At this point in time, yes. Sorry but the hypothetical serviceable backup center isn't on the market very long. Perhaps the last decent one we had a real shot at was Dalembert...
[Grades] Grades v. Warriors 11/02/2013
- Thread starter Bricklayer
- Start date
At this point in time, yes. Sorry but the hypothetical serviceable backup center isn't on the market very long. Perhaps the last decent one we had a real shot at was Dalembert...
We got thoroughly cleaned. Our defense was ineffective from the beginnig and for too long. Couple that with shooting 28% or so and it was out of sight.
It was good to see Mbah a Moute even if for only minutes. Good to see McLemore get some success scoring. Otherwise he made way too many mistakes. Keep on playing him but off the bench. Keep on playing Thornton. He'll get some better and at least he hasn't been "a chucker" so far. Outlaw had a better game and Salmons and PPat are off in their shooting, Salmons way off and PPat way, way off. Good to see a little life in Thompson
Cousins and Vasquez and Thomas were un impressive. Out of our ten man rotation a couple more have to have good games and a couple more average games and a lot less have bad games. Team play so far has been mediocre and worsening. Understandable when nobody is hitting.
This a challenging time for the coaching staff. Hope they are up to it.
It was good to see Mbah a Moute even if for only minutes. Good to see McLemore get some success scoring. Otherwise he made way too many mistakes. Keep on playing him but off the bench. Keep on playing Thornton. He'll get some better and at least he hasn't been "a chucker" so far. Outlaw had a better game and Salmons and PPat are off in their shooting, Salmons way off and PPat way, way off. Good to see a little life in Thompson
Cousins and Vasquez and Thomas were un impressive. Out of our ten man rotation a couple more have to have good games and a couple more average games and a lot less have bad games. Team play so far has been mediocre and worsening. Understandable when nobody is hitting.
This a challenging time for the coaching staff. Hope they are up to it.
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Which is why he should play SG.
DesertFox
Starter
While I don't want to start Ben at SF, he needs to see minutes at the expense of someone. The position is a zero, and the size difference between Ben and John at SF is minimal. And unlike playing Reke at SF (sorry to bring him up), it's not like Ben was using a size advantage at guard.
GV: 30 min
IT: 30 min
MT: 27 min
Ben: 27 min
Salmons/Outlaw/Luc: 30 min
So the team will have 12 min of a IT/GV backcourt, and 18 min of Ben at SF.
Once the team gets a real SF and moves MT, Ben and Salmons can move to the backcourt full-time.
GV: 30
IT: 30
Ben:30
Jimmer/Salmons: 8
GV: 30 min
IT: 30 min
MT: 27 min
Ben: 27 min
Salmons/Outlaw/Luc: 30 min
So the team will have 12 min of a IT/GV backcourt, and 18 min of Ben at SF.
Once the team gets a real SF and moves MT, Ben and Salmons can move to the backcourt full-time.
GV: 30
IT: 30
Ben:30
Jimmer/Salmons: 8
Sure you can go to a 3 guard lineup when in-game matchups allow. You just don't want Ben playing major minutes out of position in a year that's all about developing our core. Our front office got a SF to try and help but he's been injured. If Luc can't contribute, its on them to find someone who can. Don't penalize the rook by playing him against opponents he's less equipped to handle.
HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
The last 2 games have shown me an alarming trend. Not running the offense through Cousins at all in the first half. He had I think 4 FGA in the first half.....
Instead we got Salmons pounding the ball and chucking shots, MT chucking garbage, and our PF jacking 3s and long jumpers.
Instead we got Salmons pounding the ball and chucking shots, MT chucking garbage, and our PF jacking 3s and long jumpers.
DesertFox
Starter
Fair enough, but if you look around the league, the majority of backup 3's are swing players, like Garcia, Vince Carter, etc.
So if Ben backing up the 3 is only when matchups allow, that will be a good portion of games. And it is a short term fix of course until the team gets a real SF.
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
Let's be honest though, that is EXACTLY who these guys are and we knew when we got them. That is what you can expect from them every night.
steelevt
All-Star
sammy was the last defensive "starting" center we had a chance at. we had a chance to resign cole but decided not to, we were in talks with mozgov but i believe we took too long, and diop was waived but we decided to keep n'diaye apparently. also it was mentioned that we had one in robin lopez in the tyreke trade but let him get away. again im not talking about some hypothetical free agent star that will never come here. i've been around here long enough to know sacramento isnt a destination high on the list for free agents that have choices. but there were backup centers out there and my original post implied that this hypothetical big was to be picked up before the season started hence the sarcastic sentence you quoted that stated our genius front office left us in this predicament. we needed a back up center, preferably a defensive minded one. i preferred one with experience, our front office went with n'diaye and here we are. if dmc and jt are starting and they get into foul trouble we are seriously very thin at the C position
I don't give Boogie a pass at all tonight. He downright stunk it up VS Bogut and played exactly into his hands by getting frustrated by him. He also was throwing up junk shots most of the night.
