[Grades] Grades v. Magic 1/10/14

[pshn80]

A

very solid and decisive win last night. granted, it was against one of the league's bottom-of-the-barrel teams, but it's good to see the kings throttle a beleaguered opponent so convincingly. they played particularly well in the second half, building on their lead with emphasis. more importantly, cousins and gay are fast developing a workable and sustainable chemistry. their near-nightly dominance as a duo continues to impress. i maintain my stance that isaiah thomas should be returned to his sixth man role as soon as the kings are able to acquire another starting-caliber PG, but i will freely admit to being very wrong about rudy gay's impact on this team (brickie can go ahead and gloat, if he'd like, at least in the short term)...

i thought it likely that we'd see a "honeymoon" uptick in gay's level of play upon arriving in sacramento, a short burst "for the haters," so to speak, but he's played so well, so smartly, and so within himself that he's almost completely unrecognizable from the rudy gay of the last couple of seasons. he's been as clear a #2 talent as you could hope to pair with demarcus cousins. in 14 games with the kings, gay is averaging 20.6 pts (51% shooting), 5.5 rbs, and 2.8 asts, while taking considerably fewer boneheaded jumpers than he did in toronto, and establishing a real connection with DMC on the court. i'd like to see gay's 3-pt shooting percentage return to its career average, i'd like to see a decrease in turnovers, and i'd like to see consistent defensive effort, but other than that, it's extremely hard to criticize the guy. i fully expect gay to come back down to earth a bit, but i guess playing alongside a once-in-a-generation center has its benefits...



of course, if gay's level of play isn't at all a mirage, if his developing chemistry with cousins isn't fool's gold, then he's gonna prove to be a pretty expensive re-signing in '15. he won't cost nearly as much as the contract he's currently on, but we're looking at a major veteran salary commitment, so PDA really needs to get to work in re-shaping the rest of the roster to determine if a winning team can be built around cousins/gay...

re you sore that PDA isn't already at work on that project? I think he is.

 

[bajaden]

You want to raise shooting % ? If he'd take at least 10 more shots a game his % would go up to where it usually is. But we ask IT to take less shots and distribute more. He is trying to do that. Don't beat him up for low shooting % when he is "not one of the primary scorers". How many of the last 5 games have we won?

Dude, he took 13 shots!!!!! I dont think he needs more shots, especially when he's not hitting them. Were asking IT to take less shots? Well, he wanted to start at the PG position, not the SG position. That sort of comes with the territory. I don't have any favorites here, but if a player plays bad, he plays bad. No one says that if Jimmer could take more shots his percentage would be higher. Actually, it is higher. Frankly, I like IT, but I'm getting sick of hearing about him or Jimmer. This is a team game, and I don't give a damm who takes the shots as long as them make them and we win. If someone's favorite player isn't getting enough shots, or scoring as much as you would like, and your complaining after a win, then you care more about the player than you do the team. If not, then you've lost perspective.

 

[I~true]

So basically, anything/anyone that takes away from the shining star that is Isaiah Thomas (whether it's Jimmer Fredette or Demarcus Cousins) is unworthy of anything remotely resembling praise?

Give me a break.

PLEASANT NOVELTY? I really hate to burst your bubble (well, really I don't) but if ANYONE on the Kings could be called a pleasant novelty, it ain't Jimmer.

Went back and looked at some jimmer highlights from his first pre-season game ever against Golden state. While I think much of his playing wounds are self- inflicted...he definitely had waayyyyy more swagger back then. He pulled up right in curry's face a busted a 3 while scoring 21.

I think a new start might help the guy because he has an exploitable skill set for someone else. Here was a bad marriage all around and a sad waste of time for everyone.

 

[Padrino]

Well, at this point we might start to talk that Gay won't find the same post presence to make his life easier anywhere in the League. Again I don't expect Gay to get more that $14 million per, that's ok for 2nd option, and with Cousins locked for 4 years at pretty low figures for franchise player, there's going to be enough flexibility.

provided the chemistry holds up, i certainly think that rudy would be inclined to stick around. his career has been in nothing short of a tailspin. he was the butt of all contract-related jokes across the league, a near-all-star level talent who was traded for greivis vasquez and a few scraps in a blatant salary dump, and most sports journalists thought the raptors got the better end of the deal. if gay legitimately turns it around in sacramento, and if the kings start winning a bit next season, it's hard to see him jumping ship to his fourth team in three years, considering all of the recent turmoil and upheaval surrounding rudy gay. if the kings want to keep him, i suspect they'll be able to keep him. it's just a matter of determining how much it will cost to keep him...

that said, there would hopefully be enough flexibility in the aftermath, but the carl landry signing looks more ill-advised by the minute, especially since the kings may be in a position to pick up a defensive big in the upcoming draft. then the new regime needs to determine if they want to re-sign isaiah thomas this offseason. and they'll have to decide if they want to be able to pursue anybody in addition to rudy from the 2015 free agent class. the money comes up short rather quickly when all of the possibilities are considered. it's certainly why PDA has been trying to dump marcus thornton and travis outlaw in possible deals before the trade deadline...

