Fox and/or #4 Trade Ideas

#91
That's...what I'm saying, and yes those are ramifications. Your goal should always be to obtain an all star that produces for your team. But if that player doesn't appear to be available at 4 in the draft, widen your search to find an equivalent on the open market in trade. And if an all star doesn't appear to be obtainable in the draft or open market, then you shift down to star player. Regardless of the use of the asset, you get the best player you can that fits what you need to do (or just BPA if you are in our situation). But that doesn't mean it has to be in the draft. Use the asset to get the best return, regardless if you use it to actually draft a player.
Again your bolded point is the extreme short term viewpoint which has been typical of the Kings under Vivek. Sadly this viewpoint has seeped into portions of the fan base.
 

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#92
I think most in that thread have an accurate read on where Wiggins is.

He went from one of the worst defenders in the league to a very capable one, and recovered from the initial expectations of being a superstar to settling in as a high level role player. The issue is that he's overpaid relative to his production. If he's moved to another team where he'd be asked to do more, he'd likely score a bit more but on lower efficiency and his defense would likely dip a bit.

Wiggins is a better player now, but he's still not a first or second option on a contending team. But the other major point is that he's going into his last year of his deal. Why trade the #4 pick and years of low cost control over a rookie for a player who could leave as a free agent after next season OR who you'd have to lock in with another huge contract?
 

Warhawk

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#94
Regardless of the use of the asset, you get the best player you can that fits what you need to do (or just BPA if you are in our situation).
Again your bolded point is the extreme short term viewpoint which has been typical of the Kings under Vivek. Sadly this viewpoint has seeped into portions of the fan base.
Really? We shouldn't look to get the best player we can get with a draft pick asset? Are you saying we should shoot for the worst player we can find? Maybe the most average player? I guess I'm confused on how to improve the team if we aren't trying to get the best players we can. You said we should only come away with a "multi year all star" - that sure sounds like trying to get the best player you can to me....
 
#98
27pts 11 reb in west conf finals
He sure seems like a role player to me :)
But let's not lose sight that he is a role player. Role players can go for 27/11. A role player can step up and have a big game. The question is whether they can get that 27/11 consistently, and whether they can do it when the defense is focused on them. That is the difference between a role player and star. Wiggins can't consistently get 27/11 in a playoff game as the #1 or #2 option, at least not if you want to win. He gets 27/11 because the defense treats him like a #4 option, and he has the skills to get loose when he isn't the focal point of the defense. But don't confuse that with being a star. He is a really solid role player.
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
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Considering that Golden State has already had 3 lotto picks in the last 2 years and the players they drafted there have given them a combined 36 uneventful minutes in the first 3 games of this series, why would they trade one of their better players for the chance to grab another long-term project?
 
Considering that Golden State has already had 3 lotto picks in the last 2 years and the players they drafted there have given them a combined 36 uneventful minutes in the first 3 games of this series, why would they trade one of their better players for the chance to grab another long-term project?
It comes down to $ for GS.


There are several articles about moving Wiggins. The one i cited earlier was https://clutchpoints.com/warriors-r...on-andrew-wiggins-trade-might-be-unavoidable/

Again, I'm not saying Wiggins is 'the' answer, and I'm still waiting for someone to propose a better idea.

Also, the move would likely include Holmes, and some wings on the last year of their deals (Holiday and Hark), so they fill out their roster and we get another talented player. We NEED talent on the wing.
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
It comes down to $ for GS.


There are several articles about moving Wiggins. The one i cited earlier was https://clutchpoints.com/warriors-r...on-andrew-wiggins-trade-might-be-unavoidable/

Again, I'm not saying Wiggins is 'the' answer, and I'm still waiting for someone to propose a better idea.

Also, the move would likely include Holmes, and some wings on the last year of their deals (Holiday and Hark), so they fill out their roster and we get another talented player. We NEED talent on the wing.
He only has one year left on his contract anyway so the reason to move him wouldn't be to save money, it would be to get an asset in return before his contract comes off the books. But if you're GS and your team is going to fall off a cliff as soon as Steph Curry hangs it up, would you rather move your starting SF for another draft pick or for a guy who will help you win while you still have Steph, Klay, and Draymond? They already tried the soft reboot with Wiseman, Kuminga, and Moody. Are they really going to want to use 4+ roster spots on preparing for the future while their core is still there?
 
Are they really going to want to use 4+ roster spots on preparing for the future while their core is still there?
They are at $171 million (23 million over luxury tax) with only 8 guaranteed contracts, so they might want to, yes.

Their core is Steph, Klay, and Draymond. They likely want to keep Poole, so moving Wiggins makes sense as they can't afford both (when Poole needs to resign).

Holmes is not preparing for the future, neither would the expiring contracts we would send (Holiday, Hark).
 
