Grades v. Mavericks 04/10/10

Who'd We Defend the Worst?

  • Dirk

    Votes: 23 54.8%
  • Terry

    Votes: 8 19.0%
  • Kidd

    Votes: 4 9.5%
  • Butler

    Votes: 1 2.4%
  • Barea

    Votes: 6 14.3%

  • Total voters
    42

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Alright, Theme = Top 10 Best Rookies In Sacramento Franchise History

Boxscore

Nocioni ( D ) -- limited and ineffective minutes as a starter this timeout -- played only 14 minutes, and yet managed a +/- of -21. Started off getting stripped on a drive, missing a little jumper, but at least drew a charge on Dirk. Bricked a three on the kick from Beno. Missed a shot so bad it went in off the glass. Came out in the third forcing shots and getting torched by Dirk, who would score 22pts...in the quarter. Did use an up fake to free up for a jumper, but was gone soon therafter and never returned.
resized_tyreke6.jpg

1) Tyreke (#4 '09)
37.5min 20.2pts (.458 .257 .747) 5.3reb 5.8ast 1.5stl 0.4blk 3.0TO
All the great ones get by with one name (fortunately he was not named Bartholomew or Herbert). When you see the rest of this list you will realize 1) how we have managed to suck so consistently, and 2) just how special Reke is.


Landry ( A- ) -- big scoring game and all game long he and Tyreke were the duo scoring back at the Mavs, but when you give up 126 you better have a scoring trio at least. Well, I guess saying it was all game long is not entirely accurate -- Carl actually got off to the invisible start in the early going and ws replaced by Donte. Was back as soon as Dirk left, and ramped up the ativity against Dampier and Najera, scoring inside and out. Got the foul line repeatedly as well as Najera is still a true, er, "finesse" player all these years later. Was nowhere on the defensive glass again, but he and Jason repeatedly hurt the Mavs following shots with offensive boards. Added a bad pass turnover trying to feed Reke in the post. Started the second half draining the long jumper. Then drove and fouled hard getting knocked out of the air. Came back with a strong drive +1 through heavy traffic (missed the +1). But obviously could do nothing with Dirk defensively when he was on him (and we seemed to be playing games to avoid that). Started the 4th with a little jumper, but missed the technical FT on a Kidd technical for kicking the ball out of bounds. Had a mixed bag down in the post, attacking, but not always able to get them to go as Najera bounced him around. Got a layup on the break to make it 16 again at the 4:00 mark, but that was kind of the last score where you could say the game was remotely within any kind of reach. 30pt nights are right up there on Carl's high end, and he did it very efficiently too at 10-16 field and 10-12 from the stripe. But going to stick with the "-" here as the boardwork once again wasn't there and his man still outscored him by 9.
simmons_sac3.jpg

2) Lionel Simmons (#7 '90)
37.7min 18.0pts (.422 .273 .736) 8.8reb 4.0ast 1.4stl 1.1blk 2.9TO
The second best rookie we have ever had, and L-Train was never even an All Star. Finished 2nd in the ROY race that year as I recall, to Derrick Coleman (let's hope nothing ridiculous happens with the voting to make Reke share that fate). But the difference was that Coleman was FAR more talented. Lionel put up the numbers, you loved his ability to fill up the boxscore ala Reke. He even came with an ugly jumper with bad form ala Reke (and so was forced to go inside again and again and led the league in getting his groundbound post shots blocked). But he just never had the great talent and was topped out from the moment he entered the league at 22/23 -- his numbers would look the same until his knees started to go three years later. And never a good athlete in the first place, once he lost even a little bit he went from do it all (except shoot) roleplayng SF to end of the bencher and retired before he was 30.


