Grades v. Rockets 11/23

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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Peja ( B+ ) -- not a dominant game, but one of his most effective offensive games of the season through three quarters. Started out as an afterthought as the rest of the team was going well early, but as the game wore on, the rest of the guys fell off and it was up to Peja to carry us in the third. Fell off down the stretch when the bench guys carried us. But didn't feel it was so much because Peja was doing his shrinking violet thing as it was that our bench guys were so hot that Peja wasn't really needed again. Shooting was on -- but the ones he did miss he missed in ugly fashion -- airballs, shots barely scraping the rim. Odd game that way, hit either nothing but net or looked like me shooting in the backyard after Thanksgiving dinner. Rebounding...err...I'm going to try to ignore that problem for a night because he had a generally good game. Let's just say our PGs outrebounded him 17-2 and let it go at that. Early defense wasn't great, but he got stronger as the game went on, and rose to the ocassion late when called upon to guard Tracy McGrady with Doug out of the game to make room for the hot shooting BJax.
Webber ( D ) -- started out the game with lively legs playing a strong team game, and taking good interior shots. But he was having trouble converting, good shots or not. And it was all downhill from there. Kept on missing and missing, and got frustrated and started forcing. Worse yet, despite the lively legs, wasn't having much impact on the boards. Did wise up in the mid third quarter after getting to 3/15 and quit shooting -- was looking exclusively to pass after that point, and the last couople of shots were heaves up against the shot clock. But his passing had little impact tonight either. Was setting people up, but not for great wide open looks. Defense, however, was pretty good -- neither Houston PF had any impact at all.
Miller ( B- ) -- was having a hell of a time with Yao all night long, but hung in there and battled, and down the stretch it was Brad who got the better of the battle. Finally figured Yao out a bit on defense, and smart passing on offense helped offset some struggles he was having finishing arouond the hoop. Lost his cool in the third quarter as the whole team began to go into complain-to-the-refs-on-every-non-call-meltdown. But he came back much more settled after that, and in the 4th it was all about business. Big three point play in the final two minutes, and forced a turnover by yao down the stretch too. Grade is lower because he wasn't effective on the boards, and was getting worked over for most of the game by Yao. But by the end of the game I felt pretty good about his contribution.
Christie ( B ) -- was playing a good all around game through three quarters, and was doing a nice job of harassing McGrady. But TMac began to figure him out in the third quarter, and with Bobby exploding in the 4th, Adelman made the choice to counter Mcgrady with the more explosive player rather than try to contain him with Doug. Overall a solid effort and contributed in a lot of ways, but the game was won with him ont he bench for the most part.
Bibby ( B- ) -- shot never looked smooth tonight, and he missed open three after open three that could have busted the game open for us. And in the first half in particular, was blowing defensive assignments and leaving the Houston guards wide open on the perimeter for uncontested three point bombs. But tried to make up of all of that by willingly swinging the ball on offense, and by wading back in amongst the trees to give us a real nice boost on the boards -- led the entire team with 9 rebounds.
BJax ( A ) -- started out the game hot -- finally figured out that if his shot is out of rhythm, then the correct counter is to start attacking the rim. Tough inside shots but they went in typical Bobby fashion. Cooled down in the middle part of the game, and missed a long string of shots. but jsut when you thought he was sliding back into his slump, he erupted with a monster 4th quarter where he and Songaila carried us back into the game and the lead. Hit three huge threes to hold us close in the early 4th, and grabbed big reouond after big rebound down the stretch. He and Mike combined for 17 rebs on the game. :eek:
Songaila ( A- ) -- in the first half might have actually been the weakest of our bench players, although he wasn't bad. But in the fourth quarter Darius came in for a struggling Webb and gave us a HUGE boost. Not only doing the playing within himself things that Darius can do -- hitting the open shots, hustling. But also making smart passes and defensive rotations. He and Bobby carried us through much of the 4th. Great to see the bench show up. If there was a nit, it is that he failed to even grab a single rebound for us tonight, which will catch up to us sooner or later. But he was a key component of our victory tonight, so that's just a footnote to his excellent effort tongiht.
Ostertag ( B+ ) -- Tag's most effective effort of the season so far resulting in his most minutes of the year too. Did the things he can do -- posed a big obstacle down low --- once reached right over the top and blocked Yao's shot. not an easy task. Also intimidated cutters, set big picks, and grabbe d a big o-board. Still not rebounding like he is capable of, but tonight he looked like the meat and potatoes center we had hoped we were signing this summer.
Barnes ( B ) -- fine little 2nd quarter stint by Matt. Came back and joined the work on the boards, and played solid defense once more. he's got more to his game than that, but those are the things we need righ now, and he's giving us a few minutes of them every night.

