[Grades] Grades v. Hawks 11/16/2012

If Rick Adelman were coaching this team, what would our final record be this year?

  • 51+ wins

    Votes: 1 1.7%
  • 45-50 wins

    Votes: 10 16.9%
  • 40-44 wins

    Votes: 21 35.6%
  • 35-39 wins

    Votes: 13 22.0%
  • 30-34 wins

    Votes: 8 13.6%
  • 25-29 wins

    Votes: 2 3.4%
  • 24 or fewer wins

    Votes: 4 6.8%

  • Total voters
    59
  • Poll closed .

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Ok, this team just keeps on giving doesn't it? Its really started to feel like another of our annual coach has lost the team debacles. But as I have mentioend elsewhere, we just guaranteed that coach another year of millions, and he can no doubt bedazzle the Brothers Dim with a formidable stream of B.S., so the fire the coach option may not be available. not sure it would matter anyway with our standards for hiring replacements.

I said I wouldn't throw up another group of girls to the wolves here, but damn if this doesn't desrve it. Not sure how many people are going to be reading no matter what I put up the way this is going. Anyway, onto the mess:

Boxscore

Edit: I have decided what this forum really needs is happy songs!

Stats: 17min 2pts (1-7, 0-1, 0-0) 0reb 1ast 2stl 0blk 1TO
Johnson ( F ) -- don't know what to say here. Just looks lost and has lost his game. If Smart's little you got a green light/do whatever you want to pep talk was supposed to help him, methinks it backfired. This time out maybe looked a little better on offense early. As in for the first 3-4min. Very briefly seemed just a little more in control on his drives, and made a nice pass. And then that was it. Started to struggle again, could not space the floor, wasn't even that terribly effective on defense against Smith, as I think the offensive struggles have begun to become such a distraction its bleeding over. Still isn't rebounding yet either, and per minute this was one of the better rebounding SFs in the game last year. Started the third a mess, missing an open corner three, then got scored over in the post by Smth, forced up a bad shot, and went over to take a seat next to Smart for the rest of the game. Would nto be surprised if he's still sitting in it at the start of next game, as I suspecct he's played himself out of the starting role now.

Stats: 33min 19pts (8-12, 0-0, 3-5) 10reb 0ast 0stl 0blk 2TO
Thompson ( B+ ) -- here's where we're at -- Jason Thompson. Remember wild Jason Thompson? Followed by wildly erratic Jason Thompson? Yeah, well now you can him "the rock" Jason Thompson. He's basically our most consistent guy. And in this one there was a lot of work for a consistent guy to do. Hit an early jumper and got off to a good start. Was basically outplaying Al Horford for most of the night, and most of Horford's production came against other Kings. Got upended and took a hard spill on his gluteus maximus late in the first, but showed no ill effects. All game long was being productive as a secondary passer, a finisher of plays our flashier guys were leaving around the rim, and being the steady outlet guy when they drew lots of attention. Everything else may be a mess, but JT at least is showing how you are supposed to play "the other big". Still nothing exceptional enough here to warrant an A type grade, especially given the overall game results.

