Following 2018 draftees

206Fan

Well-Known Member
Knox looks like the best Kentucky player to me, albeit he is inconsistent but he shows flashes of being a capable NBA player.
lol oddly enough, Giovny from DX did an interview where he broke down their non-1st round NBA prospects.

http://www.kentucky.com/sports/college/kentucky-sports/uk-basketball-men/article196572169.html

I agree with everything he said. It's a weird limbo for Calipari. Some of these guys just aren't NBA talents imo. I think Knox is definitely the most intriguing player followed by Diallo and Shai.
 

bajaden

Well-Known Member
lol oddly enough, Giovny from DX did an interview where he broke down their non-1st round NBA prospects.

http://www.kentucky.com/sports/college/kentucky-sports/uk-basketball-men/article196572169.html

I agree with everything he said. It's a weird limbo for Calipari. Some of these guys just aren't NBA talents imo. I think Knox is definitely the most intriguing player followed by Diallo and Shai.
I don't disagree with the article. I think all three of the players they list will be first round picks, it's just a matter of where. I do think that there are more players on the team that have NBA talent, but aren't ready for the transition yet. Very similar to Willie Cauley-Stein who certainly wasn't ready after his freshman year, but ended up being a lottery pick a few years later. It's been a tough year for Kentucky, because first, they've been starting five freshmen at times, something that's unheard of. And, it wasn't one of Calipari's best recruiting classes. He didn't land but one player in the top ten and that was Kevin Knox, who was ranked the 10th best player in the country.

It wasn't for lack of trying of course. Calipari offered to all of the top recruits, including Bagley, Ayton, Carter, Porter, and Bamba. And he, for once in his recruiting career got none of them. It happens! He even offered to Trey Young. Young decided to stay close to home in Oklahoma. Porter went to where his uncle was on the staff. And so on and so on. Just bad luck to some degree. I think Calapari's hope is that most of his first year players decide to stay for a second year. If so, he's likely to have a hell of a team next year.
 

bajaden

Well-Known Member
Since you ask, I'll give you my current top twenty.

1. Luka Doncic: I've watched him play quite a bit this year, thanks to, http://www.livebasketball.tv/. Not free, but they provide excellent service with live games, and past games of the season.
2. DeAndre Ayton: I still have some reservations about him, but none are skill related. Tremendous upside.
3. Jaren Jackson: Of late, along with still getting into foul trouble in almost every game, he's shown off his handles. That moved him up on my list.
4. Marvin Bagley: Bagley just keeps putting up numbers, and you can't deny what he's doing. As I've said, he's just a jumpshot away from being a potential superstar.
5. Michael Porter: I'm still hopeful that he'll make an appearance this season. If not, the combine and workouts will determine his final spot.
6. Trae Young: He could go higher if a team has a need, but the Kings don't, and I can't honestly say his potential is higher than those I have above him. But wouldn't surprise me if he went top three.
7. Mikal Bridges: He's ready to step on the floor and play right now. Just a solid fundamental player who plays terrific defense, and can hit the three. Could be the next Kawhi Leonard.
8. Mohamed Bamba: Like Young, he could go higher depending on a teams needs. More raw overall than those above him, but with great potential.
9. Wendal Carter: I really like Carter, who in a way, like Mikal Bridges, is a very solid fundamental player. Unfortunately he's been overshadowed by Bagley. I think he'll be a very good NBA player.
10. Miles Bridges: Talented player, but what exactly is he. A PF? A SF? He's a solid college defender, but on offense makes bonehead plays that leave me scratching my head. Also an inconsistent shooter.
11. Collin Sexton: Very athletic PG that looks for his own shot a tad too much to suit me. Shooting 36.6% from the three overall, but only 27.0% for the last 10 games. Potential to be an NBA starter.
12. Kevin Knox: Maybe the best player on the Kentucky team. Playing much better of late with better aggressiveness on both ends. Could be a steal at 12 if someone can light a fire under him.
13. Brandon McCoy: Being somewhat overlooked because of all the big men in this draft, but he could end up being one of the best. He's impressed me every time I see him play.
14. Robert Williams: Should have come out last year. I see little improvement from last season. Little to no game away from the basket. 0 for 7 from the three. and shooting 46.7% from the freethrow line.
15. Troy Brown: He's struggled with his shot at times, (31.4% 3pp) but he's a solid defender who knows how to play the game. He might stay another year, but I see him as a borderline lottery pick right now.
16. Mitchell Robinson: Very good athlete with size and length. He was projected as a lottery pick until the debacle with W. Kentucky. So, a bit of a mystery man, but he probably won't fall far.
17. Dzanan Musa: One of the benefits of the livebasketball tv site is seeing players like Musa. The dude can score, and from anywhere on the court. Can he defend? Don't know, but he's certainly worth the gamble here.
18. Chandler Hutchison: I just really really like this kid. He's improved his game the last two years. Will his game translate to the NBA? Not sure. It's a big jump, but I wouldn't bet against him.
19. Daniel Gafford: Yep, yet another big man. Not much game away from the basket, and he needs to get stronger, but there's definitely potential there.
20. Shai Gilgeouis-Alexander: Probably the biggest surprise on the Kentucky team. At times, he's the best player on the team. More of a combo guard that can shoot, pass, and defend at 6'6". Damm good athlete too.

