Does this mean we need Cousins to have a season-ending injury? Then wins galore from next year on!
[Grades] Grades v. Thunder 12/6/2015
- Thread starter Bricklayer
- Start date
Does this mean we need Cousins to have a season-ending injury? Then wins galore from next year on!
jcwkings
All-Star
So is I said earlier that the Sacramento media is soft on Karl, never questioning his schemes/style of play. You also have to ask how soft has the local crappy media been on Cousins throughout his tenure here? How much of his antics/attitude issues get swept under the rug simply because its Sacramento media?
Why can a team like the Celtics with a bunch of run of the mill NBA talent be a solid NBA team, one that is well coached and play hard and together for 48 minutes. We look like a team with a bunch of agendas going on. Everyone is to blame from Karl, Cousins on down. No more excuses for anyone, we are playing like crap and it makes me sick. The only player that has been a pleasure to watch is the "cancer" signing Rondo. No wonder he won an NBA championship, you can see his winning attitude even amongst this filth of mediocrity and losers that surround him.
Why can a team like the Celtics with a bunch of run of the mill NBA talent be a solid NBA team, one that is well coached and play hard and together for 48 minutes. We look like a team with a bunch of agendas going on. Everyone is to blame from Karl, Cousins on down. No more excuses for anyone, we are playing like crap and it makes me sick. The only player that has been a pleasure to watch is the "cancer" signing Rondo. No wonder he won an NBA championship, you can see his winning attitude even amongst this filth of mediocrity and losers that surround him.
J
jdbraver
Guest
Unfortunately most local media are afraid to be critical. The franchise will shun those that question from the one pro sports team in town. The bee has no real investigative reporter. In fact Marty Mac would rather talk about a warn down Kobe.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Fair enough. My contention is that he shouldn't be the team leader. I think Rajon Rondo is the one we should be depending upon in that situation...
I feel sometimes like I defend DMC because it seems some around here are so hellbent on attacking him. He's not all bad. It's like how some attacked Kevin Martin because he wasn't assertive enough, or he didn't defend enough, etc. Each of these guys is unique. They have their strengths and weaknesses. We can't expect them to be the perfect player, but it seems like we always want to try.
I know I'm probably not making much sense. I'm tired, the stupid meeting went way too long, and I'm just sad we lost another game we could have won.
Maybe things will look better in the morning.
You make lots of sense, all the time. For me, something everyone...and these world class athletes can do, is have a decent attitude and act like a professional. Those who don't, aren't caring about that aspect enough to change it, and don't deserve the respect that they always seem to be craving.
Kevin Martin is a 'chill' dude. Has some class. That I can respect
Don't abandon him just learn a better offense where we are not dependent on him. He's our guy but unfortunately he's not always going to be there for us. We are trending this way already so just get better at it and adopt the mindset.
Marty Mac hasn't worked for the Bee in a long time. Jason Jones (whom I suspect you were really referring to) doesn't care enough to be critical.
The Hammer
All-Star
This. It must be this. There is no "wait and see" room here.
And the Malone decision continues to look worse and worse. Some of us (me included) were at least comforted, when Karl got hired, by the possibility that he could be a respectable replacement, HOF career and all.
I don't care about Cousins missed games. With a roster this talented, there is no excuse. The eye test confirms it. The man simply is stuck in an outdated, gimmicky philosophy, and the cherry on top is that he seems to not believe in defense. He is showing he does not have the flexibility to coach TO THE TALENT we have.
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Fair enough. My contention is that he shouldn't be the team leader. I think Rajon Rondo is the one we should be depending upon in that situation...
I feel sometimes like I defend DMC because it seems some around here are so hellbent on attacking him. He's not all bad. It's like how some attacked Kevin Martin because he wasn't assertive enough, or he didn't defend enough, etc. Each of these guys is unique. They have their strengths and weaknesses. We can't expect them to be the perfect player, but it seems like we always want to try.
