[Grades] Grades v. Clippers 2/26/2016

[Bballkingsrock]

Well if I can see them the Refs can see them Jordan and Mbah a Moute were stepping into screens and grabbing hold of defenders most of the game. There are already rules against a moving screen and holding the refs just need to blow the whistle.

Still illegal screen or not Redick and CP3 hit those shots time after time

Did anyone else see Rondo visiting with Doc Rivers after the game? Boogie came over and it appeared Doc gave Boogie a little push, like "get outta here"??? Did this happen or am I taking the exchange out of context from the limited video?

I didnt say the refs dont see them. I said that they dont call them. Many NBA teams get away with these illegal screens. Its not just the Clippers. Refs need to discuss issue over the summer and get it resolved.

 

[kingsboi]

Chris Paul IS a little *****, dirty, etc.

As far as I'm concerned, Chris Paul can have his W against the lowly Kings and proceed to be ousted in the early round of the playoffs, again. He can't seem to get to the big dance no matter the team around him.

 

[KingMilz]

As far as I'm concerned, Chris Paul can have his W against the lowly Kings and proceed to be ousted in the early round of the playoffs, again. He can't seem to get to the big dance no matter the team around him.

At least he can get there and actually carry a team to the playoffs (50+ wins) regardless of who is injured for them on a regular basis. I wish we had someone like that.

 

[kingsboi]

At least he can get there and actually carry a team to the playoffs (50+ wins) regardless of who is injured for them on a regular basis. I wish we had someone like that.

He is one of those players you absolutely hate playing against unless he is on your team. I don't hate Paul by any means, he is annoying as hell with the flopping but he is a smart ball player, he knows how to get under opponents skin. Reminds me of a KG version of a guard. After a while though, you expect more than just 50 wins and a second round out, the West is having a down year this year, whether that continues next season is yet to be determined. Too bad for them though the Warriors and Spurs are in a class all by themselves.

 

[ppine]

As far as the rules go, they aren't enforced. Travelling is really common, but so is carrying the ball. The later was a point of emphasis for awhile but quickly went back to not calling it. I agree that people set picks in the NBA while moving their feet, spreading their feet wide and throwing hips. It seems that it is getting worse and a few bad picks get called now. Some players enjoy the contact and get to the other players that really don't. Paul is one of them even though he is not that big.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

At least he can get there and actually carry a team to the playoffs (50+ wins) regardless of who is injured for them on a regular basis. I wish we had someone like that.

Ah yes. Look at Chris Paul "carry" a team with Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, Jamal Crawford and JJ Redick to the playoffs. He must have a hernia. You know, from all the "carrying" he has to do.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Ah yes. Look at Chris Paul "carry" a team with Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, Jamal Crawford and JJ Redick to the playoffs. He must have a hernia. You know, from all the "carrying" he has to do.

Uh the Clippers went on a run without Griffin and it's debatable if a team of Jordan, Reddick and Paul is really that far ahead of the Kings core. But they find a way to win games.
I think they play beautiful simple outside inside basketball, which is pretty difficult to stop.
They beat us with two basic plays and we never found an answer.
And I would expect them to beat us 7 out of 10 times, when it's basically open jumpshots for Paul and Reddick vs contested layups and post ups for Cuz and Gay.
What are we supposed to do? If Cousins comes out high in the pick&roll Paul will try to draw the foul and our star sits on the bench within minutes.
On that play you have to pick your poison and allowing jumpshot after jumpshot will not get you the win.
I hate this - all season long we struggle against this and we simply find no answer than to give up the long 2 or 3 and hope they miss.

 

[randymoss1881]

Uh the Clippers went on a run without Griffin and it's debatable if a team of Jordan, Reddick and Paul is really that far ahead of the Kings core. But they find a way to win games.
I think they play beautiful simple outside inside basketball, which is pretty difficult to stop.
They beat us with two basic plays and we never found an answer.
And I would expect them to beat us 7 out of 10 times, when it's basically open jumpshots for Paul and Reddick vs contested layups and post ups for Cuz and Gay.
What are we supposed to do? If Cousins comes out high in the pick&roll Paul will try to draw the foul and our star sits on the bench within minutes.
On that play you have to pick your poison and allowing jumpshot after jumpshot will not get you the win.
I hate this - all season long we struggle against this and we simply find no answer than to give up the long 2 or 3 and hope they miss.

