Grades v. Sonics 05/03

[Zyphen]

#1 Thanks for calling me out.
#2 I think I built mycredibility around here that I don't wear any player "lens". I will blindely defend any player on this team when they are being singled out.
#3 Are you telling me that picking up 5 PFs and playing agreassive like he did tonight is not a sign of good defending?

I'm off to clean my lenses.

Singled out for what? An A?

I wasn't challenging your credibility. And you use the term rather loosely because credibility is usually applied to factual claims (like say if you give out second-hand info on player quotes). We're arguing over pure opinion. I was challenging your assertion that he played good defense. He played defense well enough that I don't think he should be docked imaginary player grade points for it.

The #3 is funny. By that logic, any scrub can come in, pick up 5 fouls on Shaq, and therefore, has played great defense. It may or may not mean he played aggressively. Because I watched how he played and how he picked up his fouls, I am confident in saying he was aggressive. It's not because I looked at his stats and saw he had 5 fouls which is not really an indicator of anything interesting.

 

[Venom]

Well, we will never know. But as I said they (Skinner or Tag) certainly could not have done much worse. Miller was gassed. He threw the ball away two times in close succession and he just couldn't rebound, but he could however, get frustrated and then foul. I do not blame Miller either, he was trying to play coming back from a major injury and you cannot expect him to have enough gas to play all those minutes in such a physical game.

You do realize that every offensive possession was initiated with a high screen by Miller. That screen loses its effectiveness with any of our big men off the bench as that cannot shoot/pass/drive anywhere near as well as Miller. In the 4th quarter in an elimination game you ride your best 5, into the sunset if you have to.

 

[Pollardo!]

Ummm...

Adelman a BIG FAT F.. we could have won this freaking game. We are getting them to miss and then their big guys are just reaching over Miller and getting the rebound..Unbelievable!

How does the Sonics reaching over Brad on the boards equate to an 'F' for Adelman? Was he supposed to sub in Tag, or what?

I for one, love our coach- Sure I wish that he would get these guys a little more fired up some nights, but like many of you have said when you're making 1-10 million dollars a year to play a game, you oughta be more passionate and excited than Dom Deluise at a Krispy Kreme.

The Kings' problem lies not with the coach, but with the fundamental flaws in the team- beginning with a lack of height.

 

[PejaFanatic]

As many points as Peja scored, I wouldn't give him an A. He was slow to the ball all night and his help defense absolutely stunk. Plus, outside of that one three he was bricking it and forcing it in the 4th.

Yes he couldn't buy a hoop in the 4th but no way was he forcing it. His looks were within the offense. If he is wide open, he has to shoot it.

I would have a problem it he was shying away but he didn't.

 

[ImaKingsFan]

How does the Sonics reaching over Brad on the boards equate to an 'F' for Adelman? Was he supposed to sub in Tag, or what?

I for one, love our coach- Sure I wish that he would get these guys a little more fired up some nights, but like many of you have said when you're making 1-10 million dollars a year to play a game, you oughta be more passionate and excited than Dom Deluise at a Krispy Kreme.

The Kings' problem lies not with the coach, but with the fundamental flaws in the team- beginning with a lack of height.

Actually RA is being paid a tidy little sum to motivate them. And when I looked over at the bench I actually saw some height and some dudes who can rebound.
I wager they couldn't have rebounded any less.

 

[kennadog]

Last game 4th qtr he was pathetic. This game, his shot was not going in in the 4th(except for that clutch 3), but he was agressive and he was trying. Not pathetic by any means.

Thank you. Its like Webber haters. No matter what Peja does some people are going to dump all over him. As for being slow to the ball, I disagree. He was very aggressive and made that incredible baseline save on that one play. And when he knew his legs were gone, he didn't just jack up jumpers, he drove the ball and got to the line.

Too bad Brad's leg wasn't 100%, but he did NOT totally suck tonight. He had the most assists on the team with 11 and at least scored decently with 14 points, the 3rd highest scorer on the team tonight.

Brad, Peja and Bibby were the best players out there tonight (Mo was #4) and Adelman would have been stupid not to give them the chance to win this. They almost did. What they needed was more from the bench (earlier in the game) besides Mo. (Actually it was almost a disaster when Adelman went to the bench in the 1st half.)

 

[vj9999]

Singled out for what? An A?

I wasn't challenging your credibility. And you use the term rather loosely because credibility is usually applied to factual claims (like say if you give out second-hand info on player quotes). We're arguing over pure opinion. I was challenging your assertion that he played good defense. He played defense well enough that I don't think he should be docked imaginary player grade points for it.

The #3 is funny. By that logic, any scrub can come in, pick up 5 fouls on Shaq, and therefore, has played great defense. It may or may not mean he played aggressively. Because I watched how he played and how he picked up his fouls, I am confident in saying he was aggressive. It's not because I looked at his stats and saw he had 5 fouls which is not really an indicator of anything interesting.

