[Grades] Grades v. Nuggets 1/25/12

Who would you start at SF next game?

  • Salmons

    Votes: 2 3.8%
  • Garcia

    Votes: 4 7.7%
  • Greene

    Votes: 34 65.4%
  • Outlaw

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Honeycutt

    Votes: 12 23.1%

  • Total voters
    52
  • Poll closed .

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#1
Jeez these are fun.

I apologize to the ladies of the board because the blowout = Girls formula was never supposed to be producing Girls threads every other night. However, one must soldier on. So: Girls!

Boxscore

Salmons ( F! ) -- just F! Yo Keith! Yo Geoff! Are you listening?? F!!!! What is the point exactly? 20 games into a shortened season and the patient is flatlined. There is no pulse. There has been no pulse. And just as it was last time he was here, his particular brand of undeath is catching and sucks the life right out of a team. And yes Geoff, that one's for you since you apparently missed it the first time we had him. In any case, he was terrible again, on both sides of the ball. And its just such a killer. You have a young struggling team against a top opponent, and you know they will make mistakes and are going to have to fight just to hang around, and they have this veteran just getting whipped play after play on both sides of the ball, his man is scoring at will, he's forcing dumb crap the other way, and its just demoralizing. You're fighting to hang 8 back, and suddenly your veteran SF can't move his feet on defense and won't move the ball on offense, and you're down 14 and whatever little belief you may have had begins to waver. John had a grand total of 2 good plays in the whole game. The first was a shaky one actually, coming out of a timeout and going 1 on 1 to hit a jumper -- that alas is his offensive comfort zone. 1 on 1, playing to 15. But of course having done it once, he then gets enouraged to try it some more, and just gets embarrassed and stops the whole offense. Later in the 3rd quarter he would finally hit a feet set three. That was it. Meanwhile basically got whipped in everyway possible by Galinari, including having a 6'10' guy not known for his speed whip him off the dribble, and I'm sorry, but that just wouldn't have happened a few years ago. Once Reke went out near the end of the half, John responded by first forcing a garbage 1 on 1 shot vs Gallinari with no hope, then getting beat by him back the other way for the +1. He started the 3rd quarter by getting a 5 second violation trying to inbound the ball after it looked like Jimmer was the intended target and we had no backups. It was just sincerely not good again. Half a game of 5ps 1reb 1ast while getting torched by a guy who is not an All Star for 23pts 3rebs and 5ast on 8-12 shooting. Oh, and while I suspend my disdain for the PER stat for just a moment, let me note that John is 310th out of 333 qualifying NBA players right now, and aside from the since benched Wesley Johnson, he has the single worst PER of any starter in the entire NBA. No other team starts somebody who has been that unproductive, let alone keeps on doing it. Its insanity. Or more likely front office meddling trying to justify a major mistake.

Alice Eve -- cheesy perhaps, but effective. You'll see more of her in the Star Trek sequel.

Thompson ( C ) -- had the dubious honor of being just less bad than many of teammates. Had a couple of nice takes inside in the early going before our coach, who I think frankly deserves considerable credit for getting us in trouble in this one, pulled him. When he came back we were in freefall and of course Jason teeters on the edge of out of control at the best of times. Well, these weren't them and he was not making good decisons anywhere on the floor after returning in the second. Ironcally we finally FINALLY went back to the largish Cousins, Thompson, Reke trio (albeit flanked by the two rookie midget guards) late in the game, and it was the best we had looked since the first quarter, oddly enough. Off of this I can also say that if Hayes is ready physically, he's going to get his starting job back as Jason appears to have missed his opprtunity for that spot for about the 10th time in his career. P.S. I'm just glad we don't have to fill this spot with that Daly character anymore, who put up another 13pt 18reb 2blk performance tongiht and is averaging 10.9pts 10.9rebs and 2.2 blocks as a starter -- pretty much exactly what he did for us the second half of last year. I hate competent roleplayers like that. Hate 'em. Luckily we know better.

Jessica Biel -- might as well preserve as much of my main list of lovely ladies as I can by taking these suggestions from the peanut gallery. Got a feeling I may need them in the future.