Adelman ( B+ ) -- well, 5-0 on the homestand and all of sudden things are looking a lot brighter. Finally got the guys to gang rebound (albeit vs. a poor rebounding team), and the bench finally pulled itself together. Rick stuck with them for longer minutes too. Hopefully a sign for the future. Two psosible nits would be 1) pulling Darius for Webb late in the game was the safe move. I think 9/10 coaches make it. But there is always the chance there for a backfire. Fortuntely Webb played withing himself down the stretch, and while he did nothing great, he did not press things and mess anything up either. 2) thought that Rick might have come with quicker and harder double teams to get the ball out of Yao and TMac's hands. Let tyronne Lue try to beat you. Still, overall a good effort, and an encouraging one in several ways we've been concerend about (rebounding, bench play). We've still got some stuff to prove -- we squeaked by on these homesetand wins, and now have to go establish ourselves on the road. But just like last year the early homseatnd made all the difference for us -- we righted the ship. Started working on weaknesses. Overall a success with hope for the future.
 
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Even though Webb didn't do well shooting the ball I thought he was a good leader in the game by involving the other guys and knowing when to step away from being the the focus of the play. D is little harsh. Maybe a C-.
 
Bibby (B) Did'nt shoot well but made up for it on the boards with hustle. Almost had a triple double.

Christe (B) Had a good game on both sides of the court tonight. Disrupted a couple of the Rocket's plays late in the game. Couldn't slow down TMac, but not many can.

Stojakovic (B+) Played well on offense, but may have forced a couple shots. Still needs to pick up on his rebounding. Played some decent D on TMac.

Webber (D) Bah.. killing my fantasy team. Couldn't get anything going tonight. Made his FTs though.

Miller (B) Had a solid all around game. Missed an easy dunk and got T'ed up. Played some of his best defense on Yao late in the game.

Jackson (A-) Came out hot then went ice cold. Made back to back 3's which gave the lead back to the Kings late in the game. Boarded pretty damn well for a back up PG.

Songalia (C) Made his open shots. Starting to become a solid 7th man off the bench.

Ostertag (C+) Starting to round into form. His big body is filling up the lane nicely on defense as well as on offense, like when he cleared up the lane late in the quarter when Pedja came slashing in for a lay up.

Barnes (INC) Nice stint though, rebounded and scored.

Laker fan at the Kings/Rocket game (F) WTH you doing at the game..
 
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SacTownKid said:
Even though Webb didn't do well shooting the ball I thought he was a good leader in the game by involving the other guys and knowing when to step away from being the the focus of the play. D is little harsh. Maybe a C-.
He was a "leader" in the final few minutes of the fourth by finally not doing anything, and stopped being so selfish. That's not much to praise somebody about.
 
Good grades, other than Adelman.

The decision to put our worst, most selfish and lethargic player (for the night) in to replace our best and most energetic player was retarded at worst, inexpliciable at best.

Song carried us for a stretch in the fourth, and was big on both ends of the court. He was outhustling everybody, and making big plays, under limited touches, making the most out of every opportunity. The guy could do no wrong. Replacing him with a guy who held the ball for much too long, didn't pass, stagnated the team, and missed 80% of his shots is not a good idea.

Webber worked out in the end in the sense that he didnt' screw anytin gup. Songaila was playing FAR beyond that level.
 
Brick you were overly Kind to Pedja... Id give him a B thanks to good D against T Mac. Overly hard on Brad. Ok he blew some sasy buckets and Yao did score 30 points on him, but Yao had to work for most of those. Brad boxed out well hence the Gaurds amazing rebound numbers. BUT Imove him up to a full B if not a B+ based on BIG defensive stops on yao, not getting a lot of foul calls and despite (maybe beceause of) his shooting problems took the ball straight to the hoop in the cluth creating a 3 point play that really helped turn the game.

Mad D... Dang you are a tough grader!
 
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I don't know how you can second guess a win. A win is a win bottom line

Re: Webb--I guess for some folks its all or nothing and nothing else. Whatever floats your boat.:rolleyes:
 
ReinadelosReys said:
I don't know how you can second guess a win. A win is a win bottom line

Re: Webb--I guess for some folks its all or nothing and nothing else. Whatever floats your boat.:rolleyes:
And I was just getting ready to post a note saying that I thought it was incredibly refreshing for some of the more learned fans on the board to discuss Webb's bad game. It doesn't make him a bad player, any more than it makes Peja a bad player when his game is off, or BJax, Christie or Bibby for that matter.

