Entity
Hall of Famer
Guys like Batum, Parsons, Anderson. All getting over 20. Barnes is about right.
Harrison Barnes is opting out
- Thread starter iowamcnabb
- Start date
Entity
Hall of Famer
After 34 years it’s no longer a mentality. It’s now a fact.
ParniValjak
All-Star
All well and good but fact is, Kings always have to overpay. Lets wait and see what the deal is before we raise the overpaid flag.
As for links, played here for a few game and got along well with team mates. The owner was a minority owner on the Warriors and is a known Barnes fan. The current head coach he has played for in Oakland and with the accusations, let the investigation take its place before going there.
He has more connection to this team than to any other team out there not named Mavs or Warriors.
Entity
Hall of Famer
Our best FA signings by name. 30 year old Vlade Divac and 40 year old Vince Carter. Hey we might could get Carmelo now
ParniValjak
All-Star
Rajon Rondo DISLIKES this!
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
It died with him having the axe. Barnes at the 4 was completely used in the most disastrous way possible. I'm figuring his use of the small ball team was one of the reasons he got the boot. He goes small? He's posts Barnes up more and more. That was stupid. Barnes playing the 4 should be a mismatch that works very well for your team. Just like the Warriors.
Entity
Hall of Famer
Forgot about him. He is so old he was drafted 3 years after our coach and 1 year after Francisco Garcia. 2 years after Kevin MartinRajon Rondo DISLIKES this!
Entity
Hall of Famer
Actually looking like Horford could be a possibility. He is 33. But he wants like 4 years $100 milRajon Rondo DISLIKES this!
Iced Espresso
Starter
If it all works out....
Fox
Bagley
Buddy
Will be the horsepower
Vivek pays the tax, and in a few years we resign Barnes once again and have a 4 horsepower legit powerhouse.
Iced Espresso
Starter
Why do you care if he is over paid if Vivek will pay the tax later?
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
If the team is overpaying, I prefer it to be for a player that has a greater impact on winning.
Iced Espresso
Starter
Who do you think we can get bird rights to and go over the cap to retain with our youth later?
Or you talking grab assets now for bad salary?
AleksandarN
Starter
What? I would still take that trade any day of the week even given the outcome
AleksandarN
Starter
Hell no to Drummond
AleksandarN
Starter
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Well that's a shocker
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Seems like the only bags he's packing...
*puts on shades*
are bags of cash.
*Cue CSI music*
Chupacabra
Starter
The "3rd or 4th option" card is overplayed, especially in the NBA of today, and even more especially on the Kings who play run and gun basketball. This isn't exactly a team that slows down the ball and goes through it's options on a given play. I recall Barnes being one of our bail-out guys toward the end of the shot clock.
Noble
Bench
You keep thinking that
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
Bobby Jackson and Scot Pollard were pretty ok too.
If you told me 10 years ago that Carmelo would finish his career in Sacramento, I would've been ecstatic. Come on Vlade, it's not too late!
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
You're literally factually wrong here.
I had the same exact sentiments before another poster pointed out to me.. where else are we going to find a SF? The list of guys includes: Kawhi, Middleton, Butler, Harris, Bojan, Gay, Oubre, and Ariza. You can cross out all of those names except Bojan and Oubre.
- Bojan: 30 years old. Pros: 3pt shooting, scoring ability, high iq, and off-ball play. Cons: defense and rebounding
- Cost: 16mpy-20mpy
- Oubre: 24 years old. Pros: shot creating/scoring ability, athleticism, and defensive potential. Cons: inconsistent shooter, questionable IQ, and lack of size and strength.
- Cost: ~12mpy or under
- Barnes: 27 years old. Pros: size, 3pt shooting, scoring ability, defensive versatility, and NBA experience. Cons: rebounding and passing.
- Cost: 18-22mpy
You talk about cap flexibility, but after this year is up, Buddy and Bogdan become RFAs. So you don't have much cap flexibility onward. If anything, this is the year the Kings need to pitch their asses off at free agents. This is one of the best FA classes we've seen in a long time.
twslam07
All-Star
Lookibg at your list of replacements for Barnes, I think you’re missing the “best” one...
