[Grades] Grades v. Altitude, the Refs, & the Celtics

[Bricklayer]

It wasn't a 1 game blip. The altitude was a factor but not a crippling one. We played the same poopooty defense against Dallas and got lucky. We've played the same poopooty defense all year -- good enough for a .350 winning percentage. That's why we have 2 wins against the Western Conference in 11 tries. Cousins, Gay, and Rondo are all capable of getting hot and carrying us but the reality is we're always going to be a sub .500 team if we don't play any defense. As we've seen for the last oh, 8 years or so, one win per week when our shots are dropping isn't going to get us anywhere. We've had one stretch of sustained winning this season against 3 Eastern Conference teams at home when Rondo averaged 45 minutes per game. That's not a reliable game plan either. So unless George Karl wakes up tomorrow and completely changes his basketball philosophy, clinging onto him like a security blanket means we're ****ed.

no, we're a sub .500 team because Cousins got hurt, simple as that.

With him on the floor we're 6-6 now. And in 2 of those 6 losses we only had him partway.

The lack of defense is this franchise's huge ongoing issue, but even with it we're been competitive with Cousins out there.

 

[Bricklayer]

Not this again. The guy needs to stay away from the internet. Either come out and say what he wants to say, or keep it to himself. The Twitter "mystery clue games" are getting really old

Rondo ejection, fairly obvious.

But not quite so obvious you get a fine for it.

 

[VF21]

I think he's making a joke about the Rondo ejection.

I truly hope so, but I just cringed when I saw it because I KNOW how some of the national media will spin it.

 

[SLAB]

^^ That has to be about Rajon getting thrown out for STARING at referee.

 

[VF21]

Rondo ejection, fairly obvious.

But not quite so obvious you get a fine for it.

Oh, duh... "LOOK" ... damn. I need to step away from Twitter for a while.

 

[Section 101]

The Celtics arrived today for the game. Shame on you if you don't understand the effects of altitude. By arriving a day or two early, the Kings did themselves a disservice. And this is from someone who lives at altitude and had to learn to deal with it just from my trips back and forth to Sacramento.

EDIT: I am not saying tonight's game was as bad as it was solely because of the effect of altitude. I am saying, however, with a certain amount of experience, that it could well have been a factor.

Kings arrived on Tuesday, Celtics on Wednesday. Teams have to be in the city the day before a game.

 

[theclash4u5]

And speaking of the "shooting themselves in the foot" syndrome, this just showed up on Twitter:

DeMarcus Cousins ‏@boogiecousins 4m4 minutes ago
Don't look to hard

...

---------------------------------------------------------

No idea what he's talking about, but at this point I'd just as soon not see anything on Twitter from anybody in a Kings uniform. They all need to just STFU and do their jobs.

Did he delete this? Not on his twitter anymore

 

[lawlman91]

to think that this could have been avoided if it weren't for jazz band dreams

 

[VF21]

Did he delete this? Not on his twitter anymore

Looks like sanity may have prevailed. Either that, or Rondo may have told him it wasn't a good idea.

 

[206Fan]

Shame on anybody who voted altitude wtf. The Celtics played on the same court

Lol I voted altitude thinking it was attitude. The Kings were garbage tonight outside of Gay, and maybe Ben and Curry.

They weren't great, but at least they showed they wanted to play tonight.

 

[VF21]

Kings arrived on Tuesday, Celtics on Wednesday. Teams have to be in the city the day before a game.

I'm not sure that's true. I could swear I heard someone say that the Celtics got to Mexico City about 5-6 hours before game time. And I know there have been times when the Kings haven't arrived in a game city until the day of the game.

 

[Suicide King]

One thing that is bothering me is that we are blowing a golden opportunity in that the West has taken a baby step back so far this season. With the injury to Gobert for the Jazz and other lower rung playoff hopefuls not really running away yet we have a good opportunity to get into the hunt and we are blowing it.

I think tasting a little playoff hope and fighting to hold on to it would be extremely beneficial to many of our self inflicted woes. Yet we continue to plod along like missing a playoff birth is a forgone conclusion. As a sometimes " detrimental to my health " kings fanatic it just makes me a sad man. For my favorite team to be relevant once a decade isnt to much to ask. Is it?

 

[hrdboild]

no, we're a sub .500 team because Cousins got hurt, simple as that.

With him on the floor we're 6-6 now. And in 2 of those 6 losses we only had him partway.

The lack of defense is this franchise's huge ongoing issue, but even with it we're been competitive with Cousins out there.

