Harry Giles thread back on track ;)

Harry's NBA Ceiling

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Livinthedream said:
If you believe in Harry and Marvin, you trade Willie at the deadline. Try to get that full sized wing player in the deal and move on. The team won't be able to pay WCS, Fox, Marvin and Buddy. Something has to give. Be proactive.
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You have to remember that the contract Willie ends up signing, if indeed we do resign him, will be locked into a certain amount, but the cap won't. It was at 101 mil this last summer, and is projected to go up to 109 mil next offseason and up to 118 mil the following year. So inflation will take care of some of Willie's contract. It's a matter of how much we end up paying him. If he remains inconsistent, then I doubt he gets the big payday. Just because Willie doesn't become a superstar, or even a star, doesn't mean he can't be a valuable part of the team, even if it means eventually becoming the backup center.
 
bajaden said:
You have to remember that the contract Willie ends up signing, if indeed we do resign him, will be locked into a certain amount, but the cap won't. It was at 101 mil this last summer, and is projected to go up to 109 mil next offseason and up to 118 mil the following year. So inflation will take care of some of Willie's contract. It's a matter of how much we end up paying him. If he remains inconsistent, then I doubt he gets the big payday. Just because Willie doesn't become a superstar, or even a star, doesn't mean he can't be a valuable part of the team, even if it means eventually becoming the backup center.
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Willie is an ideal back up center. Trouble is he doesn't think so. I don't blame him for his ambition.
 
bajaden said:
You have to remember that the contract Willie ends up signing, if indeed we do resign him, will be locked into a certain amount, but the cap won't. It was at 101 mil this last summer, and is projected to go up to 109 mil next offseason and up to 118 mil the following year. So inflation will take care of some of Willie's contract. It's a matter of how much we end up paying him. If he remains inconsistent, then I doubt he gets the big payday. Just because Willie doesn't become a superstar, or even a star, doesn't mean he can't be a valuable part of the team, even if it means eventually becoming the backup center.
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I understand. I find his skills to be redundant on this team and he's an asset we could use to get something we need.
 
Livinthedream said:
I understand. I find his skills to be redundant on this team and he's an asset we could use to get something we need.
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Redundant skills is the best description of the situation I've heard yet. He'll be great in the right situation, thing is, we just have 2 other guys that can do everything he can do and also a bunch more (block shots, handles in Giles, likely even outside shooting threats).

Honestly Giles is just better. I hesitate to say it but this kid could be a phenom type. A Garnett type impact but not Garnett. I see VERY little not to like about Giles. Seems like he could even be transformative type of offensive player at some point in his career.
 
Porter's contract also expires the same year Fox and Giles will get paid. I say do the deal. Giles and Kosta combined can make up any production Willie gives you and probably gives you better production from a defensive standpoint.
 
The Hammer said:
Redundant skills is the best description of the situation I've heard yet. He'll be great in the right situation, thing is, we just have 2 other guys that can do everything he can do and also a bunch more (block shots, handles in Giles, likely even outside shooting threats).

Honestly Giles is just better. I hesitate to say it but this kid could be a phenom type. A Garnett type impact but not Garnett. I see VERY little not to like about Giles. Seems like he could even be transformative type of offensive player at some point in his career.
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Agreed. Just needs time to acclimate to the nba especially after sitting for all that rehabilitation
 
Giles has cut his fouling down in half from October to November so he is getting better in that department.

Hell, the refs actually let him slap the ball out of a few players hands during the Jazz game without blowing the whistle. That's a step in the right direction. If he keeps on doing what he's doing, hopefully he can get a reputation for being good at stealing the ball and will get less fouls called via referees just blowing the whistle because they think if it's Giles, then it must be a foul.
 
bajaden said:
You have to remember that the contract Willie ends up signing, if indeed we do resign him, will be locked into a certain amount, but the cap won't. It was at 101 mil this last summer, and is projected to go up to 109 mil next offseason and up to 118 mil the following year. So inflation will take care of some of Willie's contract. It's a matter of how much we end up paying him. If he remains inconsistent, then I doubt he gets the big payday. Just because Willie doesn't become a superstar, or even a star, doesn't mean he can't be a valuable part of the team, even if it means eventually becoming the backup center.
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Off topic, but whats with the NBA player salary inflation rate? 8 to 9 percent per year is insane!
 
I find it hard but WCS is our starting center right now no matter how bad I would love to trade him. If KK could stay healthy we may be able to use our bigs to fill the void of WCS leaving.
With saying that I believe he is buying us time till we see if Giles can stay healthy and progress in his play.

Now as the season progresses this month does WCS get his minutes cut back to let Giles get more playing time or does the coach think of trying to win first. It’s a tough decision to make a big change until you are out of the playoff picture unless a deal comes along that will improve our chances of making the playoffs.
 
