Getting Garcia minutes....

S

Smills91

Starter
We gotta find this guy minutes and realistically there our only two options. Trade Artest or trade salmons. I think Artest would help us bring back a big man moreso than Salmons would, and I really like salmons versatility. Also, I think Geoff has had it with Artest and could very well look to deal him this off-season.

Kings deal:
Ron Artest
Kenny Thomas

Knicks deal:
Channing Frye
Malik Rose
Q-Rich
Rights to Bulls pick via Knicks

Kings line-up:

C: Brad Miller, Justin Williams
PF: Channing Frye, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Malik Rose
SF: Francisco Garcia, Quentin Richardson
SG: Kevin Martin, John Salmons, Quincy Douby
PG: Mike Bibby, Ronnie Price

We'd have our two draft picks...just take the best players available and we'd have our 14 man roster at that point.
 
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How about Ron and KT for Theo Ratliff and a second round pick?

We cut a little on salary, and we pick up a decent guy at the start of the 2nd round? Plus a $12M ender.

Haven't really thought it through, just off the top of my head...
 
Why do we have to get Garcia minutes? I'm sorry, a few good games late in the season does not a franchise player make. He's 25, he's still not that great, and if you look at his numbers over the course of the season it's not much of an improvement over last season.

I mean, I'm all for trading Artest, but it had better result in a good small forward, because I'm far from convinced that Garcia is the future at SF.
 
Smills91 said:
Kings deal:
Ron Artest
Kenny Thomas

Knicks deal:
Channing Frye
Malik Rose
Q-Rich
Rights to Bulls pick via Knicks

Kings line-up:

C: Brad Miller, Justin Williams
PF: Channing Frye, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Malik Rose
SF: Francisco Garcia, Quentin Richardson
SG: Kevin Martin, John Salmons, Quincy Douby
PG: Mike Bibby, Ronnie Price
Click to expand...

I like that idea a lot, frye is young decent big n i like q rich since his days back with the suns, he is a decent shooter n just doesnt get any pt with the knicks and when he does play he puts up decent numbers. Plus another draft pick would be sweet. I cant stand KT so i would love to see him go and trading Artest kinda sucks but its a step towards rebuilding so im all for it.
 
nbrans said:
Why do we have to get Garcia minutes? I'm sorry, a few good games late in the season does not a franchise player make. He's 25, he's still not that great, and if you look at his numbers over the course of the season it's not much of an improvement over last season.

I mean, I'm all for trading Artest, but it had better result in a good small forward, because I'm far from convinced that Garcia is the future at SF.
Click to expand...

Well I guess that's where we differ...in my proposed deal you'd have Garcia/Q-Rich/Salmons all capable of playing the 3. We add another pick and Channing Frye to go with our own pick. We can shore up our front court and pick a Brandon Rush type player with the Bulls pick if still on the board. I think we'd have our bases covered, and we'd be shifting the direction of this team towards the youth.
 
Smills91 said:
Kings deal:
Ron Artest
Kenny Thomas

Knicks deal:
Channing Frye
Malik Rose
Q-Rich
Rights to Bulls pick via Knicks

Kings line-up:

C: Brad Miller, Justin Williams
PF: Channing Frye, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Malik Rose
SF: Francisco Garcia, Quentin Richardson
SG: Kevin Martin, John Salmons, Quincy Douby
PG: Mike Bibby, Ronnie Price

We'd have our two draft picks...
Click to expand...


I like the idea in principle, although I honestly can't say I'm too concerned about getting Cisco minutes as a top priority at the moment.

But I have one question. I thought the Knicks sent that pick to the Bulls in the Curry trade. Meaning we'd have to trade with the BULLS to get it because they own it.

That's how it works isn't it? Utah has our second round pick from the Keon deal ... if someone wanted it, they would go through Utah, not us.

Or is this a different pick?
 
Löwenherz said:
I like the idea in principle, although I honestly can't say I'm too concerned about getting Cisco minutes as a top priority at the moment.

But I have one question. I thought the Knicks sent that pick to the Bulls in the Curry trade. Meaning we'd have to trade with the BULLS to get it because they own it.

That's how it works isn't it? Utah has our second round pick from the Keon deal ... if someone wanted it, they would go through Utah, not us.

Or is this a different pick?
Click to expand...


Knicks would draft for us and send the rights to that pick to us. The trade would probably happen right after they picked during the draft. It's the Bulls slot VIA the Knicks. SO we're only dealing with the Knicks since the Bulls are almost assuredly swapping picks with the knicks.
 
Smills91 said:
We gotta find this guy minutes and realistically there our only two options. Trade Artest or trade salmons. I think Artest would help us bring back a big man moreso than Salmons would, and I really like salmons versatility. Also, I think Geoff has had it with Artest and could very well look to deal him this off-season.

Kings deal:
Ron Artest
Kenny Thomas

Knicks deal:
Channing Frye
Malik Rose
Q-Rich
Rights to Bulls pick via Knicks

Kings line-up:

C: Brad Miller, Justin Williams
PF: Channing Frye, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Malik Rose
SF: Francisco Garcia, Quentin Richardson
SG: Kevin Martin, John Salmons, Quincy Douby
PG: Mike Bibby, Ronnie Price

We'd have our two draft picks...just take the best players available and we'd have our 14 man roster at that point.
Click to expand...