I know I'm probably not making much sense. I'm tired, the stupid meeting went way too long, and I'm just sad we lost another game we could have won.
Maybe things will look better in the morning.
You're right VF, Cousins gets picked on, sometimes unfairly. The way I see it, its because Cousins is supposed to be this HOF top player in the league sort of guy. It simply doesn't make sense if one of the best players in the league isn't the leader on his team. Cousins has said it so many times, he wants to be the leader, he wants this to be HIS team. That's a big responsibility, and that means fans are going to demand perfection, especially when we're not winning. But on the flip side, when we are a winning team most of the credit will go to Cousins. Stars get all the praise and all the criticism, that's the way it works.
K
KingMilz
Guest
These losses are the best thing possible its exposing our so called hof big man and his wingman finally for how much both have been overrated and that niether is fit to lead a team. They picked the perfect season to do it since theres a ton of other interesting teams to watch.
Sucks WCS is out him and Rondo are the only two reasons this team is interesting
Sucks WCS is out him and Rondo are the only two reasons this team is interesting
SacTownGrantFan
Bench
Didn't get to watch the game tonight. Noticed Cousins shot 5-20. He's shooting 40.8% on the year. High level centers should shoot close to 50%. I understand some of these shots are put backs that lead to free throws.
Plus it's lowered by his 3 point shots. (Now at a meager 31%). Still I hope they can figure this out.
Plus it's lowered by his 3 point shots. (Now at a meager 31%). Still I hope they can figure this out.
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KingsFanGER
Starter
Because the Celtics know excactly, how they wanted to play and assembled the players around this idea.
I mean all it takes is to watch one Celtic game to get the point.
The Celtics are designed for maximum spacing, ball movement and maximum defensive pressure on perimeter players. This is obviously a pretty solid idea, when the value of the 3pointer is at an all time high, because all the defense is allowed to do is to put a hand up without getting too close to the shooter, and most teams will beat you from the perimeter.
You can't single out one or two players of the Celtics as an opposing coach and focus all your attention on slowing them down.
You try to slow down IT? Well the floor is wide open for players like Bradley, Crowder, Sully or Olynyk to get wide open looks. And it takes only a limited amount of talent to knock these type of shots down.
The offensive strategy of the Celtics starts with the high pick&roll with two players, that can shoot, over and over again. It's a simple basketball play with a very minor error rate. And the defense is forced to move right from the start and will give up an open jumpshot more often than not. This play is Bradleys bread an butter - screen - defender goes under the screen, shoot - defender trys to fight through the screen, drive or move the ball.
With us it's completely different. The moment you manage to slow down Cousins or Rudy the odds are against us. Our chances to get a win are close to zero.
We seldomly get wide open looks, once the defense collapses on Cuz or Rudy. Why? Because nobody needs to be afraid of KK, Willie or Rondo. Versus the Kings you can shrink the floor, force Cuz to be a perimeter player, force Rudy to attack from the 3pt line and you have a decent chance to win the game.
The lack of space will result in TO's and forced shots and this will lead to layups and open 3's in transition for our opponents. Celtics and Rockets executed this very well. Time and time again they attacked our defense early out of our mistakes on the offensive end. And even if the spacing is there from time to time (mostly with the smaller lineups) the error rate of Cousins and Rudy is still too high.
Mostly because plays for Cuz or Rudy start with them attacking 1vs1 without any screening, than driving inside 1vs the whole interior D and trying to hoist up a shot or dump the ball in heavy traffic.
Now which is the simpler play? The high pick&roll with a wide open floor, because everybody draws the defender out to the 3point line.
Or the 1vs1 play in heavy traffic, because the defense will give Rondo, Willie or KK and even Gay open shots, just to stop Cuz and force TO's?
And even when our offense starts with Rondo we have the problem, that only one guy is moving and the other players are screening for him or just stand around. If the defense manages to close out to the designated finisher of our play (Belli most of the time) we struggle to find a solution for it. We will fall back to 1vs1 ball again with less time on the clock or Belli pumpfakes or drives only to leave his feet and throw up a desperation shot or pass (him leaving his feet on every pass drives me crazy..).