All this is subject to change of course, and probably will change. Bamba is starting to hit his 3 pt shot since I made this list, so he could move up. Trae Young threw up 44 pts and singlehandedly won the last game for Oklahoma. Might be hard to keep him behind Porter, or even Bagley if he keeps it up. One thing is for sure. This is a very good draft class at the top, and your going to get a good player all the way down to 21 or 22. For instance, I have Keita Bates-Diop at 21, and I have no doubts that he can at the very least, be a solid rotational SF in the NBA, and maybe more than that.
 

Kingster

Well-Known Member
I want to know from the guys or gals who thought the Kings should take Mitchell #1 who they think the Kings should take this year. Anybody who thought they should have taken Kuzma should apply for the Kings' new Director of Player Personnel.
 

Kingster

Well-Known Member
Why is Jackson fouling too much? Is it low BBIQ, or some other reason(s)? Unless you know what the reasons are you can't evaluate him accurately it seems to me.
 

bajaden

Well-Known Member
Why is Jackson fouling too much? Is it low BBIQ, or some other reason(s)? Unless you know what the reasons are you can't evaluate him accurately it seems to me.
I've watched probably 12 to 14 games with Jackson, and to be honest, I can't answer your question, other than I think the ref's have singled him out to some extent. I've watched him get called for some of the most ticky tacky fouls while others in the same game almost mug players without getting called. However, I can't lay it all on the ref's. He does get caught with his hand in the cookie jar a bit too much. Call it over aggressiveness if you will. He's also the last line of defense on a team with very poor perimeter defense. Let me put it this way. I don't think his foul problems will be nearly as great in the NBA, where physical play is more tolerated. If the worse thing I have to worry about in a player is his foul rate, then I'm not too worried. If I have to worry about his handles, or his shooting stroke, then that's something that's concerning.

Jaren Jackson is one of the most instinctive shot blockers I've seen in a while, and I put him on a par with Bamba in that area. However, when you add his offensive skills to the package, then maybe you've got something special. The last thing I worry about with him is his BBIQ. I do have those concerns though about his running mate, Bridges, who at times makes ridiculous bonehead decisions.
 

bajaden

Well-Known Member
I want to know from the guys or gals who thought the Kings should take Mitchell #1 who they think the Kings should take this year. Anybody who thought they should have taken Kuzma should apply for the Kings' new Director of Player Personnel.
I don't remember too many people saying that we should take Mitchell number one instead of Fox. I know I certainly wasn't one of them. I really liked Mitchell, but I didn't look at him as a pure PG. I watched Mitchell play quite a bit, and never saw anything the would have let me know that he would be this good. I knew he was a decent to good shooter at Louisville, but 35% from the three is nice, but not something to write home about. Obviously the system he was playing in restricted some of his talents, particularly his aggressiveness. It's not often that a player goes from college to the NBA, and then exceeds his best year in college. Kuzma did the same thing, but he wasn't as much of a surprise to me. I had four players targeted for the Kings in the 2nd round, and Kuzma was one of them. But I'd lying if I said I knew he was going to be this good.

A couple of players that I think are going to be better in the NBA than they are in college are Mikal Bridges, and Keita Bates-Diop. I like Chandler Hutchison quite a bit as well, but I'm hesitant to jump in with both feet on him due to the lack of competition at his level. I also like Brandon McCoy at UNLV. In a different year, he'd probably be a lottery pick, and who knows, he may slide into the bottom of the lottery after the combine and the individual workouts. Another kid that I think is going to be better in the NBA is Troy Brown from Oregon. He's struggled with his outside shot (32.5% from the three) all year, but does everything else really well, especially defense. Very good athlete who also rebounds well for a SF. If your looking for a backup PG with starting potential in the future, who can also play solid defense, then look no further than Landry Shamet of Wichita St. He's shooting just a tad under 50% overall, and has shot around 44% from the three for the last two years. Probably leans a bit more toward the combo guard definition, but he's a very good basketball player. Hmmm, I think I said the same thing about some player named Mitchell last year.
 

Kingster

Well-Known Member
I don't remember too many people saying that we should take Mitchell number one instead of Fox. I know I certainly wasn't one of them. I really liked Mitchell, but I didn't look at him as a pure PG. I watched Mitchell play quite a bit, and never saw anything the would have let me know that he would be this good. I knew he was a decent to good shooter at Louisville, but 35% from the three is nice, but not something to write home about. Obviously the system he was playing in restricted some of his talents, particularly his aggressiveness. It's not often that a player goes from college to the NBA, and then exceeds his best year in college. Kuzma did the same thing, but he wasn't as much of a surprise to me. I had four players targeted for the Kings in the 2nd round, and Kuzma was one of them. But I'd lying if I said I knew he was going to be this good.