Tonight would be a good night for Giles to get minutes, with Bagley out.

At the 4 please. WCS and KK can (hopefully) deal with Ayton.
 
gunks said:
Tonight would be a good night for Giles to get minutes, with Bagley out.

At the 4 please. WCS and KK can (hopefully) deal with Ayton.
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The Suns like to play smallish with three wingmen, a "point guard" and Ayton but with Booker and Warren out (two of their three best play makers, I could see them going the opposite direction and doing something like going with Ayton/(Holmes or Anderson)/Ariza/Jackson/Canaan instead, which while not an ideal defensive matchup for Harry, could be survivable for him.
 
Bagley out, Kings up big and Giles no where to be seen. If I’m Giles agent, I’m pissed and looking to push for a trade.
 
sactowndog said:
Bagley out, Kings up big and Giles no where to be seen. If I’m Giles agent, I’m pissed and looking to push for a trade.
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The Kings are in the middle of their first friggin playoff run in over a decade and you're worried about whether or not the most raw player on the team is getting enough minutes?

I'm as big a fan of Giles as anyone here but at this moment in time it's the absolutely right thing for Joerger to coach to win these games over coaching for development. Kings are .5 games out of 8th and 4 games out of 1st. You don't throw that away to get Giles more minutes right now.
 
The Hammer said:
I suspect there is a little bit of minute managing going on still due to the injury.
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Maybe, but I think it's more of our rotation is pretty set when Koufos is healthy:

Fox 33 || Bogdan 15
Buddy-32 || Bogdan 16
Shumpert- 26 || JJ 14 || Troy Williams 10
Bjelica- 20 || Bagley 28
WCS- 32 || Koufos 15 || Bagley 3

Guys move around obviously in their position, but I think this minute structure is pretty close to what we want to be running at full strength. WCS, Bogdan, Buddy and Fox are all 30+ MPG (and rightfully so), Shumpert hovers around 26-28 minutes, Bagley has been 27-32 minutes since the Houston game. Williams and JJ are more of a "hot hand" approach rather than each having a consistent role, but there's about 25-30 minutes available for that swing wing role off the bench that they play.

And here's the other issue: Giles isn't playing like a guy you can fit in with a bunch of other high USG guys. He's been playing like he's the #1 option:

26.5% USG
16.8% TOV
45.1% TS
.135 FTr (although that will go up after tonight )
17.8% AST (awesome for a big)
15.8% TRB (solid)

While the assist rate is certainly exciting, these show Giles is commanding a large percentage of the possessions when he's on the floor. It'd be one thing if he were dominating, but the extremely low efficiency and high turnover rate combined with the high usage is not a recipe for playing winning basketball.

Basically he's a giant wild-card. You or I have no idea (and probably Joerger too) have no idea what we're going to get from him on a nightly basis. I know I'm going to get strong defense and strong rebounding from Kosta. And for a team that's right in the thick of things for a playoff hunt, that's what we need most.
 
sactowndog said:
Not that quick. Dude needs minutes not another year on the bench
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Last year wasn't on the bench, it was active injury recovery. I agree he needs time, but I want him to get time when he deserves it on a winning team. If you start playing guys that haven't earned the time just because they are touted prospects it leads to all kinds of problems in the locker room. I actually have Kosta and Belly above him on the depth chart. He's our 5th big, and we often have so many good guards that we play three at at time. He can't play the three, and I don't want him to try to learn while he's just getting his footing in the league. He's not wasting away. He's getting a proper amount of minutes here and there. Plus, he's still getting back into the game after nearly two years off. He's progressing rapidly. I think many of us are anxious because we can see the IMMENSE potential of the young man, and also have seen this org botch development. That was all before Vlade and Joerger. They're not gonna botch this kid. Oh hell no.
 
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The_Jamal said:
Maybe, but I think it's more of our rotation is pretty set when Koufos is healthy:

Fox 33 || Bogdan 15
Buddy-32 || Bogdan 16
Shumpert- 26 || JJ 14 || Troy Williams 10
Bjelica- 20 || Bagley 28
WCS- 32 || Koufos 15 || Bagley 3

Guys move around obviously in their position, but I think this minute structure is pretty close to what we want to be running at full strength. WCS, Bogdan, Buddy and Fox are all 30+ MPG (and rightfully so), Shumpert hovers around 26-28 minutes, Bagley has been 27-32 minutes since the Houston game. Williams and JJ are more of a "hot hand" approach rather than each having a consistent role, but there's about 25-30 minutes available for that swing wing role off the bench that they play.

And here's the other issue: Giles isn't playing like a guy you can fit in with a bunch of other high USG guys. He's been playing like he's the #1 option:

26.5% USG
16.8% TOV
45.1% TS
.135 FTr (although that will go up after tonight )
17.8% AST (awesome for a big)
15.8% TRB (solid)

While the assist rate is certainly exciting, these show Giles is commanding a large percentage of the possessions when he's on the floor. It'd be one thing if he were dominating, but the extremely low efficiency and high turnover rate combined with the high usage is not a recipe for playing winning basketball.