 

[Chubbs]

In the past few games we are really seeing our top 2 guys learn to play with each other. When you put together top shelf talent, they tend to get better as they learn each other's games. And they become better together than either guy was alone. We are seeing that. If I'm not mistaken, both Cuz and Rudy's numbers have gone up in significant ways playing together. They open things up for each other.

And now there is clearly a 3rd wheel that just isn't in that income tax bracket nor at that talent level. And it's affecting his game and his attitude. The guy who wants to be AI is being turned into a sidekick. You can see he's not happy coming out of timeouts. He's best when he's doing whatever he wants. I don't think he's being given as much freedom as earlier this year. The real AI always got to do whatever he wanted. In his case, he wanted to get steals and play D as well as score, and he was really great at both. Pure speculation on my part, but our AI seems to be struggling with this whole team idea. Bring on the attacks.

Since it's the day after now, didn't want to rain on last night's good feeling, but that game felt a little like Fool's Gold. I mean, the magic are just awful. We won with MT, Ben and AI going 2-21. That's not gonna cut it against almost any other team. Great to get an easy win, but, yeah, the Magic have lost 6 straight and are again going to finish at the bottom of the league.

 

[Padrino]

A

re you sore that PDA isn't already at work on that project? I think he is.

i'm sure he is at work on that project, and i'm a patient man. in reality, PDA may or may not get much more accomplished prior to the trade deadline. but i'll definitely want to see a considerably more balanced roster by the beginning of the next training camp.

 

[I~true]

When yor 2 top scorers can handle the ball it helps. They are more of a threat.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

What was up with Thomas? the guy looked awful. taking even more bad shots than he normally does, missing all his shots, trying to make fancy dribbling moves and failing. it was just a sloppy sloppy game for him

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

What was up with Thomas? the guy looked awful. taking even more bad shots than he normally does, missing all his shots, trying to make fancy dribbling moves and failing. it was just a sloppy sloppy game for him

He's been instructed to change his approach. As a result, some different things are going on. It will be interesting to see how it pans out for his game

 

[Padrino]

In the past few games we are really seeing our top 2 guys learn to play with each other. When you put together top shelf talent, they tend to get better as they learn each other's games. And they become better together than either guy was alone. We are seeing that. If I'm not mistaken, both Cuz and Rudy's numbers have gone up in significant ways playing together. They open things up for each other.

And now there is clearly a 3rd wheel that just isn't in that income tax bracket nor at that talent level. And it's affecting his game and his attitude. The guy who wants to be AI is being turned into a sidekick. You can see he's not happy coming out of timeouts. He's best when he's doing whatever he wants. I don't think he's being given as much freedom as earlier this year. The real AI always got to do whatever he wanted. In his case, he wanted to get steals and play D as well as score, and he was really great at both. Pure speculation on my part, but our AI seems to be struggling with this whole team idea. Bring on the attacks.

Since it's the day after now, didn't want to rain on last night's good feeling, but that game felt a little like Fool's Gold. I mean, the magic are just awful. We won with MT, Ben and AI going 2-21. That's not gonna cut it against almost any other team. Great to get an easy win, but, yeah, the Magic have lost 6 straight and are again going to finish at the bottom of the league.

i think you're overstating things a bit, but i also think you maximize thomas' talent when you give him more offensive freedom, and he's struggling to adjust to the reigns that coach malone is trying to put on him. cousins and gay make a helluva halfcourt pairing, and because both have considerable playmaking abilities, IT is getting squeezed out of the hierarchy. couple that fact with thomas' defensive liabilities, and it's a shaky prospect to leave him in the starting unit, as it's always been. this is why so many continue to insist that it would be ideal to return him to a sixth man's role. i say bring thomas, williams, and mclemore off the bench together, and let them run the other team's second unit off the court...

 

[Chubbs]

i think you're overstating things a bit, but i also think you maximize thomas' talent when you give him more offensive freedom, and he's struggling to adjust to the reigns that coach malone is trying to put on him. cousins and gay make a helluva halfcourt pairing, and because both have considerable playmaking abilities, IT is getting squeezed out of the hierarchy. couple that fact with thomas' defensive liabilities, and it's a shaky prospect to leave him in the starting unit, as it's always been. this is why so many continue to insist that it would be ideal to return him to a sixth man's role. i say bring thomas, williams, and mclemore off the bench together, and let them run the other team's second unit off the court...

