Grades v. Heat 01/22

Status
Not open for further replies.

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#1
Peja ( C+ ) -- gave us little in the early going and found himself on the bench along with several other sluggish starters for the bulk of the second quarter. But came out of the break with more oomph, knocked down a couple of perimeter shots, and all of a sudden Mr. Third Quarter was back. Scored 13 of his 19 in that quarter, and helped keep us close there for a while. Unfortunately did the normal disappearing act in the 4th as the Heat pulled away, and all of a sudden the threes weren't falling, the layups had no chance, and neither did we. Its a very tired act. On the flipside should be noted that he continued his solid boardwork with 7. Which maintains his January boarding average at a very respectable 7.5. Unfortunately it comes attached to 36% shooting and all around softness. All of a sudden we have Keith Van Horn on our team.
Thomas ( C ) -- nothing early, led to an early removal in favor of Reef at PF -- kind of reminds me of the dynamic last year when Darius was starting and KT gradually overtook him. In fact after returning a few minutes later he found himself at SF alongside Reef for the rest of the half, and Kenny did much better at that position and helped us control the glass during our big second quarter. Returned to PF to start the 3rd, and again was very limited in his effectiveness. And of course also caused us additional problems in there against Shaq, because it meant that we effectively only had one defender at a time in there that could bother the big guy in the least.
Miller ( D+ ) -- Reminded me of the good ole days of playing the Diesel with our center spending most of the game on the bench in foul trouble. Chewed up by Shaq in the early going and forced to the bench with 2 fouls midway through the first quarter. Was much better when he returned in the 2nd quarter and made some minor all around contributions. But to start the second half it was right back to the beating and the bench with fouls. Ended up with 9pts 5fls and 24 total minutes. Gets penalized in this grade a bit because frankly Shaq is not THAT hard to guard at this point in his career. Brad was his own personal fountain of youth. Our 15pt 8reb center got dominated by their 18pt 9reb center.
Martin ( D ) -- continued his recent road futility, and his starting OG debuts against the league's elite OGs recently have not gone well. A very quiet first quarter led to him getting a seat next to Rick in favor of Cisco. Returned in the third and made a few contributions -- a layup, a three, but also mixed in a bad turnover and just a general...malaise. No spark.
Bibby ( C ) -- did all our early scoring, but JWill was just running circles around him on the other end. And in an interesting development, Jason Hart and his hustle actually kept Mike pinned to the bench for almost the entire second quarter. And Mike never seemed to really get going after that. Had 10 pts in about the first 5 minutes, 7 for the rest of the game. And meanwhile JWill was great and just running, pressing, attacking, and generally making Mike look slow and overmatched.
Skinner ( B+ ) -- Brian really should thank Shaq as he got major minutes tonight with Brad's foul trouble. Gave us a better physical presence in there and a boost on the glass, although he was still overwhelmed at times by the old but massive Shaq and Mourning combo. Still about as good a performance as you could hope for from a Brian Skinner level player given who he was playing.
Reef ( B- ) -- came off the bench after Thomas was ineffective early, and gave us solid minutes in the first half slipped in between Skinner at C and KT at SF. Had 11 pts, and along with Cisco was really the major force in pulling us back into this one. But was not nearly as effective in the second half. Battled decently on the glass, but didn't come down with many. And just could not finish inside against the Shaq + Mourning combo. Zo in particular was having a blockfest.
Garcia ( B+ ) -- came off the bench and gave us a great first half in place of the ineffective Kevin Martin at OG. Was smoothly stroking that shaky jumper, and in general playing an in control game. Unfortunately not nearly as effective after returning in the 4th. And I suspect part of that was Riley chewing some *** at halftime and making adjustments aimed at actually guarding the rook. In any case, was the main guy who brought us back with 12 second quarter points, but only got 2 in his ineffective second half minutes as the Heat pulled away once more.
Hart ( C+ ) -- in an interesting move, came in and actually got most of the second quarter minutes at PG, keeping Mike pinned to the bench. And was effective as we clawed back into it with our benchers. Worked well with Brad there for a stretch, running some of our cuts and pops. Like many of our guys, did not do much in the second half, and barely had a chance to. Think he only logged two minutes in the second half. Which was...odd given our defensive collapse.
Sampson ( INC ) -- garbagetime
Price ( INC ) -- garbagetime, missed a couple of shots in the last minute which I know must have badly upset my mom, who's basketball acumen is such that she considers it a major milestone if we score 100, win or lose.

