Front office disconnect

#31
If I hear the word "patience" one more time I'm going to lose my mind.

As long as that word is thrown around by our front office, I'm going to assume there is a bad product on the floor and I will not spend a dime on this team. Arco or the new arena, I work too damn hard for my money to blow it on the world's longest rebuild.
 
#32
Here's the thing about season tickets (in my personal point of view but I don't think I'm alone):

It makes sense to buy season tickets if they are pretty liquid. I actually went to 44 games once during the heyday (upper level tix), but generally you don't really want to go to 44 games. You want to have consistent good seats and the right to buy playoff tickets. It is important to be able to sell the rest for at least face value and/or recruit 1-3 partners to split up the cost.

When the team is good, it is awesome to be a season ticket holder.

When the team sucks, it is like lighting money on fire. Seriously.

I feel like PDA picked my own pocket when he fired Mike Malone... that's why I've been so virulently on his ass over it. It hurt me. Not just emotionally as a fan (it did - I loved Mike), but right in the freaking wallet.

What Chris Granger and Phil Horn have to overcome is this:

Why should I pay $10K+ up front - full face value PLUS FORCED PRESEASON GAMES - when you are going to be doing "two for one" sales all year - and giving away $2 tickets and special ticket packages and all kinds of gimmicks like that. Why should I pay $10K + up front instead of cherry picking a few games and buying them under face value from the sucker season ticket holders who are trying to compete with your mid-season promotions and therefore taking a bath?

Like I said a few days ago, I will probably hold my nose and re-up. That's because my seats are exceptional and I can suffer $1K or so loss if need be... one more year. But why is anybody going to pre-pay for a years worth of typical seats where resale is going to be impossible? Seriously... why???
.

Great Post! While I am happy with my seats I feel the same way as you. Going to all the games is a challenge. It's nice to be able to sell them through the Kings website for at least face value. When they're winning and playing well or when good teams come to town you can sell them easily and even make money. When the team is doing poorly, few want to buy the ticket (like now). You are then faced with the choice of giving them away (lose money), go anyway and spend money on food, drink, or parking (lose money), or choose to not go at all and be unable to sell the tickets because of a poor product (lose money). The point being, some of us scrape up just enough to get those season tickets and it pisses me off that I am not getting what I expected by the ownership group. I was, until they replaced coach Malone with coach Corbin. The Gerbil needs to put a winning and exciting team back on the floor and I don't care how it's done. Just DO IT NOW
 
#33
If I hear the word "patience" one more time I'm going to lose my mind.

As long as that word is thrown around by our front office, I'm going to assume there is a bad product on the floor and I will not spend a dime on this team. Arco or the new arena, I work too damn hard for my money to blow it on the world's longest rebuild.
I am all for patience when the Kings have a clear direction going forward and chemistry. I will be praising at the altar of Patience.

But now? Patience in a mess like this? The FO needs to give a semblance of stability and loyalty before we can talk about patience. At least have a plan going forward to achieve that stability and loyalty...
 
#34
First, thanks for going to the interview and second (see bolded) is completely fine with me, my only gripe with it is that he thinks he already has a good to great team, which he doesn't. We don't have a coach (Corbin doesn't count, if he did he would have been offered a multi-year deal) which means we don't have a system, which also means we can't practice that system. There is much more to building a team than having good to great players. San Antonio always picks up players you barely ever hear of, and they flourish. The system is the star, and I think that is more important than having a great player. You want to stay competitive longer? Have a great system.
I understand what youre saying but it should alsobe noted that San Antonio has a great system in whic they pick up unknown players who suddenly flourish....around their main core of Duncan/Parker/Ginobli who have been playing together on the same team for around 15 years under the same coach. The system isnt necessarily the star. I would argue that the star component that makes SA great is the fact that their main core and their coach have been together for a decade and a half. To think that we can implement a supposedly successful system without possessing any of the aformentioned qualities is either delusional or it exposes a lack of understanding. I would have fired PDA for even suggesting that we fire Malone.
 
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VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#35
Having been there myself, I believe PDA believes that we have a vastly better team than previously put together, but he knows there is work to be done. He was asked about that and he admitted so.

He seems committed to wanting to get this right. That being said, I get the sense that he finally understands that fans have reached their limit in the patience department.
Care to elaborate?
 
#36
Those of us who went certainly didn't expect answers or blueprints, PDA believes he's vastly improved the team compared to the past, but he admits to needing to continue to work towards fixing.

