[Grades] Grades v. Hornets 11/23/2015

Do we bounce back vs. Milwaukee?

  • Yes, if Cuz is available. No without

    Votes: 42 63.6%
  • Yes, even if Cuz is out.

    Votes: 8 12.1%
  • No, even if Cuz plays.

    Votes: 16 24.2%

  • Total voters
    66
  • Poll closed .
#31
Brandon Knight
Klay
KHAWAI LEONARD
Jimmy Butler
The Kings would be absolutely stellar with any one of these 4, especially the last 2. Both play great D and would be a far better fit at SF than Rudy. Oh, yeah -- those guys can score a bit too.

The really sad thing is that most reports at the time had us very interested in Knight and Leonard, but, instead, we went with the only wrong move we could make.

It just goes to show that one bad decision in the draft really can set a team back several years. And we've done it multiple times in only a few years.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#33
Had George Karl never had a line up of Rondo/Collison in at the same time we win that game by 20-30 points, Gay/Rondo/Cuz/Ben played as well as possible and we lost to a middle tier team who's big man was struggling and there best player this season in Batum got owned by Rudy. Completely inexcusable coaching/loss.

Collison is looking like Ramon Sessions out there lately........WCS for the first time when he was out there was legit terrible but never got a chance to redeem himself.
 
#34
Sad thing is, Cuz is averaging around 30 and 11 and Rondo is averaging around 12.5, 11, and 7.5 and we still can't win.

Both players have been putting up some monster performances yet we cannot capitalize, mostly because the defense has been so dreadful.

But let's not put our best defenders on the floor in a winnable game when a final stop is needed. That's just a silly idea to the Mad Professor.

No wonder George Karl has never won anything meaningful.
 
#38
One thing I loved about Coach Malone is that he would always look to stop momentum of opponent when they would go on bit of run. Karl sits there oblivious.

When Hornets started chipping away and lead went from 22 points to 13 early in the 4th, and after a careless turnover I yelled "timeout"!!! Karl sat there nonplussed and let them play and within another minute the lead was down to 8 points then 4 points before he called a timeout.

This was irresponsible game management especially when you shrink your rotation to 8 players w/o Willie. If nothing else you give let the guys rest as much as mentally regrouping. This may sound like second guessing but it was obvious at the time to me and I am sure most fans it was the appropriate time to stop play.

Its unfortunate to lose this game because the 3rd quarter was the BEST this team has looked all year. There were absolutely running the Hornets out of the building.
 
#39
One thing I loved about Coach Malone is that he would always look to stop momentum of opponent when they would go on bit of run. Karl sits there oblivious.

When Hornets started chipping away and lead went from 22 points to 13 early in the 4th, and after a careless turnover I yelled "timeout"!!! Karl sat there nonplussed and let them play and within another minute the lead was down to 8 points then 4 points before he called a timeout.

This was irresponsible game management especially when you shrink your rotation to 8 players w/o Willie. If nothing else you give let the guys rest as much as mentally regrouping. This may sound like second guessing but it was obvious at the time to me and I am sure most fans it was the appropriate time to stop play.

Its unfortunate to lose this game because the 3rd quarter was the BEST this team has looked all year. There were absolutely running the Hornets out of the building.
Notice the good coaches stop momentum asap (Kerr, pop, thibs, Malone)
 
#41
This was a very tough loss for reasons that have already been mentioned. I just have a couple things to bring up.

First off, Cauley-Stein needs to see more action. I don't care that he is a rookie. His defense is way too valuable to leave on the bench. Every game we should be logging 80+ minutes across Cousins, Cauley-Stein, & Koufos (35/25/20). Do you know how many times those players have played 80 min or more in a game this season? Zero times. All three bigs are good defenders with one of them being a beast offensively (Cousins), one of them being average offensively (Koufos), and the other being below average offensively (Cauley-Stein). These aren't all one trick ponies. These players should get significant minutes each and every game.

