Although I'm not as pleased with the last move made by GP, I still have to say we are not looking as dim as some think.
If you are wondering how we are going to fare next year just look at our division. The Clippers are the only decent team. And we own them. We have enough youth to "run" with the Suns, + there is no guarantee that Amare will be OK. The Kobes still aren't a team. The Warriors are equally as garbage.
I see us making the playoffs and again our young ones will gain valuable experience. As of right now I think we are one big man away from being a complete enough team to compete.
We are more than 1 big man away. Right now we have Miller (no defense), Pot (no idea + he is old) and Williams (who is a rook and can't be depended on to win you a championship). We need a couple of big men and we need to clear up our guard postions, there are just too many guards on our team.
Hmm...I am going to assume here that you are not inentionally trying to be disingenuous in the belief that i somehow was going to miss it. But either way as you likely realize the vast majority of those guys actually retired with their teams after long title runs. Kind of hard to get a return on a guy who retires in your uniform (or a guy like Parish who should have but refused to quit playing at 40).
We didn't get any retirements in our uniforms. Or anything else out of our players. Even when solid inbetween moves were made, in the end we let the talent walk, and now its all dead loss. And along the way the secret of how you take a 60 win team and turn it into a 44 win 8th seed gets a lot easier to see.
3) Here is a summation of Geoff's recent accomplishments: He has now managed to turn Vlade Divac, Chris Webber, Doug Christie and Bobby Jackson into...Kenny Thomas, Corliss Williamson, and Vitaly Potapenko. Luckily for him the Maloofs insisted on a Peja for Ron deal or that could look much much worse. Can;t wait to see what he turns Bibby into.![]()
I mean, if you want to judge trades in a vacuum solely on extrapolating who we ended up with, by your rationale the Richmond for Webber trade was terrible because we ended up with Kenny Thomas. Or was it the Billy Owens for Richmond trade that started our downfall? Clearly.
Yes quite. Makes a lot sense. Obviously the 7 year rental of Chris Webebr was no more significant than the 1 year at most we've gotten out of our assorted moves since. Clearly.
Sell it someplace else.
Fact is that the only thing we have to show for the core of a title contender is Ron Artest, and that was forced down Geoff's throat by the owners. And that's why we have been playing catchup amidst constantly downward spiraling win totals. No matter how many MLEs we sign or late round draft picks we get, they are having to replace better players who we weren't able to cash in for anything.
Fact is that the only thing we have to show for the core of a title contender is Ron Artest, and that was forced down Geoff's throat by the owners. And that's why we have been playing catchup amidst constantly downward spiraling win totals. No matter how many MLEs we sign or late round draft picks we get, they are having to replace better players who we weren't able to cash in for anything.
And enough with that BS that Geoff didn't want Artest. I know you want to give the Maloofs credit for all good and blame Geoff for all bad, but stop passing that off as fact when it's pure speculation on your part.
Word. Unfortunately some people just don't want to see the big picture right now.Teams rarely have anything resembling a decent team after being a title contender, since contending teams are generally made up of players in their primes and veterans. When their time is up, there is almost always a rebuilding phase. Chicago, Detroit, Houston & Boston all struggled mightily following their runs as their stars broke down and/or retired. Even recent also rans like Portland and Philadelphia fell from being contenders to rebuilding teams after their best seasons. Other than Indiana, I can't think of a veteran team that went from title contender and back to solid playoff team without stumbling to the league's basement in between.
The Kings had a veteran team which had TWO decent shots at bringing home a title. One crashed to the ground along with Webber against the Mavs and the other was choked away against the Lakers.
So what did you want? Was there a Webber for Kobe deal I wasn't aware of? Instead of Mobley, should the team have hung on to Christie until his body failed on their watch? Or matched LA's offer for Vlade so he could miss half the season on the King's dime?
Of the Kings starters from those teams, one is still here, one was traded for Artest, one is hobbling around in Philly and two are retired, so I don't see your point. The natural arc of that team has been fufilled. It was assembled, grew together, became a contender and then its players aged and fell from glory.
I find it hard to be angry about the current state of this franchise. Yes, this team appears to be mired in mediocrity, but I see that as a byproduct of challenging for an NBA title. If anything, I'm mad that the coaches and players of those teams didn't get the job done. Then the mediocrity the Kings are currently in would be more tolerable.
Other than Indiana, I can't think of a veteran team that went from title contender and back to solid playoff team without stumbling to the league's basement in between.
Your other classic examples would be the blazers and Jazz of the 90's of course.