Credibility was a wrong word to use. This is a board of opinions and things I say are just that opinions. I'm not aruing, I am just defending a gu who played one of his best games this season and along with Mike gave it his all to try to give us a chance to playe game 6.

Lewis is not Shaq and Peja defended Lewis very well this series.

No argument, just opinions.

 

[Venom]

Actually RA is being paid a tidy little sum to motivate them. And when I looked over at the bench I actually saw some height and some dudes who can rebound.
I wager they couldn't have rebounded any less.

NBA coaches are not paid to motivate professional basketball players. Motivation comes from internal pride and desire, and an external responsiblity to the fans and owners who pay your check. This isn't college or junior high or whatever.

 

[ImaKingsFan]

You do realize that every offensive possession was initiated with a high screen by Miller. That screen loses its effectiveness with any of our big men off the bench as that cannot shoot/pass/drive anywhere near as well as Miller. In the 4th quarter in an elimination game you ride your best 5, into the sunset if you have to.

Evans was not on the short list as one of our best 5 and he wasnt given a chance to play the entire series until Cat went out with an injury and look how big he played tonight>

 

[ImaKingsFan]

NBA coaches are not paid to motivate professional basketball players. Motivation comes from internal pride and desire, and an external responsiblity to the fans and owners who pay your check. This isn't college or junior high or whatever.

Actually that is a part of a coaches job no matter what level.

 

[kennadog]

Venom is right. Neither Skinner, not Tag are any threat to shoot from the high post and neither can pass like Brad as Brad certainly proved tonight.

 

[vj9999]

Good grades Brick. Thanks for doing it all season long. Now take few months off.

 

[ImaKingsFan]

Venom is right. Neither Skinner, not Tag are any threat to shoot from the high post and neither can pass like Brad as Brad certainly proved tonight.

I am not dogging BRAD.. why not Miller and Tag together. WE NEEDED rebounds badly in the 4th. We made the stop and instead of getting the rebound and going down to even it up the Sonics got the second chance and almost everytime scored. That was killing us.

 

[kennadog]

Actually that is a part of a coaches job no matter what level.

Napear and Lamb were discussing that. Whether you like Lamb or not he did play pro sports. He said if people think coaches are giving fire 'em up speaches to grown men in the locker room, they are sadly mistaken. Doesn't happen.

 

[kennadog]

Actually after a couple of really good games, KT seemed timid tonight. Was sub par on shooting and rebounding. We could have used rebounding from him and he's not too bad a passer. Maybe Adelman thought he'd get going somehow.

 

[Venom]

Brick, I disagree with one part of Mo's grade. He didn't get flat beat by Ray in my opinion. He funneled Ray towards the help, like he is supposed to, and avoided the ticky-tack fouls the refs have been calling on him. You don't want to put Ray on the line if you can avoid it. I honestly thought he did his job, and Miller and Peja failed him by not rotating quickly enough.

 

[ImaKingsFan]

Napear and Lamb were discussing that. Whether you like Lamb or not he did play pro sports. He said if people think coaches are giving fire 'em up speaches to grown men in the locker room, they are sadly mistaken. Doesn't happen.

I am glad one man can speak for every locker room in pro sports in the country.
I have read about coaches using pyschologists, former players, among other tools to motivate their teams.

 

[Venom]

Evans was not on the short list as one of our best 5 and he wasnt given a chance to play the entire series until Cat went out with an injury and look how big he played tonight>

Yeah, Evans stepped up, props to him. But Cat is still better and a much more lethal weapon offensively, especially when you need to manufacture shots in a stagnant offense. No NBA coach is going to pull a veteran for a rookie they used sparingly during the season. Not going to happen.

 

[Zyphen]

Actually that is a part of a coaches job no matter what level.

I agree. But motivation has to start with the player. The coach has to already have some inner fire to work with. Some are better than others, like Rudy T. or Phil Jackson. The rest make up for their (relative) lack of motivational skills through meticulous planning (see Van Gundys).

It's a gamble to go out and find a better motivator. I'd rather hang my hat on some tangible improvements such as a defensive system. I don't think RA is that bad a motivator and a few of the players would be difficult for any coach to get something consistent from. You can't teach heart. I think you can focus it though.

 

[kennadog]

I am glad one man can speak for every locker room in pro sports in the country.
I have read about coaches using pyschologists, former players, among other tools to motivate their teams.

And you know that Adelman doesn't? And Adelman, ET, TR Dunn, and Petrie are all former players.

 

[Venom]

I am glad one man can speak for every locker room in pro sports in the country.
I have read about coaches using pyschologists, former players, among other tools to motivate their teams.

