Grades v. Suns 04/11
- Thread starter Bricklayer
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:: breaks out his secret decoder ring ::
So... what you're saying is that Kamehameha was a PBP?
So... what you're saying is that Kamehameha was a PBP?
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Bricklayer said:
Is this not "player bashing"
R
Rome
Guest
Bricklayer said:
Is this kind of talk really necessary. I mean i get mad at Reef's lack of rebounding or Mike Bibby and Miller's lack of defense but I never posted something like this.
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beemerr23
Guest
Bricklayer: Like I said in the other thread, you're concerned with SAR's rebounding? Seriously, it makes me wonder what you think of our Center. I really just can't even begin to understand why you're blaming our rebounding weakness on Shareef, it just boggles me.
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beemerr23
Guest
The oaf we like to call our Center gets 10 more minutes than Shareef does, thus his rebounding is higher. Plus...you know...he's 7 feet tall, he SHOULD be out rebounding SAR. Next let's talk about Miller's defense, shall we?
beemerr23 said:
And when Shareef WAS getting that many minutes he was still getting outrebounded, except he was averaging about 6 instead of 5.
The sad thing is I actually LIKE Shareef, I just dislike all his biggest fans that have their own Reef fan club that they want to shove down my(and everyone else's) throat. Yeah I like him, you guys love him-great for you. It doesn't mean you have to put down everyone else on the team trying to defend him ;-_-. Yeah, we KNOW Brad isn't a good rebounder. Neither is Shareef, in fact Shareef's actually a worse rebounder.
PFs are getting more rebounds in this league than Cs are anyways.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
beemerr23 said:
Why do I get the feeling boggling you on this issue is not that difficult.
Follow the bouncing ball: we played a game on Tuesday. It was against the Suns. In that game on Tuesday our center grabbed 10 rebounds. In that same game on Tuesday Reef grabbed 3 rebounds.
Now here's the toughie -- stay with me now -- WHICH player do you think is going to draw fire for his rebounding after that game?
I'll let you think deep thoughts on that one for a while.
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beemerr23
Guest
First off, I'm not a Reef homer, or part of the Reef fan club, but it gets annoying seeing people blame our rebounding woes on someone who's not responsible. When Shareef got 37 minutes a game, he pulled down 9.3 rebounds while scoring 20 points a game. This year, he's shooting .528 from the field, #6 in the league. Miller in his whole career has gotten over 8.4 rebounds a year, only twice. He also is the most played Center in the NBA by minutes, yet still only gets 7.8 a game. Did I also mention he's 29/32 in the league for blocks per 48 minutes? 
I'll let you soak all that info in, it may be a bit too much for ya.
I'll let you soak all that info in, it may be a bit too much for ya.Beem.....you just violated Bricklayer. I am not certain he will be capable of sitting down anytime soon.
You better watch out though. Our mighty "authority figures" might ban you for posting a dissenting opinion. If I am not mistaken a certain European country implemented a similar type of government in the mid 1930's. Here is a novel idea....how about not banning people who post ideas you do not agree with. This is a message board. It is not life or death.
You better watch out though. Our mighty "authority figures" might ban you for posting a dissenting opinion. If I am not mistaken a certain European country implemented a similar type of government in the mid 1930's. Here is a novel idea....how about not banning people who post ideas you do not agree with. This is a message board. It is not life or death.
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beemerr23
Guest
Haha yeah, I should probably refrain from posting anytime my opinion differs, especially if it's an administrative figure! 
Didn't you just try baiting the mods in another thread with your "oh noes, I amz going to get my post deleted" BS? That post, when last I checked, is still there. It's like you're daring the mods to take action against you so that you and your homies can come back with your tired sense of "righteous" indignation.
Nobody's buying your martyr routine; knock it off.
Nobody's buying your martyr routine; knock it off.
Wheeler03 and beemerr23 - KInock off the sarcasm and smart-arse comments. They don't do anything but raise the testosterone level around here and that's NOT what our board is all about. Keep your comments about the topic at hand. Future posts not germane to the pertinent topic of discusssion are going to be deleted. Period.
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Now, about SAR and his rebounding "when he got 37 minutes a game, he pulled down 9.3 rebounds while scoring 20 points."
Wow. Good for him. And you know what? It's TOTALLY and completely irrelevant.
He is our power foward. He should be pulling down rebounds. It doesn't matter what he did in the past; what matters is the NOW. He needs to be rebounding, as do Brad, Bonzi, Kenny, etc. Because SAR is our power forward, his lack of rebounding is more apparent. And since he's now getting more minutes than Kenny, he's going to have to step up and get the job done. The same holds true for Kenny Thomas.
All this posturing about how Bricklayer is picking on one player is pathetic. This team is trying to get into the playoffs. These are highly paid, talented professionals. They know what they need to be doing. The fact we're pointing it out on a message board certainly shouldn't come as a surprise to them OR to their fans. Or to any fans of basketball.