I think we'd have far fewer repetitive threads on the boards if fans of both players (and others) could agree that sometimes their favorites don't play well instead of being defensive of every critical comment. The comments don't make somebody a hater, they make them thinking rational fans instead of player homers. :o

Critical is not always a bad thing!

Goooo Kings!


Just my two cents.
 
I'm not saying that he had a good game. He was bad. He had a bad game is just about every facet of the game. But for people to make some of these comments-and mind you I am listening to the radio as well-its just a little mindboggling to me. Its like there's no middle ground-he either plays well and a) people sing his praises b) just don't say anything else OR he plays badly and he's the worst player in the L. It shouldn't be like that, it certainly isn't for other players.

I do not identify my self as a "Chris Webber supporter". I consider myself a supporter of the Sacramento Kings. Yes, Webb is probably my favorite player in the entire NBA, but I have never let, or at least have always tried to not let it, get in my way of my, as a fan, anaylsis of this team.
 
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Webber got some boos... But this time he deserved them... There was a stint where he was just throwin up everything that came his way... A W is a W though, and I'll take it any way the Kings can get it... 7-4!!!
 
Mad D said:
Laker fan at the Kings/Rocket game (F) WTH you doing at the game..
LMAO there was a lakers fan there tonight??? HAHAHAHAHA!!! what a LOSER! i would have heckled him to DEATH if had been at the game and saw him. oh that is too funny!!!
 
ReinadelosReys said:
I'm not saying that he had a good game. He was bad. He had a bad game is just about every facet of the game. But for people to make some of these comments-and mind you I am listening to the radio as well-its just a little mindboggling to me. Its like there's no middle ground-he either plays well and a) people sing his praises b) just don't say anything else OR he plays badly and he's the worst player in the L. It shouldn't be like that, it certainly isn't for other players.
Don't make me bring out the poor beaten dead horse issue of Peja and the hundred plus threads about him being the spawn of Satan, please? :D

I know we can't help it, we each have certain styles of play we prefer to watch over others. Sometimes it's a physical attraction to the player (either his style of play, or his charming smile or his hairless armpits...:confused: ). Or it's because we identify with somebody we see as an underdog being attacked and so we want to defend him. It's human nature but if we could all just accept that these guys make mistakes, don't play perfect ball, and admit those negatives, we'd probably ALL (or almost all) celebrate their successes in a more unified manner. It is, after all, about the Kings, right? And sometimes the Kings have players who don't advance the team's best interests for whatever reason! Doesn't mean that the next time out they won't do better!
 
SacKings384 said:
Webber got some boos... But this time he deserved them... There was a stint where he was just throwin up everything that came his way... A W is a W though, and I'll take it any way the Kings can get it... 7-4!!!
I guess that's the problem. I agree that Webb was poor tonight, and I love the guy. I was just telling my husband tonight that I think the team is well balanced right now in that players can have "off" nights, but the team can pull it off. B-Jax (who I also love) finally had a great game, but the team has been winning without him. Pedja was subpar in many games, Bibby hasn't always played great, etc... but, we are doing okay after a rough beginning. My problem is that when Webb has an off night people start booing. I haven't seen this happen to any other player, and I don't think it's right. I have off days, my husband has off days, co-workers have off days, and as partners or teammates we pick up the slack and move on. Why boo Webber on an off day when he has been incredible on some days when no one else stepped up to the plate??? Basketball isn't about how ONE player plays, it's about a team. Otherwise it would be, like, bowling or something!?

Anyway, enough from me. I just don't like the booing. I think it's counterproductive, and that it detracts from supporting our team AS A TEAM, rather than as a group of individuals.
 
love_them_kings said:
My problem is that when Webb has an off night people start booing. I haven't seen this happen to any other player, and I don't think it's right. I have off days, my husband has off days, co-workers have off days, and as partners or teammates we pick up the slack and move on. Why boo Webber on an off day when he has been incredible on some days when no one else stepped up to the plate??? Basketball isn't about how ONE player plays, it's about a team.
some wise words right there
 
Kings are winning their games in the final quarter. That's a good sign. I can't wait till everyone is on the same page though. One day Peja has a good game, One day Webb, the next Brad and so on and so forth. It's taking forever.
 
kingskings! said:
Don't make me bring out the poor beaten dead horse issue of Peja and the hundred plus threads about him being the spawn of Satan, please? :D

I know we can't help it, we each have certain styles of play we prefer to watch over others. Sometimes it's a physical attraction to the player (either his style of play, or his charming smile or his hairless armpits...:confused: ). Or it's because we identify with somebody we see as an underdog being attacked and so we want to defend him. It's human nature but if we could all just accept that these guys make mistakes, don't play perfect ball, and admit those negatives, we'd probably ALL (or almost all) celebrate their successes in a more unified manner. It is, after all, about the Kings, right? And sometimes the Kings have players who don't advance the team's best interests for whatever reason! Doesn't mean that the next time out they won't do better!
1) Any issues with Peja would probably have to do with his off season "request" and the fall out of that. Other than that, he has long been the "golden boy" of the franchise-could never do wrong.