He seems like a good guy, a guy you'd want to go and have a beer with and chew the fat, but like I said before and I could be reading him wrong, he seemed nervous.
 
#37
I am all for patience when the Kings have a clear direction going forward and chemistry. I will be praising at the altar of Patience.

But now? Patience in a mess like this? The FO needs to give a semblance of stability and loyalty before we can talk about patience. At least have a plan going forward to achieve that stability and loyalty...
indeed. speaking for myself alone, i was just fine being patient--to a degree. patience was always going to be a necessity when ownership of the team was finally wrested from the maloofs. it was always going to take two to three seasons for this team to get on its feet--at all levels--and start winning with regularity. vivek ranadive preached patience on day one. michael malone preached patience the moment he was hired. and pete d'allesandro did the same. what has me frustrated to the point of near apathy is the hypocrisy on display. patience was, indeed, the operative word when the new regime took over; it was their way of tempering expectations, and i honestly found it a reasonable stance to take...

though they had one legitimate superstar to work with, he's a rather volatile and mercurial individual, and the rest of the roster was an absolute mess of mismatched spare parts. so asking for a bit of patience from the fanbase seemed fair. i was willing to give them two years to start making noise, and a third year before making a playoff appearance--which i deem a necessity in 1) the grand game of keeping demarcus cousins in sacramento, and 2) the grand game of keeping the fans in the building. what i am not willing to allow for from a green regime preaching patience is their inability to be patient, their inability to give the core of the team some time to build chemistry with each other and with their head coach. the front office and majority owner committed the ultimate sin of impatience, firing mike malone just as he was making headway with a rather imperfect roster (a roster that pete d'allesandro has admitted still needs considerable work)...

then, after offering support of the front office's decision to fire his hand-picked, defensive-minded head coach, vivek ranadive spoke of the michael malone era as if it had accomplished its goals, as if the kings had grown into the team we all hoped they could become and only needed a new voice to inspire them over the hump and into the next "phase," as vivek likes to put it. it was an alarmingly shallow and out-of-touch evaluation, as well as a slap in the face to mike malone, whose work clearly wasn't finished. as a fan, i won't tolerate condescension. i have what i believe is a fair grasp of nba basketball, and i won't be patronized by a rookie regime who appear to be treating the kings that i've loved and supported all my life like some kind of high school chemistry experiment. patience?! you're on the clock, pete d'allesandro. i was willing to be patient, but because you (and mullin and vivek and whoever else) couldn't exercise patience of your own, you'll get little from me. and it seems to me that a great many other kings fans feel similarly. good luck...
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#38
indeed. speaking for myself alone, i was just fine being patient--to a degree. patience was always going to be a necessity when ownership of the team was finally wrested from the maloofs. it was always going to take two to three seasons for this team to get on its feet--at all levels--and start winning with regularity. vivek ranadive preached patience on day one. michael malone preached patience the moment he was hired. and pete d'allesandro did the same. what has me frustrated to the point of near apathy is the hypocrisy on display. patience was, indeed, the operative word when the new regime took over; it was their way of tempering expectations, and i honestly found it a reasonable stance to take...

though they had one legitimate superstar to work with, he's a rather volatile and mercurial individual, and the rest of the roster was an absolute mess of mismatched spare parts. so asking for a bit of patience from the fanbase seemed fair. i was willing to give them two years to start making noise, and a third year before making a playoff appearance--which i deem a necessity in 1) the grand game of keeping demarcus cousins in sacramento, and 2) the grand game of keeping the fans in the building. what i am not willing to allow for from a green regime preaching patience is their inability to be patient, their inability to give the core of the team some time to build chemistry with each other and with their head coach. the front office and majority owner committed the ultimate sin of impatience, firing mike malone just as he was making headway with a rather imperfect roster (a roster that pete d'allesandro has admitted still needs considerable work)...

then, after offering support of the front office's decision to fire his hand-picked, defensive-minded head coach, vivek ranadive spoke of the michael malone era as if it had accomplished its goals, as if the kings had grown into the team we all hoped they could become and only needed a new voice to inspire them over the hump and into the next "phase," as vivek likes to put it. it was an alarmingly shallow and out-of-touch evaluation, as well as a slap in the face to mike malone, whose work clearly wasn't finished. as a fan, i won't tolerate condescension. i have what i believe is a fair grasp of nba basketball, and i won't be patronized by a rookie regime who appear to be treating the kings that i've loved and supported all my life like some kind of high school chemistry experiment. patience?! you're on the clock, pete d'allesandro. i was willing to be patient, but because you (and mullin and vivek and whoever else) couldn't exercise patience of your own, you'll get little from me. and it seems to me that a great many other kings fans feel similarly. good luck...
I've preached patience from every hilltop. But now, I just don't know.

