

And while he is just a bit shorter than Oden, Lopez, McGee, etc. Those guys are more athletic than Hawes. Again, I'm not saying Hawes is undersized but if a player is just a bit smaller he needs to make it up in other areas. For Hawes, he couldn't compensate in other areas because he is also just a bit weaker and less athletic than those players as well.

You touch on a good point about wingspan. Hawes has decent but not great wingspan. Combine with his height, strength, and athleticism; I think it'll be an uphill battle for him most games to establish a post presence. Just my two cents. So I'm not as frustrated about his softness as some you are, but I reckon he may be starting to turn a corner.

 

[Citizen Able]

not exactly...

Aries states:

i also find it hilarious that some of you are cool with westphal lighting a fire under hawes by starting may ahead of him but are against him doing the same thing with evans.

Well I never said anything about Evans in this regard. I have no problem if PW wants to start Beno over Evans for the short term. Evans will get his minutes regardless.

However, there is a substantial difference between lighting a fire under your first year player who is learning a new position and who has a total of four games experience, and doing the same for your third year starting center who has clearly shown he can play better and is frankly playing like a junior high school girl.

Dude you seem to argue just for the sake of arguing. You should be a lawyer.

 

[bajaden]

i like hawes, hawes is cool... but hawes is a wuss... next game we play the hawks, hopefully he can put up similar numbers against horford.

i also find it hilarious that some of you are cool with westphal lighting a fire under hawes by starting may ahead of him but are against him doing the same thing with evans.

hawes is our best chance at being a winning team agin, moreso than martin or evans... we need a post presence so bad... he has so many skills but he is a wuss and wont use them.

So he was a wuss last night? Personally I don't like that term. Its one thing to criticize how a player plays, but its another to call him names. If you think that Hawes played like a wuss last night, then either you don't know basketball, or, you didn't see the game. If its the later, then how would you know how he played. And, if you thought that he didn't play like a wuss last night, then give him his props. At least for last night. Is it that hard for you?

 

[Kingster]

Last night was the Hawes I remembered from college. He played with an edge, and in my opinion, outplayed Marc Gasol. Three pointers aside, he had a hell of a game. Hopefully this is the start of a trend with him. He used his whole bag of tricks last night and showed patience when needed. Good game!

It was encouraging. I need to do more of these rants about Hawes!

 

[bajaden]

That reminds me about the 2007 combine, I don't know what high heels Hawes wore to the measurement but they added 2.25" to his height. I usually disregard his height at the combine because I know he isn't wearing high heels to play basketball. Normally, sneakers add 1.25" to a player so I figure Hawes' height with sneakers is 6-11.75. Just under seven feet.

And while he is just a bit shorter than Oden, Lopez, McGee, etc. Those guys are more athletic than Hawes. Again, I'm not saying Hawes is undersized but if a player is just a bit smaller he needs to make it up in other areas. For Hawes, he couldn't compensate in other areas because he is also just a bit weaker and less athletic than those players as well.

You touch on a good point about wingspan. Hawes has decent but not great wingspan. Combine with his height, strength, and athleticism; I think it'll be an uphill battle for him most games to establish a post presence. Just my two cents. So I'm not as frustrated about his softness as some you are, but I reckon he may be starting to turn a corner.

I personally have never said the Hawes is soft. I've said that I think he's playing soft. I also think he's more athletic than you give him credit for. He has skills. He's more skilled than Howard by a long shot. But as you state, Howard is one of those freaks of nature whose very gifted athleticly and is able to compensate for his lack of skills in some areas. He's also improved dramaticaly since he came into the league.

My point is that Hawes has the skill set to compete with just about any center in the league, if he uses his skill set. Last night, he did just that. He posted up Gasol quite effectively. He made great passes once posted up high or low. When he does those things he's a load for any center to defend. He sucked Thabeet out away from the basket and then left him standing there as he went by him for a layup.

I think what most of us are complaining about, is that he hasn't been doing what we all know he capable of doing. Last night was a good start. But we need to see it in the next game and then the next game etc...

 

[bajaden]

Aries states:

Well I never said anything about Evans in this regard. I have no problem if PW wants to start Beno over Evans for the short term. Evans will get his minutes regardless.

However, there is a substantial difference between lighting a fire under your first year player who is learning a new position and who has a total of four games experience, and doing the same for your third year starting center who has clearly shown he can play better and is frankly playing like a junior high school girl.

Dude you seem to argue just for the sake of arguing. You should be a lawyer.

Shhhhh! Be careful, Bricky might be listening......

 

[Kingsguy881]

there's Just No Way Your Ever Going To Give Hawes His Props, Are You? Well, If Hawes Has A Couple More Good Games, You'll Just Have To Bad Mouth Jt.

seems Like Bad Mouthing Some Kings Player Is All You Have To Offer!

Lmao!