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
Well Jason Collins is still out there...
I've almost suggested that a couple times as I think its a PR move the new ownership group could make. But, Collins is done and really wouldn't bring much in the way of on-court help.
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
That has been my fear as well. But it is a shame to see a respectable big man who might still have 5-10 min a game left in him, no real history of serious injures and great work ethic.
steelevt
All-Star
we really just need someone to play 10-15 mins max to sub in for dmc when he needs a breather or picks up a couple cheap fouls. that way we could keep jt at the pf position. i thought of collins too but didnt bring him up since he might be more of a distraction. but a quick search brought up names like fesenko, petro, przybilla, wilcox, darko, gadzuric, diop. not starters by any means but can backup for a bit and keep jt at his natural position.
btw this will be the last post i will post on this subject since it is kinda taking the thread off track. sorry for threadjacking but i just felt that the whole find a backup center and keep jt/ppat at pf thing could have been fixed before the season started.
Kingfanpaul
Starter
22 points from our starting five is pathetic.
Can't expect to win games if Salmons is only playing 19mpg 
You know what the problem with our SFs is? Other than that they aren't very good I mean. It's that they're out there to be role players, but chuck shots every time they touch the ball. Travis Outlaw ... my goodness that guy doesn't ever pass. Even in garbage time he had Jimmer wide open, but just took it to the rim himself. I'd be pretty annoyed as a team mate ... like wow I finally get 3 minutes to play and the guy who gets consistent minutes and basically sucks every night refuses to give me the ball just so he can pad his stats.
My favourite quote from Warriors announcers - "(Outlaw) is a really good garbage player".
Oh, one day JT is going to give me a seizure. That guy whines to no avail, and in the short season has looked a lot worse than he did last year. Playing out of control again. Heck even Cousins complains less than JT does now!
You know what the problem with our SFs is? Other than that they aren't very good I mean. It's that they're out there to be role players, but chuck shots every time they touch the ball. Travis Outlaw ... my goodness that guy doesn't ever pass. Even in garbage time he had Jimmer wide open, but just took it to the rim himself. I'd be pretty annoyed as a team mate ... like wow I finally get 3 minutes to play and the guy who gets consistent minutes and basically sucks every night refuses to give me the ball just so he can pad his stats.
My favourite quote from Warriors announcers - "(Outlaw) is a really good garbage player".
Oh, one day JT is going to give me a seizure. That guy whines to no avail, and in the short season has looked a lot worse than he did last year. Playing out of control again. Heck even Cousins complains less than JT does now!
DeMoN
Bench
I wouldn't jump ship too much. Back to back against a dominate C, we just had a bad game. I hate the idea of forcing on another prospect, and I think we're fine. I wish Hayes was playing better, than we could give JT more minutes at PF. The last ownership left us in a mess and we'll need sometime, meanwhile we've shown we can compete this season with the big dogs. I dig it.
K
KingMilz
Guest
Hopefully we bounce back against ATL who are on a similar level (probs slightly better) than Denver losing to both the Clippers and Warriors who are elite teams in the NBA is not really all that bad I guess. I still think other than Thomas and Cousins no one else has played well in more than 1 game and hopefully Patterson finds his shooting touch and can chip in 10-12 points, he would help us so much if he was hitting shots.
I think it vital we win most of our games against ATL, Portland x2, Sunsx2, even Memphis (been struggling hard should be 0-3 but were lucky 1-2), Detroit which are all extremely winnable over the next 15 or so games if we want to make a run at a 8th seed.
We been competitive in two games with literally 3 or less players playing well so if we can get 4-5 guys playing ok we should do fine.
I think it vital we win most of our games against ATL, Portland x2, Sunsx2, even Memphis (been struggling hard should be 0-3 but were lucky 1-2), Detroit which are all extremely winnable over the next 15 or so games if we want to make a run at a 8th seed.