So what did you want? Was there a Webber for Kobe deal I wasn't aware of? Instead of Mobley, should the team have hung on to Christie until his body failed on their watch? Or matched LA's offer for Vlade so he could miss half the season on the King's dime?
No the B.S. would be your wanting to ignore the clear evidence plastered all over that one to glorify Geoff. he had openly scoffed at such a deal, ignored it for the longest time, and we had the Maloofs pulling ESPN specials on ti without a Petrie in sight. But I guess myth-building and hero-worship come a little easier when one jsut ignores the facts.
Hardly, youo are missing half the point. Was Webb for garbage a good deal? Hardly. It was trash and is actually listed as Geoff's worst over on his bio at...hoopshype? One of those places. Anyway...Doug for Cat was a good move. Well, not a good one precisely, but a good save. The theory behind it (I'm now a wannabe Suns GM) sucked, but it was old for young, and pretty talented young. Ditto for Bobby for Bonzi. Solid saves...yay!
Of course the problem being we didn't save jack because we ended up watching both guys just walk for nothing within a year. Give Geoff all the credit you want for the initial moves -- they were solid. But he was still the GM when those guys got away.
And so, one more time, the fact is that Vlade, Webb, Doug and Bobby brought us back nada. People can squirm, jump up and down, complain, whatever. But in the end, those are the facts. And BECAUSE we have nothing but Kenny Thomas to show for all those guys, it has put too much strain on our draft picks and FAs to make up for all that lost production.
It's fine for you to speculate on what happened, but it's evolved into this ironclad "fact" that you endlessly repeat. Convenient that it fits into your narrative of blaming Petrie for all bad and not giving him credit for good.
You can't blame Petrie for not knowing what the futur holds.
After playing in the NBA Finals twice in three years, the Portland Trailblazers would continue to make the playoffs for another eleven years. Seattle continued to make the playoffs after their last trip to the Finals in '96. Utah continued to make the playoffs after their last trip to the Finals in '98. New Jersey has continued to make the playoffs after their last trip to the Finals in '03.Other than Indiana, I can't think of a veteran team that went from title contender and back to solid playoff team without stumbling to the league's basement in between.
You know, this is getting very tiresome.
Your worship of the man borders on pathetic. 1001 excuses. He always knows best. Yadda yadda.
And because of that we are never going to see eye to eye on this. You continue to twist things so your autographed pair of used Geoff underoos goes up in value, I continue to twist them because obviously Geoff axe murdered my family.
apparently hes not according to all the expert gms we have on this board![]()
I know your sad little dream is that Petrie will be fired and you will be named general manager and thus it doesn't behoove you to give any credit to the man who has the job you're angling for.
Artest is one of the successes.
You continue to twist things so your autographed pair of used Geoff underoos goes up in value, I continue to twist them because obviously Geoff axe murdered my family.
After playing in the NBA Finals twice in three years, the Portland Trailblazers would continue to make the playoffs for another eleven years. Seattle continued to make the playoffs after their last trip to the Finals in '96. Utah continued to make the playoffs after their last trip to the Finals in '98. New Jersey has continued to make the playoffs after their last trip to the Finals in '03.
Even your example of the recent Trailblazers is thin, since they made the playoffs for three more years after the last season that they were truly a title contender (1999-2000).
Um...yes you can. That is precisely the art of being a GM. One step ahead. Who will develop, who not? How will it all fit together? Will this guy resign? If not what can we get?
That's the whole game. Risk and talent assessment. And when you miss, the buck stops on your desk (lone exception being a freak injury to a current player, which cannot be planned for -- injury prone or not, Webb's knee for instance was out of Geoff's control and messed up everything).
Only on this message board do you become a "jocker" or a "bootlicker" when you appreciate that the Kings have one of the best GMs in all of basketball.
Is Dumars a bad GM for getting nothing in return of Big Ben?
Is Colangelo a bad GM for getting nothing in return of Mike James?
Is Donnie Walsh a bad GM for not re-signing Peja?
What about Jerry West about Bobby Jackson?
the list goes on and on. Lots of players make it look like they will re-sign with their current team and then just bolt to the higest bidder. I think it's greatly unfair to that GM to make him accountable for things that are out of his control, and that are totally the player's fault. Only way this can be avoided is by trading each and every one of your expiring contracts. Even if you would like to keep the player. But no, there's no way we can afford to take the risk of potentially losing him in FA... so we obviously gotta trade every one of em, even the ones we wanna keep.