Just to throw some stats out there...

Looking at all the games Cousins was healthy (9 games total), we went 4-1 when our three bigs logged 70 or more minutes in the game (LAL, SA, DET, BKN, @ORL) which is about a 35/20/15 minute distribution for Cousins/Koufos/Cauley-Stein, and in those 5 games, we gave up 102.4 PPG while scoring 105.8 PPG (+3.4 Net). During the remaining 4 games where we did not play Cousins, Koufos, & Cauley-Stein at least 70 minutes, we went 1-3 while scoring 107.5 PPG but giving up 110.5 PPG (-3.0 Net).

Karl needs to get a clue very quickly. Any competent coach would not handicap his team much like Karl has done thus far. You have 3 good rim protectors. Why are you scared to use them? This team is built to protect the rim, protect the paint, dominate the glass, and play inside/out. I think part of the reason is that this team isn't built to fit Karl's strengths as a coach. Karl is trying to play his game while the team is trying to play their's. A great coach is able to adapt to the team's strengths while an average coach tries to have the team adapt to the coach's strengths. It's obvious that Karl & this roster are not the best match, but you have to hope Karl figures it out. Firing him is too risky and puts this season in jeopardy, and him continuing to coach this way is not going to maximize our team's potential. It's a frustrating predicament we are in.

Secondly, Collison is not working out. I love him to death and have no doubt he can be a solid contributor on a playoff team, but I still have yet to see any glimpses of how a Rondo/Collison pairing will work. We look more competitive with him off the floor right now, and that's not a knock on him. He's out of his element having to guard SGs on a regular basis while having to constantly defer ball handling duties to Rondo. I think it could benefit us if we moved him for someone who compliments the core. We have 3 guys who should be logging 35+ MPG in Cousins, Gay, & Rondo. We shouldn't be having primary backups behind those guys (especially ones who aren't versatile enough to play another position). Collison is good Rondo insurance for the short term, but if Rondo keeps up this level of play, we have to heavily consider moving Collison for complimentary pieces particularly if the Rondo/Collison pairing continues to struggle.

Having said that, I don't see a great trading partner. Utah and Chicago are probably the two teams that would have the most interest (maybe the Pelicans if they think a Collison/Evans backcourt would be a solid pairing, and if they'd like to move on from one of Holiday or Gordon). I think Burks from Utah would be a great fit, but I know Utah likes him a lot. It might be one of those things where we'll need to stick it out and see who becomes available or which teams are having injuries at PG when the deadline approaches.
 
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#43
The start of overtime felt like a pivotal moment for the first part of the season. Win that 5-minute game without Cousins, move up to 6-9, gain some confidence for the rest of the starting unit and erase that embarrasing 22-point Hornets comeback from memory. Check the schedule to see when .500 can be reached. Or, door number two, lose this overtime and the team will keep on losing whenever Cousins is out. Start thinking about a coaching change again after everything that went wrong in this game.
 
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#44
We were up 22 and only had two shots in the paint from that point forward. We tried to be a perimeter team our fg% plummeted because of it and they chipped away because theirs increased. Cousins got the ball in the low post twice the whole game. The rest was perimeter or a few times facing up from elbow to drive.

When your up by 22 you close out the game by slowing it down and posting up getting to foul line. Instead we did what we did which is George Karl ball and it bit us in the ass.
And even I can't defend our playstyle this time.
The last defensive possession was downright embarassing. Walker shaked his head in disbelieve and had every right to do so.
But no matter, if there is a 7 footer on the floor or not. Gay is 6'9 with long arms. Walker had a wide open, uncontested layup. Gotta do better than that.
 
#45
Isolated observation (I'm not blaming him for anything tonight)
Rudy Gay has cost the Kings dearly on critical possessions on defense, giving up the back-breaking basket how many times this year already?

Karl HAS to take him out on defense or this will continue all season long.

