Grades v. Suns 04/11
- Thread starter Bricklayer
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R
Rome
Guest
kennadog said:
ok yea he didn't rebound. Big deal. That wasn't the factor that played into losing tonight. We were doing fine in the 1st half without SAR rebounding. but KT scoring a total of 0 POINTS is just funny against a SUNS team that can't play defense if their lives counted on it.
GoGoGadget
All-Star
Rome said:
Actually, the Suns' run in the 3rd quarter coincided with them pounding us on the glass. We were in the rebounding hole 14-4 at one point in the 3rd, I believe.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
The Suns shot 70% for the second half. That is why we lost. We went cold and ran no offense whatsoever. That is why we didn't have a chance to win.
kennadog
Dog On It!
Rebounding most certainly was a problem for the team in this game and contributed to the loss. Especially in the second half. The only decent rebounders this game were Brad and Bonzi. KT didn't show up, but that hardly excuses SAR's pathetic rebounding all season as a PF. I like parts of both their games, but PF has got to be our weakest position on the floor.Rome said:
Rebounding alone wouldn't have won this game, but be outrebounded by the worst rebounding team in the league is bad.
R
Rome
Guest
Here's KT's stats for the past 5 games.
4 ppg 5.2 rpb
4 ppg 5.2 rpb
kennadog
Dog On It!
So? SAR for the season = 5 KT = 7.4 Actually neither is very good for a PF, but SAR is clearly worse in that Department. We put SAR in we get more offense, but lose rebounding. Put Kenny in rebounding generally goes up, but scoring goes down. Rebounding is a more serous problem on this team, not scoring.Rome said:
R
Rome
Guest
well then explain to me why the team made a run in the 1st half when SAR was attacking in the post. And when the 2nd half started we started KT and thats when then the problems began.
And don't just say the Suns were making all of their shots.
And i agree. I think all three of our front line players including Brad, KT, and SAR are horrible in the department of rebounding/defense.
And don't just say the Suns were making all of their shots.
And i agree. I think all three of our front line players including Brad, KT, and SAR are horrible in the department of rebounding/defense.
GoGoGadget
All-Star
Rome said:
You're trying to compare two things that have absolutely zero to do with each other. In the first half, SAR's scoring was effective and helped to build the lead. In the second half the Kings were being killed on the glass, rebounding would have helped solve that problem, Reef provided next to none.
His scoring in the first half doesn't negate his nonexistant rebounding throughout the game any more than his lack of boards takes away the impact his scoring had in the first half.
EDIT: Unless, of course, your argument is that the key to winning this game would have been to just outscore the Suns while at the same time giving them as many opportunities as possible to continue padding their score.
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nbrans
All-Star
Last night's game notwithstanding, it's kind of a myth that the Kings rebound much worse with Shareef in the game than Kenny. According to 82games.com, when Shareef is in the game the Kings, as a team, get 29.1% of their offensive rebounds and 69.9% of their defensive rebounds, which translates to an average of 49.5%. When Kenny is in the game the Kings get 27.5% of their offensive rebounds and 71.5% of their defensive rebounds, which translates to an average of 49.5%.
So when Shareef is in the game the defensive rebounding suffers (not surprising), but there are more offensive rebounds. Vice versa for Kenny, but the average of 49.5% is still the same. Perhaps there is something to playmaker's old theory that Shareef boxes out and others get the rebound (like Bonzi), because the team rebounding rate is the same.
So when Shareef is in the game the defensive rebounding suffers (not surprising), but there are more offensive rebounds. Vice versa for Kenny, but the average of 49.5% is still the same. Perhaps there is something to playmaker's old theory that Shareef boxes out and others get the rebound (like Bonzi), because the team rebounding rate is the same.
jboCARDfan76
Prospect
"Garcia ( D ) -- appropriately for this game, Cisco's lone first half contribution was a single three. Hustled, but made a series of rookie mistakes in the late third that helped the Suns come roaring back. Would like to give him a higher grade for the effort, but the boneheaded plays (dumb fouls, forced shots) considerably hurt us tonight at a critical period as the Suns dominated the latter stages of the third quarter and tied us up by the end of the period."