Cousins ( B- ) -- was on the defensive glass from the early going, but out of control trying to initate his offense frorm all the way ot near the three point line. One of those life imitating messageboard things as we just had a, well rather over the top thread onhow he is being used, and here it was staring you rihgt in the face. And it wasn't primarily because of our personnel. It was Smart again, maybe outsmarting himself. When a coach sayd the only thing you can really depend on right now is your facing jumper, then he positions his 280lb center 20 feet from the hoop every play..hey, he has a finisihing problem, but that ain't the answer. Neither he, nor we, are dangerous with him out that far. In close he can overwhelm some teams some of the time but tonight it was ridiculous how often our guarda were driving the ball, then kicking it OUT to our 280lb center, who then had to drive it back inside for hi shot. In any case, he was stuck on the perimeter on offense, and didn't even look like he was trying on defense against Koufos in the early going. Wasn't even moving toward him, and seemed a little unfocused and pciking up more of the loose fouls he has been avoiding. Numbers tonight are somewhat deceptive as his boarding and overall game began to finally settle into a rhythm really at the same time we got completely blown out, and it was a funny thing that in the garabagetime we finally went back to a fullish sized lineup, DeMarcus finally started getting the ball inisde, and he began to beat up the Nuggets in there overwhelming them with his size. Was fun at least to see him explaining to Fareid who the big board dog was as he just bounced him out of the way and snatched balls with the great hands. Nonetheless, while the very strong numbers were the best overall on the team, if you watched the game you wouldn't have been terribly impressed by him until the 4th quarter when the game was long over. Oh BTW, we got killed on the galss again as again DeMarcus was our there all alone.

Josie Maran -- putting the pretty in pretty girl.

Fredette ( B+ ) -- on paper just reading through the boxscore this looks like we had Jason Kapono out there. 5-8 from 3pt land. 1-5 from everywhere else, and not many other numbers. But during the first quarter while we were still competitive, Jimmer was a lot more than a Kapono, and was making a lot of plays all over the court as a good player, not just good shooter Jumped up on one play to steal an inbounds pass almost out of the inbounders hand, and find Reke out ahead for the layup. Nice job on another play hustling to save a ball that was headed back for a backcourt violation. And then there were the threes, where again we found a sweet spot for him getting off the ball while Reke and IT shot passes across the top of the key to him for deep threes. It really does seem to have simplified the game for him, and while this could still just be a hot streak, its more than just the shots falling. Relieved of the resonsibilites of trying to run the team, he just feels a lot more settled and comfortable, and hasn't been getting himself into trouble wiht all the ballhandling and passing errors. Now the flip side of the boxscore not showing how complete the early game was, is that in the end his scoring got padded back up in the garbagetime, as did several of our guys who ended wih decent numbers. After the strong overall first quarter started to miss, and during the decisive 2nd/3rd quarter stretch the Nuggets harrassed him well above the three point circle and he largely just disappeared as the lead exploded. Wasn't until we settled into our garbagetime rhythm with our starters + IT (and -Salmons) that he finally started hitting again to finish with the nice scoring output, so its kinda deceptive. When the Nuggets wanted to take him away, they did. Nonetheless if we can keep him going like this then in a couple of weeks we may finally have some the shooting we were hoping for from a 3-guard rotation with both Thornton and Jimmer able to stretch the defense. My biggest concern about that transition is just going to be that when Jimmer is playing alongside Thornton he is going to have to back over the ball again, and he has really been settling in mostly as a midget shooting guard. Don't want the struggles to return if he's more natural SG than PG, and has to start overthinking and getting his dribble attacked again. Defense tonight was ok BTW. The Nuggets started 2 PGs, which was perfect for him, and we kept him on the old slow one (Miller).

Stacey Dash
 
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#2
Evans ( C- ) -- played a solid first quarter, getting a couple of drives in, doing a solid job in the passing game, and working pretty well with Jimmer and Cousins. Nice feet set three to start the 2nd and had some great assists with dropoffs inside to guys. He was going well, had something like 8pts 5ast, and we were in this game. Everything is looking pretty good...and then things fell apart again. You could see in this one though that the genesis of the problems wasn't Reke, but rather the rest of the team falling flat on its face (and this includes Smart who helped create the situation in the 2nd quarter with terrible substitutions and smallball stupidity that got us axe murdered out there). So midget lineups and grossly incompetent play starts blowing up the Nuggets lead, and THEN you could see that reverberate around and take out Reke's game as well. Started trying to force/create things that just weren't there as we faded, and it only made things worse. In the first half it wasn't forced shtos so much, as even while shooting only 3-9 there was maybe only 1 bad shot in the bunch. But kept on trying to drive into traffic and create things to save us, and just ended up turning things over instead. Then started the third forcing a bad drive as he pressed, and by pressing helped speed our demise. Still wondering about his legs too. Grabbed a very unRekeish zero rebounds this time out, and when forced to play SF kept getting caught as the weakside rebounder in our zone and having guys like Galinari and Fareid just climb his back for boards. And the defense was off too. Kept getting beat backoor multiple times by Brewer. Made a few nice passes in the second half, showing an understanding of how to use the attention he draws to creatre opportunities for others, but it was largley his only second half contribution.