Adelman ( C+ ) -- well...hrrrmph. You knew this was likely a loss coming in, but the Kings did tease us there for a bit. Fought back after a terrible defensive first quarter to make a game of it, and I think even go up 5 at one point in the 3rd. But as has happened so often, the Heat squeezed us, we are completely incapable of squeezing anybody else, and what was briefly a close game turned into a blowout with the home team pulling further and further away. We seemed to have no answer for Shaq, with Rick taking what I think would have been my attitude and figuring he's not dangerous enough to double team much anymore. Oops. But the bigger problem may have been JWill and the ridiculously amazingly open rim on our defensive end. The Heat scored 70 points in the paint against us. 70!!! And it wasn't just Shaq. It was whoever wanted to get to the rim. JWill in particular really hurt us by attacking us inside as aggressively as I have ever seen him do. And we had nothing in there to stop him. We scored 99 points tonight. Not great. But not bad either. If we score 99 yesterday in regulation we blow Orlando out by 25! But we gave up 119, which is 20pts over the Heat's season average. That was where the game was lost. The Heat shot 60% against us, and James Posey was the only major minute player to shoot under .500 (2-9). So what about Rick's role? Well, other than the early decision not to double Shaq, Rick made what seemed to be game-altering changes early in this one. Peja, Bibby, Martin...really just all of the starters, were simply not getting it done defensively as the Heat raced off to a scorching 37pt first quarter while fastbreaking off of almost every Kings miss. And Rick recognized that and qucikly went to the bench. His hand was forced with Skinner, who was next up on the unenviable Guard Shaq list after Brad got into foul trouble. But Rick also brought in Cisco (for Martin) Reef (for Peja), went bigger, slowed the game down a bit. And then also had Hart take most of Mike's 2nd quarter minutes. The result was a slower paced, more defensive unit that frustrated the Heat reserves and slowly dragged us back into it. But it was not to be, and we could not sustain. The starters came out looking better in the third, but we could never get any real separation, and as the Heat turned up the...well, heat :D, neither the starters nor the suddenly ineffective bench could stem the tide. The only substitution oddity there was Hart, who had been efffective in the first half. Rick played 8 guys between 21 and 35 min looking for spark, but Jason only got 12 min on the game, and 10 of them came in the first half. Rarely will you hear me complaining about Jason not getting minutes, but it did seem odd given how the first had gone. Am assuming Rick was probably just clutching his lucky Bibby doll and hoping that Mike could summon up one more great 4th quarter to bail us out. In any case, overall would have been a tough win to get. Thought Rick made good moves in the first half to give us a chance. Not so sure about the second half, but also not at all sure there were moves to really be made. A lot of guys had their chances, but defensively in particular we just could not slow the Heat down. So 0-2 to start the trip. Now into Philly, followed by 3 sub-.500 teams. This roadtrip can still be salvaged and end up decently, but we need to get over the hump here one of these games before things spiral.

JWill -- Just a note, not a grade, but didn't JWill look great? About as good as I've seen him play. Very very aggressive and just flying down the court right at the rim.
 
Last edited:

SLAB

Hall of Famer
#2
Bibby...C...Subpar night from Bibby...Shot was off pretty much all night, and there wasn't much more to say than that...Redeemed himself with 8 assits, though.

Martin...D-...Completly ineffective tonight...Nonexistant on the offensive end, nonexistant on the boards...The inconsistancy continues to plauge him.

Peja...C-...Other than his third quarter "explosion" was mostly completly ineffective tonght...Continues to miss a lot of open shots...However, he has been showing a nice little bit of rebounding ability...Without his renewed rebounding skills, Peja would be garnering F's night in and night out...The shot will fall again, and hopefully the rebounding will remain the same.

Thomas...C-...
Again, another starter completly innefective on the offensive end...Also on defense letting Udonis Haslem score 16 on 8-12 shooting...Continues to show he can rebound with the better of them when given the minutes, which I like.

Miller...F...
The numbers may garner more of a D, but was completly worked by Shaq all night...Got in foul trouble, went to the bench...Came back, and got worked again...Not a good outing from Brad.