Most of you know me. I try and find the silver lining in anything. Right now, I'm afraid there is no silver lining, just more clouds...

The Kings are a part of my life I cannot imagine being without. Looking towards tonight's game, however, I'm not feeling anything close to optimism. In fact, if I had to put a label on my feelings it would have to be apathy. And that's the death knell for any relationship. Love or hate is okay. Not caring? Yeah, not good.

The front office has, as others have already said, disconnected with the fans and they're directly responsible for fans disconnecting with the team. I blame PDA for this and I will not be understanding or forgiving.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#39
From the get go there was disconnect....that was given with more and more twitter feeds coming out in that season Vivek came in with Pete and Mullin. Didn't think it would turn into an avalanche this quickly....I guess the typical life of a Kings fan.
 
#40
Care to elaborate?
BoB said he was one of the people that was invited by PDA & Co to be at the conference.

FO disconnects:
#1) Their belief that Sacramento fans want a return to an up-tempo style of play.
WRONG!
Hey, genius - go ask any group of Sac fans why they liked that team. They will mention many things, and uptempo style of play will not be one of the top reasons. Main reason will be BECAUSE THEY WON A LOT!
Kings fans NEED a winning franchise. After being so long an NBA embarrassment, we (as a region) still have self-esteem issues. A winning team goes a LONG way to providing value to an area. How can PDA not know this, after witnessing first-hand how fast Sac came out and was supporting the team this season all over this region? We CAN'T go back to years of wallowing in losses. I warned everyone before it happened that the goodwill had been used up and Sac fans had lost their patience after the Lakers loss and that the FO was playing with fire - that was before they fired Malone.

#2) From Grants rant and the follow-up show, he revealed that the FO was surprised by what he was saying (which of course was only what fans and people around the country had been saying). They likely jumped on him for expressing the points that everyone is saying.
This shows an EXTREME disconnect between the FO and the fanbase (and the general NBA environment).
What the hell is the FO doing, isolating themselves so much that they are SURPRISED when Grant publicly discusses the points that everyone (except the FO, apparently) is wondering about?!
How exactly does the FO operate? Do they only allow yes-men and sychophantic agreements within the organization? (From what was revealed with previous firings (Abdur-Rahim) this seems to be the way they choose to operate)

#3) The FO has been loudly chasing Josh Smith, Derron Williams, and how many others who are horrible fits with the team and have little to offer anymore, and were paid a buttload of money. How could they be SO wrong to actually fire their coach (partially) over not wanting Josh Smith, when the rest of the league didn't even give up ANYthing for the guy? That reveals a level of FO disconnect that suggests they do..... not...... know..... basketball.

#4) Their repeated insistence that "they are smart".
Guys - hate to break it to you, but "being smart" is a dime a dozen and doesn;t get you anywhere in most places. There are many of us on this board (myself included) that have high IQ's, but I have never imagined to use that one statistical data point to lord it over anyone I encounter in a business setting. Could you imagine how laughably embarrassing (to me) that would be if we used that in everyday communication?

#5) Their inability to recognize that the Kings as constructed can not currently win with an up-tempo, open-court style of play. The only way they can win is by focusing on defense, rebounds, and inside play.
This is the most baffling disconnect of all, because this isn't theory. This has been PROVEN on the court this year! This doesn't take a big-brained, visionary to realize - this was just seen and proven this year!
Cousins is required for the Kings to be successful, and up-tempo is not him. They seem to believe they can (and should) win without him, which would be laughable if it wasn't so apparent to anyone who's watched the Kings the past 3 years (apparently the FO doesn;t watch the games like the rest of us do).

#6) The FO believes that Cousins' attitude (and being "on-board") is not vital to being a successful team. This is not theory - this has just been proven by Cousins not being with the FO decision or style of play. It's one thing to think you can fire your head coach who believes in a defensive style of basketball and instill another coach who's more conducive to your style - it's another to not care about your star (mercurial) player's buy-in on your decision is not important. They can't just swap out Cousins with an equitable star player who's more on board with the FO's plans. They are stuck with Cousins, and they apparently don't think he needs to feel respected for him to play well (and hard).
Wow, talk about a FO disconnect - it's like they haven;t watched a year of Cousins' play before....