Stats: 36min 9pts (4-15, 0-0, 0-1) 16reb 7ast 2stl 0blk 2TO
Cousins ( D+ ) -- what to do with this one? No single grade can really encompass it. Came back looking like he'd been out two months, not two games. Sloppy, out of rhythm, you would have thought there was rust dripping off him. And was basically near sulk mode from the beginning, looking out of sorts, getting another technical etc.. All the stuff you could not have him be upon returning, he was. Bad decisions on offense were leading to wild forced shots and turnovers. Embarrassingly got a gimme dunk from Thornton at the end of the first and did not get any lift and got stuffed by the front of the rim. Committed a third foul chasing a terrible drive and shot. It was just fugly. Was piling up rebounds at a steady rate, but it wasn't until the stretch when he realy began to dominate in there, and my early notes in fact were about all the ones he should have got but did not. Normally he wins the scrums, not tonight until the 4th. Nonetheless, when a guy grabs 16 its not his fault you lose the rebounding battle -- Cuz and JT got theirs, the problem was nobody else is helping out at all now. Defensively seemed a step slow and out of position all night, but what pepped this grade up, along with the rebounding totals, was the sudden return of Cousins as passer, as he had his biggest passing game since the end of his rookie season when he looked to be auditioning as a new CWebb. I have no idea whetehr that was his idea, Smart's, whether we'll see it next game or not, but our center notched 7 assists as we as a team notched 25 -- and proved that notching a lot of assists alone doesn't = pretty ball. Was dominating the glass late, but continued to hurt us with some sincerely terrible what was he thinking shots, and then when it was obvious it wasn't happening for us, kinda quit on defense. Your center notches 16rebs and 7assists and mildly threatens a triple double, there has to be some grade. But for a guy who has to be "the" guy, and who you are counting on to magically pull us out of another death spiral, this was bad. No leadership at all, and in fact his highly erratic play probably helped demoralize everybody else.

Stats: 27min 14pts (5-11, 1-2, 3-4) 0reb 1ast 1stl 0blk 2TO
Evans ( C- ) -- well, first the good news: lost in all the bad vibes of the last week, Reke's jumepr has been coming around a bit. He hit several last game, and looked online with the rest. And tonight again he knocked down several long ones, including a long three (I thought it was two threes, but one must have been foot on the line) with hsi feet set, which is actually exactly the shot you need him to have to space the floor when off the ball. Now for the bad news: most everything else. The jumpers are looking a little better, but if anything he's getting less involved and having less impact per game. We seemed to swing the offensive initiating back more toward IT this time, and that led to a brief burst of effective generalship by IT in the first before Teague ran began punishing him, but it left Reke kind of out of the loop. We have been seeing mroe of him at PG in recent games, a few minutes here, a few there, but tonight his lack of assists wasn't because fo the normal I kick you brik it phenomenon, but because his passing seemed a little wild and high risk, barely getting through, and rarely cleanly. When he tried to drive he found terrible spacing, and various Kings bigs often standing directly in the driving lane for no reason at all. I've got a wacky idea, how about we actually have the bigs come out high when we want to drive, and the guards move out to the three point line when the bigs want to go inside. I know, another wacky plan. A missing factor tonight was the defense. He gave us spurts, helping to get Teague under control after he was lighting up IT like a pinball machine. In the trird for a stretch actually getting active smothering Korver. But in general started off the game leaving Korver open at the three point line repeatedly while he went down inside trying to help on the glass. And hey, we needed the help, not that Reke ever got any. But we also needed not to leave one of the league's best shooters wide open to bomb threes. In fact seemed kind of disinterested in sticking in Korver's chest, and constantly wanted to wander off to help others, go for rebounds, etc. Like it was too easy or too limiting just to stand around out at the three point line with an off the ball guy. Reke didn't lose this for us, and the shooting is looking better, but he also made very little positive impact and walked off the court shaking his head while boos rained down on the court from the 17 remaining members of the audience.

Stats: 19min 3pts (1-6, 1-4, 0-0) 1reb 5ast 1stl 0blk 0TO
Thomas ( D- ) -- every once in a while you see just a flash or two of last year's IT. In this game it came early, when he started the game off creating a couple of nice looks, and splashing in a catch and shoot three. But I think as much as anything he got jolted out of his comfort zone in this one when Jeff Teague just started destroying him the other way, possession after possession. Made him look physically helpless to stop it and was scoring and scoring and scoring until finally we had no choice but to pull IT. IT's response before getting yanked was to lose that early compsure and start chucking up off balance shots. Came back to start the third, but was largely ineffective. Could not hit his threes to provide spacing, but at least Teague had cooled down. At least notched some assists this time, but another obvious candidate to be shifted to the bench to refind himself.