Are we actually competitive though? With Cousins we beat the Lakers (who we thankfully get to play 3 more times this year), Pistons, Raptors, Magic, Nets, and Mavs. Only one of those wins was on the road. The win against Toronto is the only one that suggests playoff possibilities and that was a scrap right to the end. Those are the same type of wins we've had here for the past 7 years of sub-30 win seasons. Maybe if we pulled off one of those Clippers games (and they've suddenly looked very beatable this year), maybe if we didn't get blown off the court by the best 2 teams in our conference I'd agree with you that we're on the verge of making a run. It does feel a little bit different this year -- we're getting solid bench production, Cousins has been scoring like crazy, Rondo looks like a third star -- there's more than enough talent on hand to be a winning team. But the defense isn't just poor, it's atrocious and if anything it seems to be getting worse as the season goes on. I just don't see Cousins consistently stringing together 40 point scoring nights game after game as we watch every lead we manage to build evaporate in a couple of minutes. You don't become a playoff team by hoping you can out shoot the other team, the defense needs to come first.

 

[VF21]

One more great side effect of playing at altitude?

Jeff Bradway ‏@jeffbradway 5m5 minutes ago
Red blood cell count increases within 24 - 48 hours. But other altitude sickness symptoms take longer to go away.

That means they may still be feeling some effects on Saturday. Whoever planned this little side trip needs to be flogged.

 

[DeMoN]

Ref's came in not wanting to give anything to Cousins. Give credit to the boston for their interior D.. my god

 

[enigma99a]

I saw a well-coached and well-conditioned team vs. a poorly coached and poorly conditioned one.
No contest. Total domination. Kings are fooling themselves if they think they are a playoff team.

The passivity of our coach is rubbing off on the team and not in a good way. I question the physical conditioning of:

Rudy
Willie
Cuz

They are in good shape. Not in NBA shape. The Celts ran them out of the gym.

I can't speak for Rudy and Cuz, but WCS has sickle cell trait. Means he has a really hard time with oxygen basically. And for him to go to 7,200 ft and play an NBA game, it must have been a real challenge... I feel sorry for the guy

 

[enigma99a]

Refs were really bad tonight, maybe we can blame the altitude. Who knows.

Curry has proven to be such a good shooter so we need to be trying to get him more looks. Makes me upset when we have a guy shooting 70% from 3Point and he doesn't even touch the ball. Saw him wide open many occasions tonight and nobody was looking for him. Also his defense is really good, always fighting through screens etc.

 

[DeMoN]

Is it just me or does it seem like the team bonded a little much. Maybe had a few extra beers?

 

[KingsFanGER]

So in other words altitude can be more of a factor in a blowout loss to a team that is obviously less talented, than pride?

The Celtics may be less talented, but their talent fits together and fits into a system, that will allow them to overachieve as a unit.
They assembled a nice group of players, that can hit jumpshots, can attack with a live dribble and will play a good swarming defense. The key is versatility from multiple positions.
No big names, but still a superior team from my point of view.

 

[IfAt1st]

The Celts were a buzzsaw tonight.

I'm with Brick - I'm absolutely PISSED at the NBA for robbing the Kings of a homegame - but what's worse is - they basically scheduled an auto-loss for forcing the Kings to play an absurdly-conditioned, fast, athletic, bombing team against them at 2,000 ft higher altitude than even Denver!

In retrospect, this was an insta-loss the second it was on the calendar.
The Celtics have speed and energy at EVERY position, and combined with the refs' absolute inability to consider anything they were doing illegal in the first quarter, the game was over quickly.

I am wondering, however, what the hell Karl is doing.
Does he know what team he is coaching?
Does he know who is playing for him?
Because he REALLY looks like he thinks he has young, energetic athletic players that can run all day at altitude, like he did in Denver.

This team simply cannot play like he thinks teams should play.

He continues to make the same mistakes, over and over and over this year, yet doesn't change what he's coaching.
Even with us and even with Carmichael Dave going on the air and questioning him repeatedly over his bafflement as to why Karl is yanking WCS out of the lineup after he gets two quick fouls (when he only plays him 12 minutes anyway), he did it again tonight.
It totally destabilized the team, and they quickly went into a chasm.
But the really baffling thing is - Karl saw his team being absolutely run out of the gym - completely gassed, every shot was way short on the front of the rim..... and he didn't call a timeout.

That's some serious attitude, there.
That's someone who is adamant that he believes these players should be able to run around at top-speed at a mile-and-a-half altitude and **** them if they can't keep up - I'm not gonna call a timeout to reset things and try to fix it - I'm just gonna let us lose right here in the first quarter just to make my petty point.

I'm sorry, guys, but I've been feeling there's another mutiny coming for a couple games, now, and I really don't see how this team as currently staffed is going to survive it.

 

[sono]

This, after all those meetings?

 

[Bricklayer]

Well I certainly did not see the issue beforehand. Thought we would beat them. Still think we would have beat them in Sacramento. They aren't that good.