Clippers also went on a run without paul and DC starting.

 

[mac]

Ah yes. Look at Chris Paul "carry" a team with Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, Jamal Crawford and JJ Redick to the playoffs. He must have a hernia. You know, from all the "carrying" he has to do.

Redick is one of my fav players but he was hardly considered a key player prior to being on a team with Paul. Paul was already a very good player in NO. Put him on the Kings instead of Rondo and we'd be a playoff team, easy.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Uh the Clippers went on a run without Griffin and it's debatable if a team of Jordan, Reddick and Paul is really that far ahead of the Kings core...

It is? And what happened to Crawford?

And how come the people who are quick to tell you how the Clippers are winning with Chris Paul and without Blake Griffin always seem to gloss over the fact that the Clippers were also winning the last time they had Blake Griffin, and no Chris Paul? At some point, people might have to accept that, unlike us, the Clippers actually have legit NBA players as their supporting cast.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Redick is one of my fav players but he was hardly considered a key player prior to being on a team with Paul. Paul was already a very good player in NO. Put him on the Kings instead of Rondo and we'd be a playoff team, easy.

You can be a roleplayer, and still be a "key" player. Redick is a career 45 percent shooter, career 11 ppg scorer, has made the playoffs every season of his career, on three different teams. If you want to put that all on Chris Paul, that's your prerogative, but I think that there's enough evidence that Paul didn't make JJ Redick.

 

[pshn80]

Chris Paul IS a little *****, dirty, etc.

Yes but awfully good.

 

[hrdboild]

At some point, people might have to accept that, unlike us, the Clippers actually have legit NBA players as their supporting cast.

At this point I don't see how anyone can say that we don't have legit NBA players in our supporting cast. Gay, Rondo, Collison, Koufos, and Belinelli have all been important parts of winning teams elsewhere. I realize the context was a discussion about Chris Paul not the Kings but the overarching discussion going on is how talent leads to wins.

I think we played the Clippers better in games 1 and 3 (when they did have Griffin) than we did in this game. Maybe it's just my unreliable memory, but I recall thinking then that either team could win while this game felt like another one of those games where a better team let us hang around until it was time for them to step on the gas and then pull away with ease. It feels like we're regressing as the season goes on. Somehow we're less than the sum of our individual parts.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

At this point I don't see how anyone can say that we don't have legit NBA players in our supporting cast. Gay, Rondo, Collison, Koufos, and Belinelli have all been important parts of winning teams elsewhere. I realize the context was a discussion about Chris Paul not the Kings but the overarching discussion going on is how talent leads to wins.

I think we played the Clippers better in games 1 and 3 (when they did have Griffin) than we did in this game. Maybe it's just my unreliable memory, but I recall thinking then that either team could win while this game felt like another one of those games where a better team let us hang around until it was time for them to step on the gas and then pull away with ease. It feels like we're regressing as the season goes on. Somehow we're less than the sum of our individual parts.

So, do you think that Chris Paul could "carry" Rudy Gay, Darren Collison, Kosta Koufos and Marco Belinelli to the playoffs? Also, in Game 3 of our regular season series against the Clippers (the one we won, BTW), the Clippers did not have Griffin. Or Jordan.

 

[Section 101]

At this point I don't see how anyone can say that we don't have legit NBA players in our supporting cast. Gay, Rondo, Collison, Koufos, and Belinelli have all been important parts of winning teams elsewhere. I realize the context was a discussion about Chris Paul not the Kings but the overarching discussion going on is how talent leads to wins.

I think we played the Clippers better in games 1 and 3 (when they did have Griffin) than we did in this game. Maybe it's just my unreliable memory, but I recall thinking then that either team could win while this game felt like another one of those games where a better team let us hang around until it was time for them to step on the gas and then pull away with ease. It feels like we're regressing as the season goes on. Somehow we're less than the sum of our individual parts.