We need to trade both Artest and Salmons. I'd trade Salmons to Phoenix - they wanted him, after all. And we aren't going to be in Phoenix's league for quite a while, so it wouldn't bother me to trade him to the competition.
 
nbrans said:
Why do we have to get Garcia minutes? I'm sorry, a few good games late in the season does not a franchise player make. He's 25, he's still not that great, and if you look at his numbers over the course of the season it's not much of an improvement over last season.

I mean, I'm all for trading Artest, but it had better result in a good small forward, because I'm far from convinced that Garcia is the future at SF.
Click to expand...

Howbout switch out Frye for Balkman? That would make me feel alright with this trade.

I dunno why everyone likes Frye so much...Do we really need another softie big that doesnt rebound or block shots on our team?
 
Kingster said:
We need to trade both Artest and Salmons. I'd trade Salmons to Phoenix - they wanted him, after all. And we aren't going to be in Phoenix's league for quite a while, so it wouldn't bother me to trade him to the competition.
Click to expand...



I think the Lakers would covet Salmons personally, moreso than PHX...maybe a Salmons/Artest/Ke. Thomas for Odom/Kwame/2nd rounder deal could be in order?

Draft Conley in 1st
Fazekas in 2nd

Kings new line-up:

C: Brad Miller, Kwame Brown*(~8 million)
PF: Shareef Abur-Rahim, Justin Williams, Nick Fazekas
SF: Lamar Odom, Corliss Williamson
SG: Kevin Martin, Francisco Garica, Quincy Douby
PG: Mike Bibby, Mike Conley Jr., Ronnie Price

*expiring

That team looks like a better rebounding and passing team IMO.
 
Kingster said:
We need to trade both Artest and Salmons. I'd trade Salmons to Phoenix - they wanted him, after all. And we aren't going to be in Phoenix's league for quite a while, so it wouldn't bother me to trade him to the competition.
Click to expand...

No, we don't need to trade both Artest and Salmons, especially if it's just to get more minutes for Cisco Garcia. A team needs a full roster. Part of that roster is role players. Salmons has more than stepped up and filled the bill during his season here. I would be very adverse to giving him up, especially under the guise of getting Cisco more minutes. If Garcia is as good as people think, he'll earn his minutes - not have them handed to him on a platter.
 
Smills91 said:
I think the Lakers would covet Salmons personally, moreso than PHX...maybe a Salmons/Artest/Ke. Thomas for Odom/Kwame/2nd rounder deal could be in order?

Draft Conley in 1st
Fazekas in 2nd

Kings new line-up:

C: Brad Miller, Kwame Brown*(~8 million)
PF: Shareef Abur-Rahim, Justin Williams, Nick Fazekas
SF: Lamar Odom, Corliss Williamson
SG: Kevin Martin, Francisco Garica, Quincy Douby
PG: Mike Bibby, Mike Conley Jr., Ronnie Price

*expiring

That team looks like a better rebounding and passing team IMO.
Click to expand...

But it still doesn't look anything like an elite team. AND you've dealt with the devil in the process. (Not to mention making an assumption the Lakers would trade for Kenny Thomas, which I defy you to explain.)
 
VF21 said:
But it still doesn't look anything like an elite team. AND you've dealt with the devil in the process. (Not to mention making an assumption the Lakers would trade for Kenny Thomas, which I defy you to explain.)
Click to expand...


I don't know what you expect in terms of becoming elite because we;re not going to become an elite team in one fell swoop, we need to postion ourselves to do that. This and my other trades begin that process. We add youth, decrease salary and acquire picks in these deal. We build around a core and potentiallly allow ourselves to draft talent, sign free agents and make more trades with the assets that we acquire in the first two option to shape and mold the team into an elite team. It won't happen in 1 season, I'm thinking bare minimum 2-3 seasons to do that.
 
You have so many different threads floating it's hard to keep them apart. And while some of them may be decent, I think you're putting the cart before the horse. And, unless I'm mistaken, do ANY of them include trading Garcia?

Where have you been? We tried "building around a core" ... the results were abysmal. Why? Because our core just didn't fit with the pieces.

Sorry, but I'm just not impressed with the majority of your proposals. If you would rather I only comment when I think you've got something worth talking about, I can do that...

My primary objection to most trade proposals, and yours pretty much make the same conceptual mistake IMHO, is that people tend to overlook a player's shortcomings when trying to say why the other team would take him.

For example, WHY would the Lakers agree to take Kenny Thomas? And please, let's be serious... They don't need him. AND I'm not really sure Phil Jackson would be all that excited about having to deal with not only Kobe's ego but Ron's... AND I'm pretty sure the Maloofs will not okay deals like what you've proposed with the Lakers.

Since you asked, what I expect is a little more reality in trade proposals and a little less "video game" rationale. But maybe that's just me.

