[Grades] Grades v. Cavaliers 1/25/2017

Kings player of the game?


  • Total voters
    47
  • Poll closed .
D

DC222

Guest
Last season WCS said he got no direction from Karl. He gave Caron Butler credit for helping him find his way as a player.
Ok fine WCS was progressing well under butler last year. Surely he regressed. This 4 game is positive. I'm just not sure Joeger deserves credit for development yet like butler
 
I am not understanding a few things in this thread.
Why does everything have to be either or? Willie played well last season, but cited a lack of insight and development from GK. Willie regressed to start this season. Seems to be coming around. I think a combination of losing some confidence somewhere in the transition to a new coaching staff, as well as a style of play that is different from what he played at Kentucky and with GK, could factor into the regression.

I have been and will remain confident that WCS will be a very good player before he retires. I am sure he will pick up good and bad habits along the way from many coaches and influences. Just have to hope in the end he comes out ahead, and is still a King when all is said and done.

Just enjoying seeing him have some good games lately and building his own confidence again and earning the trust of coaching staff and team mates.
 
Ok fine WCS was progressing well under butler last year. Surely he regressed. This 4 game is positive. I'm just not sure Joeger deserves credit for development yet like butler
Last season, as much as Karl seemed to try to hinder WCS at times, he fit perfectly into the style of play. This made it easier for him to adapt to the NBA IMO.
This season, he had to learn a new offense and defence. Most of the season he seemed to be thinking his way on the court instead of just playing. That will always make you look bad. I think he is finally comfortable enough out there that he can just go out and play.
 
D

DC222

Guest
Last season, as much as Karl seemed to try to hinder WCS at times, he fit perfectly into the style of play. This made it easier for him to adapt to the NBA IMO.
This season, he had to learn a new offense and defence. Most of the season he seemed to be thinking his way on the court instead of just playing. That will always make you look bad. I think he is finally comfortable enough out there that he can just go out and play.
We shall see. I hope you are right
 
Some of Willie's problems can be blamed on the coaching change but his terrible defense up until lately has been his own doing. He's been beaten 1 on 1 a bunch this year and has racked up a ton of fouls because of it. He's picking up almost 2 more fouls per 36 than last year. Team defense you can maybe give somewhat of a pass on but I've been very disappointed with his 1 on 1 defense and shot blocking this year.
 
We were discussing that WCS was developing last season under Karl then regressed this season. Now a few good games imo isn't proof he has made his way back to sustained improvement. That was my point
I would agree that it's not proof but it is evidence that has to be taken into account.

I'm sure some people are excited to see our sophomore string a solid stretch of games together considering we haven't seen it all season. It brings people hope. It doesn't bring people satisfaction. I think you're confusing the two.
 
So if Ben comes in next game and scores 20pts on 9 shots is he a changed player in your opinion?
That, and Joerger has known all along what he's doing, knew that he would need to start Ben for exactly X games, then bench him for Y games, and the result would be the next Kobe Bryant.
 
I think WCS's problem this year is that he got confused. He was told by the new coaching staff that he will be more involved in the offense and some offense will be ran through him, so he goes out and takes it too far trying to be an offensive player, which is something he is not. He neglected the things that make him a lottery pick (shotblocker, and defense) If he just goes back be an elite defensive player and shotblocker, then he'll be just fine. Plenty of centers have been max players from just being elite shotblockers but limited offensive players, ie Deandre Jordan, Tyson Chandler. Ain't nothing wrong with that. He can still work on this jump shot in his spare time, but he needs to not forget what his strengths and talents are.
 
D

DC222

Guest
That would be a miracle
I don't think it would be a miracle. He has had plenty of big games in his career. If my memory serves me right he has a game or two w 30+ pts. He could easily string a few together. He just has flaws that eventually bring him back down. And really that's all WCS has shown in a short stint. If I'm the coach or gym im looking at the next 10 games of production
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
Ben getting enough playing time to string together some 30 point games would be far fetched at this point....I don't expect him to be with us in about a month. WCS has had to learn a system on both sides of the ball. Didnt have to do that last year.
 
Ok fine WCS was progressing well under butler last year. Surely he regressed. This 4 game is positive. I'm just not sure Joeger deserves credit for development yet like butler
I think the main point is that this coaching staff (and the front office in general) appears to be take a long term developmental goal with the young players. They challenged Willie in the summer to expand his game and to become less of a liability on offense. Did they expect him to come out and start hitting 20 footers the first game of the season, very likely not. I'm guessing part of that challenge, and the culture change in general that they have been preaching, was about doing the right things on and off the court, earning playing time, practicing hard, showing commitment and dedication to your teammates. You see regression on the court the first half of the year from Willie, and I'm guessing the coaching staff sees that as a necessary part of his development long term.

I actually think it'd kind of pointless to compare to what happened under Karl, but didn't seem like the two of them were on the same page based on his comments. Perhaps Joerger saw some of the immaturity Willie displayed late last season and that was part of the goals established for his development.
 