 

[Kingsguy881]

Aries states:

Well I never said anything about Evans in this regard. I have no problem if PW wants to start Beno over Evans for the short term. Evans will get his minutes regardless.

However, there is a substantial difference between lighting a fire under your first year player who is learning a new position and who has a total of four games experience, and doing the same for your third year starting center who has clearly shown he can play better and is frankly playing like a junior high school girl.

Dude you seem to argue just for the sake of arguing. You should be a lawyer.

You don't start Beno over Evans because Evans has already proved himself. He came into camp in great shape (unlike Hawes), he came in with a great attitude (unlike Hawes), he didn't skip out on the VSL at the last minute (unlike Hawes), he outplayed his competition for the pg spot handily (unlike Hawes), he worked extremely hard and impressed with his work ethic (unlike Hawes).

That is why he does not have to earn the position, he already did! So what if Beno has game experience and Evans has bad games here and there? Deron Williams did the same thing his rookie year. Derrick Rose did the same thing his rookie year. Numerous other players did the same thing their rookie year.

Some need to lighten up and watch more basketball and get a better understanding of how rookies should be developed. Just because we had some coaches (Adelman, Theus, Gnat, Mustardhead) who would not develop rookies does not mean that that is the way we should continue as a franchise. Develop him, see what you have. Better now than later.

 

[Citizen Able]

reading is fundamental

It seems that no matter how simple I make my statements either Aries or Kingsgurl will completely misunderstand my meaning.

To clarify. I initially never said boo about Evan starting or not starting. Aries attributed it to me. Clearly he put me in the "Evans must start" camp. Personally that is my preference but how would he know that when I have never stated it? When I responded to him I indicated I didn't care and I trust the coach.

Now Kingsgurl hasn't read my posts or just doesn't understand. She should join the Olympic "jumping to conclusions" team.

Please understand and I'll say it again for you. I said I like that Westphal apparently lit a fire under Hawes. It worked.

That is all I said. The rest is just you two trying to argue in a circle. Sheesh.

 

[SCKingsfan]

A difference I saw with Hawes last night, a couple of times at least, is a change in his high post positioning - it was more around the free throw line extended, or just above. that's pretty much where Miller played, and like with Miller, I am very happy with him getting a dish out from a penetrating guard and then taking that shot. If it's falling, they come out to guard it, and he makes a move around them. Even molasses-slow Miller could do that. That is very different than standing another 7 ft back so your in a position to catch and shoot a 3 pointer. that is more of what i've seen before with Hawes, but from there he's less accurate and it's too far away to crash the boards. Committing to that minor adjustment could be a big difference.

the other issue, obviously, relates to his low post play. We saw him do some work in there last night; i hope this new style of play and positioning is a new trend, not a blip on the radar. i'll choose to be optimistic.

 

[fnordius]

17 centers taller than Hawes. That's a long list.

Well, that's about half of the starting centers in the NBA, meaning he's just about average. According to DraftExpress' sampling of 118 NBA centers, 6'10" is average. http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=avepos&year=All

The people listed on sports.yahoo.com as the starting centers for the various franchises come out as follows (names with asterisks are estimated, since that player has no predraft measurements on record):
O'Neal (CLE): 7'1"
Hibbert (IND): 7'0.5"*
Bargnani (TOR): 7'0"
Haywood (WAS): 6'11.75"
Kaman (LAC): 6'11.5"
Gasol (MEM): 6'11.5"*
Chandler (CHA) 6'11.5"
Lopez (NJN): 6'11.25"
Oden (PTL): 6'11"
Dampier (DAL): 6'11"
Bogut (MIL): 6'11"
Bynum (LAL): 6'10.75"*
Noah (CHI): 6'10.5"
Krstic (OKC): 6'10.5"*
Okur (UTA): 6'9.5"*
Dalembert (PHI): 6'9.5"*
O'Neal (MIA): 6'9.5"*
Frye (PHO): 6'9.5"
Biedrins (GSW): 6'9.5"*
Nene (DEN): 6'9.25"
Howard (ORL): 6'9"
Okafor (NOH): 6'8.75"
Horford (ATL): 6'8.75"
Bonner (SAS): 6'8.5"
Perkins (BOS): 6'8.5"
Jefferson (MIN): 6'8.5"
Lee (NYK): 6'7.75"
Wallace (DET): 6'7"*
Hayes (HOU): 6'5.5"

This gives us 12 starting Cs who are taller, 2 that are the same, and 15 that are shorter. So, while not the biggest C around, he's taller than average, taller than median, and within an inch of all but 4 starting Cs in the NBA. Nothing wrong with that.

Unathletic? Hibbert can't run circles around him or anything, but yeah, he's pretty unathletic, and Geoff knew that when he drafted him. Wasn't the guy I wanted, maybe isn't the guy you want, but we got him. If you're thinking that our roster would be better off with someone different, I might not disagree. He may be able to pick up some PG duties well enough to play a Princeton, but it's unclear whether we really WANT that, or are only doing it because the roster's too weak to win using a different offense. And that's probably a subject better suited to the Personnel forum.