I'm just curious, since I couldn't watch the game. Garcia played all of 2 minutes in the second half. He shot 1-2 for the game, both 3-pointers. He had no turnovers and 3 fouls (I did see the 3 point play he gave up after hitting the 3 in the first half). I by no means am questioning your grade since I saw like 2 minutes of the first half on NBA coast to coast, but how can a guy who played no more then 2 second half minutes and missed one shot during that time "make a series of rookie mistakes" (0 turnovers), "Forced shots" (missed one shot)...I guess I'd like to know what happened in these two minutes that caused you to pin so much on Garcia...
I'm just curious, since I couldn't watch the game. Garcia played all of 2 minutes in the second half. He shot 1-2 for the game, both 3-pointers. He had no turnovers and 3 fouls (I did see the 3 point play he gave up after hitting the 3 in the first half). I by no means am questioning your grade since I saw like 2 minutes of the first half on NBA coast to coast, but how can a guy who played no more then 2 second half minutes and missed one shot during that time "make a series of rookie mistakes" (0 turnovers), "Forced shots" (missed one shot)...I guess I'd like to know what happened in these two minutes that caused you to pin so much on Garcia...
CruzDude
Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
What bothers me most is how Kenny Smith has disappeared these last 4-5 games. No offense at all and defense has dropped. Put in Sharif ! ! Now!
The Kings have, in the past few years, had the great tendency to blow big first half leads in the second half. Somehow they don't understand that the other team is going to step it up in the 3rd quarter and they look like they are trying to slide along with the lead.
Inconsistency, always the lack on consistency. Don't know solution but can sure see the problem.
The Kings have, in the past few years, had the great tendency to blow big first half leads in the second half. Somehow they don't understand that the other team is going to step it up in the 3rd quarter and they look like they are trying to slide along with the lead.
Inconsistency, always the lack on consistency. Don't know solution but can sure see the problem.
Rockmeister
All-Star
Man, what a very disappointing game. Had the Kings won last night, they would have clinched a playoff berth.
quick dog
Starter
Despite all the obvious shortcomings of some of our players (Kenny, Kevin, and Cisco), the Kings would have won this game had they made fewer boneheaded turnovers (eg, Brad basically handing the ball to the opposing player and Bonzi with careless ball-handling) and if the Kings had made their free throws. The game was close. Those turnovers cost us unnecessary fast-break points.
It is unfortunate that we will now have to play the Spurs in the first round. The Kings really stepped on their collective appendages last night. Ron Ron's affirmative assertions look a bit hollow at this point.
It is unfortunate that we will now have to play the Spurs in the first round. The Kings really stepped on their collective appendages last night. Ron Ron's affirmative assertions look a bit hollow at this point.
The most confusing aspect of last nights game was the dichotomy between the Kings offense in the first and second halves. Sacramento utilized Rahim on obvious mismatches in the first half and as a result were getting open shots from the perimeter and layups for Reef when not double-teamed. Not surprisingly, we scored close to 70 points. Then we decide that since our shots are falling from the post, they must also be falling from 20+ feet.
So we continued to jack shot after shot and in doing so relinquish point after point of our lead. Rick brought Reef in with 4 minutes remaining in the third to put an end to our offensive struggles....or so I thought.
For the final 4 minutes of the quarter we continued to force from the outside, and when Reef did get the ball in the post, he made a futile effort at emulating John Stockton. And not surprisingly, he turned the ball over on consecutive possessions. When you get the ball in the post, try and score. This team needs post efficiency, not another passing big man. But instead of telling Reef that he must be aggressive in the post, coach took him out and played Bonzi at the PF. THe Suns are the best small ball team in basketball and we decide to play into their strength rather than exploit their points of vulnerability. I found last night very frustrating and yes, Reef did stink it up on the boards last night. He also struggled with baseline help D in the second half. That being said, he is by far our best post defender and arguably the second best defender on the team.