Thompson ( C ) -- as a big man mostly banged around with big ole Dampier out there and generally held his own, but not much more. Took some turns getting worked by Dirk, and in general got little accomplished defensively, neither able to anchor the middle (we were hurt worse outside though) or cleaning up the defnsive glass (almost all his boards were offensive). Made what impact he did on the game largely through a series of those handy for the stats misses, quickly followq the miss, and finish the second one things he specilizalizes in -- was quicker off his feet on that first jump than any of the Mavs bigs. Loses points for all the non-big stuff as he racked up 5 TOs in a variety of unfortunate ways. Had a pass go through his hands for a trunover, traveled trying to fake the jumper. Stripped on the dumb fullcourt drive. Threw two poor soft passes up top in the second half that were picked off by the mavs for easy breaway layups. Did finally get rewarded for his clutziness as he tripped over his own feet and somehow got a foul called on Dirk for it -- see refs can be incompetent both ways. Finished with 12 and 7, but it was a turnover pron and invisible 12 and 7 anchoring a defense that gave up 126 points and getting the details wrong.
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3) Jason Williams (#7 '98)
36.1min 12.8pts (.374 .310 .752) 3.1reb 6.0ast 1.9stl 0.0blk 2.9TO
Once upon a time we had our own wildly inefficient quick little guard on a pretty good young team thing going, and no, JWill didn't win rookie of the year for it. Others coming up will have similar or better stats if you take into account the terrible shooting percentages, but impact wise and promise wise this was the #3 guy. Just a special passing talent and with so much flair that you overlooked the flaws, at least until we started to get serious. We missed Pierce and Dirk to get him, which obviously qualifies as oops, but even thoguh he wasn't there to see it through to the end he was a key kid in helping establish the culture of those Kings teams a decade ago.


Udrih ( C+ ) -- another mostly quiet game for Beno as I think he is both not playing that well, and also getting lost in the backwash as Reke has stepped forward into a more dominant role. Something to consider for next year as Beno has worked well with the 20-5-5 kid taking some of the load off of him, but will there still be a need/room for him back there next to a 23-6-6 Reke or a 25-7-7 Reke next season? Got off to the pretty good start to this one with a spin drive and finish, and then a hard quick drive playing off the attention to Reke. Did a great job stopping and stripping JKidd on one break early as well, and was quick to the ball on the offensive glass and hit a little jumper on the follow. Scattered in some nice passes in the second, but was mixed at best on offense, and was geting torched by Barea on defense again (seem to remmeber him having problems wit the little twit before). As the game was blown open in the third got out of control, forcing a drive into the defense and getting blocked, then missing the wild drive spinning both ways. Added a strip of the ball up top from Butler and nice assist to Reke on the ensuing break and wasn't heard from again.
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4) Brian Grant (#8 '94)
28.6min 13.2pts (.511 .250 .636) 7.5reb 1.2ast 0.6stl 1.5blk 2.0TO
The last supposedly foundational rookie before JWill was Brian Grant, who was more a solid tough complement to Mitch Richmond than a star in his own right. It would not end up mattering anyway, as he never got any better, hurt his knee, and was only too eager to abandon the team as soon as his contract came up after his third year.
 
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Evans ( A- ) -- was aggressive right from the getgo in this one, but I thoguht was forcing a bit too much in the early going. Not even so much the scoring, as in just overpenetrating and tryignt o froce passes through 3 or 4 sets of arms. Mixed in nice takes with turnvoers in the first. Continued to display the increasing offensive repertoire that has been developing right before us here in the last few weeks of the season. When J-Kidd refused to even raise his hands to guar dhim, jsut splashed int he little midrange standstill jumper. When Stevensen tried to muscle him and Dampier came over to block the layups, several times just resorted to little easy 5 foot runners and hooks over the top. Got picked from behind by Kidd on the break. Returend the favor later picking Kidd clean int the open court, scooping it up and going down for the layup. Tracked down Barea from behind to block his shot with authority. Had hsi normal array of pretty drives and layups, but began to lose the jumper as the game went along, and you could just see him feeling the ball up there rather than just shooting it. Did a nice job setting up Donte for the three to close the half rather than forcing a drive into the teeth of the set defense. Deliverd another flurry of drives in the thrid quarter -- not all of which went in, but all of which were pretty, and added a dunk on the break from Beno. Full speed behind the back wraparound drive just made for the highlight reels barely rolled off at the 3rd quarter buzzer. Added a few points and some good boards in the 4th, but it was a lost cause, and we almsot got him hurt playing him to the bitter end -- got an offensive board inside the 30 second mark and drove into heavy traffic and got slammed hard into the stanchion. There is a reason you don't play your top guys ion the final garbage minutes -- unneccessary risk.
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5) Kenny Smith (#6 '87)
35.6min 13.8pts (.477 .308 .819) 2.3reb 7.1ast 1.5stl 0.1blk 3.0TO
Kenny "The Jet" had a solid rookie season for us, and would become a good young offensive PG (I say offensive because he was scrawny, and an atrocious rebounder and defender). But there was a sense of disappointment (perhaps unreasonable) about his good but not great numbers, and it only got worse once it becamse obvious how big of a blunder we had made taking him over local Sacto hero Kevin Johnson, who was selected with the next pick. A good player, but not the franchise turner we needed.