Hart...C+...Played defense, and didn't hurt us on offense.

Cisco...B+/A-...Shot really well from the field, and followed his defense on Kobe with some decent defense on Wade...Limited his mistakes tonight, as well...A very good game from Cisco.

SAR...D...
Not the efficent offensive machine we've seen so far this year...Took 9 shots to score 11 points...Also was once again invisible on the glass...Doesn't get an F only because of respect for him playing through his injury.

Skinner...A...
Came in for Brad Miller, and proved he could be a capable backup...Played good defense on Shaq, and rebounded the ball very nicely...And if that's not enough, he also contributed on the offensive end with 9 points, on 4-5 shooting...IF this game doesn't prompt Rick to play Skinner more, I'll be very upset.

Price...INC...
Garbagetime...And it seems like he's missed every shot he's taken since his little outburst a while back...I guess he's not the spark people were hoping for.

Sampson...INC...
Garbagetime...Scored...Good for him.

By the way, where was Corliss tonight? DNP-CD, or was he not with the team for some reason?
 

SLAB

Hall of Famer
#4
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
Hard to be consistent when the coach has apparently taken a "one mistake and you're out... for the rest of the game" policy. He was doing a good enough job early in the first and early in the third; maybe he didn't spend enough time standing in the corner for the coach's liking...

I've noticed so far that since Stojakovic and Abdur-Rahim has returned, Martin has not played with the aggression that he was when they were out. I strongly suspect that Adelman has a problem with wing players who are more comfortable driving to the basket than shooting three-pointers, which would also explain some of the issues that he had with Wallace... I'm guessing that my "one mistake" theorem is correct and that he feels Adelman "breating down his neck," so to speak, and it is causing him to play more tentatively. He knows that when they were out, Adelman pretty much had no choice but to play him, and so he played loose. But now that they're back, Adelman feels like he doesn't have to be patient with Martin, and so he's not willing to let him play through his mistakes, like he does with others, and it's causing Martin to play tight.
Great points...

And I completly agree.
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#5
When Peja is in, Kevin becomes 5th option. Thats why he looks a lot less aggresive. He is way less involved. The idea is to get shots for Peja, and Kevin is supposed to stand out of the way and be ready for an open look (that never seems to come!)
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#6
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
Hard to be consistent when the coach has apparently taken a "one mistake and you're out... for the rest of the game" policy. He was doing a good enough job early in the first and early in the third; maybe he didn't spend enough time standing in the corner for the coach's liking...

I've noticed so far that since Stojakovic and Abdur-Rahim has returned, Martin has not played with the aggression that he was when they were out. I strongly suspect that Adelman has a problem with wing players who are more comfortable driving to the basket than shooting three-pointers, which would also explain some of the issues that he had with Wallace... I'm guessing that my "one mistake" theorem is correct and that he feels Adelman "breating down his neck," so to speak, and it is causing him to play more tentatively. He knows that when they were out, Adelman pretty much had no choice but to play him, and so he played loose. But now that they're back, Adelman feels like he doesn't have to be patient with Martin, and so he's not willing to let him play through his mistakes, like he does with others, and it's causing Martin to play tight.
That's about the best probable explanation for what's happening as any I could expect to see...and quite frankly, it has me pretty agitated. Kevin Martin IMHO has too much potential and talent to end up being the whipping boy for any coach. I didn't pay as much attention to Gerald Wallace when he was here, but based on this attitude of ADelman's towards the young man, I have to wonder if perhaps I was somewhat unfair in my assessment of Gerald.

:(
 
#7
SacTownKid said:
When Peja is in, Kevin becomes 5th option. Thats why he looks a lot less aggresive. He is way less involved. The idea is to get shots for Peja, and Kevin is supposed to stand out of the way and be ready for an open look (that never seems to come!)

agreed, im not sure why he has so much faith in garcia, i know he is doing good..but dont forget what kevin did.
 
#8
When Peja is in, I see more of a bunch of players standing around at the three point line and just kinda rotating around the three point line and occasionally stepping past it... While when he is out and K-Mart and Cisco are in, I see more cutting and movement. Not nessecarily Peja's fault, I would rather see him around the three point line too, but just not the other guys... Sucks for Martin who isn't much of a three point shooter. And it shuts down the lane for him as well...
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#9
kingsfan52miller said:
agreed, im not sure why he has so much faith in garcia, i know he is doing good..but dont forget what kevin did.
My guess would be that, unlike Martin, Garcia is perfectly content to stand outside the three-point line and wait for the pass; it's certainly not like Garcia's not making mistakes of his own...
 
