Front office disconnect

#1
We have stuff scattered all over this forum right now over the last few days. But I think we should have listed the things that the front office obviously has disconnect with, specifically the fans, but each other as well.

I will update the OP with bulleted points as people bring them up, but just a couple that I can think of from recent:

1. PDA thinks that firing a head coach (Malone) won't impact STH sales
2. Were conflicted on letting Jimmer go because of the fans (paraphrased)
3. Think that the fans are pining for the 2001-2002 Kings team to walk through that door, when we really just want a winning product


I'll leave it there for now, and let you guys put your down and I'll will keep adding to this list.
 
#3
In terms of front office disconnect with each other, there have been a number of rumblings/hints about PDA wanting Karl but Vivek wanting Mullin (who some speculate has a beef with Karl dating from their days together at Golden State). Makes me wonder if PDA pulled the trigger on Malone in December thinking he could get Karl on board and knowing Mullin wouldn't want to start mid-season. Meanwhile, Vivek balks at paying Karl's asking price. Anyways, just a theory.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Staff member
#4
In terms of front office disconnect with each other, there have been a number of rumblings/hints about PDA wanting Karl but Vivek wanting Mullin (who some speculate has a beef with Karl dating from their days together at Golden State). Makes me wonder if PDA pulled the trigger on Malone in December thinking he could get Karl on board and knowing Mullin wouldn't want to start mid-season. Meanwhile, Vivek balks at paying Karl's asking price. Anyways, just a theory.
That was a fair early read on things. Then of course reports came out it was PDA himself holding up the new coach search, which could best be translated as looking out exclusively for his own ass because he knew the wrong hire would finish him.
 
#7
PDA is not very smart if he thinks STH aren't re-upping "because we fired the coach".
Speaking for myself, its the guy talking down to me thats really got me ticked off.
Also what I took from yesterday? He thinks we're morons.

I WANT TO SEE COMPETENCE FROM OUR FO. And I want us to be treated like the knowledgeable fan base that we are.
 
#9
"1. PDA thinks that firing a head coach (Malone) won't impact STH sales"

Where does this statement come from?
The presser from yesterday morning.
I'm the one that reported this from the interview so I want to be very careful and clear about it.

This was AFTER the broadcast when the tape wasn't rolling and D'Alessandro took the time to answer additional questions from the audience there, something he didn't have to do. He was speaking more frankly and his comment wasn't that firing Malone wouldn't impact STH sales, it was that it SHOULDN'T. His exact response when asked if STH were justified in not renewing and his exact words were, "Because we fired a coach? Come on."

What he meant, and what he went on to explain was that hardcore Kings fans should stay for the ride and that they were going to build a winning team in Sacramento so nobody should be dumping their season tickets. He was also somewhat playing to a room of dedicated Kings fans with a sort of "real fans wouldn't pack it in over this" type thing.

What I took away from it was that (1) he doesn't think firing Malone is nearly as big a deal as a lot of fans do which wasn't a surprise given that he's the guy that fired him and (2) he's very confident in his ability to build a winner. I didn't sense false bravado - I think he truly believes it. Whether we as fans want to believe it depends on how you view D'Alessandro I suppose.
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
#10
I'm the one that reported this from the interview so I want to be very careful and clear about it.

This was AFTER the broadcast when the tape wasn't rolling and D'Alessandro took the time to answer additional questions from the audience there, something he didn't have to do. He was speaking more frankly and his comment wasn't that firing Malone wouldn't impact STH sales, it was that it SHOULDN'T. His exact response when asked if STH were justified in not renewing and his exact words were, "Because we fired a coach? Come on."

What he meant, and what he went on to explain was that hardcore Kings fans should stay for the ride and that they were going to build a winning team in Sacramento so nobody should be dumping their season tickets. He was also somewhat playing to a room of dedicated Kings fans with a sort of "real fans wouldn't pack it in over this" type thing.
As another tidbit, he also did say that he recognized that by firing Malone he had made Chris Granger's job harder - Granger oversees season ticket sales. So, like Funky said, this was a "shouldn't, not wouldn't" statement.
 
#11
I'm the one that reported this from the interview so I want to be very careful and clear about it.

This was AFTER the broadcast when the tape wasn't rolling and D'Alessandro took the time to answer additional questions from the audience there, something he didn't have to do. He was speaking more frankly and his comment wasn't that firing Malone wouldn't impact STH sales, it was that it SHOULDN'T. His exact response when asked if STH were justified in not renewing and his exact words were, "Because we fired a coach? Come on."

What he meant, and what he went on to explain was that hardcore Kings fans should stay for the ride and that they were going to build a winning team in Sacramento so nobody should be dumping their season tickets. He was also somewhat playing to a room of dedicated Kings fans with a sort of "real fans wouldn't pack it in over this" type thing.