I'm so done watching Collison suck the momentum out of this team. It seems like every time he's subbed in with Rondo on the floor, there is a fritz in the system and the whole team short-circuits.

How can the Kings fanbase make it clear to the Kings organization and coaching the mistakes Karl is making?
The points y'all have been making (since before the season began) about Karl's failures to utilize this team seem so eminently logical, yet he keeps making the same mistakes and seems unwilling to change.
I don't hear these things mentioned on the radio or "print" or the internet much, outside of fan sites.
When does the fanbase become pissed off enough and vocal enough to be heard?
 
#46
This loss has been eating away at me. I just don't know what to do with Collison anymore. As I see it, there are three paths we could take:

1. Trade Collison for players who don't play the same position as our top tiered players - If we were able to reallocate Collison's talent to another position like SG (Burks, Fournier, Oladipo, Bradley, Bazemore, etc.), our team would be more balanced.

2. Correct the two PG lineup/rotation - we can continue giving the Rondo/Collison pairing time to figure things out in hope that they find some chemistry, but in the meantime, the surrounding players need to be corrected immediately by Karl. If we're going to go small with two PGs, let's not continue to give the opposing team mismatches by also going small at SF & PF. Just because you are small in one position, it doesn't mean you have to go small in the next position up. They are not dominoes. I really don't want to see McLemore or Belinelli in the game when Rondo & Collison are playing PG & SG. If Cousins is in the game with Rondo & Collison, I want Casspi at SF and Cauley-Stein/Koufos as the other big. If Cousins is not in the game with Rondo & Collison, I want Gay at SF, Cauley-Stein at PF, & Koufos at C. I think these lineups could have much more success than the Rondo/Collison lineups Karl has been throwing out there lately.

3. Reduce Collison's minutes - We have depth now. There is no shame in that. A player's talent shouldn't dictate how many minutes he gets. A player's talent relative to his teammates should dictate how many minutes he gets. Rondo is better than Collison and should be taking up the majority of the PG minutes. We also have two competent shooting guards in McLemore (well at least for now) & Belinelli. If we were to reduce his role to 20 MPG for example, we would still get a player who can put up a lot of points in those 20 minutes, but we would be limiting the time he plays with Rondo thus reducing the risk of being exploited by bigger SGs that he has to defend.

I'm in favor of the second option since it gives us a chance to make our current roster work, but Karl needs to experiment with this roster. Out of the 725 minutes played this year, he's only played that lineup for 10 minutes and 18 seconds. That's a little over 1%. This lineup should be able to handle the defensive side of the ball more effecitvely than Karl's traditional Rondo/Collison/Belinelli/Casspi/Koufos lineups.

When Karl goes small, he really likes to go small. Normally small ball is when a team rolls with a smaller SG (6'2"-6'3") or uses a SF as a PF, but Karl seems enamored with going all out in every position he can (e.g., Rondo/Collison/McLemore/Casspi/Cousins). If Karl can just stick to a simple rule such as only going small in one position at a time, I think most of us would be willing to accept/understand that considering Collison, Belinelli, & Casspi are all good players and they'll likely need to play up a position to play a decent amount of minutes.
 
#47
Why do we melt down at the end of halves? Why can't we play any defense?!?!? How could we let them come from 22 points down? How are we supposed to make headway when we can't beat anyone? We needed defense bad but WCS sat on the bench. This game was hard to take. the same old kings. I need a break.
 
#48
Why do we melt down at the end of halves? Why can't we play any defense?!?!? How could we let them come from 22 points down? How are we supposed to make headway when we can't beat anyone? We needed defense bad but WCS sat on the bench. This game was hard to take. the same old kings. I need a break.
Not only do our players beat themselves with unforced turnovers, but the coach beats themselves with his ridiculous rotations. It's hard to win games when you have those two forces working against you on a regular basis.

Imagine how good we would be if we simply got out of our own way?
 
#49
Oh, and if the Kings are going to keep throwing the ball away and stop playing hard/smart as soon as the other team starts playing badly, they're not going to make the playoffs this year.