So we continued to jack shot after shot and in doing so relinquish point after point of our lead. Rick brought Reef in with 4 minutes remaining in the third to put an end to our offensive struggles....or so I thought.For the final 4 minutes of the quarter we continued to force from the outside, and when Reef did get the ball in the post, he made a futile effort at emulating John Stockton. And not surprisingly, he turned the ball over on consecutive possessions. When you get the ball in the post, try and score. This team needs post efficiency, not another passing big man. But instead of telling Reef that he must be aggressive in the post, coach took him out and played Bonzi at the PF. THe Suns are the best small ball team in basketball and we decide to play into their strength rather than exploit their points of vulnerability. I found last night very frustrating and yes, Reef did stink it up on the boards last night. He also struggled with baseline help D in the second half. That being said, he is by far our best post defender and arguably the second best defender on the team.
SacKings384
Starter
quick dog said:Ron Ron's affirmative assertions look a bit hollow at this point.
Although the one everyone laughed at him about (Kings are going to make the playoffs) is all but a done deal now...
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
jboCARDfan76 said:
There was a reason he only got those two minutes unfortunately -- actually I would have said 3+, but maybe the stats disagree. In any case, working from memory I would say in those two minutes he a) committed a dumb foul on Marion as he soared in for a dunk, thus giving him a +1. Had no chance for the block, and while Skinner might be able to out muscle Marion midair, Garcia cannot. Just one of those over-exuberance plays. then b) forced up an atrocious I-wanna-ba-a-hero three pointer early in the shot clock. Totally pointless and outside the offense. Again, overexcited. Then c) got involved in consecutive scrums under the hoop on offense, the first of which ended up with him caught up front as the Suns broke back the other direction on us. Again, not a smart play. The second of which was his lone bright point as he managed to come up with the ball and get fouled. And then hit only 1 of 2 from the line. Eventful. But generally wild and out of control and clearly hurt us during that stretch.
Wheeler03 said:The most confusing aspect of last nights game was the dichotomy between the Kings offense in the first and second halves. Sacramento utilized Rahim on obvious mismatches in the first half and as a result were getting open shots from the perimeter and layups for Reef when not double-teamed. Not surprisingly, we scored close to 70 points. Then we decide that since our shots are falling from the post, they must also be falling from 20+ feet.
For the final 4 minutes of the quarter we continued to force from the outside, and when Reef did get the ball in the post, he made a futile effort at emulating John Stockton. And not surprisingly, he turned the ball over on consecutive possessions. When you get the ball in the post, try and score. This team needs post efficiency, not another passing big man. But instead of telling Reef that he must be aggressive in the post, coach took him out and played Bonzi at the PF. THe Suns are the best small ball team in basketball and we decide to play into their strength rather than exploit their points of vulnerability. I found last night very frustrating and yes, Reef did stink it up on the boards last night. He also struggled with baseline help D in the second half. That being said, he is by far our best post defender and arguably the second best defender on the team.
That's why I think it's a good idea that the Maloofs are waiting to see how the team plays in the playoffs before doing anything with Adelman.
Stuff like that makes you wonder how anyone make such stupid decisions.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Goo said:
Odd that others players on the Kings seemed to scrounge up a couple. I'm pretty sure I grabbed more rebounds than Reef did last night.
Also note, he played similar minutes in both halves.
K
Kamehameha
Guest
Bricklayer said:
You must have some anti-Shareef "thing".
Every dang post from you is about Shareef being a wuss or a girl or soft or whatever. What the heck?
Did he insult your wife or something? I mean, come on.
You knock Shareef for being "soft", yet Brad Miller gets a free pass? I mean, is there a bigger softie in the league?