What I took away from it was that (1) he doesn't think firing Malone is nearly as big a deal as a lot of fans do which wasn't a surprise given that he's the guy that fired him and (2) he's very confident in his ability to build a winner. I didn't sense false bravado - I think he truly believes it. Whether we as fans want to believe it depends on how you view D'Alessandro I suppose.
First, thanks for going to the interview and second (see bolded) is completely fine with me, my only gripe with it is that he thinks he already has a good to great team, which he doesn't. We don't have a coach (Corbin doesn't count, if he did he would have been offered a multi-year deal) which means we don't have a system, which also means we can't practice that system. There is much more to building a team than having good to great players. San Antonio always picks up players you barely ever hear of, and they flourish. The system is the star, and I think that is more important than having a great player. You want to stay competitive longer? Have a great system.
 
#12
I'm the one that reported this from the interview so I want to be very careful and clear about it.

This was AFTER the broadcast when the tape wasn't rolling and D'Alessandro took the time to answer additional questions from the audience there, something he didn't have to do. He was speaking more frankly and his comment wasn't that firing Malone wouldn't impact STH sales, it was that it SHOULDN'T. His exact response when asked if STH were justified in not renewing and his exact words were, "Because we fired a coach? Come on."

What he meant, and what he went on to explain was that hardcore Kings fans should stay for the ride and that they were going to build a winning team in Sacramento so nobody should be dumping their season tickets. He was also somewhat playing to a room of dedicated Kings fans with a sort of "real fans wouldn't pack it in over this" type thing.

What I took away from it was that (1) he doesn't think firing Malone is nearly as big a deal as a lot of fans do which wasn't a surprise given that he's the guy that fired him and (2) he's very confident in his ability to build a winner. I didn't sense false bravado - I think he truly believes it. Whether we as fans want to believe it depends on how you view D'Alessandro I suppose.
Thanks for clarifying Funky. I couldn't recall who originally reported that.
 
#13
Every GM believes they can build a winner. Even David Kahn, who believed Darko was Vlade reincarnated, believed he was building a winner. How's that working out up there?

Whether every GM can build a winner is another thing altogether.

Many a GM has been fired "right before he was gonna build a winner." "We were ready to turn a corner", etc.
PDA's leash is short with most fans, and others wanted him gone yesterday. He'll really have to put up or shut up quickly, since he's lost much of our goodwill. I wonder how patient Vivek will be, considering his public feelings about quickly turning the team around.

Considering the likely progression of .500 ball this year (given what we saw with Malone), then fighting for a playoff spot next year, season ticket sales would have been in hot demand for the new arena. Now, they have to somehow skip a step (as this season is likely lost) in order to get where they need to be prior to opening the new arena.

If they were truly thinking about building a winner for the new arena, a patient approach would have been the way to go. Now, they need to hurry up, and it's up to PDA to make that omelet, now that he's scrambled the eggs.
 
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#14
I'm the one that reported this from the interview so I want to be very careful and clear about it.

This was AFTER the broadcast when the tape wasn't rolling and D'Alessandro took the time to answer additional questions from the audience there, something he didn't have to do. He was speaking more frankly and his comment wasn't that firing Malone wouldn't impact STH sales, it was that it SHOULDN'T. His exact response when asked if STH were justified in not renewing and his exact words were, "Because we fired a coach? Come on."

What he meant, and what he went on to explain was that hardcore Kings fans should stay for the ride and that they were going to build a winning team in Sacramento so nobody should be dumping their season tickets. He was also somewhat playing to a room of dedicated Kings fans with a sort of "real fans wouldn't pack it in over this" type thing.

What I took away from it was that (1) he doesn't think firing Malone is nearly as big a deal as a lot of fans do which wasn't a surprise given that he's the guy that fired him and (2) he's very confident in his ability to build a winner. I didn't sense false bravado - I think he truly believes it. Whether we as fans want to believe it depends on how you view D'Alessandro I suppose.
Thanks for the clarification.

For myself, I don't like the mentality of the faithful consumer. What's the point of an economic market if consumers aren't willing to say no?
 
#16
Here's the thing about season tickets (in my personal point of view but I don't think I'm alone):

It makes sense to buy season tickets if they are pretty liquid. I actually went to 44 games once during the heyday (upper level tix), but generally you don't really want to go to 44 games. You want to have consistent good seats and the right to buy playoff tickets. It is important to be able to sell the rest for at least face value and/or recruit 1-3 partners to split up the cost.

When the team is good, it is awesome to be a season ticket holder.

When the team sucks, it is like lighting money on fire. Seriously.