It all comes down to trends. I know most of us don't like the way the league is heading nowadays. But at some point you have to admit, that teams with only mediocre basketball talent have a certain amount of success, just by following the trend.
So far these teams didn't manage to win it in the playoffs (when you don't consider the Spurs being one of these teams), but they had more success than the Kings.
It's all about space, ball and player movement, mobility and perimeter D.
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KingsFanGER
Starter
High level centers score out of the pick&roll, putbacks and use the jumphook, because they are able to elevate over the defense.
Cousins will never shoot a high percentage for his position. His playstyle is too unorthodox and too centered around getting to the freethrow-line to do that.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Two things: 1) as I mentioned earlier in the season, with this bizarre have your 6'11" 270lb center start his attacks at the 3pt line offense, I think 45% would have been a good season for Cuz given his position on the floor. And before anybody poopoos that, stop and use your heads for a moment, and imagine what Andre Drummond, DeAndre Jordan, Dwight Howard or any of the rest would shoot like if their twin roles were shooting threes, or dribble driving to the rim from the 3pt line. But 2) now Cuz appears to be lumbering with something. The back maybe. But something that is taking his legs and reducing his agility. And so now that freak offense becomes essentially impossible to execute for him, and things have quickly plummeted.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
You have to hand it to this group of cluster****s. They always pull out the loss no matter what. Against all odds, we will find a way to lose.
****ing pathetic once again.
****ing pathetic once again.
SacTownGrantFan
Bench
His past three seasons Cuz averaged over 47% field goals made. I know he is capable of getting back to that level. Yes, his playstyle is (absurdly) unorthodox, but that's because the coach is playing him that way. I'm not trying to bring up the coach issue here.
As you said, high level centers use putbacks, jump hooks, and pick and roll.
Cuz certainly gets his share of putback attempts. It seems like he misses a lot of them but maybe that's an off-base observation.
Jump hooks - I don't even remember if Cuz ever established an effective jump hook. Hopefully he has. His game has gone sooo far away from that.
And pick and roll - Cuz used to do it more in prior seasons and it was effective. There's absolutely no reason why he couldn't (and why he should IMO) go back to the pick and roll every now and again. Cuz has a beautiful mid range jump shot. And it's so much easier on his body. Back, ankles, you name it.
Feels like I'm drawing at straws, but I hope some of these traditional changes start to take place. Just because he has freakish talent doesn't mean he has to be played like a freak show on the court.
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KingsFanGER
Starter
Well he has no jumphook. He has something close to it, but he doesn't jump
He tried this shot against the Thunder. Digs into the defender, uses his elbow and shoulder to dislodge him and tries to finish over him with a hook. That's probably the closest thing to a jumphook we will ever see from Cuz. He is too groundbound to really finish over the defense.
Problem this season is, that he has trouble finishing at the rim and misses a lot of shots he would have made in the past. And there is no space for counter moves, when he gets the ball inside. He was terrible in the paint and post against the Thunder, but he has no time to get a decent shot, before the D crashes down on him.
And once the D is there, hands are reaching in and everybody is allowed to slap on his arms and shoulders, he can't make the pass to the open man or decides to throw up a prayer and hopes for the foul call.
With his playstyle Cousins will ironically always be at the mercy of the refs. That's just who he is. He is closer to James Harden than to guys like Drummond.
Whatever.
At some point, these players need to take some damn pride in how they're playing. The only guy I can definitively say is giving it his all every time he steps on the floor is Casspi and probably Rondo. That's flat out inexcusable. There's always an excuse that can be made like Karl or some other factor to vlame, but at the end of the day, we just don't see that desire to win on a game to game basis.
It's just frustrating watching players like Russell Westbrook and IT play with an "all out" mindset everyt one minute they're on the floor.