Like the stock market, past performance doesn't guarantee future success.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Somehow we're less than the sum of our individual parts.

Been saying this for a while now. I think it comes down to some combination of 1) coaching, 2) fit, and 3) leadership (or lack thereof). No easy answer or simple solution, I'm afraid.

 

[Amit149]

At this point I don't see how anyone can say that we don't have legit NBA players in our supporting cast. Gay, Rondo, Collison, Koufos, and Belinelli have all been important parts of winning teams elsewhere. I realize the context was a discussion about Chris Paul not the Kings but the overarching discussion going on is how talent leads to wins.

I think we played the Clippers better in games 1 and 3 (when they did have Griffin) than we did in this game. Maybe it's just my unreliable memory, but I recall thinking then that either team could win while this game felt like another one of those games where a better team let us hang around until it was time for them to step on the gas and then pull away with ease. It feels like we're regressing as the season goes on. Somehow we're less than the sum of our individual parts.

Let's be real- Gay is far from being associated with winning on his former teams,
Rondo is not the same guy anymore and since his injury he hasn't contribute to winning,
DC is a nice PG but with Rondo on the team he plays a small role or abused against SG's,
KK is a good backup center sitting behind our best player and our prized rookie and have trouble sharing the floor with both of then,
And Marco is a decent SG with shooting and no defense, that right now can't hit a shot and outside 1 great year 2 years ago never went close to Redick's level.

The Clippers aren't great either but CP3 has a better roster around him than Cousins even without Blake, if only for DJ that some will claim is better than Cousins in the modern NBA (I disagree but it goes to show his talent level).
And CP3 is a better player than Cousins right now (if that was the argument).

 

[Sac.1989]

Uh the Clippers went on a run without Griffin and it's debatable if a team of Jordan, Reddick and Paul is really that far ahead of the Kings core. But they find a way to win games.
I think they play beautiful simple outside inside basketball, which is pretty difficult to stop.
They beat us with two basic plays and we never found an answer.
And I would expect them to beat us 7 out of 10 times, when it's basically open jumpshots for Paul and Reddick vs contested layups and post ups for Cuz and Gay.
What are we supposed to do? If Cousins comes out high in the pick&roll Paul will try to draw the foul and our star sits on the bench within minutes.
On that play you have to pick your poison and allowing jumpshot after jumpshot will not get you the win.
I hate this - all season long we struggle against this and we simply find no answer than to give up the long 2 or 3 and hope they miss.

Give us doc rivers and we're a lock for the post season.

 

[White_Chocolate]

I was at the game Friday, but I needed a few days to think about how to put together my feelings about our fans, the game itself and the state of our beloved Kings as a whole.

Let's start with what I love about the Sacramento Kings. The fans. We are a unique group. We are a stubborn group of individuals who are willing to bear with a team and administration who simply refuse to improve because we love what it means to be a fan of this franchise. We may be a little more jaded than we used to be, but after over a decade of failure who can blame us. Nonetheless we won't budge from our stance as determined fans who honestly believe that one day this thing will turn around. I honestly believe it will if we manage to hold on to our big fellas and get a damn good coach and GM who can reinvigorate this franchise.

The game itself was more or less what I expected. We competed for stretches, but simply are not consistent enough nor talented enough on the defensive end to compete with a team like the Clippers. It also solidly affirmed my belief that Karl is burned out. His rotations are lunacy, his belief in veterans is painful to a fault, and his stubbornness are all difficult to bear witness to as a fan. Individually the only three who came to play were Curry, WCS, and Cousins. As a fan who still believes McLemore can make something of himself I really want Karl to be fired so we can stop playing Marco or two PG lineups and just take a good look at McLemore playing 35-40 minutes a a game. At worst we see he is not cut out for the league, but at best he can be regarded as a potential asset to this team on the court or as a trade piece. McLemore ramble aside, the game was a nice walk down memory lane. Arco will always have a special place in my heart.