You'll never hear me argue he's not better off the bench. We just a need a viable alternative and him to buy in. Both are lacking at the moment.

 

[I~true]

IT and others will be better served in trying to get to Their sweet spots when Gay and DMC have the ball.

Dribbling bad passing good.

 

[Padrino]

You'll never hear me argue he's not better off the bench. We just a need a viable alternative and him to buy in. Both are lacking at the moment.

well, up until recently pete d'allesandro was attempting to trade for andre miller, so i remain optimistic that the front office has designs on acquiring a starting-caliber PG. of course, we have no idea if coach malone would have ultimately decided to start miller over isaiah thomas, but we do know that, when given the option, malone decided to start the struggling greivis vasquez rather than IT, who's production outclassed vasquez's considerably. that tells us something rather important about the role that this new regime envisions for IT. and considering that rudy gay has flourished in the time since vasquez was traded, i have no reason to believe that PDA will cease in his pursuit of a PG who better meshes with the starting unit, while allowing for IT's return to his role as leader of the second unit...

 

[HereWeBoogie]

He's been instructed to change his approach. As a result, some different things are going on. It will be interesting to see how it pans out for his game

Yea i could see that. i hope he understands he is the 3rd option at best and the most important job for him is getting him teammates going. regardless of how bad he shot, the team did win last night and in convincing fashion so i can't complain.

Going against Kyrie Irving tomorrow is going to be a huge test for him. i hope he can take the challenge defensively

 

[pshn80]

Dude, he took 13 shots!!!!! I dont think he needs more shots, especially when he's not hitting them. Were asking IT to take less shots? Well, he wanted to start at the PG position, not the SG position. That sort of comes with the territory. I don't have any favorites here, but if a player plays bad, he plays bad. No one says that if Jimmer could take more shots his percentage would be higher. Actually, it is higher. Frankly, I like IT, but I'm getting sick of hearing about him or Jimmer. This is a team game, and I don't give a damm who takes the shots as long as them make them and we win. If someone's favorite player isn't getting enough shots, or scoring as much as you would like, and your complaining after a win, then you care more about the player than you do the team. If not, then you've lost perspective.

I'm sorry. I did not make myself clear. I don't want him to take more shots. I want him to do what he is apparently trying to do which is to make the switch to distributing more and shooting less. I think he is trying. And because he is trying he doesn't seem to be shooting as well. All of which should not only please me but everyone else as well. I brought this up because the theme of this thread seemed to be, gee, IT has not been shooting as well as on the past, what could the matter be. I have outlined in these posts what I think is at the heart of this. If this is to any degree true he should be encouraged by us all and not a discussion of what is at the bottom of this terrible situation.

 

[Glenn]

I'm sorry. I did not make myself clear. I don't want him to take more shots. I want him to do what he is apparently trying to do which is to make the switch to distributing more and shooting less. I think he is trying. And because he is trying he doesn't seem to be shooting as well. All of which should not only please me but everyone else as well. I brought this up because the theme of this thread seemed to be, gee, IT has not been shooting as well as on the past, what could the matter be. I have outlined in these posts what I think is at the heart of this. If this is to any degree true he should be encouraged by us all and not a discussion of what is at the bottom of this terrible situation.

IT is being asked to do something that seems to be inconsistent to his personality AND his need to get a big contract. He is playing with huge uncertainty. Perhaps he should be uncertain as if this team doesn't need his shooting, what is his worth? Now we go back to the discussion of him coming off the bench.

 

[Spike]

Went back and looked at some jimmer highlights from his first pre-season game ever against Golden state. While I think much of his playing wounds are self- inflicted...he definitely had waayyyyy more swagger back then. He pulled up right in curry's face a busted a 3 while scoring 21.

I think a new start might help the guy because he has an exploitable skill set for someone else. Here was a bad marriage all around and a sad waste of time for everyone.

Sounds like he'd be great off the bench. Hopefully IT can nab us a quality defender in return.

 

[I~true]

Never say never I guess

 

[Kingsfan23]

The saying "you are only as good as your weakest link" has never been truer than for this Kings team, the recent success has been a direct result of playing Cuz/JT,Gay,IT, D-Will in the Big Boy Toys line up while limiting the devastation Thornton/Mclemore have has meant this looks like a completely different team.

With the current line up it's Derrick Williams who is the weakest link but that is a good thing considering he's a talented athletic beast, meaning we are a better basketball team in every aspect with those guys playing the bulk of the playing time together.