At some point, these players need to take some damn pride in how they're playing. The only guy I can definitively say is giving it his all every time he steps on the floor is Casspi and probably Rondo. That's flat out inexcusable. There's always an excuse that can be made like Karl or some other factor to vlame, but at the end of the day, we just don't see that desire to win on a game to game basis.
It's just frustrating watching players like Russell Westbrook and IT play with an "all out" mindset everyt one minute they're on the floor.
King Baller
All-Star
I think I would give the ball to Collison and let him create, he might even pass to an open shooter
K
KingMilz
Guest
Aside from Casspi we have zero high motor players on the roster that play hard on every possession. That and basketball iq seprates good teams from us and sadly most the players on this roster lack both these things.
At least we can say we're elite at something.
SacTownGrantFan
Bench
Well said.Well he has no jumphook. He has something close to it, but he doesn't jump
He tried this shot against the Thunder. Digs into the defender, uses his elbow and shoulder to dislodge him and tries to finish over him with a hook. That's probably the closest thing to a jumphook we will ever see from Cuz. He is too groundbound to really finish over the defense.
Problem this season is, that he has trouble finishing at the rim and misses a lot of shots he would have made in the past. And there is no space for counter moves, when he gets the ball inside. He was terrible in the paint and post against the Thunder, but he has no time to get a decent shot, before the D crashes down on him.
And once the D is there, hands are reaching in and everybody is allowed to slap on his arms and shoulders, he can't make the pass to the open man or decides to throw up a prayer and hopes for the foul call.
With his playstyle Cousins will ironically always be at the mercy of the refs. That's just who he is. He is closer to James Harden than to guys like Drummond.
Do you think there is an offense where they wouldn't want to commit all these defenders to swarm Cousins at the hoop? I.e. some kind of balanced offense
ForlornKing
Starter
Demarcus was in better shape last season. Looks a little fuller this year. Seemingly getting injured more, less finishing around the rim. And yes even when he was dropping 30 points per game I still noticed it.
He just needs to man up and hit the weights hard. And the treadmill. He's said in the before he doesn't like weights because he thinks it will make him stiff and not flexible.
Picture a Cuz at the same weight, but with a lower body fat percentage and higher muscle mass. I just don't get why he doesn't.
He just needs to man up and hit the weights hard. And the treadmill. He's said in the before he doesn't like weights because he thinks it will make him stiff and not flexible.
Picture a Cuz at the same weight, but with a lower body fat percentage and higher muscle mass. I just don't get why he doesn't.
Bosnian Diehard
Starter
I'd give BMac some credit when it comes to putting in 100% effort.
Chupacabra
Starter
Ive been recording the games so that i can begin watching them an hour after start time and then check the final score on my phone once i get to half time because of games like this. I would feel a hell of alot better about this season if it werent for all of the injuries weve had to endure.
I might need a break.
I might need a break.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
That was the point I was trying to get across earlier myself. Cut down on the fat and lean up and strengthen your muscles by hitting the weights more.
Chubbs
Starter
The good. Vlade definitely upgraded the team. And the west is absolutely awful all of a sudden. Whoever gets hot has a chance...to get swept by the Spurs or Warriors or thunder. But at least we'd avoid the risk of giving the sixers a top 3 pick. It's very attainable we reach the magic win total to give our pick to Chicago.
Yes, that's the good.
The bad? There is not even an average defensive player in the entire backcourt (with DC and rondo among the worst in the nba). Ben plays with effort but he's frequently still painfully clueless.
Rondo seems to be a net negative. His defense is abysmal. Embarrassing. Can't win with him. You just can't. No one has in multiple seasons and we are seeing why. He plays one half the game. It's time someone said it.
And Boogie hasn't been this consistently bad in years. He just sucks out there launching 3's. His last 3-4 have been exceptionally bad. And the whole team follows.
Boogie is NOT getting it done. Maybe it's injuries. I think so. But then that's another problem. If he can't play through nagging issues, then he's not a star. It's that simple. Stars don't actively help their team lose, and that's what is happening right now. There's no way around it. A 25% shooting road trip?
