Greg Monro with the 5th pick

[DoDiGaG0]

Well if Petrie takes Monroe over Cousins do we still have the faith in him?

no, I(along with 50% of the board) lost our faith in Petrie when he drafted Evans over Rubio

 

[King-Da-Yah]

no, I(along with 50% of the board) lost our faith in Petrie when he drafted Evans over Rubio

No way, you would rather have Rubio??? His mother cuts his steak FOR him for crying out loud

 

[The Hammer]

no, I(along with 50% of the board) lost our faith in Petrie when he drafted Evans over Rubio

That statement is not even close to correct. And if you or anyone "lost faith" in Petrie becuase he chose Evans over Rubio.... I don't believe that you actually know what you are saying and have to assume that there is some kind of language or translation problem. That is my position.

 

[Megalodon]

I may actually be the one misinterpreting his post, but I think he meant people have knee-jerk reactions. I believe he was saying that when a GM chooses a player widely considered good from the fans, and media, they are quick to point out his 'mistake'.

As in I wasn't around this message board last year I wouldn't know how the draft affected peoples feelings toward Geoff at the time, but almost all are now on board with the Evans pick, if they weren't already.

So if he picks Monroe ... or most any other player when Cousins is still on the board, people will go ballistic, ( possibly me as well ), but it doesn't necessarily mean we won't come around and realize that the pick he made was in the best interest of the team, despite many differences of opinion.

 

[DoDiGaG0]

That statement is not even close to correct. And if you or anyone "lost faith" in Petrie becuase he chose Evans over Rubio.... I don't believe that you actually know what you are saying and have to assume that there is some kind of language or translation problem. That is my position.

I was being sarcastic lol

point being "we doubted his judgment before and ended up eating crow"

 

[DoDiGaG0]

I may actually be the one misinterpreting his post, but I think he meant people have knee-jerk reactions.I believe he was saying that when a GM chooses a player widely considered good from the fans, and media, they are quick to point out his 'mistake'.

As in I wasn't around this message board last year I wouldn't know how the draft affected peoples feelings toward Geoff at the time, but almost all are now on board with the Evans pick, if they weren't already.

So if he picks Monroe ... or most any other player when Cousins is still on the board, people will go ballistic, ( possibly me as well ), but it doesn't necessarily mean we won't come around and realize that the pick he made was in the best interest of the team, despite many differences of opinion.

^^ QFT

there were a lot of people flicking out and calling for Petrie's head at the time (myself included)

 

[Megalodon]

I was being sarcastic lol

point being "we doubted his judgment before and ended up eating crow"

LOL ... way to make my post irrelevant


EDIT : Obviously I am not upset with you posting your being sarcastic, I just typed that out and it took a second, and found it a little amusing that you posted right after, thus the little winking smiley


P.S. Is it just me or do I use entirely too many commas ? I think I need to go back to school and take a grammar class.

 

[Megalodon]

Damn your a ninja

 

[DoDiGaG0]

LOL ... way to make my post irrelevant

sorry replied before I read your post

your assessment is 100% correct btw

 

[The Hammer]

I was being sarcastic lol

point being "we doubted his judgment before and ended up eating crow"

That is a relief to hear.

 

[King-Da-Yah]

That is a relief to hear.

I was about to revoke my friend request to him on facebook!

 

[TaxMan]

I don't care if Monroe wins ROY with another team to be honest. At this point Cousins would make much more sense than Monroe. If we take Cousins, and in 5 years time Monroe is twice the player Cousins is, I'm not gonna be mad because I'll know that Geoff went with the better pick

Let me try to follow your logic here. If Petrie determines Monroe is the best prospect and Monroe ends up winnign ROY, you'd still prefer for him to pick Cousins because you think he's a better choice? So if Petrie (who clearly will have more time and information to evaluate the pick that you) determines Cousins is not the best choice and is ultimately proven correct with the pick, you'd still be upset? Talk about stubborn.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not crazy about Monroe and I will be dissapointed if he is selected, but I think we need to be a little more open minded in the long term.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Let me try to follow your logic here. If Petrie determines Monroe is the best prospect and Monroe ends up winnign ROY, you'd still prefer for him to pick Cousins because you think he's a better choice? So if Petrie (who clearly will have more time and information to evaluate the pick that you) determines Cousins is not the best choice and is ultimately proven correct with the pick, you'd still be upset? Talk about stubborn.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not crazy about Monroe and I will be dissapointed if he is selected, but I think we need to be a little more open minded in the long term.

