Harrison Barnes Likely to Receive $88 mill over 4 Years
- Thread starter Kangztillidie
- Start date
It's not my assessment. It's what the stats say.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Sometimes stats lie.
upinsmoke
All-Star
I know analytics are all the rage but hoop is a very simple game really.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
I understand your point, and it’s certainly valid — right now.
But you can’t convince me that if the KINGS became the new Warriors wherein they were the darling franchise of the NBA and winning titles — or at least competing for them — that the narrative wouldn’t change.
Winning changes all. So I don’t buy into the absolute statement of “or will”.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
Yeah, you should definitely rely on your eyes more. Much less bias and "lying" going on
whozit
Starter
Analytics are a useful tool and being able to correctly assess with the eye a valuable skill. I think if you prefer statistics the eye should verify the numbers. If you prefer the eye the statistics should confirm what you see. If they don't, you better dig deeper for explanation why. My two cents.
KingsSelecao
Bench
Barnes is getting paid what the market dictates.
There are not a lot of great SF’s in the league right now outside of James, Kawhi, Durant,
Middleton and George.
I would argue players that are still on their rookie deals already have a higher upside and will be better than Barnes this season: Josh Richardson, Brandon Ingram,
Jayson Tatum.
Barnes is definitely a Top 10 SF in the league right now. Which, is surprising, but true.
If this Harrison Barnes/SAC report ends up happening, he will be approaching $150 million in career salary with a total VORP of 2.6 and a career @bball_ref BPM of -1.4.
Absolute legend. First-team All-Ski Mask. I salute you, sir. Get that bag.
His career numbers tell you all you need to know about Barnes. He’s an average to below average SF his entire career. He won’t help much or hurt you much. His 2016 disappearance with the Warriors led to his exodus. If you don’t believe it, go back and check his playoff stats.
The market did not have a plethora of options at SF this year. Kings had to overpay.
There are not a lot of great SF’s in the league right now outside of James, Kawhi, Durant,
Middleton and George.
I would argue players that are still on their rookie deals already have a higher upside and will be better than Barnes this season: Josh Richardson, Brandon Ingram,
Jayson Tatum.
Barnes is definitely a Top 10 SF in the league right now. Which, is surprising, but true.
If this Harrison Barnes/SAC report ends up happening, he will be approaching $150 million in career salary with a total VORP of 2.6 and a career @bball_ref BPM of -1.4.
Absolute legend. First-team All-Ski Mask. I salute you, sir. Get that bag.
His career numbers tell you all you need to know about Barnes. He’s an average to below average SF his entire career. He won’t help much or hurt you much. His 2016 disappearance with the Warriors led to his exodus. If you don’t believe it, go back and check his playoff stats.
The market did not have a plethora of options at SF this year. Kings had to overpay.
Entity
Hall of Famer
How can a player be judged what he is going to do in a different system with different players and different coach based on what they did in the past with different players, system, and coaches and teams? Should we judge oladipo in Orlando or Indiana? Kyle Lowry in Houston or Toronto. What if Nash and kid were only judged on their time in Dallas?
Entity
Hall of Famer
i Would like to invite you guys to look at the lineup Harrison Barnes was playing with in Dallas. The best player he ever played with was a rookie Dennis Smith. Dirk was already gone. Yogi was getting 30+ min. Wes Matthews started and Seth curry was a bright spot for them for about 2 months.
KingsSelecao
Bench
What about that lineup in Golden State in 2016. Which dwarfs the Kings current lineup? How did Barnes do in those 2016 playoffs?
He sucked!!! If he even played half decent, it would have made a difference Big time players step up in Big Moments. Comparing him to Cwebb is hilarious. Barnes is nowhere near the same talent. I am not saying Barnes is a bad player. But, to think he still has an upward trajectory at this stage of his career is highly doubtful. Barnes has already played on a great team and that team realized he’s not that valuable. He was replaced.
He sucked!!! If he even played half decent, it would have made a difference Big time players step up in Big Moments. Comparing him to Cwebb is hilarious. Barnes is nowhere near the same talent. I am not saying Barnes is a bad player. But, to think he still has an upward trajectory at this stage of his career is highly doubtful. Barnes has already played on a great team and that team realized he’s not that valuable. He was replaced.
Heuge
Starter
That team replaced him with Kevin freakin Durant. To speculate that the Ws found no value in Barnes is to show your bias against the player. He was the causality to bring the second best player in the world in.
KingsSelecao
Bench
You don’t get my point. Barnes had a chance to shine on the biggest stage with a great great team around him. He failed.
It doesn’t matter that he was replaced by Durant. Barnes failed to show up that year and those playoffs. Period
It’s obvious you didn’t watch the playoffs that year.
Making excuses for clearly an average player. Who has been historically average his entire career is super fandom.
Barnes is merely getting paid what the SF market dictates. It has very little to do with his talent and the impact he makes on a team.
Entity
Hall of Famer
Yeah I think I am done after that line of thinking. Not only the replacement remark but that players don’t get better after 25
Entity
Hall of Famer
So an average player gets 19 ppg and shoots 37%+ from three?