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Bench

Stats: 30min 17pts (7-13, 2-5, 1-2) 3reb 0ast 2stl 0blk 4TO
Thornton ( B- ) -- mostly held his own during the mess, although notably during our strongest quarter (the 2bd) took a backseat while Brooks was the impact guy. Tried to make some passes, including a nice pass to Cousins for what should have been an open dunk at the end of the first, before Cousins embarrassingly got blocked by the rim. Hit a three from Salmons early in the 2nd, which was a relief given how few of those he has been hitting. Missed several more nicely set up bombs however. Again got several buckets off backcuts, this time with Cuz working mostly as the passer. And thos backcut scores need a little tack put in them, because they are one fo those few consistent thigns in our offense. Got another good o-reb and follow, and over the course of the game managed to hit several really bad shots jsut going 1 on 1, with apparent disregard for time, situation, rebounders underneath etc. In a lot of ways thatwas the way this felt -- like rather than rising above our chaos, Marcus just happened to be better equipped for it as a conscienceless 1 on 1 gunner, and so had successes that you wouldn't want to try to repeat. Like Reke seemed to have trouble with the idea that you need to stick to Korver like glue, and was scored over repeatedly on that end. This deserves something for a grade because he fought back in fits and spurts, but it wasn't an impact game.

Stats: 26min 9pts (4-6, 1-2, 0-0) 2reb 4ast 2stl 0blk 1TO
Salmons ( B ) -- started off the game in fugly fashion, coming in and immediately getting the ball slapped out of his hands and starting a Hawks break to begin the 2nd quarter and increase our misery. But settled down and really for the most part looked pretty good out there. Was aiding our unuusal assist night, playing efficiently on offense. Hit the tying corner three from Cousins just before half to cap our one big surge, although Teague then raced back the other way for a tough finsh over Cousins to give the Hawks he lead back. Had several more effiicient little shots in the 3rd, although losing his compsure along with everyone else and rushing a forced three in the mid 4th may have led to his replacment for the stretch run. Was rewarded for his solid play by being the vicitm fo another one of Smart's ridiculous lineups, with Salmons at PF next to TRob at C to begin the 4th. Amazingly that did not turn thigs for us. Potentially somebody Smart could be looking to to join the starting linuep in place of Johnson, sad as it may seem to be turning to the same guy to save us that we were trying to replace for his awfulness just 6 months ago.

Stats: 16min 4pts (2-3, 0-0, 0-0) 2reb 2ast 1stl 0blk 0TO
Robinson ( C- ) -- not awful, but largely ineffective, and the size issues were repatedly evident as Zaza and Horford both bounced him out of the way with little trouble inside. Got a couple of scores on the move, but overpowered on the boards, and totally ineffective defending the middle in a ridiculous Smart linuep to beign the 4th with TRob at center. Added to our improved passing focus with a couple of nice little passes for assists.

Stats: 22min 13pts (5-7, 3-4, 0-0) 1reb 4ast 0stl 0blk 1TO
Brooks ( B ) -- the PG position just refuses to unmuddle, as this time it was Brooks' turn to have himself a big quarter. Note the word quarter there. Largely singlehandedly brought us back from the dead in the second, getting hot in just about every way, knockign down threes off kicks and his own dribble, finally using his quickess to create several real nice highlight reel worthy looks, and working pretty well with Hayes in a two man game flashback from his Houston days. But it was all in the second quarter, and after returning in the thrid was pretty much completely ineffective once again, and even picked up a technical for his troubles. Did not help that Smart in all his wisdom never went back to Chuck after halftime,a dn so Brooks was left with a power player combination of Salmons and TRob to try to work pick and rolls with. Woohoo. Could go "+" here as he was the one King wiht the biggest and omost obvious period of impact play. But he did nothing after half, and so the grade sank and sank, and JT was definitely stronger over the course of the night and deserves that "+" to himself.