#Effortless Godsins performance didn't break a sweat other than his Magic Johnson type plays
#IT terrible shooting night but still I can forgive
#Gay....that passing o and that TS% bow down to Rudy
#D-Windmills made excellent cuts and movement off the ball and probably got every Kings fan out of there seat at least 3 times.
#Acy...the man has some skills and the energy is just on another level, excellent team defender and I love the dude
#Jimmer played very well
#JT same as Jimmer played well
#eMTpty and Mclemore 0-8 and you can use that first number to describe the defence they played as well

I agree with most of that
IMO folks give less leeway to IT for some reason who is acclimating to a role with new teammates.We'll know after some time if he can hack it as a starter
Dwill and Acy reviving that bench along with Jimmer, happy for all three
Ofcourse the disappoinTment remains with Ben. Kid was consensus 1-2 for a lot of last year,

 

[I~true]

I guess when you see a guy like Ben not always looking interested it worries some folks.


AND he came fromKansas.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Meaning what?

 

[Bricklayer]

Meaning what?

Well TRob was from Kansas of course, and really they have not turned out stars as a program. Lot of rank and file NBAers, but its been 15 years since Pierce, and before him it was a dozen or so since Manning, and he was a bit of a disappointment.

But really, its notable, but given that there have been at least two coaches during that span I'm not 100% sure it predicts much. Some coaches do have reputations vis a vis certain types of players though.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Wasn't aware that there was a "book" on players not being stars at Kansas. Was also not aware that we drafted McLemore to be a star.

 

[The_Jamal]

Well TRob was from Kansas of course, and really they have not turned out stars as a program. Lot of rank and file NBAers, but its been 15 years since Pierce, and before him it was a dozen or so since Manning, and he was a bit of a disappointment.

But really, its notable, but given that there have been at least two coaches during that span I'm not 100% sure it predicts much. Some coaches do have reputations vis a vis certain types of players though.

Wasn't Rondo Kansas? Or Kentucky?

 

[Bricklayer]

Wasn't Rondo Kansas? Or Kentucky?

Kentucky. And that is a much different book.

 

[Glenn]

I am puzzled by Kansas as they have Wiggins (#1?) and Embiid (another #1) yet the team is ranked 18th in the nation. Why are they not better as a college team? My guess is that the athletically gifted Wiggins is not assertive and that hurts him. He is not a team leader. Embiid is a mass of potential that I think is real and I would take him #1. Put them together on a college team at this point in their basketball lives and you have a #18 team - I guess.

 

[t-rex]

Still not sure what you mean.

Only true star is Gay possibly. Even Cuz outside of our world is not a star yet. Look at the all-star voting. True stars? Really?? Lol.

 

[sdballer]

Only true star is Gay possibly. Even Cuz outside of our world is not a star yet. Look at the all-star voting. True stars? Really?? Lol.

Not even sure what you're saying

 

[t-rex]

Not even sure what you're saying

Just responding to the "true stars" comments earlier . I don't understand it either

 

[bajaden]

I'm sorry. I did not make myself clear. I don't want him to take more shots. I want him to do what he is apparently trying to do which is to make the switch to distributing more and shooting less. I think he is trying. And because he is trying he doesn't seem to be shooting as well. All of which should not only please me but everyone else as well. I brought this up because the theme of this thread seemed to be, gee, IT has not been shooting as well as on the past, what could the matter be. I have outlined in these posts what I think is at the heart of this. If this is to any degree true he should be encouraged by us all and not a discussion of what is at the bottom of this terrible situation.

Sorry, I misunderstood. The problem is, that its hard to get someone to be what their not. IT is great at coming into the game and being aggressive and trying to score. That's sort of like asking an aggressive free swinger in baseball to be patient and draw walks. He might be able to do it, but he's completely out of sorts, and you lose what he's really good at, being aggressive at the plate. IT is the perfect sixth man. While I think he's doing a fairly good job at trying to adjust to his new role, I think it takes away from some of his strengths as well. Unfortunately, we have no other options at the moment. Its obvious to me that the Kings aren't comfortable with IT as the starting PG. They seem to jump at every opportunity to chase a pass first PG everytime one seems to be available, regardless of his age, or even having proof of life.

The Kings are in somewhat of a quandry with IT. He becomes a freeagent at years end, and the question is, how much money will he want, or, how much will another team offer, and will the Kings be willing to pay whatever that amount is? If not, then it wouldn't surprise me to see him traded in a package deal before the trade deadline. I would have to assume that any trade including IT would bring another PG back in return, or perhaps a first round pick, which no team seems to want to give up this year.