Nina Dobrev

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Bench

Hickson ( C ) -- in the early going scored on a nice pick and roll with Garcia, and got a dunk from Reke, but blowing some good opportunites and it never led anywhere for him. Did get one spectacular block, but as usual no sort of rim protector. Nothing awful here, but nothing much either. And oh, that list of PER stats? JJ is 263rd on it, having just gotten passed by Jimmer and falling back to our 3rd worst. Meaning a few weeks ago we were starting the 263rd and 310th PER guys in the league out of 333. Fascinating.

Kelly Brook

Garcia ( F ) -- another F for us as our veteran SF crew was just breathtakingly bad in this one. Run over by Harington to start the second, and killed us in the few minutes later with back to back airballed threes that both triggered Nuggets fastbreaks as they raced out to an NBA season high 92pts in the paint. Oh BTW Cisco on that PER list? 245th. And when you are 245th on a PER list of 333 and only the 5th worst guy on your team, you know what that means? Means your team sucks.

Bipasha Basu

Greene ( B ) -- you know, I just don't get the way Donte is being used. Again. Old story. Came in, had some nice aggresive rebounds early, looked MUCH better than any other SF on the team, adn then was totally forgotten about as our old incompetent boobs got destroyed at the postion again and we got blown out. Mind you the Nuggets start a 6'10" SF too, whihc is right in Donte's wheelhouse. There is just no coaching excuse for it. Finally got back in late in the third and again looked pretty good. Got a big dunk in the late garbagetime and finsihed second on the whole damn team in rebounding with 6 in only 13min. Coach, some stuff is just obvious, you know?

Diora Bairs -- its really shockling Slim likes this lady. Truly a mystery. What could the common thread be? What could it be? Hmm...must ponder.
 
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#3
Thomas ( B ) -- tough tough thing to grade, and here's why: in the second quarter while the game was still on I thought IT actualy hurt us. He was not so much awful as he was just irrelevant and small. Coach Smart is actaully the guy who hurt us by insiting playing him out there in a variety of midget lineups.. He played and palyed and we sank and sank, and he did nothing. If he had never returned I would have given him maybe a D. But then he gets inserted in the mid third and plays the entire rest of the way in this one as the lead baloons and we are struggling to keep it at 30. And the longer he plays the strong er he gets. He finally starts hitting his shots after half a dozen games of bricks, after we reinserted 4/5 of our starting lineup in the late going he started finding them for assistds, and by the end of this one he's accelerating down the stretch and puts up a good/solid looking 16pts and 6ast, and as always scraps harder than everybody else too. But while it mattered, the Nuggets exploited him and it hurt us. So how do you grade that? Some of these games of his almost remind me of the Sergio Rodriquez phenomenon, where he was great in garbagetime, but never quite proved he could tone it down and help when it mattered.

Larissa Riquelme -- now is that likely to make it less, or more, likely that somebody tries to steal your phone?

Outlaw ( INC ) -- was the tool of Smart's latest smallball ****up in the late 2nd as he played "PF" as the Nuggets pulled away. I don't know who was the primary pitchman in this Outlaw as "PF" nonsense, whether it be Geoff, or Jerry, or Westphal, or whoever. But whoever it is needs to be slapped. Hard. Oh BTW, just to round things out Outlaw is 325th of 333 qualified players in PER to acheive the dubious distinction of being the worst of the worst on a roster with 5 guys in the bottom 100. So SF choices are Donte, the 245th PER guy, the 310th PER guy, or the 325th PER guy. Toughie.

Kayte Christensen -- I feel less compunction about objectifying her now that she is no longer our analyst, because above all she was an excellent bball analyst with a good mind for the game. Oh, and she was hot. :)

Honeycutt ( INC ) -- hey, welcome back to the NBA kid! We're down 30, the people who are supposed to be fans are booing us, and our starting SF just walked off a George Romero set, and may in fact be a true member of the living dead. Or possibly the dead dead. Oh, have fun out there! In his couple of minutes actually looked pretty good, hitting a shot and getting his hands on several balls on defense.

Jim Gray -- and in place of the smart hot girl, we got this. With business moves like that, any question now why the Maloofs went broke? That one's for you ladies to try to balance out all the boobs in this thread.
 
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Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#4
Diora Baird... Diora Baird... Diora Baird... Diora Baird... Diora Baird... Diora Baird... Diora Baird... Diora Baird... Diora Baird... Diora Baird... Diora Baird...
 
