GAME THREAD: California Classic Day 3: Sacramento Kings v. Miami Heat, July 5th, 2PM PST
- Thread starter Tetsujin
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yeah he's limited offensively. he made an ATROCIOUS college choice going to UNLV... His value deteriorated, and in my opinion stunted his growth a bit... Would've been much better off showcasing at Syracuse in the zone.
His upside is real tho. He's a tremendous pound-for-pound athlete and easily elite in many aspects like explosion and quickness.
His upside is real tho. He's a tremendous pound-for-pound athlete and easily elite in many aspects like explosion and quickness.
I'm not going to overeact to SL and I realize that Bagley just turned 19 --- but you usually see a #2 overall pick with his kind of talent find a way to look impressive. It is alarming that he's not been able to make any kind of impact the past 2 games.
One thing I've noticed is his dominant left hand is getting exposed. Teams are playing him to come back to his left hand and he's been blocked several times because of it. He just has to use his right hand. I honestly can't believe a player of his talent and stature is so far behind in that regard.
All in all I'm concerned (not worried) and hope Bagley starts showing signs why he was a better risk than the Euro player we're not supposed to mention anymore.
One thing I've noticed is his dominant left hand is getting exposed. Teams are playing him to come back to his left hand and he's been blocked several times because of it. He just has to use his right hand. I honestly can't believe a player of his talent and stature is so far behind in that regard.
All in all I'm concerned (not worried) and hope Bagley starts showing signs why he was a better risk than the Euro player we're not supposed to mention anymore.
Giles has been ok considering the long layoff from injuries, but I still have expected to see more from such an ultra talented player and also based upon all the hype we've been hearing for the past year. Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting him to score 30 every game ... but I am expecting his athleticism and skill to standout more.
One thing I've noticed is that he is pretty much playing below the rim. He's had chances to explode for dunks but just lays it up instead. I don't know if that's due to lack of confidence or if the explosion just isn't there.
One thing I've noticed is that he is pretty much playing below the rim. He's had chances to explode for dunks but just lays it up instead. I don't know if that's due to lack of confidence or if the explosion just isn't there.
One last comment --- can the Justin Jackson naysayers come out of the cave and at least admit that he's showing some signs of improvement?
I get that the naysayers still don't like him and can say he's soft or whatever --- but if he put up a stat line like Bagley did today he'd be getting torched in this thread. But instead he was the Kings best player the past 2 games and little credit is being given.
I get that the naysayers still don't like him and can say he's soft or whatever --- but if he put up a stat line like Bagley did today he'd be getting torched in this thread. But instead he was the Kings best player the past 2 games and little credit is being given.
He's been an absolute MONSTER on the defensive end. On offense, he's still extremely raw (you need to remember that he missed two years of high school basketball and essentially punted his college year so he's played far less basketball than any of his peers) but you see flashes. There are probably better ways to measure a dude's athleticism than number of explosive dunks.
He's looked fairly good on the defensive side, I agree.
I know all this, which is why I prefaced the way I did. Despite all the things you re-affirmed, I still expected to see more flashes -- as you put it.
I suppose my expectations are out of whack and high, but I still expected more.
But at least Harry Giles has the injuries and long layoff to consider -- what's Bagley's excuse? I get that he's only 19. But a #2 pick that's not a full on project simply has to produce and show more.
I know all this, which is why I prefaced the way I did. Despite all the things you re-affirmed, I still expected to see more flashes -- as you put it.
I suppose my expectations are out of whack and high, but I still expected more.
But at least Harry Giles has the injuries and long layoff to consider -- what's Bagley's excuse? I get that he's only 19. But a #2 pick that's not a full on project simply has to produce and show more.
Giles is extremely raw on both sides of the court (more so on the offensive end) but he shows flashes all game long of his abilities.
He dunked plenty at Duke with half the athleticism so I don't think it's a concern. He just hasn't had much of a chance so far and it's not surprising at all if he never again regains the athleticism he had in his HS tape. He's athletic enough to be able to play in the NBA right now even with the drop from where he used to be. He makes a ton of mistakes but he also makes a lot of good plays. That's all you can ask for out of your young player that hasn't played much basketball in 2 years. The only thing that currently concerns me is his hands don't look good. Fumbles a lot of passes and gets the ball dislodged frequently. Hopefully that's not something that will carry with him.