Basically he's a giant wild-card. You or I have no idea (and probably Joerger too) have no idea what we're going to get from him on a nightly basis. I know I'm going to get strong defense and strong rebounding from Kosta. And for a team that's right in the thick of things for a playoff hunt, that's what we need most.
Click to expand...


While I mostly agree with you, should be noted that those stats are kinda skewed by how awful he was for the first ten or so games of the year.
 
The_Jamal said:
Maybe, but I think it's more of our rotation is pretty set when Koufos is healthy:

Fox 33 || Bogdan 15
Buddy-32 || Bogdan 16
Shumpert- 26 || JJ 14 || Troy Williams 10
Bjelica- 20 || Bagley 28
WCS- 32 || Koufos 15 || Bagley 3

Guys move around obviously in their position, but I think this minute structure is pretty close to what we want to be running at full strength. WCS, Bogdan, Buddy and Fox are all 30+ MPG (and rightfully so), Shumpert hovers around 26-28 minutes, Bagley has been 27-32 minutes since the Houston game. Williams and JJ are more of a "hot hand" approach rather than each having a consistent role, but there's about 25-30 minutes available for that swing wing role off the bench that they play.

And here's the other issue: Giles isn't playing like a guy you can fit in with a bunch of other high USG guys. He's been playing like he's the #1 option:

26.5% USG
16.8% TOV
45.1% TS
.135 FTr (although that will go up after tonight )
17.8% AST (awesome for a big)
15.8% TRB (solid)

While the assist rate is certainly exciting, these show Giles is commanding a large percentage of the possessions when he's on the floor. It'd be one thing if he were dominating, but the extremely low efficiency and high turnover rate combined with the high usage is not a recipe for playing winning basketball.
Click to expand...

Bingo. Just made same/similar point. We have legit depth, seemingly out of nowhere, too. I think it's actually a great environment for him to develop in. Let him earn his minutes. He will. I view Giles as having the second highest ceiling on this team after Fox. In a year we're going to be complaining about who we need to trade.
 
One of the first concerns I had about him early on in summer league was his above the rim play. Maybe he's weary because of the knees? Don't expect him to be much of an above the rim finisher.

Gets moved around like a wet noodle.

Foul prone.

Has an intriguing post game, it's not a dominate thing but a combo of good hands and reads and multifaceted.

Can pass the ball really really well, sees the floor well. Some of the careless mistakes more than likely are because he's just a rookie.

My ceiling still solid starter voting earlier. Feel less likely he becomes that watching him so far. And it's mainly because I think he's going to get manhandled by real bigs, and doesn't offer enough to make up for that.
 
The Hammer said:
Last year wasn't on the bench, it was active injury recovery. I agree he needs time, but I want him to get time when he deserves it on a winning team. If you start playing guys that haven't earned the time just because they are touted prospects it leads to all kinds of problems in the locker room. I actually have Kosta and Belly above him on the depth chart. He's our 5th big, and we often have so many good guards that we play three at at time. He can't play the three, and I don't want him to try to learn while he's just getting his footing in the league. He's not wasting away. He's getting a proper amount of minutes here and there. Plus, he's still getting back into the game after nearly two years off. He's progressing rapidly. I think many of us are anxious because we can see the IMMENSE potential of the young man, and also have seen this org botch development. That was all before Vlade and Joerger. They're not gonna botch this kid. Oh hell no.
Click to expand...
Nice post.
 
Giles looking good consistently. Excitement is building. When back in sactown he should get a few more games in at the g league if Koufos will continue to get the nod over him. Like what I'm seeing
 
The_Jamal said:
|| Bagley 28 , WCS- 32
He's been playing like he's the #1 option:
26.5% USG
16.8% TOV
And for a team that's right in the thick of things for a playoff hunt, that's what we need most.
Click to expand...
I completely agree.
The usage rate is through the roof. He demands the ball while he is out there. He doesn't play off the ball at all. So I can understand where Joerger doesn't know where to fit him in.

Also, the mins he has to give are not much. Beli is out there opening up driving lanes, KK is a true pro, Bagley is growing before our eye as the #2 overall pick, and as long as we are in the playoff hunt WCS is our starter.

His Assists are so clean, but those turn overs are atrocious! He is a force anytime he is on the basketball court good or bad. He has to learn how to effect the game with out being the main cog all the time.
 
That play last night was a think of beauty where he went to the floor for the loose ball and threw that bullet to I think it was Williams? I have no idea how Harry saw him as he was rolling around on the floor for the ball but once he got hold of it he knew exactly where to go with it. He has elite vision for a big man already.

edit - found it

PZPR9A.gif
 
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