#7) The FO seems to think the NBA is just shifting data points around, like some big videogame.
They have wantonly ignored one of the main causational factors for NBA success - the whole team buying into a concept, and killing themselves out on the floor every night and day to work together for that goal.
The Kings had that for 15 games, and we all saw what it could do, and (to quote VF21)- then the FO peed all over it.
The hubris that's required to think that the players are automatons who will play hard for anyone whenever we tell them to, reaches racial/classist levels of disconnect.
These NBA players are not typical employees who you can just force to work harder or you fire them, like in the sharktank business world. You can't put ultimatums out and pressure people into working harder. You need them to buy in and work together, fighting alongside them, for them to gel as a team and put the effort in it takes to win in the NBA. Better effort can beat better talent many times in the NBA, we've seen it night-in, night-out for decades - but the lesser talent has to all work together and want to win. But they can't just do it by back-court pressing. They do it by every guy playing harder than normal, and better than his average.
This FO has proven they are oblivious to that - completely.
 
#42
If I hear the word "patience" one more time I'm going to lose my mind.

As long as that word is thrown around by our front office, I'm going to assume there is a bad product on the floor and I will not spend a dime on this team. Arco or the new arena, I work too damn hard for my money to blow it on the world's longest rebuild.
Oh I'm definitely feeling like patience is the best course of action for Kings fans. Personally I will patiently wait until I see some signs that D'Alessandro is making the team better and not worse before I pay for another ticket to a Kings game. I will tell my in-laws to be patient about my answer regarding splitting season tickets with them next year too.

I have no issues being patient with the Kings if I see something moving in the right direction. I would have hated to see Boogie go but I would have even been fine with a complete and utter reboot if I had the confidence that the guy in charge of it knew what he was doing.

But this "trust us, there's a plan" doesn't fly if you haven't previously done something to elicit that trust. Even less so if I think you're doing things that actually make the team worse as Malone's dismissal certainly seems to be.
 
#43
The biggest disconnect I think is rather simple. Kings fans are near a decade into rebuilding. Or at minimum, on year 5 since this is year five for Boogie. The front office is one year and change into it. They expect patience from fans since really, they just got here. Fair enough. And true.

We say, loudly, we've had patience. For a LONG time now. We saw results, and want more.

They, on the other hand, and there is some speculation here, are targeting the new arena as go time. That's always been the case. This season's success, as fleeting as it was, surprised the front office, who was expecting a quick collapse early, firing Malone with little argument from anyone, then just letting Corbin take over and lead us to a lottery pick, which I very much think is part of the plan.

What better way to get off to a great start in the new arena than to start out as low as possible. These idiot fans will go nuts, they think. And by being bad now, we get the bonus of a draft pick.

PDA strongly insinuated this fan base expects very little and that what Malone accomplished was unsustainable and a fluke. Well, we will never know now.

For fans, that was more than worth finding out instead of another draft pick. For the front office, I think that draft pick is key. They'll never admit it though.

Really, the front office doesn't expect or desperately need wins now. The payoff is when the arena opens. Fans want it all right now.

Completely different time scales.
 
#44
PDA strongly insinuated this fan base expects very little and that what Malone accomplished was unsustainable and a fluke. Well, we will never know now.

For fans, that was more than worth finding out instead of another draft pick. For the front office, I think that draft pick is key. They'll never admit it though.

Really, the front office doesn't expect or desperately need wins now. The payoff is when the arena opens. Fans want it all right now.

Completely different time scales.
i think it's a bit disingenuous to say "fans want it all right now." i don't think that kings fans collectively headed into this season with a "playoffs or bust" mentality, and i don't think most held such a mentality even after the strong start. i think most were looking for signs of progress, signs that we simply received much earlier than expected and against a level of competition we wouldn't have expected...

most importantly, though, the signs pointed towards sustainability; consistent effort, a commitment to defense, and a punishing low-post attack are all sustainable, provided the team stays healthy. these aren't factors that waver at the whim of the basketball gods. it's not as if the kings were on a hot shooting streak and were expected to cool off. their offense was, in fact, a bit of a mess, but even with ball movement issues and outside shooting struggles, the wins were coming regularly against stiff competition, spirits were high, the defense was clicking amongst the starters, and the team was unified behind their head coach, flawed though he may have been [in only his second f***ing year as a head coach, let's not forget]...

i think kings fans would have happily settled for a battle over 9th or 10th place, as long as the team was competitive and showed improvement that they could build on. at least from the 9th or 10th spot you can actively dream about the kind of run that pushes the team into the playoffs. it sure as hell would have been nice to have something to hope for after the trade deadline this year, rather than the inevitable draft breakdowns we're going to be diving into with fervor come march/april/may/june...
 