He only has one year left on his contract anyway so the reason to move him wouldn't be to save money, it would be to get an asset in return before his contract comes off the books. But if you're GS and your team is going to fall off a cliff as soon as Steph Curry hangs it up, would you rather move your starting SF for another draft pick or for a guy who will help you win while you still have Steph, Klay, and Draymond? They already tried the soft reboot with Wiseman, Kuminga, and Moody. Are they really going to want to use 4+ roster spots on preparing for the future while their core is still there?
If they’re smart, they’ll milk that core as long as they can. Generational cores are generational for a reason.
 
They likely can afford him long-term with the way their cap shakes out, but I wonder if 4 for Jordan Poole would interest them? He'd be much more in line with a talent I'd want for the 4th pick than Collins.
 
I doubt the 4 is worth poole straight up. The guy creates, scores, and defends. He is they type of player Minnesota was hoping for when they traded for wiggins.

You would need to throw in Davion for that trade to work.

Frankly if we move the pick or not, im ok. But we need sign nba level talent in FA. Targets should be portis, bamba, hartenstein, in this order for bigs, and Martin twins for perimeter. Resign ddv amd if we cant get any of the above bigs, resign Damian Jones.

Next priority is to move Holmes and Len and possibly Harkless to get an impact player. If the #4 is utilized in this, then we better be getting a hellnof a player.
 
I doubt the 4 is worth poole straight up. The guy creates, scores, and defends. He is they type of player Minnesota was hoping for when they traded for wiggins.

You would need to throw in Davion for that trade to work.

Frankly if we move the pick or not, im ok. But we need sign nba level talent in FA. Targets should be portis, bamba, hartenstein, in this order for bigs, and Martin twins for perimeter. Resign ddv amd if we cant get any of the above bigs, resign Damian Jones.

Next priority is to move Holmes and Len and possibly Harkless to get an impact player. If the #4 is utilized in this, then we better be getting a hellnof a player.
Yeah just an idea. They can make it work, but they essentially are going to just have to let Wiggins walk in FA after next season, which they're probably ok with as they transition to Poole/Moody/Kuminga/Wiseman as the next core up.
 
Poole is maxed in terms of what he can do. Solid player but my goodness, lets not get it twisted.
Based on what? He has made significant leaps each of the 3 years. He has dramatically improved his range and shot every year. And remember, he comes off the bench since Klay came back... Inthe beginning of the playoffs this year when he was starting for injured steph, he was killing it. I see him as a 25/5/5 player as he continues to develop.
 
Based on what? He has made significant leaps each of the 3 years. He has dramatically improved his range and shot every year. And remember, he comes off the bench since Klay came back... Inthe beginning of the playoffs this year when he was starting for injured steph, he was killing it. I see him as a 25/5/5 player as he continues to develop.
Based on the fact that he's gotten a role to be able to produce and he was fairly developed already.
 
Holmes, Harkless, Lyles #4 (Ivey) for J Randle #11 (Daniels, Murray, Mathurin, Sharpe, Griffin, Agbaji)

Fox, Mitchell
#11, DDV,TD
Barnes, Holiday, #37
Randle, Metu,#49
Sabonis, Len, Jones,Queta
 
Holmes, Harkless, Lyles #4 (Ivey) for J Randle #11 (Daniels, Murray, Mathurin, Sharpe, Griffin, Agbaji)

Fox, Mitchell
#11, DDV,TD
Barnes, Holiday, #37
Randle, Metu,#49
Sabonis, Len, Jones,Queta
Randle is a pretty awful fit with Sabonis. Definitely would be disappointed if we gave up #4 for such an ill fitting player while also removing our cap flexibility going forward at the same time.
 
I was down with a Randle trade at one point, but not at 4 with a drop that far in the draft. The Kings have a chance to luck into a potential star who is on a rookie contract during the time they'll be making the big moves with MAX money coming next summer. Just go with that and see what shakes out. This should have gone from, "We want to make the playoffs", to "Crap, we might be able to build a dynasty if we play this right and don't gunk up our cap".
 
People just assume the Kangz are going to Kangz. I do find it a bit funny that for pretty much the whole college season this was seen as a 4 player draft. As soon as the Kings move up to 4? 3 player draft, lol. This is GM's working the media hoping Vlade wasn't the one making all those bad draft move backs.
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
Fox and Sabonis have barely played together and already look like they have outstanding chemistry. Davion Mitchell is spending the whole summer in the gym working on his jumper. We have a #4 pick and a new coach coming in this year and money for a max FA next summer. That seems like a pretty good path to being good already if you ask me. I hope we don't make any trades unless someone (DET, IND, POR or NOP) is so desperate to move up a couple of spots that they'll give us a top 8 pick this year and either an additional first round pick or a starting caliber player.

If the pick is Ivey, give the Fox/Ivey backcourt a chance to work before selling low on a top 25 player who isn't even 25 years old yet. If the pick is anyone else, we won't even know what type of player would compliment them until we see them play for a season. All sorts of brilliant plans are made on paper on draft day that amount to nothing. We're so close to being relevant, I would hate to see us cut that progression off at the knees in a misguided attempt to chase a one year championship (in Sacramento Kings terms that would mean making the playoffs). It will happen when it's supposed to happen if we just trust the people we've already invested in.