But we were almost unwatchable from the opening bell of this one. Looked completely exhausted. Were the Celtics good? Maybe. But more than anything IT just looked like he'd been born at altitude and was running twice as fast as our guys just visibly, VISIBLY dragged around the court, took shots with dead legs, and obviously did not hustle after balls. You could see it. A ball would be loose, and there was this hesitation as our guys all had to force themselves to lurch after it. When we got bumped and hit the floor, nobody bounced up off it. Never been to Mexico City, but after watching that don't think I ever want to go -- looked like we were halfway up Everest and got rousted from our tents at midnight to play a game. The Cs just had vastly more energy than us, so of course they ran circles around us.

I think people are drawing far far too many conclusions from this. That wasn't us. We haven't played like that. Something was going on, and given the environment, you've got several choices. Physically we were shot from the opening tip.

 

[Livinthedream]

I can't speak for Rudy and Cuz, but WCS has sickle cell trait. Means he has a really hard time with oxygen basically. And for him to go to 7,200 ft and play an NBA game, it must have been a real challenge... I feel sorry for the guy

I don't feel sorry for him, but I empathize. It definitely makes the situation worse for him. A bigger hindrance on him than anyone else.

The only thing I can say about the altitude for everyone elae is that the Celtics were playing in the same arena.

 

[KingsFanGER]

The Celts were a buzzsaw tonight.

I'm with Brick - I'm absolutely PISSED at the NBA for robbing the Kings of a homegame - but what's worse is - they basically scheduled an auto-loss for forcing the Kings to play an absurdly-conditioned, fast, athletic, bombing team against them at 2,000 ft higher altitude than even Denver!

In retrospect, this was an insta-loss the second it was on the calendar.
The Celtics have speed and energy at EVERY position, and combined with the refs' absolute inability to consider anything they were doing illegal in the first quarter, the game was over quickly.

I am wondering, however, what the hell Karl is doing.
Does he know what team he is coaching?
Does he know who is playing for him?
Because he REALLY looks like he thinks he has young, energetic athletic players that can run all day at altitude, like he did in Denver.

This team simply cannot play like he thinks teams should play.

He continues to make the same mistakes, over and over and over this year, yet doesn't change what he's coaching.
Even with us and even with Carmichael Dave going on the air and questioning him repeatedly over his bafflement as to why Karl is yanking WCS out of the lineup after he gets two quick fouls (when he only plays him 12 minutes anyway), he did it again tonight.
It totally destabilized the team, and they quickly went into a chasm.
But the really baffling thing is - Karl saw his team being absolutely run out of the gym - completely gassed, every shot was way short on the front of the rim..... and he didn't call a timeout.

That's some serious attitude, there.
That's someone who is adamant that he believes these players should be able to run around at top-speed at a mile-and-a-half altitude and **** them if they can't keep up - I'm not gonna call a timeout to reset things and try to fix it - I'm just gonna let us lose right here in the first quarter just to make my petty point.

I'm sorry, guys, but I've been feeling there's another mutiny coming for a couple games, now, and I really don't see how this team as currently staffed is going to survive it.

The Celtics play chubby Sully, Olynyk, Johnson and Lee as their bigs. Absurdely conditioned, fast and athletic are not the attributes, that come to my mind, when thinking about these guys.
I would give us the edge, when it comes to front court athleticsm.
And the guard line looks pretty even to me, when it comes to athleticism and quickness.

The difference is that Sully, Kelly , Amir and Jonas will all shoot and hit jumpshots throughout the game. For the Celtics the floor is always spread wide open. The Celtics are not the most efficient 3 point shooting team, but they shoot a high volume and when you give them wide open looks, they will tear you apart.

With Casspi out our floor spacing got even worse than it usually is. And with the aggressive defense the Celtics are playing, that has the sole purpose of creating steals, it really played into their strengths.

Brad Stevens is on a different level than Karl.
But the key to the Celtics success is no rocket science. It all starts with the energy and hard work every player puts in on the defensive end.
And making excuses, that we don't have the personnel, to put in excactly this type of effort, is wrong from my point of view.
It's a mindset and constant exercise to play good defense. The fact that we miss rotations, give up wide open 3's to good shooters and allow open driving lanes with no help and no communication 20 games into the season is the problem.
This may be a coaching thing, because the focus in preseason wasn't on defense. But more likely it's just lack of effort, smarts and pride from our players.

 

[Livinthedream]

The Celtics play chubby Sully, Olynyk, Johnson and Lee as their bigs. Absurdely conditioned, fast and athletic are not the attributes, that come to my mind, when thinking about these guys.
I would give us the edge, when it comes to front court athleticsm.
And the guard line looks pretty even to me, when it comes to athleticism and quickness.

The difference is that Sully, Kelly , Amir and Jonas will all shoot and hit jumpshots throughout the game. For the Celtics the floor is always spread wide open. The Celtics are not the most efficient 3 point shooting team, but they shoot a high volume and when you give them wide open looks, they will tear you apart.