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Bench

Greene ( C+ ) -- in for Landry early, and played a better roleplaying game than the numbers might indicate, at least for a half. Near reach steal going full out but rolled out of bounds. Good block from behind on Haywood. Canned the three from Reke to close the first half scoring. Got the start in the third as his reward, but didin't do anything with it as the Mavs opened up the big lead. Several missed jumpers later was replaced by Casspi, and never got back in as Omri was playing well.
walt.jpg

6) Walt Williams (#7 '92)
28.3min 17.0pts (.435 .319 .742) 4.5reb 3.0ast 1.1stl 0.5blk 3.0TO
The Wizard was another horrible athlete we drafted with a #7 pick -- there's a considerable lesson with our pick history, aim for Top 5, because we apent half our history picking #6-#8 and never got more than a serviceable starter out of it. There's lottery picks and then there's lottery picks. Wiz had been a bigtime college scorer...somehow. And when Mitch went down for half the season, we turned the ball over to him and just said what the hell, go score it. The results were goofy, sometimes big numbers. Sometimes ugly ones. Fun in a throw up your hands way. Walt was never meant to be a big scorer in the NBA, and it was classic big numbers on a bad team stuff. Inefficient, sloppy, ball dominant, off balance chucks, just fugly. A prominent rookie season that you did not have to be an NBA expert to question whether it would ever be duplicated on a winning team. And of course it wasn't.


Cisco ( C- ) -- Mostly ineffective game this time out, knocking down both of his hits back to back in the 2nd (a three, and then slashing down the lane as it opend up for him) but also missing a dumb pullup that was too quick, and a series of jumeprs on kickouts. After half went down insaide a few times, and had the ball smushed in his face for his trouble.
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7) Ricky Berry (#18 '88)
22.0min 11.0pts (.450 .406 .789) 3.1reb 1.3ast 0.6stl 0.3blk 1.3TO
Ah the Ricky Berry tragedy. Once a year it makes these themes. And funny thing is I am not the guy who should be singing his praises -- I was never one of those who felt he was going to be THAT good. You can see Jerry doing his normal gush up above in the article scan, and maybe the All Star part was right. It was possible. I could have seen Ricky making it as a Kevin type figure maybe. But not a franchise guy or cornerstone guy. Still, any of the above would have been far far better than a cold stone. It wasn;t a huge statistical year, but it was a promising one, and he gets this spot because I think people were legitimately more excited about him than any of the guys to follow. Too bad he was not as excited about his own future before he took his own life.


May ( INC ) -- missed the little jumper to end the first quarter. Was back for the garbagetime and grabbed a board or two.
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8) Jason Thompson (#8 '08)
28.1min 11.1pts (.497 .000 .692) 7.4reb 1.1ast 0.6stl 0.7blk 1.8TO
And you know when I tag JT's rookie year as the 8th best rookie season we have had in these parts in 25+ years just what sort of draftwork we have had over the years. But at least with this one there was promise of a solid future in the league....while leading the league in fouls on a league worst 17-65 squad.
 
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Casspi ( B+ ) -- continued his little late season mini-revival with another strong outing. Was aggressive but forcing things inside in the 2nd. Came in in the mid third though and played well enough he never relinquished the spot. Hit the driving layup. Hit the side jumper while getting knocked down, but no foul was called. Missed the hard drive. Open court steal but got overexcited, fumbled the ball and missed the shot. Played tough in the 4th, knocking down two threes, and scrapping on the boards and inside. Missed his last couple of jumpers in the desperation/semi-garbatime to sink back under .500, but generally one of our best players late.
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9) Travis Mays (#14 '90)
33.5min 14.3pts (.406 .365 .770) 2.8reb 4.0ast 1.3stl 0.2blk 2.5TO
The engima that was Travis Mays gets the #9 spot on numbers alone. The raw numbers were pretty good...unless you look at that shooting percentage (but hey, doesnt matter to Jennings, why shoul'd it to Mays). But he helmed, part time, the team during a horrid year, and rumors swirled that he was far from a good soldier about it. Forgot what it was -- either he refused to play PG, or refused to be moved off of it to the SG spot. Either way he was a tweener without PG instincts or SG size, and after the good numbers on bad team rookie season, he was traded, quickly sank out of sight, and was gone from the league in two years.