 

[AriesMar27]

It seems that no matter how simple I make my statements either Aries or Kingsgurl will completely misunderstand my meaning.

To clarify. I initially never said boo about Evan starting or not starting. Aries attributed it to me. Clearly he put me in the "Evans must start" camp. Personally that is my preference but how would he know that when I have never stated it? When I responded to him I indicated I didn't care and I trust the coach.

Now Kingsgurl hasn't read my posts or just doesn't understand. She should join the Olympic "jumping to conclusions" team.

Please understand and I'll say it again for you. I said I like that Westphal apparently lit a fire under Hawes. It worked.

That is all I said. The rest is just you two trying to argue in a circle. Sheesh.

wtf? where did i say anything to you or about anything that you've said? looking back at my posts, i dont see where i misquoted you. i havent even replied to anything that you have said up until just now...

the last time you quoted me you took that from a post where i was replying to hightopkicks... not you, unless you two are the same person...

Aries states:

Well I never said anything about Evans in this regard. I have no problem if PW wants to start Beno over Evans for the short term. Evans will get his minutes regardless.

However, there is a substantial difference between lighting a fire under your first year player who is learning a new position and who has a total of four games experience, and doing the same for your third year starting center who has clearly shown he can play better and is frankly playing like a junior high school girl.

Dude you seem to argue just for the sake of arguing. You should be a lawyer.

i wasnt even referring to you.... this is how arguments get started. this is how it started with kingsgurl... why is it that all rookie posters here seem to want to start problems with me? ive earned my stripes, read some of the older threads, my views on this team have not changed... people seem to think that this all started with rubio. thats only because you havent been here that long.

 

[VF21]

It was encouraging. I need to do more of these rants about Hawes!

Wait. You're going to take credit for his performance on Monday night? harumpf!

I'm pretty sure it was my shouting at him to remember he's 7 feet tall that did the trick.



Whatever woke him up (and I'm still at least toying with the idea it's Brockman), he sure played with fire and intensity...

 

[VF21]

General reminder:

KEEP your discussions about the topic at hand and not about other posters. It's not that hard a concept to grasp. You can disagree with someone's comments and POV all you like but if it steps over the line into silly name calling, your post is going to be edited. There are bound to be a lot of different opinions and points of view during the season about our new team, new coach, etc. Each member of this board - whether newbie or grizzled veteran - has a right to his/her opinion. The number of years you've been here doesn't make all your posts any more golden than the number of posts you have. (Probably because if that was the measuring stick you'd all have to agree with me 24/7/365. )

Play nice, folks. We've got a whole season to get through and friendly banter between knowledgeable basketball fans with differing opinions is a lot more fun to read than a bunch of finger pointing and name calling.

Thanks...

 

[Kingster]

Wait. You're going to take credit for his performance on Monday night? harumpf!

I'm pretty sure it was my shouting at him to remember he's 7 feet tall that did the trick.



Whatever woke him up (and I'm still at least toying with the idea it's Brockman), he sure played with fire and intensity...

When Tyreke is ROY I'm going to post my original post on why we should draft him. Of course, if Thompson doesn't figure it out and doesn't become a good defensive player like I thought he could be, then I'll forget all about it.

 

[dbfish]

You keep mentioning the 6'10.5" inch height wihtout shoes thing, but that's not the way its measured in the NBA -- they measure with shoes. Which doesn't make him any taller, but it does mean that when a TV broadcaster says that so and so is 7'1" tall, that's wtih shoes. Wihtout, thta guy might be an inch taller than Spencer, tops.

Just going through draft combine measurements for a number of starting centers (without shoes):

In Spencer's year (2007):
Spencer was 6'10.5"
Noah was 6'10.5"
Oden was 6'11"
Horford was 6'8.75" (obviously he should be a PF, but his lack of size hasn't made him into a wuss)

In 2006:
Bargnani was 7'0" (and the biggest wuss of them all -- its not height)

In 2005:
Bogut was 6'11"
Frye 6'9.5" (starting this year, and another mega wuss)

In 2004:
Howard was 6'9" (yep, you read that right -- think he's growna bit, but he's not 7'0")
Okafor was 6'8.75"
Jefferson 6'8.5" (another PF but playing at center)

In 2003:
Kaman was 6'11.5"

In 2002:
Nene was 6'9.25"

and just etc. I guess. I mean the general point is that Spencer is NOT short for the position. And yeah the Kings site is ridiculous in inflating some of our guys, Spencer included. But in shoes he's pretty close to a legitimate 7'0", and he's pretty much middle of the road amongst NBA centers heightwise.

You are right. I have never seen anybody in the NBA play without shoes.