Kudos to JJ. He missed his first couple and I was thinking oh boy this is where he gets in a funk and just misses everything but he knocked down a few and wound up making a bunch more after that. Basically had half the teams points at halftime and was the only player who could score consistently.
Bagley's concerns are obvious but Frank Mason really disappointed me. He should be one of the best players on the court at this level and he looked like garbage. Still passing up wide open threes and still late making his own passes. Then at one point Giles has the ball at the high post and Frank cuts toward the basket and Giles passes it to him but it winds up a turnover because he never even looked for the ball. What the hell is the point in cutting if you don't look for the ball? That's like elementary level stuff.
He dunked plenty at Duke with half the athleticism so I don't think it's a concern. He just hasn't had much of a chance so far and it's not surprising at all if he never again regains the athleticism he had in his HS tape. He's athletic enough to be able to play in the NBA right now even with the drop from where he used to be. He makes a ton of mistakes but he also makes a lot of good plays. That's all you can ask for out of your young player that hasn't played much basketball in 2 years. The only thing that currently concerns me is his hands don't look good. Fumbles a lot of passes and gets the ball dislodged frequently. Hopefully that's not something that will carry with him.
Kudos to JJ. He missed his first couple and I was thinking oh boy this is where he gets in a funk and just misses everything but he knocked down a few and wound up making a bunch more after that. Basically had half the teams points at halftime and was the only player who could score consistently.
Bagley's concerns are obvious but Frank Mason really disappointed me. He should be one of the best players on the court at this level and he looked like garbage. Still passing up wide open threes and still late making his own passes. Then at one point Giles has the ball at the high post and Frank cuts toward the basket and Giles passes it to him but it winds up a turnover because he never even looked for the ball. What the hell is the point in cutting if you don't look for the ball? That's like elementary level stuff.
I'd love to comment on the game but unfortunately life intervened and I was unable to watch. I thought I had the DVR set but ...
Anyway, can someone give me an objective assessment of Giles, Bagley, Mason, Jackson and Miles? Nothing too detailed just a Reader's Digest version of how they looked? I'd be ever so grateful.
Anyway, can someone give me an objective assessment of Giles, Bagley, Mason, Jackson and Miles? Nothing too detailed just a Reader's Digest version of how they looked? I'd be ever so grateful.
It's available thru replay on ESPN3 if you still want to catch it. http://www.espn.com/watch/schedule/?type=replay
Giles was active and engaged. Had some blunders and some very nice moments. One hiccup where he was kinda caught in no-mans land on defense and ended up going for a weak contest on a 3pt shooter, which resulted in a 4-point play, a rookie mistake for sure, no biggie.
I always watch for bigs ability to drop low real quick on defense and Giles had an excellent moment like this in the game, poked the ball free with 2 on the shotclock to end a possession
Bagley looked pretty good in spots defensively, they have him playing outside of his comfort zone for sure, or are experimenting with it. He was a bit overwhelmed and probably started to press a bit. Poor showing but the guard play for the kings was awful. the first half was wrought with turnovers and the flow of the game turned into a scrimmage pace.
Jackson was great he looked like the most polished confident offensive player on the floor easily.
Daxter Miles had his moments for sure, there were too many turnovers but the team performed much better with him on the court than Frank Mason in this game tbh. He's scrappy.
Giles was active and engaged. Had some blunders and some very nice moments. One hiccup where he was kinda caught in no-mans land on defense and ended up going for a weak contest on a 3pt shooter, which resulted in a 4-point play, a rookie mistake for sure, no biggie.
I always watch for bigs ability to drop low real quick on defense and Giles had an excellent moment like this in the game, poked the ball free with 2 on the shotclock to end a possession
Bagley looked pretty good in spots defensively, they have him playing outside of his comfort zone for sure, or are experimenting with it. He was a bit overwhelmed and probably started to press a bit. Poor showing but the guard play for the kings was awful. the first half was wrought with turnovers and the flow of the game turned into a scrimmage pace.
Jackson was great he looked like the most polished confident offensive player on the floor easily.
Daxter Miles had his moments for sure, there were too many turnovers but the team performed much better with him on the court than Frank Mason in this game tbh. He's scrappy.