I feel like PDA picked my own pocket when he fired Mike Malone... that's why I've been so virulently on his ass over it. It hurt me. Not just emotionally as a fan (it did - I loved Mike), but right in the freaking wallet.

What Chris Granger and Phil Horn have to overcome is this:

Why should I pay $10K+ up front - full face value PLUS FORCED PRESEASON GAMES - when you are going to be doing "two for one" sales all year - and giving away $2 tickets and special ticket packages and all kinds of gimmicks like that. Why should I pay $10K + up front instead of cherry picking a few games and buying them under face value from the sucker season ticket holders who are trying to compete with your mid-season promotions and therefore taking a bath?

Like I said a few days ago, I will probably hold my nose and re-up. That's because my seats are exceptional and I can suffer $1K or so loss if need be... one more year. But why is anybody going to pre-pay for a years worth of typical seats where resale is going to be impossible? Seriously... why???
 
#17
The FO thinks that building an arena gives them a pass on basketball decisions. We known you're building an arena and we're most grateful that our team stayed. We also know it's not charity work and you wouldn't do it if it didn't pencil out for you.

$700 mil Comcast contract and a $2 billion sale of the Clippers. You guys are good. You should be thanking US for fighting to keep the Kings here and keeping the door open for you to swoop in and keep it from Hansen/Ballmer. This doesn't mean I'm not appreciative. Just be careful using that as your go to card for all situations.
 
#18
PDA is an idiot. How many players on the team played in that summer league? Its not like when half the roster were young guys trying to find them

While I disagree with the approach, if this team was built to run and gun I would be willing to see it.
But our 2 best players thrived with grinding d. Backcourt was breaking out. Even JT bought in and was part of an elite starting 5 (by point differential).
 
#19
Having been there myself, I believe PDA believes that we have a vastly better team than previously put together, but he knows there is work to be done. He was asked about that and he admitted so.

He seems committed to wanting to get this right. That being said, I get the sense that he finally understands that fans have reached their limit in the patience department.
 

CruzDude

Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
#20
PDA did not say what was THE PLAN for the Kings moving forward or if the FO even had one.

Corbin coaching summer league and winning that championship with an open style of play may have been Malone's undoing

Vivek may be under the illusion, that in Silicon Valley, the Disruptors are in fact the Innovators and he feels that translates to the NBA. It does not as most of us know.

The 5-1 and 9-6 start was a big false sense of accomplishment in fans eyes based on 8 years of really poor teams so when reality set in the Kings were just not as good as they or we thought and Cousins illness was the worst timing possible adding confusion to an already messy situation.
 
#22
Here's the thing about season tickets (in my personal point of view but I don't think I'm alone):

It makes sense to buy season tickets if they are pretty liquid. I actually went to 44 games once during the heyday (upper level tix), but generally you don't really want to go to 44 games. You want to have consistent good seats and the right to buy playoff tickets. It is important to be able to sell the rest for at least face value and/or recruit 1-3 partners to split up the cost.

When the team is good, it is awesome to be a season ticket holder.

When the team sucks, it is like lighting money on fire. Seriously.

I feel like PDA picked my own pocket when he fired Mike Malone... that's why I've been so virulently on his ass over it. It hurt me. Not just emotionally as a fan (it did - I loved Mike), but right in the freaking wallet.

What Chris Granger and Phil Horn have to overcome is this:

Why should I pay $10K+ up front - full face value PLUS FORCED PRESEASON GAMES - when you are going to be doing "two for one" sales all year - and giving away $2 tickets and special ticket packages and all kinds of gimmicks like that. Why should I pay $10K + up front instead of cherry picking a few games and buying them under face value from the sucker season ticket holders who are trying to compete with your mid-season promotions and therefore taking a bath?

Like I said a few days ago, I will probably hold my nose and re-up. That's because my seats are exceptional and I can suffer $1K or so loss if need be... one more year. But why is anybody going to pre-pay for a years worth of typical seats where resale is going to be impossible? Seriously... why???
I am 100% with you on this.
 
#23
Here's the thing about season tickets (in my personal point of view but I don't think I'm alone):

It makes sense to buy season tickets if they are pretty liquid. I actually went to 44 games once during the heyday (upper level tix), but generally you don't really want to go to 44 games. You want to have consistent good seats and the right to buy playoff tickets. It is important to be able to sell the rest for at least face value and/or recruit 1-3 partners to split up the cost.

When the team is good, it is awesome to be a season ticket holder.

When the team sucks, it is like lighting money on fire. Seriously.

I feel like PDA picked my own pocket when he fired Mike Malone... that's why I've been so virulently on his ass over it. It hurt me. Not just emotionally as a fan (it did - I loved Mike), but right in the freaking wallet.

