Harrison Barnes is opting out

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Hall of Famer
If he re-signs with the Kings, I have to assume he will be getting overpaid. If you look at it from Barnes perspective he really doesn't have much connection to the organization aside from playing half a season here. The coach he played for has been fired and the current coach is facing pretty serious accusations.

I have mixed feelings about signing him. He plays good defense, is a full sized Sf and can hit the three. On the other hand, he doesn't move the needle enough on a team to be paid 20 mil a year.
Guys like Batum, Parsons, Anderson. All getting over 20. Barnes is about right.
 
If he re-signs with the Kings, I have to assume he will be getting overpaid. If you look at it from Barnes perspective he really doesn't have much connection to the organization aside from playing half a season here. The coach he played for has been fired and the current coach is facing pretty serious accusations.

I have mixed feelings about signing him. He plays good defense, is a full sized Sf and can hit the three. On the other hand, he doesn't move the needle enough on a team to be paid 20 mil a year.
All well and good but fact is, Kings always have to overpay. Lets wait and see what the deal is before we raise the overpaid flag.

As for links, played here for a few game and got along well with team mates. The owner was a minority owner on the Warriors and is a known Barnes fan. The current head coach he has played for in Oakland and with the accusations, let the investigation take its place before going there.

He has more connection to this team than to any other team out there not named Mavs or Warriors.
 

Entity

Hall of Famer
It’s not a mentality if it’s true. We all know game-changers don’t willingly come to Sacramento. They get drafted or traded here, then fall in love. When was the last game-changer who chose to come here?

We shoot for the stars, miss with everyone, then also lose Barnes we’re in deeeeeeeeep trouble.

Not worth the risk.
Our best FA signings by name. 30 year old Vlade Divac and 40 year old Vince Carter. Hey we might could get Carmelo now
 
Hopefully Barnes at the 4 died the second Joerger got the axe. Still one of the more stupid and confusing things I’ve seen recently.
It died with him having the axe. Barnes at the 4 was completely used in the most disastrous way possible. I'm figuring his use of the small ball team was one of the reasons he got the boot. He goes small? He's posts Barnes up more and more. That was stupid. Barnes playing the 4 should be a mismatch that works very well for your team. Just like the Warriors.
 
If he re-signs with the Kings, I have to assume he will be getting overpaid. If you look at it from Barnes perspective he really doesn't have much connection to the organization aside from playing half a season here. The coach he played for has been fired and the current coach is facing pretty serious accusations.

I have mixed feelings about signing him. He plays good defense, is a full sized Sf and can hit the three. On the other hand, he doesn't move the needle enough on a team to be paid 20 mil a year.
Why do you care if he is over paid if Vivek will pay the tax later?
 
I haven't been on here in a while but after seeing the news...well damn!

Did we trade away Justin Jackson for an expensive rental that we just lost?

I'm not like crying over J Jax or anything but I didn't think Barnes would opt out. Maybe we re-sign him. At what cost? I don't know but certainly wouldn't be open to paying him close to what he made last year.
What? I would still take that trade any day of the week even given the outcome
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
Not a fan of Barnes. He's very average. Hood and Oubre could probably do the same things at half the cost.
The only reason he's overrated in Sac? Team has not had a decent SF since Gay.

Let's see what his real value is across the league. He's opted out. I am yet to read that first news flash that says a team in the league is going to pay him 20 mil a year. Get back to me, when that happens.
Well that's a shocker
 
You never know.. A ton of players have done this.. Sign the MLE after turning down a 1 year deal for a lot of money in order to get paid the following year (after being in a situation where he could put up a ton of points). With us he was the 3rd/4th option.
The "3rd or 4th option" card is overplayed, especially in the NBA of today, and even more especially on the Kings who play run and gun basketball. This isn't exactly a team that slows down the ball and goes through it's options on a given play. I recall Barnes being one of our bail-out guys toward the end of the shot clock.
 
$4/80 type of deal to Barnes is exactly how bad teams get in trouble. I didn't mind the $25 AAV next year because it wouldn't affect us long-term. But you're making a serious commitment to a guy over 4 years that limits your flexibility going forward for a player whose slightly above average.
I'm no expert on what guys are making these days but $20mil just seems excessive for a guy like Barnes who is just a tick over average as a roleplayer.
I had the same exact sentiments before another poster pointed out to me.. where else are we going to find a SF? The list of guys includes: Kawhi, Middleton, Butler, Harris, Bojan, Gay, Oubre, and Ariza. You can cross out all of those names except Bojan and Oubre.
  • Bojan: 30 years old. Pros: 3pt shooting, scoring ability, high iq, and off-ball play. Cons: defense and rebounding
    • Cost: 16mpy-20mpy
  • Oubre: 24 years old. Pros: shot creating/scoring ability, athleticism, and defensive potential. Cons: inconsistent shooter, questionable IQ, and lack of size and strength.
    • Cost: ~12mpy or under
  • Barnes: 27 years old. Pros: size, 3pt shooting, scoring ability, defensive versatility, and NBA experience. Cons: rebounding and passing.
    • Cost: 18-22mpy
We can't even find a discount version of Harrison Barnes anywhere.. A true SF-sized player with 3&D ability. I'd rather overpay him for 5 million a year than lose him. What else would we do with the cap space this year? Pay a vet like Trevor Ariza or Wilson Chandler $15million for a year just to reach the salary floor? $5million more, and you get Harrison Barnes.