#45
i think it's a bit disingenuous to say "fans want it all right now." i don't think that kings fans collectively headed into this season with a "playoffs or bust" mentality, and i don't think most held such a mentality even after the strong start. i think most were looking for signs of progress, signs that we simply received much earlier than expected and against a level of competition we wouldn't have expected...

most importantly, though, the signs pointed towards sustainability; consistent effort, a commitment to defense, and a punishing low-post attack are all sustainable, provided the team stays healthy. these aren't factors that waver at the whim of the basketball gods. it's not as if the kings were on a hot shooting streak and were expected to cool off. their offense was, in fact, a bit of a mess, but even with ball movement issues and outside shooting struggles, the wins were coming regularly against stiff competition, spirits were high, the defense was clicking amongst the starters, and the team was unified behind their head coach, flawed though he may have been [in only his second f***ing year as a head coach, let's not forget]...

i think kings fans would have happily settled for a battle over 9th or 10th place, as long as the team was competitive and showed improvement that they could build on. at least from the 9th or 10th spot you can actively dream about the kind of run that pushes the team into the playoffs. it sure as hell would have been nice to have something to hope for after the trade deadline this year, rather than the inevitable draft breakdowns we're going to be diving into with fervor come march/april/may/june...
Not literally, just a figure of speech. Another 28 win season though? Unacceptable.

That may be fine to the FO, even ideal in the long term. But to us, we need hope. They underestimated how badly this fan base needs that right now.
 
#47
Not literally, just a figure of speech. Another 28 win season though? Unacceptable.

That may be fine to the FO, even ideal in the long term. But to us, we need hope. They underestimated how badly this fan base needs that right now.
indeed. i was hoping for a .500 or better finish. but at this point, the team is going to have to hover above .400 just to stave off the pitchforks, the first wave of which is already brandished by kings fans far less generous than myself (and i'd hardly say that i'm soft on the new regime)...
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#48
If I hear the word "patience" one more time I'm going to lose my mind.

As long as that word is thrown around by our front office, I'm going to assume there is a bad product on the floor and I will not spend a dime on this team. Arco or the new arena, I work too damn hard for my money to blow it on the world's longest rebuild.
From Sept 27th:

“Last year, when the season started, I said that it wasn’t going to be about wins and losses,” Ranadivé said yesterday at the Kings annual media day festivities. “When I came here, we bought the team and there was disfunction in the locker room. There wasn’t mutual respect. The arena was literally falling apart.

“The roof was falling down so we brought in a new team, we restored stability, restored respect,” Ranadivé added. “We put in a system, we put in a strong culture. But this year, let’s be clear – it is about wins and losses.”

Was that just Vivek, or did PDA feel this same?

Ranadive has refused to put a number on the wins he wants to see this season. But unlike last year, he said he will judge success more on the team's record.

D'Alessandro agreed.

"We're not patient anymore. We want to win more," he said.

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/...kings-optimistic-changes-will-translate-into/


Then what did we hear after Malone was fired?

“The NBA has increasingly become like the high-tech business,” said Ranadive. “Just because you invent the iPhone doesn’t mean you can rest on your laurels, because someone is building a better phone. Just because you win 50 games doesn’t mean the status quo is OK, or that you don’t try to get Ray Allen. Good enough just isn’t. You have to get better. So, we felt it was time for us to pivot, to (play) defense and offense. And we think we can make the playoffs.

This year?

Again, the boss didn’t duck and run. He laid it on the table.

“Absolutely, with DeMarcus (Cousins) coming back,” he said, “we have a chance to make the playoffs.”



Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/ailene-voisin/article4544925.html#storylink=cpy

and

The owner facing fan scrutiny after firing his head coach, now explaining his winning formula.

“We believe the pivot that we have made will actually allow us to win more games
,” Ranadivé said.


http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2014/12/17/vivek-ranadive-defends-decision-to-fire-michael-malone/


Yet suddenly, as PDA surmised on KHTK, we need patience. It will take time. You know, PDA and Vivek, if the fan base isn't patient at this time, you need not look any further than in the mirror as to why, as it's your comments and your expectations which said otherwise, both in training camp and directly after firing Malone. Doing a 180 and blaming the fans' lack of patience for your failures and poor decisions is the worst type of leadership route you can take, and it will hit you financially if you still yet haven't recognized what the results of your actions mean.