The state of the Kings is an odd one. I along with most of you were quite optimistic to begin the year. I really believed we had it in us to be a playoff team. Adding Rondo, WCS, Koufus, Marco, Acy and Casspi to play with the likes of Boogie and Gay seemed like a team that could really surprise people. I still believe that talent is not the issue. The talent may not fit together correctly, but it is there. However, the morale, the chemistry and the mental attitude that comes with being a winner is not there. Most of that should be blamed on Karl and Vivek. A few specific players have been huge flops as well ( I am looking at you Marco). So with all that in mind. Where do we go? I am not in favor of blowing it up in regards to hitting reset with our players. However, I don't want to be stuck in a position of mediocrity. If we chase the 8th seed and get near we will be just that - mediocre. This team with this coach is simply not good enough. Thus it puts the Kings in the position of needing to basically punt the rest of the year while keeping team chemistry and spirits at a manageable level. I don't want to be the 10th best team in the West without the hope of being involved in the NBA draft. If we are better than bottom 10 our pick moves to Chicago and that would be a big blow to our chances of allowing a new coach/GM to reload (not rebuild). I only am truly concerned about making Cousins and WCS happy. I say keep those two, hope to get a nice player in the draft and put a logical team around them. Possibly even more importantly we need a coach and a GM who are on the same page and can get the best out of Cousins.

Go Kings and stay strong my fellow stubborn Kings fans!

 

[hrdboild]

So, do you think that Chris Paul could "carry" Rudy Gay, Darren Collison, Kosta Koufos and Marco Belinelli to the playoffs? Also, in Game 3 of our regular season series against the Clippers (the one we won, BTW), the Clippers did not have Griffin. Or Jordan.

Sorry I wasn't clearer -- I meant games 1 and 3 of the season, not games 1 and 3 of our in-season series against the Clippers. All I remember about our third game against the Clippers is that they were missing DeAndre Jordan and Blake Griffin and we barely beat them playing at full strength. Which I suppose tells you where we're at talent-wise. Jamal Crawford has always killed us but we also managed to make Cole Aldrich look like an All-Star in that game.

I'm not really getting involved with the "Chris Paul makes his teammates better" argument. I think the main advantage to having him on your team is that he's a good enough scorer to lead a team himself but he prefers to pass the ball so you're getting a lot from that one position on the floor. DeMarcus is a dominant scorer but he's never had a season where he averaged more assists than turnovers. Rondo is a great playmaker but he's not going to carry a team as a leading scorer. I don't think that really matters if you get the right players around them, but what we've seen this year is that we still lose even when the Rondo/Cousins machine is humming along at full speed. The question is why.

Personally, I think Rondo/Cousins as a star duo ultimately has a higher ceiling than Paul/Griffin but everywhere else is a problem area. It took DeAndre Jordan 6 seasons to develop into a nightly double-double guy and JJ Reddick 4 seasons to become a reliable source of points. We have Cauley-Stein who's in his first year and playing limited minutes and Ben who hasn't figured things out yet in his third year. Rudy Gay has always been a scoring threat and he took a big step forward as a playmaker last year before falling way back this year. As a sixth man Collison has been as good for us as Jamal Crawford has been for them this year (except when he gets switched onto bigs defensively) but he does have a frustrating penchant for blowing end of quarter/end game plays. In the big picture though, the problems for us are all on the defensive end and I don't see how we cut our points allowed from 109 per game to 100 per game without a coaching change.

 

[KingsFanGER]

It is? And what happened to Crawford?

And how come the people who are quick to tell you how the Clippers are winning with Chris Paul and without Blake Griffin always seem to gloss over the fact that the Clippers were also winning the last time they had Blake Griffin, and no Chris Paul? At some point, people might have to accept that, unlike us, the Clippers actually have legit NBA players as their supporting cast.