Brockman ( INC ) -- Offensive board and finish to close the 3rd, but otherwise really yet another one of his mostly invisible performances since returning. Just have not seem that same pop he had before the injury, and you have to worry a little but how that's going to effect our thinking about him for next season.
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10) Tyus Edney (#47 '95)
31.0min 10.8pts (.412 .368 .782) 2.5reb 6.1ast 1.1stl 0.0blk 2.4TO
Now if this list had been constructed differently -- let's say best players ever drafted by the Kings -- well Omri would have this spot rather than Tyus (in fact a lot of spots would change, and it would be hard to assess the new guys accurately). But since it is a list of just the best rookie seasons, well Tyus's deserves to pop up somewhere. And hey, he should not have been starting, and everybody knew he should not have been starting. Like Anthony Johnson a few years later (we went through a period of just throwing random 2nd round picks into the starting lineup for lack of anything better to do), Edney was at best a career backup. But for us post-Spud, he was a starter and put up decent rookie numbers. Of course he was a complete gnat who could not defend anything -- Reke would have used him as a toothpick. But like most gnats who reach the NBA, he was a quick gnat, could motor around the floor, and used that to set people up. Good enough for a #10 spot in such an undistinguished list.
 
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Terry lit us up. Dirk could have thrown anything up and it would have went in, he is just currently en fuego. But Terry torched us.
 
Who's the #2 rookie? According to some east coast sportswriters, it would be Corliss because he actually won a championship. Even though Lionel Simmons was the most impressive rookie in a Kings uniform (until Tyreke came along, sorry J-Dub55)
 
Nocioni ( D ) ...

1) Tyreke
37.5min 20.2pts (.458 .257 .747) 5.3reb 5.8ast 1.5stl 0.4blk 3.0TO
All the great ones get by with one name (fortunately he was not named Bartholomew or Herbert). When you see the rest of this list you will realize 1) how we have managed to suck so consistently, and 2) just how special Reke is.


Why is Tyreke's theme under the Noc Grade, shouldn't he be under himself? Or did you specifically put him under Noc to offset dismal grade with an A+ rookie. If that is the case then I don't think we have enough rookies in the theme.
 
Probably (Sacramento era, in some semblance of rookie performance):

Tyreke
Lionel Simmons
Billy Owens
Kenny Smith
Walt Williams
Jason Williams
Brian Grant
Jason Thompson
Omri Casspi
Corliss Williamson



Can't think of any more worth mentioning off the top of my head.
 
Had to laugh when Bricky mentioned lack of defensive rebounding. Especially by Thompson. I thought to myself, its hard to get a defensive rebound when the other team is making every stinking shot. Sixty something percent from 3pt range? Are you kidding me? Terrible!

I have to admit. The Mav's look like a pretty good team. If Dirk can keep shooting the ball like that, they're going to be hard to beat. I noticed that Portland didn't have much luck defending him either.
 
Probably (Sacramento era, in some semblance of rookie performance):

Tyreke
Lionel Simmons
Billy Owens
Kenny Smith
Walt Williams
Jason Williams
Brian Grant
Jason Thompson
Omri Casspi
Corliss Williamson



Can't think of any more worth mentioning off the top of my head.


I'd imagine Travis Mayes would have to be on the list. Then Ricky Berry and Peja might have a shot towards the end of that list.
 
Certainly one of the best rookies in Sac Kings history was Ricky Berry.

He shot over 40% 3's his first and last NBA season while averaging 11 PPG. As I recall, he was averaging around 17 PPG in second half of season and broke the then NBA record for number of made 3's in a game.
 