Stats: 7min 4pts (2-2, 0-0, 0-0) 2reb 1ast 0stl 0blk 1TO
Hayes ( INC ) -- looked decent enough to me in the 2nd quarter, you know the one quarter that we actually won. Was playing well with Brooks, both setting him up and being set up by him as they renewed thier Houston connection. certianly not making any great impact on defense or the glass, but it was an ok first half. And then mysteriously Chuck Hayes, one of the few guys who has NOT been the problem early in the season, ended up benched for the second half while we decided to try out John Salmons' skills at PF. Go figure.

Stats: 7min 2pts (0-3, 0-2, 2-2) 0reb 0ast 0stl 0blk 0TO
Fredette ( INC ) -- so...as our minutes mess continues Jimmer went from deserving more time, to having a good burst two games ago, to playing pretty well with some defensive issues last game, to almsot not getting in the game in this one. Finally in at the end of the third for the final possession. And then played about half off the 4th. Maybe its better for him he didn't get enough minutes to grade, because he didn't look good. Forced his shots and missed them. Did not create for anybody else. Missed a three in the late desperation time. Just back to not accomplishing anything.
 
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James Johnson, I had hoped he would be a solid all around player this year

As for the poll.. Smart is a third tier coach, but I don't think Phil Jackson could coach this team to winning basketball... Cousins and Tyreke (as their careers stand now) are not the two best players on a solid NBA team
 
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Players can play better, but they have no control over the lineups and sub patterns. It won't even matter much if Smart changes the starting lineup as he'll just mismanage the new lineup and whoever is sent to the bench.

Say he starts Brooks/MT/Reke, just as an example and they play well. Well, then he's going to pull them and run an IT/Jimmer/Salmons lineup for the entire 2nd quarter. What if they get hot? He's shown what he does then. He'll ride them until the 10min mark of the 2nd, then bench them until 1-2min mark of the 2nd, if they return at all.

Changing the lineup does nothing until Smart tightens his f'ing rotation and starts riding his horses.
 
Wow. Was at the game tonight. And it was the worst atmosphere ive ever experienced at a kings game. And ive been at a lot of bad games over the last couple years
 
Really starting to look like Reke is giving up here. You just don't see any fire from him and I can't blame him, they're asking a hammer to do the job of a hacksaw. Either find a use for the hammer or get yourself a hacksaw. Preferably before the trade-in value is diminished too much.
 
Not much you can do when you have a team full of people looking for their own shot and the coach telling them all that they have a green light to shoot whenever they get the ball.

Also theteam is WAY unbalanced. Poor GM, Poor Coaching... Fire Petrie when you fire Smart.
 
Really starting to look like Reke is giving up here. You just don't see any fire from him and I can't blame him, they're asking a hammer to do the job of a hacksaw. Either find a use for the hammer or get yourself a hacksaw. Preferably before the trade-in value is diminished too much.

Reke is a quiet guy, but you can just tell by his body language and how he was shaking his head at the end of the game that he wants to be traded. Like Cousins, he's not used to losing a lot, especially for the past 3 years. Even his bros know that the coach ain't using him right and blames him for icing Reke in spurts when he gets hot. Everyone knows the rotations are bad.
 
JT = Mr. one consistent this year and last

Also about the only player who has had a consistent role, both rotation-wise and role on the court. He's out there to rebound, hit open shots and have the occasional post up 1 on 1. Everyone else has been jerked around, Tyreke being moved in 3 different positions, sometimes all within the same game, IT then being asked to play more off the ball. Thornton now moved to the bench (but he's been pretty consistent too in what he's giving us, which is scoring. Again, consistent role, not being asked to create for others one day and then asked to chuck 3 pointers the next).
 
We're getting poor performances from the players, a coach who doesn't under the word "rotation" and a roster that doesn't have consistent shooting. It's not hard to see why we suck
 
What's mind-boggling about Smart is I don't think anyone would disagree that he's done a good job of managing the bigs minutes. JT-Hayes-Robinson are all pretty close to what you want minute wise from them and Cousins MPG are low because of his foul problems. Consistently though, you see Cousins and JT both come back in at the right time .
 
