kupman
Starter
i will go one further. This team needs two trades. One for a stronger PF and one for a defensive minded big. We have plenty of non-essential assests to do both. But that probably belongs in another thread.
Grades v. Nuggets 02/01/10
- Thread starter Bricklayer
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i will go one further. This team needs two trades. One for a stronger PF and one for a defensive minded big. We have plenty of non-essential assests to do both. But that probably belongs in another thread.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Hawes has shown steady improvement over the past few weeks. Last night, he was the best Kings player on the floor. Made good decisions with the ball. I think he made just one pass that was forced. He looked like a veteran out there, while guys like Noc, Beno and Martin looked like 22 year olds. No one can say that we lost last night because of Hawes.
This is my take on Sergio also. His spurts, his change of pace from our other two pgs is often useful but he can't keep it up in a useful manner. In this he is like Thompson and Greene, gives you some touches of talent and then throws it away. Its a shame the coaches can't take a piece here and a piece there from our talent pool we could be great. If anyone wonders why starting roles and substitutions change every night, look at the pieces the coaches have to work with.
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Kingsguy881
Guest
You REALLY need to get a new hobby. Ripping on a 21 year old center who is going to be a 20+ scorer and approaching 10 rebs a game in 3-4 years is getting to be pretty pathetic and I'm sure you don't want to look that stupid in a couple of years. Right?
Insomniacal Fan
Starter
I blame Westphal for calling that final play. One on one to finish the game is not something Kevin can do, which Coach would know if he'd watched as many Kings games as we have.
Plus side, we were merely outplayed in the third as opposed to dominated. That's improvement!
Plus side, we were merely outplayed in the third as opposed to dominated. That's improvement!
drboiffard
Bench
Above all, you should consider scoring isn't the same in FIBA as in NBA, because of the changes of rules. The lack of 3s rule in deffense makes team play a must, as it's much harder to score because the deffending team can camp in the zone.
With that said, Sergio left spain for NBA too early, with 19 years old. He debuted in spanish league with 17, one minute, in the spanish league finals between Estudiantes and Barcelona. Next year he was somewhat like ROY in the spanish league. He played another season, then got drafted and went to NBA. The kid has been always a genius in court vision and ball handling since he was in junior teams (he was european champion with Spain in Junior category) but he only had a couple of years as professional before leaving, so he was still a too raw player (19 years old) when arrived there. Besides some fans think he jumped the ocean too early, I think he had bad luck. He didn't get consistent minutes in Portland because he had to fill a defensive-shooting 3 role PG player in McMillan system, and his strenghts are almost the opposite to that system. But if his rights wasn't been traded to Portland and he had stayed in Phoenix with D'Antoni, I'm sure he would have flourished yet and he would a completely different status right now. Now in the Kings, again bad luck, not with the coach or the system but because of an overdose of talented people at both guards position.
That's exactly where I see the problem lately, if we just take appart the reconstruction thing, the Fantasy Basketball trades and just take a look at the roster and how has been used. I agree is not easy at all, but I think the coaching team hasn't done a good job adjusting Martin to the rotations. It has been so raw. Omri has reached the rookie wall and altough Tyreke's case isn't that evident, he is also getting physically tired and gets little injuries. NBA rythm is demential, and playing 35+ minutes has he play is too much, specially on road trips that have a lot of matches in few days plus flights. The same with Martin, who comes from and injury and hasn't got rythm until these late games. Sergio was completly out of the rotations until a week ago, Greene was also almost out a few games, and at the first of the losing streak...The impression I have is so many times the coaching stuff seemed as they have predefined rotations, trying to squeeze every second to try Tyreke and Martin work together, instead of reading each game and make changes properly.
LookingAround
G-League
Well after watching the game I must say that I don't agree with drboiffard about Sergio being selfish.
He arranged some good looks for players that missed, and later was effected by the mess. He always had Beno or Martin (and I think even both) on the field with him and he didn't take on himself to collect the team, to give instructions and re-organize the team.
And most of the game he played well. The lead that the Kings had before was a lot due to him.
But I'm not trying to convince anybody except drboiffard here...
He arranged some good looks for players that missed, and later was effected by the mess. He always had Beno or Martin (and I think even both) on the field with him and he didn't take on himself to collect the team, to give instructions and re-organize the team.