You talk about cap flexibility, but after this year is up, Buddy and Bogdan become RFAs. So you don't have much cap flexibility onward. If anything, this is the year the Kings need to pitch their asses off at free agents. This is one of the best FA classes we've seen in a long time.
 
I had the same exact sentiments before another poster pointed out to me.. where else are we going to find a SF? The list of guys includes: Kawhi, Middleton, Butler, Harris, Bojan, Gay, Oubre, and Ariza. You can cross out all of those names except Bojan and Oubre.
  • Bojan: 30 years old. Pros: 3pt shooting, scoring ability, high iq, and off-ball play. Cons: defense and rebounding
    • Cost: 16mpy-20mpy
  • Oubre: 24 years old. Pros: shot creating/scoring ability, athleticism, and defensive potential. Cons: inconsistent shooter, questionable IQ, and lack of size and strength.
    • Cost: ~12mpy or under
  • Barnes: 27 years old. Pros: size, 3pt shooting, scoring ability, defensive versatility, and NBA experience. Cons: rebounding and passing.
    • Cost: 18-22mpy
We can't even find a discount version of Harrison Barnes anywhere.. A true SF-sized player with 3&D ability. I'd rather overpay him for 5 million a year than lose him. What else would we do with the cap space this year? Pay a vet like Trevor Ariza or Wilson Chandler $15million for a year just to reach the salary floor? $5million more, and you get Harrison Barnes.

You talk about cap flexibility, but after this year is up, Buddy and Bogdan become RFAs. So you don't have much cap flexibility onward. If anything, this is the year the Kings need to pitch their asses off at free agents. This is one of the best FA classes we've seen in a long time.
Lookibg at your list of replacements for Barnes, I think you’re missing the “best” one...

Al Farouq-Aminu

The blazers are in a difficult spot cap wise. If they resign Aminu without making any other moves, they will be paying tax.

Aminu is more limited than Barnes but he is a guy that plays his role very, very well. His shooting is not as good but still respectable. However, he’s a better defender and rebounder. Not to mention he’s taller and longer (7’3.25” wingspan and a 9’0.5” standing reach) so he would give us a true SF/PF flex player whereas Barnes is a little on the shorter side for a SF/PF flex (8’6” standing reach).

He’ll be turning 29 though so is he really part of the long term plan? However, he’s a guy that would be a great fit, improve the defense/rebounding, and come cheaper.

The cap holds for Bogdan and Hield are like $12 mil and $14 mil. We can have plenty of cap space next offseason if we want to “roll it over” to next season. There’s guys like Prince, Osman, Ingram, and potential Porter (with Horford and Barnes opting out, I’m not going to pretend like it can’t happen).
 
I feel dirty saying it, but if Barnes is asking for too much or other teams are offering him more than we want to pay, perhaps we explore a trade with Minnesota that includes Wiggins...:confused:

Wiggins, Covington, & #11
for
Pure cap space

It gives the Wolves a chance to retool around Towns. If they let Jones walk, they could even offer Russell (Towns' really good friend) a max contract. Teague & Dieng come off the books over the next couple of years and they may be able to add another star to Russell & Towns.

Covington is a cheaper, better (but older) replacement for Barnes. #11 allows us to add another solid prospect to develop with our core long term. Wiggins is a huge pill to swallow but somewhat manageable with all of our rookie contracts. Perhaps he can find an effective role off the bench in our fast paced system. We also would still have $19.2 mil in cap space if we let Cauley-Stein walk. We could offer Horford a 3+1 deal worth a total of $86.7 mil (first year would be $19.2 mil and each year after would have a 8% raise).

PG - Fox / Ferrell / Mason
SG - Hield / Bogdanovic
SF - Covington / Wiggins
PF - Bagley / Bjelica / Swanigan
C - Horford / Giles
#11, #40, #47, & #60
 
I had the same exact sentiments before another poster pointed out to me.. where else are we going to find a SF? The list of guys includes: Kawhi, Middleton, Butler, Harris, Bojan, Gay, Oubre, and Ariza. You can cross out all of those names except Bojan and Oubre.
  • Bojan: 30 years old. Pros: 3pt shooting, scoring ability, high iq, and off-ball play. Cons: defense and rebounding
    • Cost: 16mpy-20mpy
  • Oubre: 24 years old. Pros: shot creating/scoring ability, athleticism, and defensive potential. Cons: inconsistent shooter, questionable IQ, and lack of size and strength.
    • Cost: ~12mpy or under
  • Barnes: 27 years old. Pros: size, 3pt shooting, scoring ability, defensive versatility, and NBA experience. Cons: rebounding and passing.
    • Cost: 18-22mpy
We can't even find a discount version of Harrison Barnes anywhere.. A true SF-sized player with 3&D ability. I'd rather overpay him for 5 million a year than lose him. What else would we do with the cap space this year? Pay a vet like Trevor Ariza or Wilson Chandler $15million for a year just to reach the salary floor? $5million more, and you get Harrison Barnes.