ROY is just an award, and it only considers who had the best rookie year, nothing beyond that.

 

[SacKings7]

Let me try to follow your logic here. If Petrie determines Monroe is the best prospect and Monroe ends up winnign ROY, you'd still prefer for him to pick Cousins because you think he's a better choice? So if Petrie (who clearly will have more time and information to evaluate the pick that you) determines Cousins is not the best choice and is ultimately proven correct with the pick, you'd still be upset? Talk about stubborn.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not crazy about Monroe and I will be dissapointed if he is selected, but I think we need to be a little more open minded in the long term.

The ROY means nothing. It's nice to win, but it's hardly indicative of a players effect on the defensive end, and sometimes the ROY winner doesn't turn out to be the best player to come out of that years draft. Cousins is the best fit for this team in the long run.

Monroe is certainly skilled, but I for one want to move on from the finesse passing big men who get pushed around on defense era. I'd like us to be the one doing the pushing for a change

 

[fnordius]

If we take Cousins, and in 5 years time Monroe is twice the player Cousins is, I'm not gonna be mad

But that's not just some silly award.

 

[SacKings7]

But that's not just some silly award.

I'd be upset that Cousins didn't pan out, yes, but just knowing Petrie made the pick that everyone wanted him to make would be alright with me. That, and like I said in my last post, I'd rather we move past this softie passing big man type and get tough

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I'd be upset that Cousins didn't pan out, yes, but just knowing Petrie made the pick that everyone wanted him to make would be alright with me.

GM by public poll may not exactly be the best way to run a team. I can't say for certain, because I'm not sure anybody's ever tried it. What I can say is this: everything I've ever read suggests that Petrie relies fairly heavily on his scouting/personnel teams when making his selections. I would prefer that the scope of those teams not extend to amateurs on message boards, and I say this as an amateur on a message board.

 

[kennadog]

If Petrie picks who most of the fans want, it won't be for that reason.

 

[SacKings7]

]GM by public poll may not exactly be the best way to run a team. [/B] I can't say for certain, because I'm not sure anybody's ever tried it. What I can say is this: everything I've ever read suggests that Petrie relies fairly heavily on his scouting/personnel teams when making his selections. I would prefer that the scope of those teams not extend to amateurs on message boards, and I say this as an amateur on a message board.

Yeah, that's not really what I meant though. I want Cousins, not Monroe. If Petrie chooses Cousins and he's a bust, but Monroe is a servicable big man, I won't be mad because he picked who I wanted him to pick

 

[TaxMan]

Yeah, that's not really what I meant though. I want Cousins, not Monroe. If Petrie chooses Cousins and he's a bust, but Monroe is a servicable big man, I won't be mad because he picked who I wanted him to pick

You want him to swing for the fences...and I understand that stance. I just find it kind of funny (and a little unbelieveable) to think people will just shrug their shoulders in 5 years if we passed on a superstar (as your original post suggested).

 

[bajaden]

Physically, Monroe has great size for a PF, with a fairly large wingspan and reasonable, but not great, strength. But he's sorely lacking in mobility/athletic components physically--he's lacking in lateral quickness, overall speed, and especially in leaping ability for a PF, and moreover his conditioning is quite questionable especially with his body fat percentage. But whereas these indicators might indicate that he's a bust, I'm going the other way--I think he has a really high defensive IQ. His defensive impact is palpable, as Georgetown was significantly better defensively with him on the court, and that's in large part due to his great timing: Monroe possesses elite stealing ability and above average shotblocking ability for a center, and is reasonable at controlling his fouls. Certainly he's more of a length athlete than a freak athlete in this respect, and it might be an open question whether his defensive instincts and timing can trump his lack of mobility/athleticism at the NBA level. I do think Monroe might be a tweener defensively initially (not athletic enough against the mobile PFs, not quite strong/large enough against conventional Cs) but like Clifford Robinson, he might develop into a disciplined defender over time, which can be an asset. He's more of a 1990s defender than a 2000s one, that's for sure.