Maybe it IS him. Cause he's showing zero ability to lead a much more talented team. The coach just shouldn't matter. Not THIS much. They should be better. I'm seriously done with the excuses for the guy. No one on the team looks like they give a snit whatsoever and I'm right there with them. Their games look like scrimmages. It's embarrassing. It's like Keith smart is back coaching the team.
And look, I'm a huge Boogie supporter. But it's year 6. I have no more craps to give.
Even if hurt, Boogie is making very clear that he's not the guy to lead a team. That's the simple truth. No more excuses. This season was IT. IT had to happen and they were all but buried in a deep dark hole before December 1st. And they are progressively getting worse somehow. If he's not 100% there physically, then he still needs to remain 100% mentally. And he's NOT DOING THAT right now. This season would be completely done if the whole west didn't fall apart simultaneously.
Cameras are increasing focusing on Boogie's horrific facial expressions, sometimes through entire timeouts. The attacks on him from the media are making his time here come to the end (print media mostly silent, but your King's play by play guy is urging to trade Boogie every afternoon on the radio). Grant and Jerry have taken to pointing out every possession he's still on the other side of the court complaining. They're building a case to get rid of him, making him the scapecoat.
And the sad thing is they cannot fire Karl. And frankly, not sure it'd make a lick of difference anyway. Anyone in a king's uniform immediately becomes apathetic amd sucked into the dungeon of negativity and forgets how to play defense. It feels like March/April at the end of another miserable season. And it's only December 7th.
How on earth is this team 7-14 (edit:7-15)? It's unreal. It's like living in the twilight zone. And it was a disaster from day 1. Those Sacramento proud commercials are extremely grating at this point. It's a fantasy. There's no proud out there. No burning motivation.
And definitely no hella proud.
It's the same crap team it's been the last ten. I expect them to find a way to lose every game they play. Other teams know it too.
Yes, that's the good.
The bad? There is not even an average defensive player in the entire backcourt (with DC and rondo among the worst in the nba). Ben plays with effort but he's frequently still painfully clueless.
Rondo seems to be a net negative. His defense is abysmal. Embarrassing. Can't win with him. You just can't. No one has in multiple seasons and we are seeing why. He plays one half the game. It's time someone said it.
And Boogie hasn't been this consistently bad in years. He just sucks out there launching 3's. His last 3-4 have been exceptionally bad. And the whole team follows.
Boogie is NOT getting it done. Maybe it's injuries. I think so. But then that's another problem. If he can't play through nagging issues, then he's not a star. It's that simple. Stars don't actively help their team lose, and that's what is happening right now. There's no way around it. A 25% shooting road trip?
Maybe it IS him. Cause he's showing zero ability to lead a much more talented team. The coach just shouldn't matter. Not THIS much. They should be better. I'm seriously done with the excuses for the guy. No one on the team looks like they give a snit whatsoever and I'm right there with them. Their games look like scrimmages. It's embarrassing. It's like Keith smart is back coaching the team.
And look, I'm a huge Boogie supporter. But it's year 6. I have no more craps to give.
Even if hurt, Boogie is making very clear that he's not the guy to lead a team. That's the simple truth. No more excuses. This season was IT. IT had to happen and they were all but buried in a deep dark hole before December 1st. And they are progressively getting worse somehow. If he's not 100% there physically, then he still needs to remain 100% mentally. And he's NOT DOING THAT right now. This season would be completely done if the whole west didn't fall apart simultaneously.
Cameras are increasing focusing on Boogie's horrific facial expressions, sometimes through entire timeouts. The attacks on him from the media are making his time here come to the end (print media mostly silent, but your King's play by play guy is urging to trade Boogie every afternoon on the radio). Grant and Jerry have taken to pointing out every possession he's still on the other side of the court complaining. They're building a case to get rid of him, making him the scapecoat.