Probably (Sacramento era, in some semblance of rookie performance):

Tyreke
Lionel Simmons
Billy Owens
Kenny Smith
Walt Williams
Jason Williams
Brian Grant
Jason Thompson
Omri Casspi
Corliss Williamson

Is he included because he would turn into the Kings' MVP that season - in the form of Mitch Richmond?
 
Could a case be made that Simmons is, to date, the best career King? There have certainly been many better players, but how many of them played their whole career in Sacramento?
 
Yeah, that case is probably open and shut. Lawrence Funderburke is the only other career player I can think of that was okay (two games in Chicago shouldn't count.) Sad stuff.
 
Yeah, that case is probably open and shut. Lawrence Funderburke is the only other career player I can think of that was okay (two games in Chicago shouldn't count.) Sad stuff.


When you get down to it the only players really likely to be career guys for you are either superstars you draft or scrubs that flame out quickly and never get another gig. Lionel is the odd case in the middle because the injuries finished him early, but since we have just now finally drafted our first superstar its not a huge surprise that not only is he #1, but I can't think of anybody even close.
 
I protest. Jason Thompson on this list? You've revealed how you stand in the Spencer vs Jason debate. I know one of them sucks I'm just not sure which one. I would rank Peja ahead of Jason and probably Kevin too. Note: I'm interpreting this topic as top 10 players drafted by Sacramento, ie not who had the best rookie season.
 
I protest. Jason Thompson on this list? You've revealed how you stand in the Spencer vs Jason debate. I know one of them sucks I'm just not sure which one. I would rank Peja ahead of Jason and probably Kevin too. Note: I'm interpreting this topic as top 10 players drafted by Sacramento, ie not who had the best rookie season.

Then you need to go back and check again. ;)
 
Then you need to go back and check again. ;)
Yup, top 10 BEST ROOKIES. What about Ricky Minard? LMAO, him and Patrick Ewing jr. = biggest blunders of a draft pick not named Mateen Cleaves.
 
Evans ( A- ) -- was aggressive right from the getgo in this one, but I thoguht was forcing a bit too much in the early going. Not even so much the scoring, as in just overpenetrating and tryignt o froce passes through 3 or 4 sets of arms. Mixed in nice takes with turnvoers in the first. Continued to display the increasing offensive repertoire that has been developing right before us here in the last few weeks of the season. When J-Kidd refused to even raise his hands to guar dhim, jsut splashed int he little midrange standstill jumper. When Stevensen tried to muscle him and Dampier came over to block the layups, several times just resorted to little easy 5 foot runners and hooks over the top. Got picked from behind by Kidd on the break. Returend the favor later picking Kidd clean int the open court, scooping it up and going down for the layup. Tracked down Barea from behind to block his shot with authority. Had hsi normal array of pretty drives and layups, but began to lose the jumper as the game went along, and you could just see him feeling the ball up there rather than just shooting it. Did a nice job setting up Donte for the three to close the half rather than forcing a drive into the teeth of the set defense. Deliverd another flurry of drives in the thrid quarter -- not all of which went in, but all of which were pretty, and added a dunk on the break from Beno. Full speed behind the back wraparound drive just made for the highlight reels barely rolled off at the 3rd quarter buzzer. Added a few points and some good boards in the 4th, but it was a lost cause, and we almsot got him hurt playing him to the bitter end -- got an offensive board inside the 30 second mark and drove into heavy traffic and got slammed hard into the stanchion. There is a reason you don't play your top guys ion the final garbage minutes -- unneccessary risk.
kennysmith.png

5) Kenny Smith (#6 '87)
35.6min 13.8pts (.477 .308 .819) 2.3reb 7.1ast 1.5stl 0.1blk 3.0TO
Kenny "The Jet" had a solid rookie season for us, and would become a good young offensive PG (I say offensive because he was scrawny, and an atrocious rebounder and defender). But there was a sense of disappointment (perhaps unreasonable) about his good but not great numbers, and it only got worse once it becamse obvious how big of a blunder we had made taking him over local Sacto hero Kevin Johnson, who was selected with the next pick. A good player, but not the franchise turner we needed.