What Chris Granger and Phil Horn have to overcome is this:

Why should I pay $10K+ up front - full face value PLUS FORCED PRESEASON GAMES - when you are going to be doing "two for one" sales all year - and giving away $2 tickets and special ticket packages and all kinds of gimmicks like that. Why should I pay $10K + up front instead of cherry picking a few games and buying them under face value from the sucker season ticket holders who are trying to compete with your mid-season promotions and therefore taking a bath?

Like I said a few days ago, I will probably hold my nose and re-up. That's because my seats are exceptional and I can suffer $1K or so loss if need be... one more year. But why is anybody going to pre-pay for a years worth of typical seats where resale is going to be impossible? Seriously... why???

this needs to be screenshotted and sent to all of the Kings higher ups. Just perfect
 
#24
I didn't sense false bravado - I think he truly believes it. Whether we as fans want to believe it depends on how you view D'Alessandro I suppose.
When your end result is the utter fail that he's done so far, the difference between false bravado and confidence in yourself is a matter of self awareness. It's even more unsettling this way.

To put it more succinctly, he doesn't even know how much he sucks.
 
#25
Here's the thing about season tickets (in my personal point of view but I don't think I'm alone):

It makes sense to buy season tickets if they are pretty liquid. I actually went to 44 games once during the heyday (upper level tix), but generally you don't really want to go to 44 games. You want to have consistent good seats and the right to buy playoff tickets. It is important to be able to sell the rest for at least face value and/or recruit 1-3 partners to split up the cost.

When the team is good, it is awesome to be a season ticket holder.

When the team sucks, it is like lighting money on fire. Seriously.

I feel like PDA picked my own pocket when he fired Mike Malone... that's why I've been so virulently on his ass over it. It hurt me. Not just emotionally as a fan (it did - I loved Mike), but right in the freaking wallet.

What Chris Granger and Phil Horn have to overcome is this:

Why should I pay $10K+ up front - full face value PLUS FORCED PRESEASON GAMES - when you are going to be doing "two for one" sales all year - and giving away $2 tickets and special ticket packages and all kinds of gimmicks like that. Why should I pay $10K + up front instead of cherry picking a few games and buying them under face value from the sucker season ticket holders who are trying to compete with your mid-season promotions and therefore taking a bath?

Like I said a few days ago, I will probably hold my nose and re-up. That's because my seats are exceptional and I can suffer $1K or so loss if need be... one more year. But why is anybody going to pre-pay for a years worth of typical seats where resale is going to be impossible? Seriously... why???
You nail this. I don't have Kings season tickets but I do have 4 tickets to my local MLS team. We also have a neophyte owner with a questionable GM. And while there is a huge wait list for season tickets, when we have a mediocre season or games scheduled during high heat mid day summer against a <.500 club, you can't unload these things.

MLS is only 20 games but there are occasions where you have to miss a game. I have a ticket for my son but after I got divorced I only get to bring him to about half the games.

And while the cost of entry is far lower than NBA, it still dings to have to eat a ticket or two for low interest games. Also there's an ethos in my community that we only sell for face value so if we eat a ticket, there's no recouping that cost.
 
#26
Having been there myself, I believe PDA believes that we have a vastly better team than previously put together, but he knows there is work to be done. He was asked about that and he admitted so.

He seems committed to wanting to get this right. That being said, I get the sense that he finally understands that fans have reached their limit in the patience department.
So what? That's his job, right? Why is the most basic premise of the man's job now being held up as his best selling point. "Well, you know, it sure seems like he wants to win some games. "

That's about the lowest vote of confidence I've ever seen. It's like something his mother would say. "You know, he's not TRYING to lose (i don't think so anyway). He's such a good boy."

This isn't kindergarten. We aren't grading on effort.
 
#27
You nail this. I don't have Kings season tickets but I do have 4 tickets to my local MLS team. We also have a neophyte owner with a questionable GM. And while there is a huge wait list for season tickets, when we have a mediocre season or games scheduled during high heat mid day summer against a <.500 club, you can't unload these things.

MLS is only 20 games but there are occasions where you have to miss a game. I have a ticket for my son but after I got divorced I only get to bring him to about half the games.

And while the cost of entry is far lower than NBA, it still dings to have to eat a ticket or two for low interest games. Also there's an ethos in my community that we only sell for face value so if we eat a ticket, there's no recouping that cost.
I purchased season tickets a couple of season back and only had them for one season specifically for the reason you brought up. It really stung to see the deals the Kings were offering throughout the season. My wife and I spent the whole season feeling duped because of the horrible product on the court and the ineptitude of the maloofs. Then to top it off we really could not even give away the games we could not go to. It takes a strong stomach to own season tickets to see a bumbling franchise.