Kingsfan23
All-Star
Giles is a center, despite height. Skal/Bagley can play some there
Future of Willie Cauley-Stein?
- Thread starter sergmatt
- Start date
Giles is a center, despite height. Skal/Bagley can play some there
The Effort Police
Starter
You eventually have to pay these guys though. Fox, Giles, Bagley, whoever are eventually going to hit free agency. You have to tie up money, but they've been giving out short term contracts that come off the books quickly.
Even more important than the amount is the number of years. A big deal for four or five years is a noose hanging around this franchise's neck when it comes to retain your actual core. WCS I don't consider part of a core to build around because WCS is the type of player that loser franchises keep around as part of their core.
kingsfan101
Starter
Valid point, and yes, I had considered it. The good thing is that lot of these guys have to be paid in different years. Bogdan, Buddy, and Skal in 20, Fox, JJ, and Giles in 21, and Bagley in 22.
I do agree that if we keep WCS, we are likely to offer him a longer contract than other FAs. With our huge buffer, and the different stages when we need to pay these guys, we'll likely not have any issues. I don't know how feasible or smart it is, but we could also potentially front load Willie's contract. This will make more space available when we need to pay others, and also make him a more attractive trade bait later, if we want to trade him.
My limited point is that we shouldn't be trading Willie to get rid of him. I think he'll end up having a decent to a good career, and if we trade/lose him for nothing, we'll regret it later. The trade has to bring some value (solid value. Not some low draft pick, who will most likely warm the bench most of his years with us) to the team, beyond opening up playing time for the kids.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Sounds like Vivek is handling it for him at the moment. Haha.
jcassio
Starter
I don't think I get it. Did Vivek put his foot in his mouth again? Or are you just joking that Willie get's his media savvy personality from Vivek? Or ??
Still not answering the question of his stats AFTER this one contract season.
James Ham clarified on his podcast what Willie meant by his comment about getting that money. Ham said the quotes overwhelmed the context of the conversation. This happens a lot to Willie because he is not careful about sharing what he is thinking. Willie meant that this offseason he really concentrated on the work and on-court play that get players paid in the NBA - and started to take steps to achieve that level of success. Basically, it is like saying I watched the best players and started taking things from their preparation and game. But Willie is not a cliche machine and the internet loves to hate.
King Baller
All-Star
Willie should hire a professional publicist to coach him on what to say and more importantly what not to say. Heck his agent should have arranged this already. There is a multimillion dollar deal riding on what he says and then his performance DURING GAMES.
I like the way Willie represents himself - guys staying on brand all the time are BORING. But yes - performance is what it is all about. We shall see if he can back up the talk. I hope he does.
Sac.Kings
All-Star
I'm fine with keeping Willie if Z-bo and KK leave. Gotta have a good big man on the bench. I'm not worried about what we offer him as we have offered mostly very good financial deals in the past couple of years to free agents. However, if a fantastic deal comes around and Willie is included, I'd be ok with that too.
I also take no issue with Willie saying he wants money. I work for money too and even though I absolutely love my job, I'm not going to work without getting paid a fair value. And neither would anyone else on this forum and you know it. People need to get real, Willie isn't going to be in the NBA for 30 plus years. He's got a narrow window in his lifetime to accumulate as much money as possible and then live the rest of his life doing things that pay him a whole lot less. Of course he's going to want to cash in as much as possible, that is reality folks. He's not LeBron or Kobe, he doesn't have endorsements left and right.
I also take no issue with Willie saying he wants money. I work for money too and even though I absolutely love my job, I'm not going to work without getting paid a fair value. And neither would anyone else on this forum and you know it. People need to get real, Willie isn't going to be in the NBA for 30 plus years. He's got a narrow window in his lifetime to accumulate as much money as possible and then live the rest of his life doing things that pay him a whole lot less. Of course he's going to want to cash in as much as possible, that is reality folks. He's not LeBron or Kobe, he doesn't have endorsements left and right.
jcassio
Starter
Do the Kings have a media/PR expert who works with the players on what to say and how to say it? Because "just being honest" is bad technique when people are looking for anything to use against you. If we have such a person, they have some work to do with Willie. If we don't have such a person, we should. They could work one on one (as needed) with players and provide workshops such as "avoiding cliches." It is true that the players are making enough money to hire their own experts, but I doubt most of them will do that - unless they find themselves in the middle of a PR disaster. Then it's about damage control.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Yeah, the Kings have PR people, but the bottom line is, its a free country and you can't be with every player every minute. Believe me they would have loved to control Cousins words at times. All they can do is advise, or if the player wants it, do their best to protect him from press exposure. However league rules say the players have to be available to the media, so that protection would be somewhat limited. Willie is who he is, and I think some of what he says has to be taken with a grain of salt.
I will say this though, he's an interesting character. Most of us don't blurt out whatever is floating across the frontal lobe of our brain. Willie does, and I find it entertaining at times, and also disturbing at times. Once again, all I care about is the results, which hopefully soon, we'll be able to talk about instead of speculate about.