#6
I vote for Greene. He can't shoot either, but at least he provides defense. Tired of watching Salmons get kill night in and night out! This team can't seem to catch a break. We now have TWO starters out with Thornton, and Hayes.
 
#8
Stacey Dash...Stacey Dash... Stacey Dash...Stacey Dash... Stacey Dash...Stacey Dash... Stacey Dash...Stacey Dash... Stacey Dash...Stacey Dash... Stacey Dash...Stacey Dash... Stacey Dash...Stacey Dash...

Larissa Riquelme... Larissa Riquelme... Larissa Riquelme... Larissa Riquelme... Larissa Riquelme... Larissa Riquelme... Larissa Riquelme... Larissa Riquelme... Larissa Riquelme... Larissa Riquelme...
 
#11
There might be a pattern here with blowouts against teams that have good SFs...Memphis (Rudy Gay), Denver (Gallinari), New York (Carmelo Anthony). I need to look into this some more...
 
#12
Who would you start at SF next game?

No worse question than another but why do you ask? Small forward was not the problem tonight. The whole team and particularly the starting back court of Evans, Fredette and Salmons were absolutely useless with the ball in the first half when we went down by 23 or so. Catch and shoot? Maybe they can but they acted like they didn't know how. Make a late, poor pass, catch and freeze while deciding what to do, make another late, poor pass, catch and wait and then take a poor, off-balance shot, miss, hesitate, and be late getting back on defense while Denver scores on the fast break. As I sat there, at the game, wondering whether in all the years since the Kings have been here whether I've seen the team be as worthless as this one tonight. We have lots of talent but haven't a clue how to use it. Sad. If our stars, Evans and Cousins, can't learn to play with consistency and keep themselves in the game then trade them for some that can, anyone, I have no suggestions.

Who's to start at SF? Flip a coin as far as I'm concerned. May be it might help if we put the team on a conditioning program so they can run up and down the court with another NBA team.

For anyone who read down this far, I apologize. Go Kings---------------
 
#13
Dunno wtf Smart was thinking tonight. We were down 4 at 37-41 when he put in Outlaw for Greene. That's when Denver took off. Donte wasn't hitting shots, but he was playing defense on Gallinari, rebounding and pushing the ball on rebounds. He ended up +8 for the game.

I saw Outlaw get to the scorers table and thought he was coming in for Evans who hadn't had a rest. I was in total shock when Donte went out instead.
 
#15
I have a girl for you all. Stare at the dots on her nose for 30 seconds then look up at your presumably white white or ceiling. Then blink once or twice.



 
#16
Who would you start at SF next game?

No worse question than another but why do you ask? Small forward was not the problem tonight. The whole team and particularly the starting back court of Evans, Fredette and Salmons were absolutely useless with the ball in the first half when we went down by 23 or so. Catch and shoot? Maybe they can but they acted like they didn't know how. Make a late, poor pass, catch and freeze while deciding what to do, make another late, poor pass, catch and wait and then take a poor, off-balance shot, miss, hesitate, and be late getting back on defense while Denver scores on the fast break. As I sat there, at the game, wondering whether in all the years since the Kings have been here whether I've seen the team be as worthless as this one tonight. We have lots of talent but haven't a clue how to use it. Sad. If our stars, Evans and Cousins, can't learn to play with consistency and keep themselves in the game then trade them for some that can, anyone, I have no suggestions.

Who's to start at SF? Flip a coin as far as I'm concerned. May be it might help if we put the team on a conditioning program so they can run up and down the court with another NBA team.

For anyone who read down this far, I apologize. Go Kings---------------

I would start Greene. He can't shoot, but at least the other team's SF won't be killing us.
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#21
I agree completely. 6-6 vs 6-10 What the hell did the coach expect him to do?
The better question is why did Petrie trade for him knowing he'd be going up against 6'9" or 6'10" sf's almost nightly? He wasn't brought it to play sg. So what the hell did Petrie expect?
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#22
The better question is why did Petrie trade for him knowing he'd be going up against 6'9" or 6'10" sf's almost nightly? He wasn't brought it to play sg. So what the hell did Petrie expect?
Is this an urban legend or did Petrie go after Salmons because Westphal wanted him? If so, that's still not a good reason because the GM should have balls. I will never understand that trade.
 