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Bench

Greene ( C+ ) -- in for Landry early, and played a better roleplaying game than the numbers might indicate, at least for a half. Near reach steal going full out but rolled out of bounds. Good block from behind on Haywood. Canned the three from Reke to close the first half scoring. Got the start in the third as his reward, but didin't do anything with it as the Mavs opened up the big lead. Several missed jumpers later was replaced by Casspi, and never got back in as Omri was playing well.
walt.jpg

6) Walt Williams (#7 '92)
28.3min 17.0pts (.435 .319 .742) 4.5reb 3.0ast 1.1stl 0.5blk 3.0TO
The Wizard was another horrible athlete we drafted with a #7 pick -- there's a considerable lesson with our pick history, aim for Top 5, because we apent half our history picking #6-#8 and never got more than a serviceable starter out of it. There's lottery picks and then there's lottery picks. Wiz had been a bigtime college scorer...somehow. And when Mitch went down for half the season, we turned the ball over to him and just said what the hell, go score it. The results were goofy, sometimes big numbers. Sometimes ugly ones. Fun in a throw up your hands way. Walt was never meant to be a big scorer in the NBA, and it was classic big numbers on a bad team stuff. Inefficient, sloppy, ball dominant, off balance chucks, just fugly. A prominent rookie season that you did not have to be an NBA expert to question whether it would ever be duplicated on a winning team. And of course it wasn't.


Cisco ( C- ) -- Mostly ineffective game this time out, knocking down both of his hits back to back in the 2nd (a three, and then slashing down the lane as it opend up for him) but also missing a dumb pullup that was too quick, and a series of jumeprs on kickouts. After half went down insaide a few times, and had the ball smushed in his face for his trouble.
slam-131ricky-berry-spread.jpg

7) Ricky Berry (#18 '88)
22.0min 11.0pts (.450 .406 .789) 3.1reb 1.3ast 0.6stl 0.3blk 1.3TO
Ah the Ricky Berry tragedy. Once a year it makes these themes. And funny thing is I am not the guy who should be singing his praises -- I was never one of those who felt he was going to be THAT good. You can see Jerry doing his normal gush up above in the article scan, and maybe the All Star part was right. It was possible. I could have seen Ricky making it as a Kevin type figure maybe. But not a franchise guy or cornerstone guy. Still, any of the above would have been far far better than a cold stone. It wasn;t a huge statistical year, but it was a promising one, and he gets this spot because I think people were legitimately more excited about him than any of the guys to follow. Too bad he was not as excited about his own future before he took his own life.


May ( INC ) -- missed the little jumper to end the first quarter. Was back for the garbagetime and grabbed a board or two.
jason_thompson.jpg

8) Jason Thompson (#8 '08)
28.1min 11.1pts (.497 .000 .692) 7.4reb 1.1ast 0.6stl 0.7blk 1.8TO
And you know when I tag JT's rookie year as the 8th best rookie season we have had in these parts in 25+ years just what sort of draftwork we have had over the years. But at least with this one there was promise of a solid future in the league....while leading the league in fouls on a league worst 17-65 squad.


First game I ever went to against the Rockets in '94. The Wizard did a 360 dunk that had me screaming so much I lost my voice.
 
Yup, top 10 BEST ROOKIES. What about Ricky Minard? LMAO, him and Patrick Ewing jr. = biggest blunders of a draft pick not named Mateen Cleaves.

Huh? Why single out Minard and Ewing as second round picks when we've had plenty of second round picks never pan out? And why compare them to Cleaves, whom we didn't even draft and was selected #14 overall? And why consider Cleaves to be such a huge blunder when there are so many better examples picked higher in the first round who had much less towel-waving ability?
 
Why such bad scores Brick? I was thinking all A's because Tyreke got the points and we lost. mission accomplished! :p:D j/k
 
Yup, top 10 BEST ROOKIES. What about Ricky Minard? LMAO, him and Patrick Ewing jr. = biggest blunders of a draft pick not named Mateen Cleaves.

I don't think either would make the Sacramento all time top 10 busts (although you have given Brick a new idea for a grade thread :D ).

Minard was the second to last pick of the draft. The fact that he even got invited to camp makes him better than most 2nd round picks. PEJ was an odd pick at least for where we were picking, but certainly not one of our worst. Now Quicny Douby, that's a swing and a miss :p
 
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