Except one of the first things you learn about being professional is not to talk about your salary unless you are discussing employment or a raise with your supervisor (in private). It's bad form and unprofessional.
Sac.Kings
All-Star
While I agree with you for the most part, the NBA seems to operate on different terms. We have seen the power of agents and even players publicly declaring that they want more money or trades to a different team and by and large it's been worryingly successful. See Jimmy Butler for the most recent example, who will most certainly be traded.
Public comments seem to carry a lot of weight for professional athletes even in different sports. I'm not surprised he's said it publicly, but there is always the chance it backfires too ... You basically tell the whole world you want more money and are ready to get paid, well you better be able to deliver. If not, you look like a fool and are at the mercy of others when it comes to negotiations.
On a different note, the ability for players and their agents to handicap an entire organization worries me. Let's say Fox becomes our star player and the engine that makes us go. He then demands a trade and says he won't play a single game for us and wants to be traded. The organization loses the ability to negotiate because all the world knows that player wants out. We lose our star player and don't get fair value in return. That's just wrong. I hope it's addressed in some way. A contract is a contract, it should be honored.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Agreed, but my point is that negotiating a trade or asking for the max contract based on what you have already done is different than the (what I consider) unprofessional comments by WCS. It's pretty crass to just come out and say I'm looking to get paid. We already know you are in a contract year. Of course you want a big paycheck. It's pretty unprofessional to come out and say it like he did.
I'm not "down" on WCS or anything. Just didn't think this comment was a good one for him to make.
parker
Bench
Willie says he wants to get paid. He knows he won't get paid without putting up numbers. Thus, my take is that when he makes the statement, "I want to get paid," he is saying I am going to put up numbers that get me paid. In the NBA, status is what you are being paid, what you can get. Now people seem to worry if that does happen (i.e., he has a good year and gets paid), then he will slack the rest of his career.
Willie has improved each year. If he somehow put up 20/10, I can't see him putting up 14/7 once he gets a big contract.
Willie has improved each year. If he somehow put up 20/10, I can't see him putting up 14/7 once he gets a big contract.
Sac.Kings
All-Star
On that we agree as well. He may have meant it a different way, but worded it quite poorly. Imagine being his teammate!
They used to have a couple of good guys who could help players. Unfortunately the evil queen got rid of them.
Sac.1989
Starter
https://www.slamonline.com/nba/rise-willie-cauley-stein-aint-messing-around/
On The Rise: Willie Cauley-Stein Ain’t Messing Around
On The Rise: Willie Cauley-Stein Ain’t Messing Around
Kingsfan23
All-Star
His defense hasn’t changed much from what I’ve seen, still watching stuff go over his head at the rim and being thrown around. If he’s going to play, needs to be stronger defensively
SacKings123
G-League
I'm feeling the same way and I hope he proves both of us wrong
bajaden
Hall of Famer
This is not to excuse Willie. He does make mistakes, and he's not alone in the dept. But one thing to pay attention to, is the times when Willie leaves his man to stop penetration, and no one rotates to his man. The end result looks like Willie lost his man, when in fact, none of it was his fault. Cousins used to get upset with JT for the very same reason. For the most part, they use Willie as the ball stopper, which can leave him exposed. Despite all the criticism, Willie had that best defensive rating on the team last season. However, the team as a whole was terrible, so that's nothing crow about.
Could Willie be better? You bet, but I don't think you throw away one of your better defenders when you don't have anyone on the team that's better. At least not yet proven to be better.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Let's see if he can stop from being crucified by Gobert tonight. He had four rebounds and nine points in 29 minutes the last time he played against Gobert. I want to see the guy make an impact on the floor against good teams, so you can actually see him make plays that turn the tide toward winning. All I've seen so far is an impactless "go with the flow" type of player who crumbles against good opposition. It's about time he made up his mind to play with force, to be a disruptor, and actually make a positive difference on the floor.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I thought this was good article. If for no other reason than it sort of clarified what Willie mean't about getting paid. I think to him, the getting paid part was like his trophy. It would be a confirmation of his hard work and attitude change. In other words, players that are the best in the NBA get paid. I think for Willie, it's more about that, than the money. I've seen this happen to a lot of players. There's a point in their careers where the light goes on, and they take it up another notch. I have high hopes that it's finally happened for Willie.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Don't disagree! It should be a good early challenge for Willie. Gobert is a very tough match up, but Willie should have an athletic advantage, while giving away some size advantage. Lets see if he can utilize it.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
If Joerger wants to win against Utah, I don't even think he should match WCS against Gobert. WCS can't shoot outside well enough to get Gobert out of the paint where he dominates against the Kings. I'd try Giles at the 5 or even go small with Bjelica at the 5 to force Gobert outside. That said, Joerger probably goes with WCS against Gobert. We'll see what happens. It should give Joerger and us an idea if WCS against Gobert is ever going to work out in the Kings' favor.
Sac.1989
Starter
Agreed.
The biggest piece for me is after getting that trophy, does he rest on his laurels ? Because that to me is WCS in a nutshell.
Attitude shift to get his. Where has it been all this time when its been about the team ? It factual to state that the light bulb moment has coincided with his contract status.
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