#23
The better question is why did Petrie trade for him knowing he'd be going up against 6'9" or 6'10" sf's almost nightly? He wasn't brought it to play sg. So what the hell did Petrie expect?
Why did the coach start him? He had other choices though they be poor,but no poorer than Salmons. The team threw a white flag out there and not only for Maranara, ykwim.
I suppose I just think the Kings should have forfeited the game rather expose their team and their fans, paid fans, to see such a total franchise mismatch. It's fair, go ahead and pick on anybody you want.
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#24
Is this an urban legend or did Petrie go after Salmons because Westphal wanted him? If so, that's still not a good reason because the GM should have balls. I will never understand that trade.
In an interview post-trade on Grants show, Westy said "when they(the kings) saw an opportunity to get Salmons, his opinion was to jump at it, because a guy like Salmons would really help this team and solidify the sf position. Also said it made the team a whole lot better then it was yesterday." That's pretty damn close to what he said, and I remember how much that part stuck out.

But, Petrie pulled the trigger. I don't care how excited Westy got about the idea of getting Salmons. Petrie must have agreed to whatever strategy they had agreed upon, that this would benefit the team. I wish I knew what that strategy was, and what exactly Petrie expected, because I thought it'd be a disaster, along with most of the fan base, and it has been.
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#25
Why did the coach start him? He had other choices though they be poor,but no poorer than Salmons. The team threw a white flag out there and not only for Maranara, ykwim.
I suppose I just think the Kings should have forfeited the game rather expose their team and their fans, paid fans, to see such a total franchise mismatch. It's fair, go ahead and pick on anybody you want.
You're only looking at today, the here and now. Ask yourself why you're campaigning to bench our newly acquired, highest paid player? That is the greater problem. The acquisition in the first place.
 
#26
In an interview post-trade on Grants show, Westy said "when they(the kings) saw an opportunity to get Salmons, his opinion was to jump at it, because a guy like Salmons would really help this team and solidify the sf position. Also said it made the team a whole lot better then it was yesterday." That's pretty damn close to what he said, and I remember how much that part stuck out.

But, Petrie pulled the trigger. I don't care how excited Westy got about the idea of getting Salmons. Petrie must have agreed to whatever strategy they had agreed upon, that this would benefit the team. I wish I knew what that strategy was, and what exactly Petrie expected, because I thought it'd be a disaster, along with most of the fan base, and it has been.
By no means is the disaster Salmons the biggest disaster on this team. You had better broaden your scope.
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#27
By no means is the disaster Salmons the biggest disaster on this team. You had better broaden your scope.
Huh? What makes you think I think Salmons is the largest problem? Have not read any of my posts?

I respond to your post about Salmons, with a response regarding Salmons, and you take it as I'm pinpointing him as our biggest problem?:confused:
 
#28
In an interview post-trade on Grants show, Westy said "when they(the kings) saw an opportunity to get Salmons, his opinion was to jump at it, because a guy like Salmons would really help this team and solidify the sf position. Also said it made the team a whole lot better then it was yesterday." That's pretty damn close to what he said, and I remember how much that part stuck out.

But, Petrie pulled the trigger. I don't care how excited Westy got about the idea of getting Salmons. Petrie must have agreed to whatever strategy they had agreed upon, that this would benefit the team. I wish I knew what that strategy was, and what exactly Petrie expected, because I thought it'd be a disaster, along with most of the fan base, and it has been.

We all know Petrie likes Salmons and never really wanted to move him. Hedo is another guy that Petrie never got over. With that said, I wouldn't doubt that the potential of an amnesty clause didn't weigh into that deal. Figured it could be worth the gamble if Salmons bought in and if not, bye bye birdie. I somehow doubt he figured there would be no system to buy into in the first place.
 
#29
You have to start Cisco and I would use Honeycutt to back him up. Either move Salmons to the bench or start him next to Cisco. If it were me I'd roll out this lineup next game:

PG: Evans
SG: Fredette
SF: Cisco
PF: Hayes
C: Cousins

Fredette and Garcia are the two best shooters on this team, it's not hard to figure out, best shooters = better shooting most nights. Stick one in one corner, stick the other in the other. Evans can drive and dish to them, Cousins and Hayes can look for them off of backcuts and out of the post. Yes, it's that easy.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#30
I think coach expected him to move his feet and not get blown by everytime down the court
This is how a bad fit turned into a disaster -- Father Time jammed a fork in John's back sometime last year, and now he's been pretty much worthless out there. Time was he was a good man defender who didn't get beat to the hoop very often, and just had problems with power guys going over or through him. On the other side of the floor he had a quick first step and could get to the hoop as well as any non-star level player. But the longer you watch this sluggish older version of John the more you realize that just isn't coming back. This is a guy who significantly impaired Kobe 3-4 years ago, and now he can't move his feet fast enough to stay in front of 6'10" Danilo Gallinari?