Meh. Not a roster issue. Even if roster is not a perfect fit, the talent is there to be an eigth seed. Even if you believe there is a hole at any one position, there is enough talent to compensate and be an eighth seed. If you're a complete team with all perfect fits and no holes, you're playing for a title. We're not even worried about a title. We just need a coach to pull the talent together and play .500 ball.
[Grades] Grades v. Pelicans 3/7/2016
- Thread starter Bricklayer
- Start date
This is a good example of why succesful coaches who are out of the game don't come back unless they find the right team with established players. Most established coaches don't have the patience to start from the ground up and build a contender. Karl will only play vets because he doesn't want to coach. Even Cousins needs to be coached.
Jeff Van Gundy won't come back for this reason. We should have left Karl alone.
Jeff Van Gundy won't come back for this reason. We should have left Karl alone.
I want to agree with you. And I'm not endorsing tanking. But regardless of the cause we are a team that seems to have the talent to be an 8 seed and instead we have the 8th worst record in the league. This is a huge disparity. When we were approaching .500 and flirting with the playoffs it was easy for me to believe that the right coach could whip them into shape. But we're struggling to get to 30 wins. That's right where most impartial observers predicted we would be by this point in the season. Maybe the talent just isn't as good as we think it is?
I don't know that resigning Rondo helps the Kings get where they need to be. And I'm not sure he'd be a lock to re-sign even if the Kings want him. Carmelo is now publicly lobbying for the guy and I think there will be other interested teams that will drive up the price. I'm not convinced that Rondo is a clearly better option than starting Collison (under a different system of course) and I'm pretty certain Rondo's not better to the degree that it's better to re-sign him than it is to take the $16 -$18 million a year he'll likely ask for and improve some other aspect of the team.
Of course it's hard to say without knowing who the next coach is. But personally I'd strongly consider letting Rondo walk, especially if his price gets driven up. I'd certainly explore trading Rudy, would definitely trade Ben and would consider dealing Koufos, especially if Cole Aldrich opts out and can be had for cheaper. I wouldn't mind exploring what it would take to sign Ryan Anderson but I fear the price tag would get ridiculous quickly. In the draft I'd look at SG options and also at dealing the pick for a role player. In a trade down scenario I'd love to grab Levert. I would hope for a bounce back year for Belinelli as he's not going to net much in trade after this season.
Still, a team of
Collison
new SG
Casspi
WCS
Cousins
With a rebuilt bench with Anderson as the sixth man appeals to me more than rolling out this same squad next season at a much higher price tag. Focus on bringing in role players that move the ball and who can defend.
Karl has done an absolutely awful job this year, but I don't know that a good coach does better by leaps and bounds with the same roster.
Of course it's hard to say without knowing who the next coach is. But personally I'd strongly consider letting Rondo walk, especially if his price gets driven up. I'd certainly explore trading Rudy, would definitely trade Ben and would consider dealing Koufos, especially if Cole Aldrich opts out and can be had for cheaper. I wouldn't mind exploring what it would take to sign Ryan Anderson but I fear the price tag would get ridiculous quickly. In the draft I'd look at SG options and also at dealing the pick for a role player. In a trade down scenario I'd love to grab Levert. I would hope for a bounce back year for Belinelli as he's not going to net much in trade after this season.
Still, a team of
Collison
new SG
Casspi
WCS
Cousins
With a rebuilt bench with Anderson as the sixth man appeals to me more than rolling out this same squad next season at a much higher price tag. Focus on bringing in role players that move the ball and who can defend.
Karl has done an absolutely awful job this year, but I don't know that a good coach does better by leaps and bounds with the same roster.
So let's say there is a shot blocker there to help out. What I see happening is that shot blocker leaves his man to help the player driving to the basket and in return leaves a offensive rebound there for the taking since the players are incapable of switching for one another. Goes right back to the trust factor, either that or just the IQ isn't there. Hell, could be both as far as I'm concerned.
Essentially.
Another failed remake of the roster just means Cousins is two years older and if he decides at that point to force his way out the Kings lose some of their leverage in a trade deal.