2) I'm not saying that people can't be critical of players. What I am saying is that with some people there is no middle ground, only two extremes. Heck with some folks there is only one extreme to talk about players-and that goes both ways
 
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Evenstar said:
LMAO there was a lakers fan there tonight??? HAHAHAHAHA!!! what a LOSER! i would have heckled him to DEATH if had been at the game and saw him. oh that is too funny!!!
Yes, even had enough courage to get behind Grant and Jerry to point at his number 8 jersey during a time out
 
ReinadelosReys said:
1) Any issues with Peja would probably have to do with his off season "request" and the fall out of that. Other than that, he has long been the "golden boy" of the franchise-could never do wrong.

2) I'm not saying that people can't be critical of players. What I am saying is that with some people there is no middle ground, only two extremes. Heck with some folks there is only one what to talk about them
Neither 1) or 2) are statements conducive to fan harmony on this board, but that's just my opinion. :D

I have stated in the past that I wasn't happy with things either Peja or Webb said over the summer. I suspect a lot of people aren't happy with either of them. Combine their mutual "airing of dirty laundry" in the off season and you may have one of the reasons folks are having a hard time getting rid of single game tickets this year when in years past you had to either have your own season tickets to get decent seats or "know somebody who knew somebody whose cousin couldn't go to a game that started in 15 minutes" to get a ticket or two. :D Note please that I said ONE of the reasons, their slow start and struggles are two more, high ticket prices are yet another.

Whatever...it was just my opinion and I appreciate the more knowledgeable fans talking equally about good and bad games individual Kings players have and the effect that has on the TEAM's play. The lively discussion and debate of the pros and cons of the way the team plays was one of the first things that drew me to this fan site a looong time ago. I wasn't looking for a place to be a cheerleader but a place to learn more about the game so I could watch it more intelligently as a fan. But that's just me.

I am very happy they won all 5 games at home and I hope it translates to wins on the road. I suppose I should be happy that they've won some games from behind (even though they held sizeable leads in each of those games that they've lost). Should be an interesting season and I hope it's a successful one to boot.

Signed,
A Piksimist ;)
 
kingskings! said:
A: Neither 1) or 2) are statements conducive to fan harmony on this board, but that's just my opinion. :D

B: I have stated in the past that I wasn't happy with things either Peja or Webb said over the summer. I suspect a lot of people aren't happy with either of them. Combine their mutual "airing of dirty laundry" in the off season and you may have one of the reasons folks are having a hard time getting rid of single game tickets this year when in years past you had to either have your own season tickets to get decent seats or "know somebody who knew somebody whose cousin couldn't go to a game that started in 15 minutes" to get a ticket or two. :D Note please that I said ONE of the reasons, their slow start and struggles are two more, high ticket prices are yet another.

C: Whatever...it was just my opinion and I appreciate the more knowledgeable fans talking equally about good and bad games individual Kings players have and the effect that has on the TEAM's play. The lively discussion and debate of the pros and cons of the way the team plays was one of the first things that drew me to this fan site a looong time ago. I wasn't looking for a place to be a cheerleader but a place to learn more about the game so I could watch it more intelligently as a fan. But that's just me.

I am very happy they won all 5 games at home and I hope it translates to wins on the road. I suppose I should be happy that they've won some games from behind (even though they held sizeable leads in each of those games that they've lost). Should be an interesting season and I hope it's a successful one to boot.

Signed,
A Piksimist ;)
A: There can never be complete fan harmony on this board or any other board-its impossible. People think differently, we're human​

B: So have I

C: Again, I have never said that people shouldn't be critical of the team. I have never said that we should just go along thinking these guys are basketball Gods who can do no wrong and can never do anything to hurt the team. I have also never said that we should just be a bunch of "optimists" and completely disregard the negatives of the team. What I have said is that it should be FAIR AND BALANCED all across the board and in terms of every player---or at least as close as it can be. From my vantage point, it isn't. And quite frankly as a fan of the TEAM that ticks me off.

BACK TO THE THREAD: Good grades Brick.
 