Al Farouq-Aminu
The blazers are in a difficult spot cap wise. If they resign Aminu without making any other moves, they will be paying tax.
Aminu is more limited than Barnes but he is a guy that plays his role very, very well. His shooting is not as good but still respectable. However, he’s a better defender and rebounder. Not to mention he’s taller and longer (7’3.25” wingspan and a 9’0.5” standing reach) so he would give us a true SF/PF flex player whereas Barnes is a little on the shorter side for a SF/PF flex (8’6” standing reach).
He’ll be turning 29 though so is he really part of the long term plan? However, he’s a guy that would be a great fit, improve the defense/rebounding, and come cheaper.
The cap holds for Bogdan and Hield are like $12 mil and $14 mil. We can have plenty of cap space next offseason if we want to “roll it over” to next season. There’s guys like Prince, Osman, Ingram, and potential Porter (with Horford and Barnes opting out, I’m not going to pretend like it can’t happen).
twslam07
All-Star
I feel dirty saying it, but if Barnes is asking for too much or other teams are offering him more than we want to pay, perhaps we explore a trade with Minnesota that includes Wiggins...
Wiggins, Covington, & #11
for
Pure cap space
It gives the Wolves a chance to retool around Towns. If they let Jones walk, they could even offer Russell (Towns' really good friend) a max contract. Teague & Dieng come off the books over the next couple of years and they may be able to add another star to Russell & Towns.
Covington is a cheaper, better (but older) replacement for Barnes. #11 allows us to add another solid prospect to develop with our core long term. Wiggins is a huge pill to swallow but somewhat manageable with all of our rookie contracts. Perhaps he can find an effective role off the bench in our fast paced system. We also would still have $19.2 mil in cap space if we let Cauley-Stein walk. We could offer Horford a 3+1 deal worth a total of $86.7 mil (first year would be $19.2 mil and each year after would have a 8% raise).
PG - Fox / Ferrell / Mason
SG - Hield / Bogdanovic
SF - Covington / Wiggins
PF - Bagley / Bjelica / Swanigan
C - Horford / Giles
#11, #40, #47, & #60
Wiggins, Covington, & #11
for
Pure cap space
It gives the Wolves a chance to retool around Towns. If they let Jones walk, they could even offer Russell (Towns' really good friend) a max contract. Teague & Dieng come off the books over the next couple of years and they may be able to add another star to Russell & Towns.
Covington is a cheaper, better (but older) replacement for Barnes. #11 allows us to add another solid prospect to develop with our core long term. Wiggins is a huge pill to swallow but somewhat manageable with all of our rookie contracts. Perhaps he can find an effective role off the bench in our fast paced system. We also would still have $19.2 mil in cap space if we let Cauley-Stein walk. We could offer Horford a 3+1 deal worth a total of $86.7 mil (first year would be $19.2 mil and each year after would have a 8% raise).
PG - Fox / Ferrell / Mason
SG - Hield / Bogdanovic
SF - Covington / Wiggins
PF - Bagley / Bjelica / Swanigan
C - Horford / Giles
#11, #40, #47, & #60
I'd rather have Aminu honestly.
Look at how the Blazers are constructed
Lillard
McCollum
Harkless
Aminu
Nurkic
Fox and Hield are our Lillard and McCollum. Fox has a ways to go obviously but Hield was better than CJ last year. Surround these guys with some 3&D defenders and a quality big man and they can make the playoffs. The team needs an identity change if they want to compete in the west. If you get too many guys that require the basketball in their hands to be effective, then you have a redundancy of skills that are wasted on the majority of plays. You get to the other end of the floor and now you have a bunch of scorers trying to defend and you wind up with a 27th place defense. There's never a redundancy of defenders because everyone has to defend every time down the court. Barnes is just an average defender at best and his offense will just be marginally used.