Alright, I'll call: what coaches and when?

What is Rick's motivational tool here? Is he going to make Brad run wind sprints for not rebounding? Or make him stay after practice (next year) to work on boxing out? Get serious dude. They're grown men and professionals. If they need Rick to motivate them then they already lost.

Hey, maybe we can hire Herm Edwards, he gives great speeches to the media.

 

[ImaKingsFan]

And you know that Adelman doesn't? And Adelman, ET, TR Dunn, and Petrie are all former players.

Do I have a target on my back? I NEVER said that he didn't.. if you read all the posts you would see how motivation got thrown in the thread..sheesh

I was responding to post #33. Everyone doesn't have to be so ready to attack a post without reading all of them.. And I have never not one time called for him to be fired. But I do think it is allowed to give your opinion if you think he blew one.

 

[swisshh]

He helped there as much as anyone elso on the team. Maybe he didn't have a perfect gam, but anytime Peja show up in a playoff game and puts up 38 points and defends above average he deserves the highest grade.

Yes, he helped there as much as most of the team did, which was poorly and ineffectively.

I know he scored major points, but every replay on every crucial defensive lapse showed him watching a Sonic getting a layup or watching the ball being rebounded by someone farther from the ball than he was. It's just frustrating.

 

[loopymitch]

Pretty good grades Brick. I think Darius should have been a little lower. He didn't contribute while he was on the court and I'd go with B+ for peja.

 

[Zyphen]

Alright, I'll call: what coaches and when?

What is Rick's motivational tool here? Is he going to make Brad run wind sprints for not rebounding? Or make him stay after practice (next year) to work on boxing out? Get serious dude. They're grown men and professionals. If they need Rick to motivate them then they already lost.

Hey, maybe we can hire Herm Edwards, he gives great speeches to the media.

Ever see a pre-game, timeout, or halftime huddle?

Larry Brown always emphasizes that the Pistons are defending champs.

Rick Carlisle should write a book on the subject.

Popovich.... errr.... he's more of a yeller than a motivator.

Avery Johnson (same style he used when he was a player, still can't believe he's a coach)

Even Jim O'brien, in his incompetent way, tried to motivate his players into "sending a message" to the defending champs, Pistons.

 

[ImaKingsFan]

Alright, I'll call: what coaches and when?

What is Rick's motivational tool here? Is he going to make Brad run wind sprints for not rebounding? Or make him stay after practice (next year) to work on boxing out? Get serious dude. They're grown men and professionals. If they need Rick to motivate them then they already lost.

Hey, maybe we can hire Herm Edwards, he gives great speeches to the media.

I am not a dude. You are jumping all over me about motivation and all I said was it was a part of his job as a coach. I guess I missed your best seller about Coaching. Is it still in print>?

Phil Jackson for one...

 

[Venom]

Ever see a pre-game, timeout, or halftime huddle?

Larry Brown always emphasizes that the Pistons are defending champs.

Rick Carlisle should write a book on the subject.

Popovich.... errr.... he's more of a yeller than a motivator.

Avery Johnson (same style he used when he was a player, still can't believe he's a coach)

Even Jim O'brien, in his incompetent way, tried to motivate his players into "sending a message" to the defending champs, Pistons.

Which is all flippant stuff said by all coaches. "Don't let them embarrass us on our home floor". Of course Rick throws that kind of stuff out. But if grown men really need to hear it, that's disappointing. You ever wonder why college coaches fail miserably in the NBA? You can't scream at guys in this league and demean them. Most make more money than the coach, and they all have a bigger ego than the coach.

 

[Vlad]

Yeah, Evans stepped up, props to him. But Cat is still better and a much more lethal weapon offensively, especially when you need to manufacture shots in a stagnant offense. No NBA coach is going to pull a veteran for a rookie they used sparingly during the season. Not going to happen.

I actually like Evans better than Cat in almost every aspect of the game. Evans is younger, more athletic, plays much better defense, and fits the Kings offensive style much better than Mobley. Cat forces too many shots, and doesn't ever seem to look for the open man.

I don't think Mobley will be back next year.

 

[Alacron]

Yea, RA should've taken Brad out and put in Tag.

Brilliant!!!

What was he thinking???

I would have.

Or, leave Brad in at PF and put Tag in alongside him.
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[Alacron]

I actually like Evans better than Cat in almost every aspect of the game. Evans is younger, more athletic, plays much better defense, and fits the Kings offensive style much better than Mobley. Cat forces too many shots, and doesn't ever seem to look for the open man.

I don't think Mobley will be back next year.

I agree on all counts.

Don't get me wrong, Mobley is a good player, but he's not a good fit for us. Getting him for Christie was a good deal; hopefully we can sign and trade Mobley for someone who can help us more.
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