And the sad thing is they cannot fire Karl. And frankly, not sure it'd make a lick of difference anyway. Anyone in a king's uniform immediately becomes apathetic amd sucked into the dungeon of negativity and forgets how to play defense. It feels like March/April at the end of another miserable season. And it's only December 7th.
How on earth is this team 7-14 (edit:7-15)? It's unreal. It's like living in the twilight zone. And it was a disaster from day 1. Those Sacramento proud commercials are extremely grating at this point. It's a fantasy. There's no proud out there. No burning motivation.
And definitely no hella proud.
It's the same crap team it's been the last ten. I expect them to find a way to lose every game they play. Other teams know it too.
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kingjatt
Starter
A man of Cuz's size cannot run at the number 1 pace in the league for 35+ mins a night. He is a stubborn fierce competitor so he won't come out and say he cant run, so this is where a COMPETENT coach recognizes it and makes an adjustment. How can he just sit there and not see Cuz hobbling around the entire game? He is already looking worn down and on numerous plays was late running back on offense or defense. His free throws clanking at the end of the game had the signs of tired legs/back written all over them.
Another thing Ive noticed is Karl never stands up for Cuz when he is getting hosed by the refs or steps in to talk to Cuz and calm him down, almost feels like hes saying look at this Vivek, I wanted to get rid of this, this is the guy you think is going to bring you a winning team?? Instead of trying to prove a point or just saying FU to the front office Karl should maybe try to show Cuz that he is on his side and has back.
Karls stupid offensive and defensive "system" supersedes putting putting players in an optimal position to succeeded, this is really like watching Keith Smart all over again, the wins we do manage to get looked more based on sheer talent or the other team having an off night rather than anything related to coaching or strategy.
I don't know the numbers but based on the eye test Cuz's defense is not what it was last year either. He is a BIG body George, let him and Rudy be big and pound teams inside instead of a gimicky run and gun dribble drive from the top offense. If we go back to being big and defensive we have a good enough half court offense to win at a better rate than we are right now. But George will die by his "system" that absolutely does not fit this personnel.
Unfortunately George will not be fired and if by chance he is fired its likely this is another lost season just 20 or so games in. Vlades biggest mistake so far? Not firing George immediately after finding out about him trying to create a players revolt vs. Cuz.
Another thing Ive noticed is Karl never stands up for Cuz when he is getting hosed by the refs or steps in to talk to Cuz and calm him down, almost feels like hes saying look at this Vivek, I wanted to get rid of this, this is the guy you think is going to bring you a winning team?? Instead of trying to prove a point or just saying FU to the front office Karl should maybe try to show Cuz that he is on his side and has back.
Karls stupid offensive and defensive "system" supersedes putting putting players in an optimal position to succeeded, this is really like watching Keith Smart all over again, the wins we do manage to get looked more based on sheer talent or the other team having an off night rather than anything related to coaching or strategy.
I don't know the numbers but based on the eye test Cuz's defense is not what it was last year either. He is a BIG body George, let him and Rudy be big and pound teams inside instead of a gimicky run and gun dribble drive from the top offense. If we go back to being big and defensive we have a good enough half court offense to win at a better rate than we are right now. But George will die by his "system" that absolutely does not fit this personnel.
Unfortunately George will not be fired and if by chance he is fired its likely this is another lost season just 20 or so games in. Vlades biggest mistake so far? Not firing George immediately after finding out about him trying to create a players revolt vs. Cuz.
Livinthedream
All-Star
To this point, if you're going to build a team with an identity, you can't have a mindset of players on the team being untradable. That doesn't mean I want Cousins traded. He's the guy I would want to keep. But you only get one guy to build around.
Being afraid to trade a guy like Rudy simply because of his offensive talents, is going to hold the organization back if he doesn't fit what the team is trying to do. It's not just Rudy. It goes for anyone on the roster. But before you start trading, better have a plan beyond trying to acquire "talent." That plan has to have coach, GM, and owner on board. Right now, players, coaches, GM and owner seem to be functioning independently. When that happens, you're dysfunctional and it doesn't matter how much player talent you get.
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