Our previous power forward, some guy named Chris Webber, was crucified on an almost daily basis and he's close to a 20/10/5 LIFETIME player.
Shareef NEEDS to box out and grab rebounds. Period. Why he isn't doing it on a regular basis is fair game for discussion, criticism, conjecture, etc.
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Now, about SAR and his rebounding "when he got 37 minutes a game, he pulled down 9.3 rebounds while scoring 20 points."
Wow. Good for him. And you know what? It's TOTALLY and completely irrelevant.
He is our power foward. He should be pulling down rebounds. It doesn't matter what he did in the past; what matters is the NOW. He needs to be rebounding, as do Brad, Bonzi, Kenny, etc. Because SAR is our power forward, his lack of rebounding is more apparent. And since he's now getting more minutes than Kenny, he's going to have to step up and get the job done. The same holds true for Kenny Thomas.
All this posturing about how Bricklayer is picking on one player is pathetic. This team is trying to get into the playoffs. These are highly paid, talented professionals. They know what they need to be doing. The fact we're pointing it out on a message board certainly shouldn't come as a surprise to them OR to their fans. Or to any fans of basketball.
Our previous power forward, some guy named Chris Webber, was crucified on an almost daily basis and he's close to a 20/10/5 LIFETIME player.
Shareef NEEDS to box out and grab rebounds. Period. Why he isn't doing it on a regular basis is fair game for discussion, criticism, conjecture, etc.
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Wheeler03 said:
beemerr23 said:Haha yeah, I should probably refrain from posting anytime my opinion differs, especially if it's an administrative figure!
Alright gentlemen, I'll make this short.
It is virtually impossible to get yourself banned on this board for disagreeing with me on basketball issues, however vehemently.
It IS however entirely possible to get yourself banned on this board for becoming a general irritant, or, as in this case, forcing public moderation discussions which detract from the basketball discussion.
For this one last time, I'll leave the decision of how you want to play this up to you. Neither of you contribute much to this board beyond aggressive aggravation. Neither of you will be terribly missed or remembered. There are absolutely no countervailing factors to cause me to hesitate to act if you choose poorly.
Padrino
All-Star
after 5 pages...this thread hasn't accomplished much. no, reef is not the (as in, singular) problem when concerning the kings rebounding woes. but neither is he the answer. the kings are a poor rebounding team. that is no secret, so there's no harm in saying that reef needs to start rebounding better. all the kings not named bonzi wells and kenny thomas (who have both done well in picking up some of the rebounding slack despite their size) need to start rebounding better. thomas is doing his job on the glass, despite the fact that he's not real tall and not real strong when compared to other PF's in the league. to expect more of thomas would be ludicrous. same thing with bonzi. he's strong and hard-nosed, but its still startling at times for a SG to be able to rebound like he does, so you can't expect any more from bonzi than he's already given. it'd be nice to get a few more rebounds from artest because of his strength, as well as from young guys like martin and garcia, but those really aren't the positions where the kings need rebounding.
our premier bigs need to rebound better. that leaves two names, realistically speaking: brad miller and shareef abdur rahim. reef deserves no free pass. and the completely overblown "why does miller get a free pass?" position isn't gonna cut it. miller doesn't get a free pass, on this board or anywhere else, i imagine. he's slow and can't jump worth a damn, but he stands just short of 7 feet tall, and should be able to pull down more than 6-7 rebounds a game. reef, at 6'10" and 245 lbs, is no slouch when it comes to size and strength. he may not be as powerful as guys like amare stoudemire or elton brand, but that's still no excuse. he has no problem banging down low on offense. he shouldn't. he's a helluva post player. but i would like to start seeing the same energy and intensity down low on the defensive end. at least compete for boards. box out. try and get position. bully the other power forwards around until they no longer want to challenge you for defensive rebounds. that's what its all about.
why do you all think ben wallace is such a terrific rebounder despite an obvious disadvantage in height? he's a beast-and-a-half, that's why. he gets angry when he goes up for boards. he's pissed off all the time on the court. you can tell...and its scary. i wouldn't want to try and out-muscle a guy like ben wallace for a board. you might get hurt doing so. that fear is one of the main components of ben wallace's rebounding game, and its not to be underestimated. reef's never gonna be as passionate as ben wallace when it comes to rebounding, but i'd like to see more effort. the more your opponents think that they are not gonna be able to rebound over you, the more rebounds your gonna get. much of the rebounding game is based on size, and that's a fact...but bonzi will tell you that there's more to it than just that.
our premier bigs need to rebound better. that leaves two names, realistically speaking: brad miller and shareef abdur rahim. reef deserves no free pass. and the completely overblown "why does miller get a free pass?" position isn't gonna cut it. miller doesn't get a free pass, on this board or anywhere else, i imagine. he's slow and can't jump worth a damn, but he stands just short of 7 feet tall, and should be able to pull down more than 6-7 rebounds a game. reef, at 6'10" and 245 lbs, is no slouch when it comes to size and strength. he may not be as powerful as guys like amare stoudemire or elton brand, but that's still no excuse. he has no problem banging down low on offense. he shouldn't. he's a helluva post player. but i would like to start seeing the same energy and intensity down low on the defensive end. at least compete for boards. box out. try and get position. bully the other power forwards around until they no longer want to challenge you for defensive rebounds. that's what its all about.