Do you really want to throw 20mil at a player who plays average defense and who's offense will be stuck in his back pocket on most plays since Fox, Hield and Bagley will be doing most the scoring?
Heuge
Starter
Your whole discussion hinges on Barnes as an average defender but Barnes is not an average defender.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I’d be open to an asset grab or simply signing 2 or 3 depth level players as I really believe in our core guys.
It’s not that I don’t want Barnes back. I’ve always rooted for him as he grew up close to my hometown and he is a really good player. I guess we will see soon enough.
KingsSelecao
Bench
https://stats.nba.com/player/203084/defense-dash/
According to advanced stats Harrison Barnes is average:
He allows 35 percent from 3
53 percent from 2
67 percent less from 6 ft
61 percent less than 10 ft
NBA.com/Stats Logo Advanced Stats
Insights From SAP
Harrison Barnes
#40
Harrison
Barnes
F SACRAMENTO KINGS
Compare Player
PTS
16.4
REB
4.7
AST
1.5
PIE
8.8
HT
6-8
WT
225 lbs
AGE
27 20d
BORN
05/30/1992
PRIOR
North Carolina/USA
DRAFT
2012 Rnd 1 Pick 7
Tracking
Defense Dashboard
SEASON
SEASON TYPE
PER MODE
SEASON SEGMENT
Advanced Filters
RECENT FILTERS GLOSSARY SHARE
Player Tracking is not available for all games, please see the Tracking Status page for a game's availability.
DEFENSE CATEGORYGPGDFGMDFGADFG%FREQFG%DIFF%
Overall77775.110.847.1100%47.00.0
3 Pointers77761.64.336.739.5%35.61.0
2 Pointers77753.56.653.960.5%53.50.3
Less Than 6 Ft77742.23.367.630.3%63.73.9
Less Than 10 Ft77752.64.361.140.0%58.52.6
Greater Than 15 Ft77772.05.635.551.3%36.9-1.4
DEFENSE CATEGORY
Overall
3 Pointers
2 Pointers
Less Than 6 Ft
Less Than 10 Ft
Greater Than 15 Ft
According to advanced stats Harrison Barnes is average:
He allows 35 percent from 3
53 percent from 2
67 percent less from 6 ft
61 percent less than 10 ft
NBA.com/Stats Logo Advanced Stats
Insights From SAP
Harrison Barnes
#40
Harrison
Barnes
F SACRAMENTO KINGS
Compare Player
PTS
16.4
REB
4.7
AST
1.5
PIE
8.8
HT
6-8
WT
225 lbs
AGE
27 20d
BORN
05/30/1992
PRIOR
North Carolina/USA
DRAFT
2012 Rnd 1 Pick 7
Tracking
Defense Dashboard
SEASON
SEASON TYPE
PER MODE
SEASON SEGMENT
Advanced Filters
RECENT FILTERS GLOSSARY SHARE
Player Tracking is not available for all games, please see the Tracking Status page for a game's availability.
DEFENSE CATEGORYGPGDFGMDFGADFG%FREQFG%DIFF%
Overall77775.110.847.1100%47.00.0
3 Pointers77761.64.336.739.5%35.61.0
2 Pointers77753.56.653.960.5%53.50.3
Less Than 6 Ft77742.23.367.630.3%63.73.9
Less Than 10 Ft77752.64.361.140.0%58.52.6
Greater Than 15 Ft77772.05.635.551.3%36.9-1.4
DEFENSE CATEGORY
Overall
3 Pointers
2 Pointers
Less Than 6 Ft
Less Than 10 Ft
Greater Than 15 Ft
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/DRPM/position/5
He's the 46th ranked SF defender for espn's rpm stat. There's a handful of players in front of him that didn't play much so he's really about 15 spots higher than that.
Defensive box plus/minus has him ranked 101 of 107 of all guards and forwards. He's obviously not that bad but you mix his defensive stats with the eye test and he's average at best. More than likely below average but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
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