What's mind-boggling about Smart is I don't think anyone would disagree that he's done a good job of managing the bigs minutes. JT-Hayes-Robinson are all pretty close to what you want minute wise from them and Cousins MPG are low because of his foul problems. Consistently though, you see Cousins and JT both come back in at the right time .

It's because he doesn't have anyone else to play at those positions.
 
Thank you Brick for watching the games so that we don't have to. I used to always watch Cousins' highlights (but I haven't even done that yet this season). I say let Reke go back to being Reke. He was pretty fearless as a rookie. I know things are bad when JT leads the team in scoring.
 
Well I think we are at the point where we get to see what happens when a rebuild fails miserably. Back to the drawing board.
 
Well I think we are at the point where we get to see what happens when a rebuild fails miserably. Back to the drawing board.

There is no drawing board. The Maloofs traded it for those spiffy new tiles in the concourse.
 
I am at the point where I hope our best players get traded just to save their careers and get out of this mess. With this owners, this coach and this organization we will never be competitive, we'll always be' a joke. I don't blame the players if they are giving up, I'd do the same if I was in their position.
 
speaking of Drawing Boards, ive come to the conclusion that this has got to be what Keith Smarts gameplans look like

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Yeah the rotations aren't helping but there is no way Smart is responsable for the lax effort on D tonight, that was just inexcusable for me. Players jogging around sulking, I don't care if you're going to lose you don't just give up baskets, that was down right shameful at the end, letting them walk in and help themselves like it was a run meet.

Even if you think it's the wrong group on the floor EVERY single player should be busting their *** on defence and that simply didn't happen. You could find a roundabout way to blame the coach and I'm sure most on this board will, but i won't. Players need to step up their effort, even with the questionable rotations that we saw out there.
 
Maloofs will be extremely patient with the coach, who just got extended so be ready to endure this for a while. Too bad players cannot vote owners out.
 
Not even Adelman could teach these guys how to play right, or make a bunch of ill-fitting pieces mesh. Fixing the coaching may be necessary, but it's far from sufficient to fix this mess.
 
Has anyone else noticed how lazy DMC has gotten. The guy literally walks up and down the court on just about every possesion pouting and being a baby. Good example. The whole roster is garbage IMO. There is not one player I'd be willing to keep.
 
Has anyone else noticed how lazy DMC has gotten. The guy literally walks up and down the court on just about every possesion pouting and being a baby. Good example. The whole roster is garbage IMO. There is not one player I'd be willing to keep.

I didn't like his effort at all last night, you could use the excuse.. "oh he's had 2 off he's gonna be rusty" but it went beyond "rust" It was flagrant disregard for the game and taking plays off down the stretch, I'm not bothered if we're down 40, i don't want to see people leaving their man on purpose so they can lay it in.
 
I think the remaining players and our team and our coach would have been better served if the team had done what I asked and traded away both Thornton and Fredette before the season started. We would miss two very good scores and two ill equipped defenders. Seeing the points pour is fun but seeing a tight defense in action is my preference. Our record might be the same but I believed the team would be playing better ball and we would be farther along towards solving our problem. One could say hogwash to all this....... But still..........
 
I hate to say this but if the right deal came around I would trade everyone on this team. EVERYONE including Cousins. We need more position players. We don't really have that and it's screwing up the lineups.
 
I hate to say this but if the right deal came around I would trade everyone on this team. EVERYONE including Cousins. We need more position players. We don't really have that and it's screwing up the lineups.


Can't panic and do that. Well...yes you can panic. And we maybe should. :) But if we make rash decisions in our panic then not only is the rebuild over and we have to start form scratch, but the losing will stretch to 10 straight years with a good chance of the corner not being turned until they are playing in fornt of fans in another city, ala the Seattle/OKC scenario.