You talk about cap flexibility, but after this year is up, Buddy and Bogdan become RFAs. So you don't have much cap flexibility onward. If anything, this is the year the Kings need to pitch their asses off at free agents. This is one of the best FA classes we've seen in a long time.
I'd rather have Aminu honestly.

Look at how the Blazers are constructed

Lillard
McCollum
Harkless
Aminu
Nurkic

Fox and Hield are our Lillard and McCollum. Fox has a ways to go obviously but Hield was better than CJ last year. Surround these guys with some 3&D defenders and a quality big man and they can make the playoffs. The team needs an identity change if they want to compete in the west. If you get too many guys that require the basketball in their hands to be effective, then you have a redundancy of skills that are wasted on the majority of plays. You get to the other end of the floor and now you have a bunch of scorers trying to defend and you wind up with a 27th place defense. There's never a redundancy of defenders because everyone has to defend every time down the court. Barnes is just an average defender at best and his offense will just be marginally used.

Do you really want to throw 20mil at a player who plays average defense and who's offense will be stuck in his back pocket on most plays since Fox, Hield and Bagley will be doing most the scoring?
 
I'd rather have Aminu honestly.

Look at how the Blazers are constructed

Lillard
McCollum
Harkless
Aminu
Nurkic

Fox and Hield are our Lillard and McCollum. Fox has a ways to go obviously but Hield was better than CJ last year. Surround these guys with some 3&D defenders and a quality big man and they can make the playoffs. The team needs an identity change if they want to compete in the west. If you get too many guys that require the basketball in their hands to be effective, then you have a redundancy of skills that are wasted on the majority of plays. You get to the other end of the floor and now you have a bunch of scorers trying to defend and you wind up with a 27th place defense. There's never a redundancy of defenders because everyone has to defend every time down the court. Barnes is just an average defender at best and his offense will just be marginally used.

Do you really want to throw 20mil at a player who plays average defense and who's offense will be stuck in his back pocket on most plays since Fox, Hield and Bagley will be doing most the scoring?
Your whole discussion hinges on Barnes as an average defender but Barnes is not an average defender.
 
Who do you think we can get bird rights to and go over the cap to retain with our youth later?

Or you talking grab assets now for bad salary?

I’d be open to an asset grab or simply signing 2 or 3 depth level players as I really believe in our core guys.

It’s not that I don’t want Barnes back. I’ve always rooted for him as he grew up close to my hometown and he is a really good player. I guess we will see soon enough.
 
https://stats.nba.com/player/203084/defense-dash/

According to advanced stats Harrison Barnes is average:

He allows 35 percent from 3
53 percent from 2
67 percent less from 6 ft
61 percent less than 10 ft

NBA.com/Stats Logo Advanced Stats
Insights From SAP
Harrison Barnes
#40
Harrison
Barnes
F SACRAMENTO KINGS
Compare Player
PTS
16.4
REB
4.7
AST
1.5
PIE
8.8
HT
6-8
WT
225 lbs
AGE
27 20d
BORN
05/30/1992
PRIOR
North Carolina/USA
DRAFT
2012 Rnd 1 Pick 7
Tracking

Defense Dashboard

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DEFENSE CATEGORYGPGDFGMDFGADFG%FREQFG%DIFF%
Overall77775.110.847.1100%47.00.0
3 Pointers77761.64.336.739.5%35.61.0
2 Pointers77753.56.653.960.5%53.50.3
Less Than 6 Ft77742.23.367.630.3%63.73.9
Less Than 10 Ft77752.64.361.140.0%58.52.6
Greater Than 15 Ft77772.05.635.551.3%36.9-1.4
DEFENSE CATEGORY
Overall
3 Pointers
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Less Than 6 Ft
Less Than 10 Ft
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Your whole discussion hinges on Barnes as an average defender but Barnes is not an average defender.
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/DRPM/position/5

He's the 46th ranked SF defender for espn's rpm stat. There's a handful of players in front of him that didn't play much so he's really about 15 spots higher than that.

Defensive box plus/minus has him ranked 101 of 107 of all guards and forwards. He's obviously not that bad but you mix his defensive stats with the eye test and he's average at best. More than likely below average but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.