We been competitive in two games with literally 3 or less players playing well so if we can get 4-5 guys playing ok we should do fine.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
I'm of course going to write about them later but I think Atlanta is probably worse than Denver. While Horford is (kind of) an All-Star talent, the rest of their front court consists of Paul Millsap, who can score but is also undersized for the 4 spot, and Elton Brand who is pretty much done as a viable NBA player (undersized and slow is not a good combination). I'm fairly certain that the Hawks boast one of the smallest frontcourts in the NBA, with one of those guys playing defense below the league average and another a short old guy who makes Chuck Hayes look like a spry young buck. If there ever was a night for Demarcus to take over, it would be against Atlanta.
K
KingMilz
Guest
Denver when fully healthy is better for sure but imo this Hawks team is better than the Nuggets team we faced, the thing that ATL has is literally every single one of there starters can shoot and has good IQ which could pose us problems and Jeff Teague has been very good this year. But I agree if DMC conquers his battle against shot selection he should have a similar to opening night performance. Our bench should have there way with there's as well.
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rainmaker
Hall of Famer
I can't really watch due to where I am right now but I've been following along with these threads and yes, I agree.
I think a few need to remember it's extremely early in the season. I mean seriously, yes we have roster issues which we've talked about at length but it still takes time to implement and become comfortable in a new system. This may or may not be a team which can challenge for a playoff spot but it's far too early to make these assumptions. New coach, new system, new PG, new sub patterns, new philosophies on both sides of the ball. It'll take longer than a few weeks to really see what we have or don't have here, disregarding roster issues.
I still can't really comment further without watching though.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Golden State appeared to have our number even in preseason. I think Bogut is one of the best matchups for Cousins in the league, both in skill package and bad blood that damages Cousins calm. But more than that, I almost wonder if an advantage I thought we'd have against Golden State in Malone knowing Jackson's system, might in fact be working the opposite way. Jackson and the Warriors know Malone's system, because Malone's system WAS Golden State's system last year. They seem to know everything we do, have an answer for everything except maybe the random IT hot streak, and even there Toney Douglas, WHO WE COMPELTELY ****ED UP IN NOT RESIGNING is a pain in the ass.
Atlanta does not present such problems. Back on our home floor, with rest. They don't have the huge defensive center to cause Boogie problems. That's a big key for us as sans Boogie and IT dominating we looked completely toothless out there.
Atlanta does not present such problems. Back on our home floor, with rest. They don't have the huge defensive center to cause Boogie problems. That's a big key for us as sans Boogie and IT dominating we looked completely toothless out there.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Does anyone have an opinion on Vasquez three games into the season? So far, I have major concern about his defense. He is very slow for a guard. When you combine Thornton, not the fastest guy, with Vasquez, probably the slowest pg starter in the league, they just augment each other's weakness. Both of these guys seem to are often two steps behind their man when plays are run against them.
I imagine he's still rehabbing/learning Malone's system/getting used to his new teammates. Those are a lot of factors to throw at any PG
Can someone explain why Thornton continues to receive star status from the Kings? Said it before, will say it again... the dude is not starting material for the NBA. Take his minutes and do something useful with them. Use them to give McLemore experience or to give Jimmer a shot. Lord knows both of those players have proven they deserve minutes more than Thornton. I don't have a vendetta against the guy, but honestly, it baffles me that he is consistently given top minutes year after year so that he can stand around and be useless for 20-30 minutes every game simply because he *might* go on a random scoring spree, just like any other player can.
K
KingMilz
Guest
He was back to being eMTpty tonight and some of those forces on Thompson make Nick Young's shot selection look like he's Steve Nash
Hadlowe
Starter
Thornton is plenty fast. He has all the athletic skills to be an excellent defender except for being slightly undersized. I am consistently baffled at his lack of ability on the defensive end. This year he seems to be giving better effort (he appears less disinterested in off-ball defensive situations) but he just doesn't make the right decisions.
Hadlowe
Starter
You just described about half of the off-ball players in the league. Unless an offense is focused around getting perimeter shots for certain players, like the one that just whooped us, those swingmen exist as kickout options for your rim attack. IT gets an inherent advantage in getting shots up because he runs the offense when he is in. Thornton forces shots because he doesn't know when the ball is coming his way, he is a better shooter than everyone else on the floor with him, and he doesn't need much space to get his shot off.
K
KingMilz
Guest
I agree I have not once got the feeling Marcus Thornton is our #2nd option in the starting line up this season, if he would play with more positive energy on both ends I could live with some of his forces but his lack of touches is kind of strange for a guy meant to be a #2 option. It feels like to me Salmons gets a lot more touches when they are both in the game.
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