But I'd much rather see a competitive team built around him and the Kings make the playoffs next season. I guess after all these years I just don't see that happening.
Another failed remake of the roster just means Cousins is two years older and if he decides at that point to force his way out the Kings lose some of their leverage in a trade deal.
But I'd much rather see a competitive team built around him and the Kings make the playoffs next season. I guess after all these years I just don't see that happening.
The talent just does not mesh. There is talent there, I'm sure there will be some players on this team that other teams will want. They tried it, it didn't work out. Time to move on and try again. I'm not saying revamp the roster, but the trio of Cousins, Rondo and Gay is not a formula for long term success IMO. You obviously don't trade Cousins just yet, so that leaves you with Rondo & Gay to move. Sign and trade Rondo, then trade Gay for defensive role players if possible or another shooter.
I hear you. But to follow this logic is to say coaches can help you win games, but the aren't responsible for losing games. The talent may not be good enough. But I'm convinced that won paper it's good enough and we are not getting the most out of any of our players except the 2 who always have the ball. Cuz and Rondo.
Take a look at the screenshots and make one simple substitution: put WCS in Acy's position.
Potential effects: for some reason the Pelicans actually have Davis turning his back on the play and going up to screen up top. Acy actually ignores him to try to help. So WCS could have done the same thing. the difference then is that as Cole turns that corner, its WCS sliding over and the odds of Cole being able to squirt up a layup through/over that are very low. On the other side of the key Cuz can see that. Now he MAY have instinctually made a msitake and tried to help even with WCS thre. But on the other hand, properly coached (a big ?) to stay home, he might also have see that WCS had that drive covered. Davis is up at the top of the circle screening, and he (Cuz) could afford to stay home on the shooter and maybe even look to pick off a crosscourt pass from Cole headed out in that direction.
My prediction:
1) Rondo and WCS smother Cole along the baseline/point of attack. From the way Cole reacted when Cuz came over I'm not entirely sure the play wasn't drawn up as a drive and kick anyway.
2) with Cuz staying more at home as a giant 7 foot block in the passing lane to the corner, if Cole throws that pass I think there is a reasonable chance Cuz even gets a finger on it, or the pass is off target trying to get over him. If the pass does get there, its a semi-contested three as Cuz recovers rather than the wide open look.
3) Most likely of all, WCS causes Cole to give up the idea of the layup, Cuz in the passing lane causes Cole to give up the idea of the corner three, which leaves the Pels with that action up top where Davis is trying to screen Collison off of...Holiday? Whoever that was. Since Collison is alone up there 1 on 2, I think that's where the pass and the shot goes -- straight on/angle three by whoever, hopefully Collison still in challenging range. Not ideal, and we can still lose on that, but only a third option for the Pels, and lower percentage option than what happened.
P.S. and no BTW, I have no ****ing idea what the hell Collison is doing by that third screenshot with his back entirely turned to his man out at the three point line. So who knows, maybe he doesn't recover because he has no idea what the hell is going on. Maybe there was a pretty cheerleader on the baseline. Dunno.
Potential effects: for some reason the Pelicans actually have Davis turning his back on the play and going up to screen up top. Acy actually ignores him to try to help. So WCS could have done the same thing. the difference then is that as Cole turns that corner, its WCS sliding over and the odds of Cole being able to squirt up a layup through/over that are very low. On the other side of the key Cuz can see that. Now he MAY have instinctually made a msitake and tried to help even with WCS thre. But on the other hand, properly coached (a big ?) to stay home, he might also have see that WCS had that drive covered. Davis is up at the top of the circle screening, and he (Cuz) could afford to stay home on the shooter and maybe even look to pick off a crosscourt pass from Cole headed out in that direction.
My prediction:
1) Rondo and WCS smother Cole along the baseline/point of attack. From the way Cole reacted when Cuz came over I'm not entirely sure the play wasn't drawn up as a drive and kick anyway.
2) with Cuz staying more at home as a giant 7 foot block in the passing lane to the corner, if Cole throws that pass I think there is a reasonable chance Cuz even gets a finger on it, or the pass is off target trying to get over him. If the pass does get there, its a semi-contested three as Cuz recovers rather than the wide open look.