At least Shareef is boxing people out and trying to play defense. Brad gets all sorts of time to grab rebounds since he's usually busy trying to figure out why he just got burnt and isn't doing anything worthwhile defensively.
You knock Shareef for being a "wuss", yet Mike Bibby shows up on the sidelines with fingernail clippers and a nail file. This guy hasn't shown up to play a lick of defense all year long, yet he gets a free pass.
At least Shareef tries to bring it on both ends of the floor.
Let me tell you something, it isn't Shareef's lack of rebounding this year that led to piled up losses. It was lack of defense! The lack of defense starts and ends with Bibby and Miller.
Shareef isn't the answer for this team, but you bash him like he slapped your mother. I mean, you've got real issues with the guy. The only reason I can think of is that you think he's trying to replace Webber.
He's not Webber, we know that. We see that. No one will ever bring the smile to my face like Webber, but let it go. Shareef isn't trying to be Webber.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
You REALLY don't want to make this personal Kame. And if you had been around here for more than 14 posts, you would know that NOBODY gets a free pass.
Hey here's a thought -- if Reef, or more specifically Reef's brownnosers, want me to get off his back about him rebounding like my aunt, then how about he get his sorry pretty boy *** into the paint and grab a bleeping rebound. Fairly remarkable concept, I know. Much easier to make excuses and whine incessantly.
Hey here's a thought -- if Reef, or more specifically Reef's brownnosers, want me to get off his back about him rebounding like my aunt, then how about he get his sorry pretty boy *** into the paint and grab a bleeping rebound. Fairly remarkable concept, I know. Much easier to make excuses and whine incessantly.
K
Kamehameha
Guest
Bricklayer said:
First, no one has made this personal. If you read something personal in my post, then you have your own issues.
Second, you're threatening me? That's absurd. Over what I wrote in the previous post? Come on. I'm just stating what I've seen. Every post from you has been about Reef being some plug or dress wearing sissy or some such nonsensical junk.
I am not giving Shareef a pass on the rebounding. He's been poor this year. I'll take it a step further, he's been pee-poor. I'm not defending him or anything. What I am saying is that I've seen you (and others) call him out about it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. If that's the biggest complaint on his game, that he should get another 2-3 rebounds, then I think he's doing better than the other 4 guys on our roster.
I promise if all those rebounds Shareef doesn't get turn into points, it still isn't nearly the number of points Bibby lets in by flopping around playing zero defense.
Our losses are not attributable to Shareef's rebounding. Does it help? No, of course not. Though I am sure there are a lot of other reasons (bigger reasons) for this team to be losing.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Am I threatening you. Interesting. Let's put it this way -- you were headed for trouble for the first half of your last post. And as your posts have indicated a certain knowledge of this board, nor am I willing to give you a newbie discount just because you have chosen to come in under a new username.
Now substantively, this is not a competiton. The classic Reef jocking stance has been to take a dump on another King to excuse Reef's shortcomings. No. Pathetic. We have just about THE worst rebounding major minute PF in the league this year on our team. And becuase you've got his poster on your wall people are supposed to just ignore that fact and not talk about it? And on a night when it was on full display and signficantly hurt us?
You are in the wrong place if you come here looking for a wide eyed fanclub for your boy.
Now substantively, this is not a competiton. The classic Reef jocking stance has been to take a dump on another King to excuse Reef's shortcomings. No. Pathetic. We have just about THE worst rebounding major minute PF in the league this year on our team. And becuase you've got his poster on your wall people are supposed to just ignore that fact and not talk about it? And on a night when it was on full display and signficantly hurt us?
You are in the wrong place if you come here looking for a wide eyed fanclub for your boy.
K
Kamehameha
Guest
Bricklayer said:
What are you talking about? I don't know who you think I am, but I assure you you're posturing to the wrong person.
As for "my boy", I also don't know who you are referring to. I just called you out for consitantly bashing one particular player. If you're upset about it, so be it.
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