Monroe's offensive impact is merely middling, but he's probably an average offensive player at the NBA level, at best. He shows tertiary-offensive player instincts out on the court with his above average possession rate, but his seriously impeded by what I think is a lack of tricks to score off his own devices at the NBA level. Primarily, he doesn't have a terribly reliable jumpshooting game: he doesn't take too many mid-range J's, and shoots poorly at the ones he takes; there might be slight hope, however, given that he shoots 68% on his free throws. Monroe is largely your conventional post-up player type, as he takes tons of inside shots, but he doesn't finish well here at all, as he's impeded by some lack of refinement as well as the mobility/athleticism issues: he does get to the line at an above average rate, however. Finally, not surprising given his physical tools, he's sorely lacking in athletic markers offensively, not dunking at a prolific rate and garnering very few tip-ins. Monroe's real best asset offensively is his passing game: he's an elite passer for a PF for sure, with court vision, but his ballhandling skills are questionable as he does have turnover problems: anyway, if his offensive game doesn't improve for the NBA, his passing ability won't be an asset whatsoever.

Rebounding-wise, Monroe is middling, but he's a decent defensive rebounder and a poor offensive one.

Overall, I know where those potential "bust" labels of Monroe are coming from, and I also have more than a few reservations: he's really more of a 1990s center than a 2000s one, frankly. Moreover, he's severely impeded by two primary markers, his lack of athleticism/mobility and his lack of jumpshooting ability. Offensively is where, to me, he might actually face the most trouble: there's a chance he might not even succeed much at this level, between his poor jumpshooting and inability to finish his post moves, which would not tap into his elite passing skills. Defensively it's also a slight question mark, as he's not athletic/quick for PFs and not tall enough for certain Cs, but he might succeed here given what I believe are very good defensive instincts. He'll probably have to make his mark defensively in the league first, and if he ever develops a jumper or starts becoming more of a post-scoring threat he can really tap into his elite passing skills and have a huge impact. Ultimately, however, it's hard to see the latter happening in the today's run-and-gun NBA, and he'll probably end up as a defensive PF with a slight post game and good passing ability. He just has built-in limitations that might severely hamper him and generate bust potential, and it's probably not worth exploring that option especially with the 5th pick.

The only thing I'm taking to task is your premise that Monroe is an above average shotblocker. Leaving Whiteside and Varnado out of the equation, since both are in a different world when it comes to shotblocking, here's a look at the rest of the lottery guys.

Aldrich: Averages 1 blk every 7.7 minutes

Udoh: Averages 1 blk every 9.5 minutes

Davis: Averages 1 blk every 10.0 minutes

Favors: Averages 1 blk every 13.4 minutes

Cousins: Averages 1 blk every 13.3 minutes

Monroe: Averages 1 blk every 22.3 minutes

Now I'm not sure what the definition of average is? But I'am sure that Monroe is well behind everyone else on this board.

 

[SacKings7]

You want him to swing for the fences...and I understand that stance. I just find it kind of funny (and a little unbelieveable) to think people will just shrug their shoulders in 5 years if we passed on a superstar (as your original post suggested).

Well that's fine, but I was speaking as if Cousins turns out to be a bust, not Monroe turning out to be a superstar. Monroe will not be a superstar, he just doesn't have seem to have the determination. And I will acknowledge that Cousins very well could end up being a bust

 

[ITSCdanimal]

I'd be upset that Cousins didn't pan out, yes, but just knowing Petrie made the pick that everyone wanted him to make would be alright with me. That, and like I said in my last post, I'd rather we move past this softie passing big man type and get tough

Thing is, there is nothing about Cousins' game that is necessarily tough, unless we have a different definition of the word tough. By my definition, a 'tough' player would not have his competetive spirit or work ethic questioned by so many. A 'tough' player would make physical fitness a priority. A 'tough' player wouldn't have coasted thusfar on his size advantage alone.

Don't get me wrong, I'm actually finding myself on board with the Cousins bandwagon, but keep in mind a few things.... shotblocking can be a pretty over-rated statistic. Tyson Chandler, Eric Dampier, Shawn Bradley and Keon Clark were dominant shot blockers over the years, average defenders, and below average basketball players. Players like these were less effective when they played against 'soft' centers like Vlade or Brad Miller, IMHO, who kept them away from the basket.

Also keep in mind that nothing about Cousins game should lead anyone to believe that he'll be a shot blocker at the NBA level. I may be wrong, but his physical tools remind me of Nene, who is a below average shotblocker and rebounder.

Uh, well it doesn't sound like it, but I actually am hoping Cousins falls to the Kings.

 

[Megalodon]

But its not all about blocking shots ... Its altering the shot, forcing the pass, and just contesting every position and staying in front of your man. Just making the other team take lower percentage shots. And Cousins can be the guy that wont get backed down under the hoop by the more physical centers in the league.