With Casspi out our floor spacing got even worse than it usually is. And with the aggressive defense the Celtics are playing, that has the sole purpose of creating steals, it really played into their strengths.

Brad Stevens is on a different level than Karl.
But the key to the Celtics success is no rocket science. It all starts with the energy and hard work every player puts in on the defensive end.
And making excuses, that we don't have the personnel, to put in excactly this type of effort, is wrong from my point of view.
It's a mindset and constant exercise to play good defense. The fact that we miss rotations, give up wide open 3's to good shooters and allow open driving lanes with no help and no communication 20 games into the season is the problem.
This may be a coaching thing, because the focus in preseason wasn't on defense. But more likely it's just lack of effort, smarts and pride from our players.

I don't get the feeling it's pride. I'm more in the coaching problem camp. The reason there is training camp, preseason and practices is to set a culture, mindset and system. Even though these guys are professionals, they still must practice what they do. Actually, it's even more important to practice what you want to accomplish at this level. As a professional They are pushing their bodies and minds beyond what the normal person does, so they must condition themselves.

If you're not focusing on and training your mind and body to play tough aggressive defense as a team, then you won't match the intensity level of other professional athletes who do. You can't just turn it on and off.

The coaching staff has to emphasise and practice defense in order for us to get better. At 20 games in, the culture is set and I don't think it gets turned around without a new coach who cares about D.

 

[dude12]

Celtics had open looks at 3's time and time again....just like most teams. If you can knock down your open looks against the Kings, your going to win.

 

[chief bromden]

The Kings crumbled last night when the game got tough. The refs didn't help, but it was Boston ! Mediocre ceiling guys whipping on the 'stars' of Cousins, Rondo, and Gay. Will Gay ever pass when he dribbles into the lane? Not even when the game has been decided? Not sure why I keep up my wishful thinking. Collison still looks terrible, hardly remember his 2014-15 version anymore. Marco, Ben...the defense. Just a genuinely bad night, ugh...

At least Cousins had the right amount of blood cells and conditioning to bring his 'A' Twitter game.

 

[SacKings384]

Altitude is hell on you if you don't adjust for it. You don't sleep as well, your muscles don't react as well and - if you're not in peak condition - you can pay the price. You also run the risk of your own digestive system turning on you, if you eat what would be a normal meal you sometimes find your system is not processing the food the same way.

I think the Kings made a big mistake in getting to Mexico City early. They should have followed the lead of the Celtics and not shown up until game day. They most likely would have been better off.

FWIW I am in excellent shape (not to brag but to prove a point) and in Peru on my way to Machu Pichu I thought I would have no problems. I live in Denver too. The town you stay in before you trek to Machu Picchu is at ~11,5000 feet, or twice the elevation of Denver. I literally thought I was going to die. I was bedridden for three days. Fluid built up in my lungs. Couldn't eat. The works. If they did show up early... Man is that stupid. You don't acclimate in one day, in fact it's quite the opposite.

 

[hrdboild]

FWIW I am in excellent shape (not to brag but to prove a point) and in Peru on my way to Machu Pichu I thought I would have no problems. I live in Denver too. The town you stay in before you trek to Machu Picchu is at ~11,5000 feet, or twice the elevation of Denver. I literally thought I was going to die. I was bedridden for three days. Fluid built up in my lungs. Couldn't eat. The works. If they did show up early... Man is that stupid. You don't acclimate in one day, in fact it's quite the opposite.

I've never heard of anyone suffering altitude sickness below 8000 feet. It's absolutely a real condition that affects people regardless of their level of physical fitness. I've seen it happen to other people and it's happened to me in a mild way (basically just a terrible headache that won't go away). 7300 feet is going to take some of your wind but equating it to what you experience at 11,500 feet is really a stretch. The inability of the refs to call the game straight was a bigger factor in our first quarter collapse than the altitude was I think. Cousins was forcing some ugly shots through contact, nobody could get anywhere near their little guys without picking up a foul. Over the past 10 years the NBA has apparently decided that it's going to call the game in a way that drastically favors quick ball handlers. Look at the current scoring leaderboard (here) -- there are 9 small guards in the top 20. Compare that to 5 years ago (2010) or 10 years ago (2005). They're going to continue to call the game however they want to call the game. It's on us to make the adjustment.

 

[andjel]

somehow I am not upset with this loss. Charlotte and Minnesota, pissed off. This time not.
I can understand that one player does not show up, but when every single player on the floor looks like they are running through the water from the opening minute that is not usual nor sustainable (in a bad way) stuff. This is a first loss I do not blame anyone (coach included) and just go with "it happens" attitude.

It is time to win one of those that we are not supposed to, Houston or OKC. Utah is a must win now.