O

ONEZERO

Guest
#10
see this is why u gotta take every game that u can.. last night was a sure win up 4 with a min left... miami game even before we played seemed like a likely loss so winning yesterdays game wouldve helped..
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#11
kingsfan52miller said:
agreed, im not sure why he has so much faith in garcia, i know he is doing good..but dont forget what kevin did.
Here's one difference -- I think Cisco's basketball I.Q. is considerably suspect. The brain gets turned off far too often for me to consider him remotely reliable. But he brings it. He is aggressive. He steps on the court he wants to be aggressive. Kevin...does not inspire confidence because he can be every bit as passive as any of our weenies. Just mental softness and gets himself psyched out. There is no coach based excuse for a guy to score 22 ppts, 25pts, then go in a funk and not be able to reach double figures. That's on the player. He's got potential, but just like Peja or Reef or anybody else not getting it done, its on Kevin to bring it every night. No matter what else is going on, he should be busting his *** and playing aggressively every minute he is on the floor. Otherwise, how can you trust him? How would you like to have a teammate who might completely disappear on you at any given game? Would you trust him? Rely on him? Feature him? Kevin can go 2-9, have a bad night, and still be "dependable". Still be playing the same game and just missing. But when he barely even blips on the radar, plays 100% different from game to game...well, that's how the mistake prone hustler can get his minutes. At least you can count on the hustle. Know what you're going to get. Kevin isn't going to just be handed minutes because he's a nice kid. Peja and Reef have career averages almost as high as Kevin's career GAME. He wants those shots, that role, to be an impact player? Then he has to take them with superior play.
 
#12
VF21 said:
That's about the best probable explanation for what's happening as any I could expect to see...and quite frankly, it has me pretty agitated. Kevin Martin IMHO has too much potential and talent to end up being the whipping boy for any coach. I didn't pay as much attention to Gerald Wallace when he was here, but based on this attitude of ADelman's towards the young man, I have to wonder if perhaps I was somewhat unfair in my assessment of Gerald.

:(
Well look at Gerald now..
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#13
Bricklayer said:
Here's one difference -- I think Cisco's basketball I.Q. is considerably suspect. The brain gets turned off far too often for me to consider him remotely reliable. But he brings it. He is aggressive. He steps on the court he wants to be aggressive. Kevin...does not inspire confidence because he can be every bit as passive as any of our weenies. Just mental softness and gets himself psyched out. There is no coach based excuse for a guy to score 22 ppts, 25pts, then go in a funk and not be able to reach double figures. That's on the player. He's got potential, but just like Peja or Reef or anybody else not getting it done, its on Kevin to bring it every night. No matter what else is going on, he should be busting his *** and playing aggressively every minute he is on the floor. Otherwise, how can you trust him? How would you like to have a teammate who might completely disappear on you at any given game? Would you trust him? Rely on him? Feature him? Kevin can go 2-9, have a bad night, and still be "dependable". Still be playing the same game and just missing. But when he barely even blips on the radar, plays 100% different from game to game...well, that's how the mistake prone hustler can get his minutes. At least you can count on the hustle. Know what you're going to get. Kevin isn't going to just be handed minutes because he's a nice kid. Peja and Reef have career averages almost as high as Kevin's career GAME. He wants those shots, that role, to be an impact player? Then he has to take them with superior play.
You know, that's all well and good but there comes a time when you have to address the inequality in how the two players are treated. Kevin makes ONE bad pass and he's benched. Garcia makes two or three bonehead plays and he's still in the game. Why. Because he "hustles"?

I don't think the whole thing is quite as simple as that. Or maybe it is... and that's really a shame. We have TWO very talented young men who have shown the potential to do very good things. They should both be alloted the same leeway to make mistakes but it seems to me that simply isn't the case.
 
#14
Good grades overall Brick..

I am done. I am going ON STRIKE until this team plays with some backbone or something is changed!!!

Talk to everyone later!
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#16
STK - Not to burst your bubble or anything, but going on strike is generally only effective if the thing you're protesting is affected by your picketing. I don't think the Kings are going to change as a direct result of you being on strike, so you might as well stick it out with the rest of us.