And most of the game he played well. The lead that the Kings had before was a lot due to him.
But I'm not trying to convince anybody except drboiffard here...
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Yeah. In hindsight, I kinda overstep the boundaries there. They speak and write English better than I do and I'm a native speaker.
The larger goal was to play up the split between Euro-ball and NBA ball.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Yes please. Poppy seed please. Lots and lots of poppy seeds.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Yeah, that would look kind of stupid ripping on our future HOF center.
Um...where is this player again?
there was only one guy there who can go one on one and score and it's Beno.
before some one starts yelling, i know he didn't score well today, but he is the best penatrator after Tyrik, and he should have taken that ball and not Kevin.
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Kingsguy881
Guest
Yeah, that would look kind of stupid ripping on our future HOF center.
Um...where is this player again?
If Terry Cummings can do it, I see no reason why Spencer can't. I never gave up on Spencer and I think he can be very similar to Kaman, who himself is avg'g 20 and approaching 10. Does that make Kaman a HOF center Brickie?
drboiffard
Bench
Look, I don't want to make him a HOF because of yesterday's match, but I think Spencer is talented enough to become a true starting center. Till now, he has lacked attitude, not talent. And yesterday he shown a little bit of the attitude. If it's a sign he has understood his real duties, I think he can develop quite faster.
Another thing I would like to be remembered with Hawes is he hasn't reached his physicall ceiling yet. He should spend hours in the gym, but even if he doesn't do it as a fool, he will develop in that way more than less. Gasol at his age was like Fido Dido and look at him now. And he isn't a gym freak at all.
So, besides it isn't obvious thal will happen, I won't be surprised if Hawes flourish and become a paint dominant in a couple of years.
Another thing I would like to be remembered with Hawes is he hasn't reached his physicall ceiling yet. He should spend hours in the gym, but even if he doesn't do it as a fool, he will develop in that way more than less. Gasol at his age was like Fido Dido and look at him now. And he isn't a gym freak at all.
So, besides it isn't obvious thal will happen, I won't be surprised if Hawes flourish and become a paint dominant in a couple of years.
kennadog
Dog On It!
No need to apologize. I couldn't even begin to post on a board in Hebrew.
That goes for all posters here for whom English is a second language. I may not always agree with your remarks, but I appreciate different perspectives. Your passion for basketball is evident, too.
I think it's more than a little disingenuous to refer to Terry Cummings as a 20/10 guy. Cummings averaged 20/10 all of once, in an eighteen-year career. And that was his rookie season. And he only really even approached that mark twice after that. He spent most of the portion of his career that he was even relevant (which was really only the first eight years or so) as being closer to a 20 and 8 guy. And, unless I'm mistaken, Cummings never won anything, either.
That, and I'm reasonably certain that Terry Cummings didn't play the same position that Spencer Hawes does.
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sactownfan
Guest
you need to chill... look i want Hawes to be good but there's a whole lot more Hawes has to do to show before he becomes "that guy" your talking about that will make me look stupid.... hes been looking better the last 5 games... like i just said i think having to watch Brockman start over him might have got Hawes motor running... but the thing is... why did Hawes need to be put in that spot to begin with?
once more hes been better lately... but for most of the year he looked pathetic... seriously have you been paying attention??? or did you just start watching the last few games?
I thought Noc had a good game. Did his thing well and contributed to our good times out there in the first half. No big deal but he shouldn't be forgotten. There are times when I think he should play more minutes because he seems to have a lot less 'rookie moments' than most the rest.
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Kingsguy881
Guest
Ok, for clarification and for those that need to go to 'Derek Zoolanders school for children that don't read good, and want to learn to do other stuff good as well' (that's a joke, not trying to insult anybody, really, lol, jokey joke, haha), I said APPROACHING 10 rebounds. Now 8.6 is APPROACHING 10, is it not? And while Cummings and Hawes don't play the same position, their games are fairly similar in style, with Cummings being more of a bruiser but still a scorer with a smooth jump shot.
And I chose Cummings because its a random name that 98% of this board has no idea who he is. I didn't look up his stats and pore over them. Hell, I think it is a stroke of how good my basketball knowledge is that I could even remember Cummings as a 20+ppg approaching 10 boards a game player.