3) Most likely of all, WCS causes Cole to give up the idea of the layup, Cuz in the passing lane causes Cole to give up the idea of the corner three, which leaves the Pels with that action up top where Davis is trying to screen Collison off of...Holiday? Whoever that was. Since Collison is alone up there 1 on 2, I think that's where the pass and the shot goes -- straight on/angle three by whoever, hopefully Collison still in challenging range. Not ideal, and we can still lose on that, but only a third option for the Pels, and lower percentage option than what happened.
P.S. and no BTW, I have no ****ing idea what the hell Collison is doing by that third screenshot with his back entirely turned to his man out at the three point line. So who knows, maybe he doesn't recover because he has no idea what the hell is going on. Maybe there was a pretty cheerleader on the baseline. Dunno.
I don't want 40-16 I want a few more wins. Will it help to watch a few more NBA games. Don't think so. We obviously need something more than 40-16 a game, and something besides better defense although that would sure help. I simply think we should work on all our problems not just Karl, defense, Cuz, roster, etc. All of them and remain open minded.
Cousins seems to be wedded to Sacramento. I cannot say we have made a serious rebuild attempt around Cousins yet. This year was as close as it got. Still, year in year out, the coaches have been inadequate or a major misfit. Even Malone, was green and needed a few years experience. Get a less pacy kind of coach who likes defense and add him to this team and I would say this is the first serious attempt at a rebuild. Of course we can tweak this and that also.
I could barely stand to watch the second half. I didn't watch the post-game, but saw enough on the news to know that Bobby Jackson is right and George Karl is a senile old fool who needs to be put in a home.
I came here today and wasn't at all surprised to see there wasn't even a game thread for last night's game. I can't recall the last time that happened.
Fans are fed up. They're being asked to put out tons of money ahead of time for the final game at STA and for next season while the current product has become for all intents and purposes unwatchable. I feel very sorry for Boogie and I'm truly amazed he hasn't just given up.
It's not worth my time, effort or sanity to watch the games any longer. I already gave up my tickets for April 9, and I'm pretty sure my tickets for opening night at G1C are not going to happen, either.
I cannot do a lot to change what happens with this team but I can AND AM refusing to spend any more money until they make the product worth watching.
One more thing - as far as trying to figure out what's wrong, I'm done. I don't care what's wrong. All I care about is that it's going to need to be FIXED before I return to being an active engaged fan. I have better things to do. I could be outside, for example, waiting for big globs of snow to fall onto my head out of the trees. It feels about the same as watching a Kings game...
I came here today and wasn't at all surprised to see there wasn't even a game thread for last night's game. I can't recall the last time that happened.
Fans are fed up. They're being asked to put out tons of money ahead of time for the final game at STA and for next season while the current product has become for all intents and purposes unwatchable. I feel very sorry for Boogie and I'm truly amazed he hasn't just given up.
It's not worth my time, effort or sanity to watch the games any longer. I already gave up my tickets for April 9, and I'm pretty sure my tickets for opening night at G1C are not going to happen, either.
I cannot do a lot to change what happens with this team but I can AND AM refusing to spend any more money until they make the product worth watching.
One more thing - as far as trying to figure out what's wrong, I'm done. I don't care what's wrong. All I care about is that it's going to need to be FIXED before I return to being an active engaged fan. I have better things to do. I could be outside, for example, waiting for big globs of snow to fall onto my head out of the trees. It feels about the same as watching a Kings game...
I'm taking a break for a while too. Maybe the rest of the season. What's the point in watching these games. I've spent way too many years watching a Kings team that had no shot of making the playoffs and where the only real question was how many lottery balls they'd end up with.
Oh, and just as a side note, there was a game thread for last night:
http://kingsfans.com/threads/kings-pelicans-7-mar-2016-20-00-et-17-00-pt.64762/
though it is telling that it didn't get started until 10 minutes or so after the game tipped off.