;)
 
#18
VF21 said:
STK - Not to burst your bubble or anything, but going on strike is generally only effective if the thing you're protesting is affected by your picketing. I don't think the Kings are going to change as a direct result of you being on strike, so you might as well stick it out with the rest of us.

;)
Maybe you're right. But I am still going to give it a shot!

And if the Kings win the championship this year, I'll take all the credit! :D

GO KINGS!!!

Later.
 
#19
i totlay agree!!!

SacTownKid said:
When Peja is in, Kevin becomes 5th option. Thats why he looks a lot less aggresive. He is way less involved. The idea is to get shots for Peja, and Kevin is supposed to stand out of the way and be ready for an open look (that never seems to come!)

and i think peja should come off the bench let cisco start cicsco and martinb is a better duel then peja and martiin what u guys trhink?
 
#20
VF21 said:
You know, that's all well and good but there comes a time when you have to address the inequality in how the two players are treated. Kevin makes ONE bad pass and he's benched. Garcia makes two or three bonehead plays and he's still in the game. Why. Because he "hustles"?

I don't think the whole thing is quite as simple as that. Or maybe it is... and that's really a shame. We have TWO very talented young men who have shown the potential to do very good things. They should both be alloted the same leeway to make mistakes but it seems to me that simply isn't the case.
I agree, and my feeling is, if adelman wants to give garcia alot of minutes thats fine, but I think that the minutes should be distributed as deserved by the 2 guys, and IMO i dont think that 1 turnover should get someone benched a good majority of the game.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#21
VF21 said:
You know, that's all well and good but there comes a time when you have to address the inequality in how the two players are treated. Kevin makes ONE bad pass and he's benched. Garcia makes two or three bonehead plays and he's still in the game. Why. Because he "hustles"?

I don't think the whole thing is quite as simple as that. Or maybe it is... and that's really a shame. We have TWO very talented young men who have shown the potential to do very good things. They should both be alloted the same leeway to make mistakes but it seems to me that simply isn't the case.
Cisco is flat out doing more in his minutes. More good. More bad. Just more. Kevin came out in this game and did NOTHING in the first quarter. Who's that on? Even in the games he's struggled in, he's still getting 20+ min, and he's just not giving anybody any excuse to play him more. He's making it very easy for the coach to take him out of the game, because frankly he's been irrelevant.

Last 9 games:

01/08 21min 2pts
01/10 32min 6pts
01/11 18min 5pts
01/13 25min 6pts
01/15 43min 22pts
01/17 39min 25pts
01/19 17min 7pts
01/21 22min 7pts
01/22 22min 5pts

In which one of those down games was Kevin saying "no, keep me in!"? He's getting the minutes to show something...and just isn't. I am no more impressed with finding someone else to blame in Kevin's case than I am/was in Peja's. Its on him. Just play young man. Nobody's going to give you anything, and a couple of good performances a month prove NOTHING, beside that you have untapped ability. But its up to you to have the guts and drive to tap it. If Rick starts benching him when he's going good, then that's on Rick. If Rick quits playing him altogetehr, then that's on Rick. But you're starting, getting 8-10min in the first, 8-10 more in the third, and whatever other minutes you earn. That's more than enough time to show something, if you have anything to show.
 
Last edited:
#24
Yeah, seems kinda low. I coulda sworn the Heat had more than 70 pts total. Else, this would imply they couldn't get a layup a few times down the court.
 
#25
Bricklayer said:
... Kevin...does not inspire confidence because he can be every bit as passive as any of our weenies. Just mental softness and gets himself psyched out. There is no coach based excuse for a guy to score 22 ppts, 25pts, then go in a funk and not be able to reach double figures. That's on the player. He's got potential, but just like Peja or Reef or anybody else not getting it done, its on Kevin to bring it every night. No matter what else is going on, he should be busting his *** and playing aggressively every minute he is on the floor. Otherwise, how can you trust him? How would you like to have a teammate who might completely disappear on you at any given game? Would you trust him? Rely on him? ...
It's the Peja effect. The team bogs down when Peja is playing.

The Lakers don't count, that was different. I want to see more Martin and Garcia playing together, especially if we know for sure we're not going to make the playoffs.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.