There is no be all end all stat that works to perfection but lets be serious here, teams aren't led by guys that average about a .4 VORP per year. Is Harrison Barnes going to lead the team? No. But his contract does. The Kings are going to give a huge part of their salary cap to a guy who is barely above average. He's going to get paid like a guy who averages 2.5+ VORP per year.
You can act like the stat lies or it doesn't matter because you think your eye test is better but in the end almost all the good players have a high VORP and almost all the bad players have a low VORP. Whether or not you care about that is irrelevant. Show me a playoff team where the stats lie and the top players average below a 1 VORP. On the flip side, show me a bad team that has a bunch of high VORP players. Neither scenario exists.
It's why a Zach Lavine team will never win anything because you let him dominate the ball and he puts up all these numbers that look impressive in the box score but in the end you just had a guy dominate the ball all year only to wind up with a measly 1.1 VORP because he doesn't really help the team win much. Same thing with Jabari Parker, Bobby Portis, Kelly Oubre and to a lesser extend, Harrison Barnes. The numbers look decent and they look good with the eye test but they don't contribute much to winning.
I like Barnes and I don't mind having what is essentially an average player at the 3 but I don't like committing that much money to that level of production. I don't know who is willing to sign here and who isn't but theoretically you could pay a little more and get a hell of a lot more back in return on the court from another player.
Entity
Hall of Famer
Check steph curry VORP in the playoffs then get back to me on telling me that steph curry isn’t worth anything because he is a 1.5 VORP
The stat is cumulative. A 1.5 VORP in the playoffs is fantastic. That was 3rd best in the league behind Kawhi and Jokic.
His regular season VORP was 4.9 and he missed a handful of games. A few seasons ago it was an insane 9.8 when he played the entire season.
steelevt
All-Star
You bring up the contract but aren't looking at the whole picture. Yes the contract on this team is high, but that's because our young stars are in their rookie contracts. You say it's a lot for an avg player but he's getting paid the like, 17th highest salary for forwards. In a league that consists of 30 teams that seems like a good spot in pay.
Sac.Kings
All-Star
You guys know you’re just throwing fuel on the fire with the most well known negative person on this board right? There’s nothing you can say that will make that guy or gal be positive.
The reality is that he got a fair contract, possibly slightly overpaid by a couple million per year, but by and large it’s not horrendous. If the cap does grow to 130 million in a few years, we will be just fine cap wise.
I, for one, am quite glad that we seemingly are going to settle this quickly. He’s a good SF, great teammate, and a hard worker. Most importantly, he is in his mid 20s (and no that is not old) and he will be ours during his best years. He will be the 4th option maybe 5th and you can do a whole lot worse than Barnes as your 4th or 5th option.
The reality is that he got a fair contract, possibly slightly overpaid by a couple million per year, but by and large it’s not horrendous. If the cap does grow to 130 million in a few years, we will be just fine cap wise.
I, for one, am quite glad that we seemingly are going to settle this quickly. He’s a good SF, great teammate, and a hard worker. Most importantly, he is in his mid 20s (and no that is not old) and he will be ours during his best years. He will be the 4th option maybe 5th and you can do a whole lot worse than Barnes as your 4th or 5th option.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
Clearly an overpay, but it was always going to be necessary. I was hoping we'd get him for about 18 mil per year, which is still an overpay based on his production, but would be a more reasonable one.
I'm not convinced Barnes is a needle mover, but he's at least a solid SF and a great teammate, and also the right age. I know it's blasphemy around here at the moment to even suggest anything negative, but that's the truth. Barnes would not be getting 22 mil per year anywhere else. As a Kings fan, we have to live with it if we want to sign anyone decent.
I'm not convinced Barnes is a needle mover, but he's at least a solid SF and a great teammate, and also the right age. I know it's blasphemy around here at the moment to even suggest anything negative, but that's the truth. Barnes would not be getting 22 mil per year anywhere else. As a Kings fan, we have to live with it if we want to sign anyone decent.
The Warriors play in the Bay Area for one thing, but even without that key difference its taken 10 years of horrible basketball for us to barely be competitive and now we have another new head coach. If we're in the verge of Warriors 2.0 level success it"s going to take a few years to get there and by then the Barnes contract will be a non - issue because it'll become an expiring contract in 3 years. I don't see free agents flocking to the Kings unless they win multiple titles and look like the best team in the league. And until that happens we need the best caliber of player we can reasonably obtain right now to put us there.
There is an alternative though, which is to sign or draft young players who are not currently coveted free agents and develop them into stars. That's not going to be Barnes either but he's also not preventing us from signing anybody in that tier. Best-case scenario here is we find a young guy who gets so good that he pushes Barnes to the bench and suddenly we have too much talent at the SF position. That also takes time though. At this current date I think we just have to accept the reality that Barnes is probably the best we can do at the position right now, whatever the cost.
Heuge
Starter
This is an embarrassing response. Just because someone doesn't agree with you does not mean they are not watching what you are watching. Grow up!
You see an average player, great. Many others see a player that helps move the needle for this team, even if a little, to the next level.
Are power forwards listed there too? I'm not sure how accurate this list is but it would land him 8th.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/rankings/cap-hit/small-forward/
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