Put it this way. Ben is also logging time with the Kings in practice and working individually with Kings coaches. He's also got a lot more actual NBA experience and is a relatively young player. From a coaching preparation standpoint, what makes Malachi then more prepared than Ben? As a parallel, WCS looked good last year too, but in this very thread you have people saying Karl was poison to him, suggesting that him looking ready then was not to the coach's credit. So what's the difference?
ben mclemore is on his fourth head coach in as many seasons. i think it's reasonable to assume that his failures are a byproduct of organizational instability and his natural deficiencies. likewise, i think it's reasonable to assume that richardson's apparent readiness is due to a combination of greater organizational stability and his natural talents.

again, very few players exist on an island unto themselves with respect to their development. lebron most assuredly would have become great under any coaching staff and on any team. but for everybody in the middle, it's not so easy, and i wouldn't gloss over the strategy that a franchise and a coaching staff employs to better prepare young players for the rigors of nba basketball. i see logic in the kings' rhythm of allowing the rookies to see major minutes in the d-league, then calling them up for practice time with the big league team. there has been a patience and a deliberateness at work that could very well pay off in the next couple of seasons. perhaps the kings coaching staff saw that willie cauley-stein's sense of urgency occasionally gets ahead of his feet, and they wanted him to understand that he needs to earn playing time. WCS has been contrite since he saw his minutes slashed, and i think he's better understood what he needs to focus on if he wants to get on the court.

now, i'll happily grant that it's entirely possible malachi richardson would have impressed from day one, or that willie has just struggled to adjust to a new head coach and system, and a steady flow of minutes may have smoothed out those issues. but i appreciate that the kings aren't in a hurry to throw their young talents into the fire. there are countless instances across the nba of young players having their confidence crushed due to early failures on the court. and since rookies and sophomores are long-term investments, perhaps it's best not to rush things so that the franchise can maximize those assets? why do you imagine that the san antonio spurs keep churning up gold amongst little known prospects? do they just see what everybody else is missing? is it black magic? sorcery? a deal they've struck with the devil? or does their coaching staff simply place a hefty emphasis on developing young talents to succeed in their system, specifically, in part by slowly working them into the rotation?
 
ben mclemore is on his fourth head coach in as many seasons. i think it's reasonable to assume that his failures are a byproduct of organizational instability and his natural deficiencies. likewise, i think it's reasonable to assume that richardson's apparent readiness is due to a combination of greater organizational stability and his natural talents.

again, very few players exist on an island unto themselves with respect to their development. lebron most assuredly would have become great under any coaching staff and on any team. but for everybody in the middle, it's not so easy, and i wouldn't gloss over the strategy that a franchise and a coaching staff employs to better prepare young players for the rigors of nba basketball. i see logic in the kings' rhythm of allowing the rookies to see major minutes in the d-league, then calling them up for practice time with the big league team. there has been a patience and a deliberateness at work that could very well pay off in the next couple of seasons. perhaps the kings coaching staff saw that willie cauley-stein's sense of urgency occasionally gets ahead of his feet, and they wanted him to understand that he needs to earn playing time. WCS has been contrite since he saw his minutes slashed, and i think he's better understood what he needs to focus on if he wants to get on the court.

now, i'll happily grant that it's entirely possible malachi richardson would have impressed from day one, or that willie has just struggled to adjust to a new head coach and system, and a steady flow of minutes may have smoothed out those issues. but i appreciate that the kings aren't in a hurry to throw their young talents into the fire. there are countless instances across the nba of young players having their confidence crushed due to early failures on the court. and since rookies and sophomores are long-term investments, perhaps it's best not to rush things so that the franchise can maximize those assets? why do you imagine that the san antonio spurs keep churning up gold amongst little known prospects? do they just see what everybody else is missing? is it black magic? sorcery? a deal they've struck with the devil? or does their coaching staff simply place a hefty emphasis on developing young talents to succeed in their system, specifically, in part by slowly working them into the rotation?
McLemore just can't dribble the ball at all. I don't blame the coaching carousel on that. You can either handle the ball or you can't. These coaches aren't coming in with a completely different philosophy on how to handle the basketball. It's pretty much the same for every player. If you're a SG and you can't dribble the ball more than two steps without it going off your knee or getting stolen, then you're going to have trouble staying in this league unless you bring other positives to the table such as Korver shooting or Tony Allen defense and effort. McLemore could be a good shooter but for whatever reason he's not. Whether he just doesn't have a good touch despite the nice form or whether he just doesn't have the confidence, I can't say. What I do know is that he doesn't seem to have a knack for anything on the court. I don't blame that on the coaches. He could possibly flourish in a perfect system where he has ball handlers all around him that could draw defenders and kick out to him but there are probably 100 other guys in the D League that could bring you the exact same thing in the same system.
 
D

DC222

Guest
You seriously think Ben is going to step foot on the court, let alone be out there long enough to score 20 pts?
Heck no. Just an example. But the production is possible, if say all the other guards on the team got the flu.