why do you all think ben wallace is such a terrific rebounder despite an obvious disadvantage in height? he's a beast-and-a-half, that's why. he gets angry when he goes up for boards. he's pissed off all the time on the court. you can tell...and its scary. i wouldn't want to try and out-muscle a guy like ben wallace for a board. you might get hurt doing so. that fear is one of the main components of ben wallace's rebounding game, and its not to be underestimated. reef's never gonna be as passionate as ben wallace when it comes to rebounding, but i'd like to see more effort. the more your opponents think that they are not gonna be able to rebound over you, the more rebounds your gonna get. much of the rebounding game is based on size, and that's a fact...but bonzi will tell you that there's more to it than just that.
nbrans
All-Star
Padrino said:
Yeah, that pretty much sums it up, Padrino, nice post. I may quibble on the relative differences between Reef and KT night in night out, but there's no question that in January, when KT was at his best, the Kings were at their best on the boards, and that was no accident. Reef and Miller are probably the guys who underachieve relative to their ability, and they need to step it up if the Kings are going to be serious.
Padrino said:
I think Ben's hairdo, the blown up afro look, actually contributes to the mean and hungry look. He looks to me like he's liable to just go primal any moment - and he gets a look in his eyes that would look silly if someone like Brad tried it, for example.
In the case of Big Ben, I honestly think attitude and appearance do have a impact - even if only subconsciously - on some opponents.
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Rome
Guest
BMiller52 said:
how bout you take some time to look at the number of minutes between the two??
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I'm not sure how people can still miss this:
Brad rebs/48 = 10.0
Reef rebs/48 = 8.8
Neither deserves a gold star. Not even a puke green star. But of the two underacheivers Brad is clearly better.
Brad rebs/48 = 10.0
Reef rebs/48 = 8.8
Neither deserves a gold star. Not even a puke green star. But of the two underacheivers Brad is clearly better.
R
Rome
Guest
KG hurry up and come to sacramento so we won't have any problems on defense or rebounding.
R
Rome
Guest
Bricklayer said:
I agree Brick except that i think Miller should be getting a little more then that because of his height.
Did they become perfect since I went to class this evening?cdep73 said:
venom_7
Starter
Kamehameha said:
Mike Dunleavy. Peja. Zaza Pachulia. Alonzo Mourning.
Seriously though, don't take what Brickie says so seriously. He's (she's?) just frustrated with our lack of production on the boards, as we all are.
I might add that its harder to rebound when your #2 guard steals them all from you. In the Sun's game, Brad jumped up for a rebound and when he was coming down with it, Bonzi grabbed it from above his head. But no excuses for Reef. On some possesions he doesn't even try to get the board.
DaMan
Starter
Let me add something about the game. SAR is surpposed to get more shots attempts and more mins then he is getting right know. he is must likely our best post scorers and is automatic down there, and he is must likely our second or third best defender on the team. Something that would help the team would be to stop shooting so many damm jumpers and giving it down low to sar.
But when we are talking about his rebounding, it really is disappointing and neither should he get a free pass for it, like any other player on this team. But to say that brick has not been fair to sar compared to other players on the kings team is wrong and shows how long u have been on this board because in the past he has had post on bibby's and brad's lack of d and softness.
And to Bmiller, you are the biggest brad lover on this board. When somebody starts to talk about brad's softness, lack of rebounding skills for a 7 FOOTER, or something that is competely true or untrue about him u are must likely the first person to protect him or makeup exuses for him. But when one of those SAR fans start doing the samething or comparing sar and brad, thats when u consider it wrong to protect a player and then you either bash sar or his fans. Could you not be a homer for one second.
But when we are talking about his rebounding, it really is disappointing and neither should he get a free pass for it, like any other player on this team. But to say that brick has not been fair to sar compared to other players on the kings team is wrong and shows how long u have been on this board because in the past he has had post on bibby's and brad's lack of d and softness.
And to Bmiller, you are the biggest brad lover on this board. When somebody starts to talk about brad's softness, lack of rebounding skills for a 7 FOOTER, or something that is competely true or untrue about him u are must likely the first person to protect him or makeup exuses for him. But when one of those SAR fans start doing the samething or comparing sar and brad, thats when u consider it wrong to protect a player and then you either bash sar or his fans. Could you not be a homer for one second.
DaMan said:
I only do it when they do it first. I like SAR, he's a good person and a good offensive player. He's not even a bad post defender. He IS a bad rebounder, worse than Brad. Brad is a bad rebounder, and he's a bad defender, but he's not as bad as Reef on the boards.
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