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Mr. S£im Citrus said:
Now, that I don't agree with. Webber might have had a bad game, but the Kings still need our support; all of them.
I agree you need to support a player... But he also needs to hear it when he is being selfish... If any of the other players I would expect the same... Notice how Webber started passing after that?
 
Mad D said:
Laker fan at the Kings/Rocket game (F) WTH you doing at the game..
I noticed that, too. Its one thing to be at the game, but to proudly wave your Kobe jersey to the camera at a Kings/Rockets game? How out of place are you??
 
ReinadelosReys said:
C: Again, I have never said that people shouldn't be critical of the team. I have never said that we should just go along thinking these guys are basketball Gods who can do no wrong and can never do anything to hurt the team. I have also never said that we should just be a bunch of "optimists" and completely disregard the negatives of the team. What I have said is that it should be FAIR AND BALANCED all across the board and in terms of every player---or at least as close as it can be. From my vantage point, it isn't. And quite frankly as a fan of the TEAM that ticks me off.​

BACK TO THE THREAD: Good grades Brick.
Reina,

I apologize! I am not intentionally being dense, I promise.

By critical, I did not mean bashing, I meant critical analysis. I meant thinking about the kinds of things Brick and Mad D provide with their grades, and more importantly, by their explanation of WHY they give the individual grades they do. Also, the debate that ensues with others who have greater basketball knowledge than I is very interesting.

I appreciate all that you do by being a great fan who spends far more time than most of us in following the Kings, reporting and transcribing radio interviews and TV interviews that we would never know about if not for you and your dedication to the team.

Thank you for all that you do on this site and with your personal free time to support the Kings, I have no idea how you manage, but as another fan, I thank you for it! :D

May I have one tiny quibble though? I don't appreciate you modifying my posts and then showing it as a quote. Other than that, we're cool as far as I'm concerned! :)

Now....beat L.A.!

And finally, thanks for the grades, the debate, and this site!
 
peja16 said:
The decision to put our worst, most selfish and lethargic player (for the night) in to replace our best and most energetic player was retarded at worst, inexpliciable at best.
What's great about being a fan with tunnel vision is that you can focus on only one quarter of one game, and decide what SHOULD have been done instead of looking at the big picture. I completely agree that Darius played GREAT tonight. And Webber's shot was way off. But as a coach you can't just bench the focal point of your offense because his shot was off. You can't just leave a role player in the game UNTIL he cools off. You can't leave your best rebounder on the bench when a 7 foot 6 center is in the game. Let's say Darius was left in the game, and he just went off for another 10 points. Do you start him on Friday vs. the Lakers? God forbid the coach should take out a player who is playing well. It is so simple minded to say "play the guys who are playing better". There is so much more to think about.

Here's an idea, now that I think about it: We should never have even played Bobby Jackson today ... his shot has been very off, he has taken bad shots, played too much 1-on-1. Instead, Matt Barnes has been playing much better lately. He should be our 6th man off the bench. My point is ... you can't look at 1 game, or one quarter, or in this case 7 minutes of play to determine what to do as an NBA head coach. Adelman knows his players and knows the situations to use them. Sometimes guys have off days shooting the ball. You don't bench them when they do.
 
So how many games in a row is it that Webber has been booed now ? The sad thing is that even though he's been the best player on the Kings for the past few games and people still don't agree with his style of game - something I've been saying for years now. Sacramento fans are not the best fans in the league for no reason.
 
Since when did MrSlimCitrus turn into MikeB? As a Bibby booster I'm glad to see our point guard actually leading the team in assists (even I don't believe that it's entirely because of the nature of our offense that he doesn't set people up more). I know his defense will always be atrocious but comparing tonight to one of his "bad" games I'd consider this slightly more than a "B-" for him.

Oh Yeah, "A+" for our bench. If we get this kind of production from them on a regular basis, then we're back to elite status.
 
I'm actually starting to get a little disappointed in our fans. When I first moved here 4 years ago, what I LOVED about Kings fans were that it was more like a college-type atmosphere than any NBA arena I've been too. Fans were loud throughout the game. They were loud during the intros, loud when the Kings were down, loud when they were up. The decible meters were all the way to the top on the scoreboard quite often. To every game I've been to this year, it's ghostly quiet for 3/4 of the game. Then in the 4th, the fans get into it. I don't know if it's too much success, the expectations are too high, or if no one cares about the regular season anymore. But going to the games is NOWHERE like it was a few years ago.
 
well it hasn't as bad (and probably never will) as the problem with Vince Carter and the Toranto fans. They booed him every possesion and he made remarks to the media saying he doesn't even want to dunk anymore.
 
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