Peace.
 
i'm pretty sure that everyone on the board understands that the kings suck. also, we all understand that no one is going to want to trade for our reject starters. However, in a season for the kings that has been as pathetic and sad as this one, i believe that a little optimism is okay... we're fans - we put hope that the team will get lucky and things will turn out well... we may know what a piece of crap Thomas does, but that doesn't mean that there isn't some team that wants him (not that i think there is... but you might as well decide the cup is half full).

Also, i agree with smills91 that vf21 is expecting too much out of a possible trade thread. there is no single trade that we could make that would suddenly make this team contenders. if you are looking to get this team back to being an elite team by making one trade than i suggest that you take a break from those video games as well. i don't see how you could even have such high expectations when the team is as sorry as it is.

anyway just felt that everyone should relax a bit and not be so uptight... perhaps people aren't in their best spirits because of this season, but take a chill pill.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Honolulu Kings Fan said:
Also, i agree with smills91 that vf21 is expecting too much out of a possible trade thread. there is no single trade that we could make that would suddenly make this team contenders. if you are looking to get this team back to being an elite team by making one trade than i suggest that you take a break from those video games as well. i don't see how you could even have such high expectations when the team is as sorry as it is.
Click to expand...

No, actually all I'm saying is that a lot of times people post trade scenarios that aren't realistic. I've never said that one trade could take us back to elite status. In fact, I've often pretty much said just the opposite. It's going to take a lot more than one trade to fix the problems of the Kings.

anyway just felt that everyone should relax a bit and not be so uptight... perhaps people aren't in their best spirits because of this season, but take a chill pill.
Click to expand...

I don't think Smills91 is taking my comments personally. This is a message board. People post trade proposals with the pretty certain knowledge they're putting them out there for people to shoot down.
 
Smills91 said:
We gotta find this guy minutes and realistically there our only two options. Trade Artest or trade salmons. I think Artest would help us bring back a big man moreso than Salmons would, and I really like salmons versatility. Also, I think Geoff has had it with Artest and could very well look to deal him this off-season.

Kings deal:
Ron Artest
Kenny Thomas

Knicks deal:
Channing Frye
Malik Rose
Q-Rich
Rights to Bulls pick via Knicks

Kings line-up:

C: Brad Miller, Justin Williams
PF: Channing Frye, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Malik Rose
SF: Francisco Garcia, Quentin Richardson
SG: Kevin Martin, John Salmons, Quincy Douby
PG: Mike Bibby, Ronnie Price

We'd have our two draft picks...just take the best players available and we'd have our 14 man roster at that point.
Click to expand...

I've thrown around this very deal before, and like it for reasons other than just getting Garcia. Swapping Rose's deal for KT gets us out from the salary two years earlier, and getting a nice young piece in Frye wouldn't hurt. I've always thought of Q-Rich as a potential Bonzi replacement too.

With the two picks, I'd select Hibbert and McRoberts, or maybe try to package the two to move up. That would give us a young corps of:

Hibbert/Williams
Frye/McRoberts
Garcia
Martin/Douby
Price

And we'd still have Miller, Bibby and SAR to deal for more picks/youth. Not a bad start to a rebuild.
 
LPKingsFan said:
I've thrown around this very deal before, and like it for reasons other than just getting Garcia. Swapping Rose's deal for KT gets us out from the salary two years earlier, and getting a nice young piece in Frye wouldn't hurt. I've always thought of Q-Rich as a potential Bonzi replacement too.

With the two picks, I'd select Hibbert and McRoberts, or maybe try to package the two to move up. That would give us a young corps of:

Hibbert/Williams
Frye/McRoberts
Garcia
Martin/Douby
Price

And we'd still have Miller, Bibby and SAR to deal for more picks/youth. Not a bad start to a rebuild.
Click to expand...

I'd pass on McRoberts...I think that guy has bust written all over him.
 
LPKingsFan said:
Not sold on McRoberts either, but would rather get another big man with that later pick. Or a PG, but I doubt Law or Conley will be available then.
Click to expand...
I like Darren Collison with a pick in the 15-25 range. I think he could slip into that range, IF he declares for the draft. Either take Conley with our pick or go big.
 
VF21 said:
No, we don't need to trade both Artest and Salmons, especially if it's just to get more minutes for Cisco Garcia. A team needs a full roster. Part of that roster is role players. Salmons has more than stepped up and filled the bill during his season here. I would be very adverse to giving him up, especially under the guise of getting Cisco more minutes. If Garcia is as good as people think, he'll earn his minutes - not have them handed to him on a platter.
Click to expand...

To me, Salmons epitomizes the 8th playoff spot. Very pedestrian. I like Cisco better than Salmons. And Cisco doesn't play well unless he gets minutes. He will never show his true value unless he gets those minutes. So, Salmons goes. Other GMs know Salmon's value - what you see is what you get. He doesn't have the athleticism of Cisco, and Cisco is showing to me that he's going to be a better shooter than Salmons. I like having the competition, but I'd rather have it come from a younger, more athletic talent than Salmons.
 
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