You really want to take Jamal Crawford as an example?
What differs the Clippers from the Kings is the ability to play pick&roll and defend.
Some certainly has to do with coaching. Some has to do with the skillset of the players and the general make up of the team.
We are a team built around a great offensive center in a perimeter league. And with this there come certain weak spots.
We can't allow Cousins to get into foul trouble, because we need him on offense. And big man are in a lot more danger to pick up fouls than guards. As a result our pick&roll defense with Cousins involved is a weakness every opposing team tries to exploit. Not because Cousins is a bad defender per se, but because he spends a lot of energy on offense and can't pick up fouls. And therefore good pick&roll teams just pick us apart and are a lot more effcient than we are, when our running game doesn't work and we are forced into the halfcourt.
I mean the whole gameplan of the Clippers was to put Cousins into as many pick&rolls as possible, with a bit of Redick running around baseline screens to mix it up and the usual Jamal Crawford “I will take every stupid shot possible“ thing, that was a success yesterday.
Teams like the Blazers, Golden State or Charlotte do the same thing.
Their strength is our weakness and we won't win as long as we don't find a way to handle that on defense.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Uh the Clippers went on a run without Griffin and it's debatable if a team of Jordan, Reddick and Paul is really that far ahead of the Kings core...

It is? And what happened to Crawford?

You really want to take Jamal Crawford as an example?

Do I want to take Jamal Crawford as an example of guys that's better then the guys we've got? The same Jamal Crawford who had a career scoring average of 15.3ppg before he got to Los Angeles? The same Jamal Crawford who had already won a 6MOY award on a playoff team, before he got to Los Angeles, and has since won another one? The same Jamal Crawford who is one of three guys in NBA history to have scored 50 points in a game, for three different teams? That Jamal Crawford?

Yeah, now that you mention it, I think I do want to use Jamal Crawford as an example.

 

[KingMilz]

So, do you think that Chris Paul could "carry" Rudy Gay, Darren Collison, Kosta Koufos and Marco Belinelli to the playoffs? Also, in Game 3 of our regular season series against the Clippers (the one we won, BTW), the Clippers did not have Griffin. Or Jordan.

I think he could get us to 500. (in this years conference) at least he would also make most the players on the squad like WCS way better. Cp3 makes his teams/teammates way better his skill and IQ aside from Curry at the PG position are unmatched. Replace Cousins/Rondo with Paul and big man of Rondo's quality and I think we easily are a 6th seed.

Off course this is all theory and zero way to prove any of this.

 

[Boogie_Fever]

I think he could get us to 500. (in this years conference) at least he would also make most the players on the squad like WCS way better. Cp3 makes his teams/teammates way better his skill and IQ aside from Curry at the PG position are unmatched. Replace Cousins/Rondo with Paul and big man of Rondo's quality and I think we easily are a 6th seed.

Off course this is all theory and zero way to prove any of this.

Replace Rondo with Paul and this team is pushing for at least the sixth seed.

 

[Bricklayer]

I think he could get us to 500. (in this years conference) at least he would also make most the players on the squad like WCS way better. Cp3 makes his teams/teammates way better his skill and IQ aside from Curry at the PG position are unmatched. Replace Cousins/Rondo with Paul and big man of Rondo's quality and I think we easily are a 6th seed.

Off course this is all theory and zero way to prove any of this.

Unless you think CP3, who is a good defender but hardly a carry you type (as can be seen by the Clips own defense) is somehow going to improve the defense of a suddenly Cousinsless defensive squad, its rather all pointless.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Do I want to take Jamal Crawford as an example of guys that's better then the guys we've got? The same Jamal Crawford who had a career scoring average of 15.3ppg before he got to Los Angeles? The same Jamal Crawford who had already won a 6MOY award on a playoff team, before he got to Los Angeles, and has since won another one? The same Jamal Crawford who is one of three guys in NBA history to have scored 50 points in a game, for three different teams? That Jamal Crawford?

Yeah, now that you mention it, I think I do want to use Jamal Crawford as an example.