It's getting to be pretty predictable; as soon as the Kings start to think they've "got" the other team, they start throwing away possessions and shooting long jumpers instead of playing hard and pulling away from them (or stepping on their throats when they have the lead).

This psychological flaw in the team HAS to be fixed, or this season's goal will be unreachable.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#51
Honestly if Cousins is out for any significant amount of time that's the final nail in the coffin for GK, not only has he killed us with the 2 PG crap but he's not developing WCS or even giving him a chance to redeem some of his mistakes. I know we want to make the playoffs but to me WCS development right now is just as important and it's not like hes Nik or Ben of previous year where he's a legit liability he's played below average only twice (today was one) and that's in limited minutes where he was never given a second chance.
 
I

Im Still Ballin

Guest
#52
I like the offense Karl has them running, but I hate the lineups. So sporadic. Sometimes it pays off, most of the time it doesn't

I think the defensive style we are playing has loads of potential.... But it NEEDS WCS... He's the enabler which makes switching on pick and rolls a viable strategy

That Rondo-McLemore-Gay-WCS-Cousins lineup is gold. It needs more minutes...

I love that he's getting a lot from the bench, but it can't come at the expense of a starting lineup... Tinkering it from day to day i just don't like. He's gotten the most out of Rondo....

Hell there's some great things Karl has done, but alot of headscratchers too...
 
#57
Karl, Karl, Karl......

This isn't about the team needing time to gel.... this is systemic.

Switching defense is gimmicky garbage.

Small ball and pace is retarded for our roster. Doesn't take genius to see that.

He's misusing Rudy. Honestly, I still believe he's misusing Cuz. Cuz effectively hitting 3s and driving on slower bigs speaks more to the Boogie's ridiculous talent than Karl's ridiculous use of said talent.

One also has to wonder.... could Cuz's injuries be related to the pace/what he's asked to do in Karl's trash system? He's a pretty big guy... running around like that can't be great on the lower extremities.

Awful all around.

And to think, I was excited to have George here.... I'm feeling bamboozled! Hoodwinked even!
they're going to ruin cousins body soon. he's not built to run and down court like willie is. they did this to him last year with all the stupid PACE PACE PACE crap. gotta thank the owner for his retarded vision of run & run nellie ball.
 
#58
We gave up 62 points in the paint to a team we should have had an interior advantage against and played our defensive big 8 minutes
I disagree with a lot of people on the supposed downfall of small-ball for us, but his lack of use of WCS is inexcusable and my biggest complaint with Karl this season. He's not Ben or Nik in year 1 where it was clear they weren't ready for big minutes. He's insanely raw offensively, but he's been a solid rebounder (something we weren't sure he'd be prior to the season) and clearly makes one of the worst defensive teams in the league better when he's on the floor.
 
#59
Watching Kemba go to the rack layup after layup, knowing he's not a fantastic mid-range shooter, and knowing he's going to get the ball at the end of the game. I could ask my girlfriend who barely watches basketball what to do. It would be to put in someone that can protect the rim. So what does he do? Rondo, Collison, Marco, Cassipi, and Gay? The guy is totally clueless with his rotations and it's embarrassing. There's no excuse for this record with this kind of talent.

Another thing people aren't thinking about is that we're wasting away any chance of keeping Rondo at the end of the season. He's already brought his value back way higher than it was last season. There will be teams lining up to sign him. Why would he stay here? Ugh so frustrating.
 
#60
Speaking of Kemba, he's really put it all together this season and has absolutely been a top 10 PG this year. He's been toeing that line of being a Monta Ellis chucker with a bit more reserve/playmaking ability, but he looks really solid. Would really like to see this Hornets team with MKG healthy and all the talent they have on the wings with Kemba, Lamb, Batum, MKG and Hairston. If they can get Zeller or Frank the Tank to pan out, can easily see this team being a 45-50 win team in the near future.