Yeah well to be frank; Fox is vastly overqualified for what they need in this type of setting... The Kings are smart to shut him down, this team goes as far as he can take them, no reason to risk injury, it'd be an exercise in futility to have Fox beat this competition down...
Giles and Bagley just need acceptable PG play and thats not been the case the past 2 L's..... far from it tbh..... and to be fair players like Daxter Miles and Al Freeman are FAR from Pure PG's, infact their undersized SG's in the early stages of trying to convert over........ I hate to say it but if those players were 6'5" with 6'8" wingspan,no one would think about putting them at PG, but alas their 6'3 in-shoes......
Mason is fast with a stop watch, but game speed he can't hold a candle next to fox, most can't. His height makes him much easier to recover against. He was bad, this game in particular it was almost like watching when Duke's PG, Trevon Duval played poorly and Bagley looked kinda off as a result.
Giles and Bagley just need acceptable PG play and thats not been the case the past 2 L's..... far from it tbh..... and to be fair players like Daxter Miles and Al Freeman are FAR from Pure PG's, infact their undersized SG's in the early stages of trying to convert over........ I hate to say it but if those players were 6'5" with 6'8" wingspan,no one would think about putting them at PG, but alas their 6'3 in-shoes......
Mason is fast with a stop watch, but game speed he can't hold a candle next to fox, most can't. His height makes him much easier to recover against. He was bad, this game in particular it was almost like watching when Duke's PG, Trevon Duval played poorly and Bagley looked kinda off as a result.
Rookies are rookies, I expect them to be all over the place in their performance. Feel like we can critique JJ and Mason more with what we know since they played last year.
Encouraging by JJ....hope it continues into the season. Would be a huge positive jump for the team.
Was meh on Frank. Id like to see him play better in Vegas.
Nigel Hayes....don’t really see it offensively
Encouraging by JJ....hope it continues into the season. Would be a huge positive jump for the team.
Was meh on Frank. Id like to see him play better in Vegas.
Nigel Hayes....don’t really see it offensively
Mason just kills me. I've followed him all thru his Kansas career and I just cringe when he makes things more difficult than they need to be, which IMO happens all too often. I just can't help but think this type of mighty-mouse hero ball play isn't what this young team needs..... they need a steady hand.... **sigh**... here's to hoping I'm wrong 
Mason just kills me. I've followed him all thru his Kansas career and I just cringe when he makes things more difficult than they need to be, which IMO happens all too often. I just can't help but think this type of mighty-mouse hero ball play isn't what this young team needs..... they need a steady hand.... **sigh**... here's to hoping I'm wrong
No, we admit no such thing. The Kings augmented his weaknesses in the past two games, not his strengths. It's like the Suns giving Ayton the ball on the wing on the fast break and then wondering why he's not doing well. I don't think he would prosper in those situations. In the case of Bagley, if the Kings wanted to sabotage his game they couldn't have done a better job if they planned it. Surround him with incompetent guard play that doesn't get him the ball on the break or swing the ball side to side in the half court, slowing the game down in situations so that they can dribble, dribble dribble the ball up the floor in a set up offense. If you have a guy built for running and space and you don't run, guess what, he's not going to perform very well. In a couple of years, with improved strength, Bagley is going to be able to have great games despite stupid guard play and even in slow down games, but as a 19 year old rookie that just ain't happening and the expectation that it should happen is totally unrealistic.
The purpose of summer league, though, is to assess players and determine their strengths and weaknesses, no? I'd much rather somebody show those warts in summer league so they can be addressed and corrected. This wasn't even REAL summer league. It was 3 games squeezed in before Vegas right after players had signed.
If Bagley had tore it up all three games and people were excited, there would invariably be those who made the "don't get excited, it's only summer league" comments. All the hype around him pretty sealed the deal that he wasn't going to please everybody no matter what he did or didn't do.
I expect him to get progressively better and to learn from his mistakes.
If Bagley had tore it up all three games and people were excited, there would invariably be those who made the "don't get excited, it's only summer league" comments. All the hype around him pretty sealed the deal that he wasn't going to please everybody no matter what he did or didn't do.
I expect him to get progressively better and to learn from his mistakes.