Well Jamal Crawford shoots 39% fm the field and 31% from 3 this season. He is one of the most profilic shot makers of the last decade, but like Lou Wiliams or other iso ballers his game doesn't fit anymore. He is inefficient, stops the ball and any offensive flow and takes a ton of moronic forced shots. That's the Jamal Crawford we are talking about.
Meanwhile system guys like Redick, who don't have nearly the talent of Jamal, are dangerous players, because they know how to use screens and only take high percentage looks.
But actually I'm not that interested in the “which team has more talent“ debate.
All I wanted to say is, that the Clippers have talent that fits and allows a certain playstyle, that follows a trend in todays NBA. And this trend is there for a reason. We on the other hand are trying to find our own way of fitting into the league, with a lot of guys, who are not what most NBA teams are looking for at their positions.
And no matter how often this board says “but Karl“ in my mind it's not that simple. Yes you can work against a trend, you can try to set a new trend. But you have to find a way to defend the most common playstyle first, before you have even the slightest chance to be succcessful playing your own style.
So far that's the problem with the Kings and it's up to smarter basketball minds than me to decide if it's even possible to defend the most common playstyle with our current personell, or of we have to change our approach.

 

[dude12]

Well Jamal Crawford shoots 39% fm the field and 31% from 3 this season. He is one of the most profilic shot makers of the last decade, but like Lou Wiliams or other iso ballers his game doesn't fit anymore. He is inefficient, stops the ball and any offensive flow and takes a ton of moronic forced shots. That's the Jamal Crawford we are talking about.
Meanwhile system guys like Redick, who don't have nearly the talent of Jamal, are dangerous players, because they know how to use screens and only take high percentage looks.
But actually I'm not that interested in the “which team has more talent“ debate.
All I wanted to say is, that the Clippers have talent that fits and allows a certain playstyle, that follows a trend in todays NBA. And this trend is there for a reason. We on the other hand are trying to find our own way of fitting into the league, with a lot of guys, who are not what most NBA teams are looking for at their positions.
And no matter how often this board says “but Karl“ in my mind it's not that simple. Yes you can work against a trend, you can try to set a new trend. But you have to find a way to defend the most common playstyle first, before you have even the slightest chance to be succcessful playing your own style.
So far that's the problem with the Kings and it's up to smarter basketball minds than me to decide if it's even possible to defend the most common playstyle with our current personell, or of we have to change our approach.

No matter what play style a team chooses to play, to be successful, a team has to play defense. And this is the reason many posts start in on Karl as he seems to have no clue on that end....nor does he give that end of the floor the respect it deserves. It's acknowledged that our backcourt personnel's defense leaves much to be desired but Karl doesn't play the guys who do have a defensive pulse anyway.

I can see the parts to the beginnings of a decent defensive team being put together by Vlade. Interior defenders in our bigs but we need better defensive wings. If Vlade can acquire/draft the equivalent of WCS at the SG position, we would improve quite a bit.

Defense always wins....I'd like for that to be our calling card. Hire a defensive coach and go that route. We don't have a Steph Curry, we don't have a Lillard, we don't have a Westbrook.....got to go in a different direction than those teams.

 

[KingsFanGER]

No matter what play style a team chooses to play, to be successful, a team has to play defense. And this is the reason many posts start in on Karl as he seems to have no clue on that end....nor does he give that end of the floor the respect it deserves. It's acknowledged that our backcourt personnel's defense leaves much to be desired but Karl doesn't play the guys who do have a defensive pulse anyway.

I can see the parts to the beginnings of a decent defensive team being put together by Vlade. Interior defenders in our bigs but we need better defensive wings. If Vlade can acquire/draft the equivalent of WCS at the SG position, we would improve quite a bit.

Defense always wins....I'd like for that to be our calling card. Hire a defensive coach and go that route. We don't have a Steph Curry, we don't have a Lillard, we don't have a Westbrook.....got to go in a different direction than those teams.

Fine with me. I like to watch good defense.
But still the question remains, if a center can defend the pick&roll and defend the rim and carry the offense nowadays. That's a lot to ask for from one player.
No matter what kind of defenders we put around Cousins, Teams will always attack him in the pick&roll. I would really like to see this team figure something out to handle that.
I mean the solution can't be to give guys like Paul or Kemba any jumpshot they want.
So how do we protect Cousins from foul trouble and still manage to defend the pick&roll better?