Do agree though that we have hit kind of a perfect storm here of clueless GM with dumb philosophy of just picking up "good basketball players" with no regards to fit or role, and a coach unwilling to make tough calls and instill that discipline himself. In fact really as a Nellie disicple who picks and chooses his Pop lessons, maybe a guy who loves the mess too. Jerry Reynolds is dead wrong, as he often is. Its not about putting together "good" basketball players. Its about putting together basketball players who fit and understand their roles. Thabo Seflalosha can't create, Kendrick Perkins can't do much of anything but defend, the best thing you can say about Nick Collison is that he works hard, yet these are major rotation components of the Western Conference champs. Why? They work hard, stay out of the way, know their limitations, accept their roles. And because of it the whole team works better. Geoff has never gotten that. Never seemed to understand roleplayers. And its increasingly evident Smart is clueless on that front as well.
 
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I don't see how cleaning house of the players solves our problems. That's faulty logic to me. What would make anyone think whoever we bring in would be managed well or used correctly? Two biggest issues for me pertaining to that line of thinking are:

1) Just about every single one of our players has poor value right now. We're not getting what we should in return. We've killed the value of just about every player on our roster. Selling low won't solve many issues. This is one of the biggest problems with Smart and how he manages games. No one is getting into a rhythm and keeping that rhythm. No one looks confident. What happens because of that? Everyones numbers are down. No one is playing up to their potential. The only player who might fetch something close to his value now is JT. how exactly will that get us something in return which will help our roster?

2) Smart doesn't use Cuz/Reke/MT/IT/Jimmer/JJ/Chuck/Trob correctly. So say for arguments sake(I wouldn't do this) we trade Cuz for Horford and Reke for Jared Dudley(I know salaries don't match), where is any evidence those players would be used correctly? If as an organization you completely mismanage the assets you have, simply swapping assets doesn't fix the problem.

I also question what exactly we could get for our players. An example would be MT.Was there interest in him this summer? Did Petrie turn down deals? MT played well last year, better than this year, yet did we have any opportunities to move him for a SF? It's possible Petrie decided this roster fits well and didn't seek moves this past summer, but the other side might be that he did try to move pieces to help the roster and a 2nd for JJ was the best he could get. With such a poorly constructed roster, if our guys had value you'd think a trade wouldn't have been too hard to come by this summer to improve our roster.

Of course there was the rumored option for Lowry, but I think people overrate how easy it is to simply move our pieces for pieces which will help us.

But even if we did trade for Lowry, we'd probably see Smart play him at SG and SF in Brooks/MT/Lowry or IT/Lowry lineups. It all goes back to even if we do trade players it won't matter a whole lot if we're not managing any of our players correctly.
 
Can't panic and do that. Well...yes you can panic. And we maybe should. :) But if we make rash decisions in our panic then not only is the rebuild over and we have to start form scratch, but the losing will stretch to 10 straight years with a good chance of the corner not being turned until they are playing in fornt of fans in another city, ala the Seattle/OKC scenario.

Do agree though that we have hit kind of a perfect storm here of clueless GM with dumb philosophy of just picking up "good basketball players" with no regards to fit or role, and a coach unwilling to make tough calls and instill that discipline himself. In fact really as a Nellie disicple who picks and chooses his Pop lessons, maybe a guy who loves the mess too. Jerry Reynolds is dead wrong, as he often is. Its not about putting together "good" basketball players. Its about putting together basketball players who fit and understand their roles. Thabo Seflalosha can't create, Kendrick Perkins can't do much of anything but defend, the best thing you can say about Nick Collison is that he works hard, yet these are major rotation components of the Western Conference champs. Why? They work hard, stay out of the way, know their limitations, accept their roles. And because of it the whole team works better. Geoff has never gotten that. Never seemed to understand roleplayers. And its increasingly evident Smart is clueless on that front as well.

What confuses me the most is I once thought Petrie understood those things. He signed relative unknowns Pollard and Bobby J to long term deals, traded for Christie, and always had at least one tough vet at the end of the bench.
 
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