Oh, and just as a side note, there was a game thread for last night:
http://kingsfans.com/threads/kings-pelicans-7-mar-2016-20-00-et-17-00-pt.64762/
though it is telling that it didn't get started until 10 minutes or so after the game tipped off.
Everything you're saying here makes sense... but there's a part of me that can't help asking "what's the point?"
And that's not directed at you in any way. I always like reading your opinions, it's just that it all feels so uncomfortably familiar. Normally I would say something like "Let's not get too attached to the idea of drafting a SG. Clearly that's our biggest need, but that shouldn't cause us to overlook superior talent at the other 4 positions if it's on the board". And then I'd probably question whether Ryan Anderson is the right fit for us considering our problems are 90-100% defense this season and he's not an impact player on that end of the floor. And then I'd probably bring up 4 or 5 young players on other rosters who are mostly riding the bench but could be valuable defensive roleplayers for us. They're probably going to be great athletes who can't really shoot and I'm going to say that doesn't matter because we have Cousins and we can piece together enough offense around him from the remaining role-players if the defense is on point. I might even try to think up a couple trades that could get us those players.
But it all just feels like going through the motions. Like I'm Sisyphus and this team is my boulder. Or I'm Bill Murray in Groundhog Day and no matter what happens I wake up tomorrow listening to Sonny and Cher. I'm out of new ideas. We took a pretty good shot this year and got nowhere. I think it's time to lower my expectations to zero and wait to be pleasantly surprised. I'm already there with the Oakland A's and that tends to works out better
And that's not directed at you in any way. I always like reading your opinions, it's just that it all feels so uncomfortably familiar. Normally I would say something like "Let's not get too attached to the idea of drafting a SG. Clearly that's our biggest need, but that shouldn't cause us to overlook superior talent at the other 4 positions if it's on the board". And then I'd probably question whether Ryan Anderson is the right fit for us considering our problems are 90-100% defense this season and he's not an impact player on that end of the floor. And then I'd probably bring up 4 or 5 young players on other rosters who are mostly riding the bench but could be valuable defensive roleplayers for us. They're probably going to be great athletes who can't really shoot and I'm going to say that doesn't matter because we have Cousins and we can piece together enough offense around him from the remaining role-players if the defense is on point. I might even try to think up a couple trades that could get us those players.
But it all just feels like going through the motions. Like I'm Sisyphus and this team is my boulder. Or I'm Bill Murray in Groundhog Day and no matter what happens I wake up tomorrow listening to Sonny and Cher. I'm out of new ideas. We took a pretty good shot this year and got nowhere. I think it's time to lower my expectations to zero and wait to be pleasantly surprised. I'm already there with the Oakland A's and that tends to works out better
It's frustrating, that's for sure. These last two years have been especially painful.
Last year it was because we didn't expect the team to do anything and then after a first game loss against the eventual champions the Kings strung together five in a row against tough competition and we all were surprised to see that there might be something to this team. Then Boogie's viral meningitis and Malone's firing tailspun it into just another disappointing Kings season.
This year it was frustrating because we DID expect the team to do something only to see Portland return one starter and still make the playoffs, Dallas spurned by DJ, scrambling to grab Deron Williams and a few fill in bigs off the scrap heap to play with old man Dirk and make the playoffs. The Rockets essentially carried by Harden, likely making the playoffs. All while the Kings lose like it's any other season.
I just want to have something worth rooting for. And right now I don't. So I'm not going to watch the games.
Last year it was because we didn't expect the team to do anything and then after a first game loss against the eventual champions the Kings strung together five in a row against tough competition and we all were surprised to see that there might be something to this team. Then Boogie's viral meningitis and Malone's firing tailspun it into just another disappointing Kings season.
This year it was frustrating because we DID expect the team to do something only to see Portland return one starter and still make the playoffs, Dallas spurned by DJ, scrambling to grab Deron Williams and a few fill in bigs off the scrap heap to play with old man Dirk and make the playoffs. The Rockets essentially carried by Harden, likely making the playoffs. All while the Kings lose like it's any other season.
I just want to have something worth rooting for. And right now I don't. So I'm not going to watch the games.