But you are right, Cummings never won anything. Doesn't mean he wasn't a helluva baller in his day, tho. Gotta give up the respect. Unless you think we need to have every guy on our team resemble someone who won a ring, as unrealistic as that may be.
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Kingsguy881
Guest
Not me boss, I just got fed up with you constantly starting threads about how much you hate Hawes and how much he sucks and decided to tell you to have a little patience. Everybody wants the Kings to be great and when they aren't, it sucks, we get it. When you have been a fan for as long as I have, you kinda understand that it takes a while. This team went from the playoffs in 86 to nothing unil 93, to a one and out with nothing again until 98 I think. So for about 13 years I saw 3 playoff teams go one and out. I understand and am willing to give this team some time to grow and mature, especially since I went through the Jim Thomas and Gregg Lukenbill years where once a player torched us, we went out and traded good players for them, no matter the knee issues or what have you said player-who-torched-us had (Ralph Sampson, Derek Smith come to mind).
You'd be amazed by how little "poring" I had to do...
I am somewhat disquieted by the notion that you would say that Hawes and Cummings are similar players, while also admitting in the same sentence that they are not. "Well, Cummings was more of a bruiser than Hawes is, but other than that, they're the same." Really? Because that strikes me as a fairly fundamental, and character-defining difference. To me, this is like saying that Kevin Martin is like Mitch Richmond, you know, other than the fact that Richmond was a better defender; you know, aside from that small difference. And no, 8.6 rebounds is not "approaching" 10 rebounds. Rebounds, assists, steals and blocks are not weighted the same as points. 8.6 rebounds is not "approaching" 10 any more than 20 points is "approaching" 25.
My whole point, really, was just to say that Cummings was not a 20/10 guy. It was less than half his career that he was even in the area code of 20/10. I don't fall into that foolishness that some people do where they try to claim that a player is something that he's only done once. Hell, Pervis Ellison averaged 20/10 once. In my opinion, the only way you get to claim that a player is a 20/10 guy who's only done it one year, is if he's a rookie and, even then, that's not firm ground to make a stand on. So, my personal answer to the question you presented to Bricklayer (which is what got my attention in the first place) is, no, I would not call Chris Kaman a Hall-of-Famer. But, I would also not call Chris Kaman a 20/10 guy; I'm not a guy who thinks that you get to say that you are such-and-such, just because you did it one time. A seven-year vet, who has never before averaged as many as sixteen points a game, and whose career average is closer to 11/8? Hell no, I wouldn't call him a 20/10 guy, let alone a Hall-of-Famer. ****, even completely disregarding this year, I'd be happy if Hawes had a career just as good as Kaman's.
Maybe he's been hanging out with BTH, and he's just happy to get his check?If only Hawes played every night the way he does the first game of the month:
1st game of November: 21/11/7
December: 21/7/2
January: 30/11/5
February: 23/7/3
Somebody needs to tamper with his calendar.
[yt=1st of tha month]4j_cOsgRY7w[/yt]
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Kingsguy881
Guest
I believe in Spencer. He's too young to give up on. I don't personally like him, he is too damn infantile with his thinking and actions. I would rather have had Noah. But I see a ton of ability in Spencer and think that once they drop he will be a beast.
What does that make JT?
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Kingsguy881
Guest
He is too damn infantile with his emotions. That's why he is slumping. Expect him to be breaking out of it in 10 games or less.
kupman
Starter
Yeah, that would look kind of stupid ripping on our future HOF center.
Um...where is this player again?
He might be the guy wearing #31. Note- I did say might. No predictions here. We just do not know with his young age. His numbers are similar to "Chief's" in his first couple of years. Difference here is that Chief was 22 or 23 as a rookie. Chief did not start playing like a HOF until he was 24 or 25. I am willing to wait until Spencer is 24 or 25 before passing judgement on what type of player he might be.
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Kingsguy881
Guest
Thats the rub, a lot of people aren't willing to wait and would throw him out before really knowing what kind of career he is destined for.
For some odd reason, I'm getting a feeling that those are the same people who are now whining about why we let Gerald Wallace go......8 years later.
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