A couple of players that I think are going to be better in the NBA than they are in college are Mikal Bridges, and Keita Bates-Diop. I like Chandler Hutchison quite a bit as well, but I'm hesitant to jump in with both feet on him due to the lack of competition at his level. I also like Brandon McCoy at UNLV. In a different year, he'd probably be a lottery pick, and who knows, he may slide into the bottom of the lottery after the combine and the individual workouts. Another kid that I think is going to be better in the NBA is Troy Brown from Oregon. He's struggled with his outside shot (32.5% from the three) all year, but does everything else really well, especially defense. Very good athlete who also rebounds well for a SF. If your looking for a backup PG with starting potential in the future, who can also play solid defense, then look no further than Landry Shamet of Wichita St. He's shooting just a tad under 50% overall, and has shot around 44% from the three for the last two years. Probably leans a bit more toward the combo guard definition, but he's a very good basketball player. Hmmm, I think I said the same thing about some player named Mitchell last year.
Who do you think is the best player in the Pac 12?
 

bajaden

Well-Known Member
Who do you think is the best player in the Pac 12?
In the Pac 12? Well it's hard to bet against Ayton. There are some other nice players like Kris Wilkes from UCLA, DeAnthony Melton from USC, and Troy Brown from Oregon, but none of them are in the same universe as Ayton right now. I would say that hands down, he's the best player in the Pac 12.
 

Capt. Factorial

Cantry Member
Staff member
Contributor
In the Pac 12? Well it's hard to bet against Ayton. There are some other nice players like Kris Wilkes from UCLA, DeAnthony Melton from USC, and Troy Brown from Oregon, but none of them are in the same universe as Ayton right now. I would say that hands down, he's the best player in the Pac 12.
I'm not completely sold on Wilkes. I'm not sure he really has the size to be a 3 at the next level - listed at 6'8" but he sure looks like he comes in two inches under that to me. His shooting has been pretty good, but I'm not yet sold on his handle or BBIQ and I hope he stays another year at UCLA (perhaps selfishly, but I think it's also in his best interest).

I can't even right now place Wilkes as better than the #3 player on his own team. Aaron Holiday may not be a hot prospect because of his height (basically a 5'11"-6'0" PG) but he's by far the team MVP. His ability to run a team has grown by leaps and bound this year, and at this point anytime he shoots a three you're pretty much convinced it's going in. I'd be pretty surprised if he doesn't come out this year and I'd also be pretty surprised if he doesn't nab at least a backup PG slot within a few years.

And the #2 guy on UCLA right now is senior C Tom Welsh. He's not an athletic player by any means, but he's he's a legit 7-footer who has filled out his body over the last 4 years. He has an absolutely devastating set shot which is almost can't-miss out to say 17 feet, and he has extended his range to three this year and is shooting .389 from behind the arc. He also has at least one very reliable post move, an unblockable righty hook coming across the lane from the left block. He's even a pretty good defender, up at #3 all-time on the UCLA shot blocking list (note that blocked shots weren't recorded in the Alcindor/Walton era and that *great* shotblockers don't tend to stay in school four years, but still). When guys like Channing Frye and Matt Bonner can hold down an NBA job for ten years as shooting specialists I'm beginning to think *somebody* is going to give Welsh a shot.
 

bajaden

Well-Known Member
I'm not completely sold on Wilkes. I'm not sure he really has the size to be a 3 at the next level - listed at 6'8" but he sure looks like he comes in two inches under that to me. His shooting has been pretty good, but I'm not yet sold on his handle or BBIQ and I hope he stays another year at UCLA (perhaps selfishly, but I think it's also in his best interest).

I can't even right now place Wilkes as better than the #3 player on his own team. Aaron Holiday may not be a hot prospect because of his height (basically a 5'11"-6'0" PG) but he's by far the team MVP. His ability to run a team has grown by leaps and bound this year, and at this point anytime he shoots a three you're pretty much convinced it's going in. I'd be pretty surprised if he doesn't come out this year and I'd also be pretty surprised if he doesn't nab at least a backup PG slot within a few years.

And the #2 guy on UCLA right now is senior C Tom Welsh. He's not an athletic player by any means, but he's he's a legit 7-footer who has filled out his body over the last 4 years. He has an absolutely devastating set shot which is almost can't-miss out to say 17 feet, and he has extended his range to three this year and is shooting .389 from behind the arc. He also has at least one very reliable post move, an unblockable righty hook coming across the lane from the left block. He's even a pretty good defender, up at #3 all-time on the UCLA shot blocking list (note that blocked shots weren't recorded in the Alcindor/Walton era and that *great* shotblockers don't tend to stay in school four years, but still). When guys like Channing Frye and Matt Bonner can hold down an NBA job for ten years as shooting specialists I'm beginning to think *somebody* is going to give Welsh a shot.

Well, according to Bill Walton, Welsh is the 2nd coming of, you fill in the name. I've tried to like Welsh, and I'll give you the set shot, but after about 5 or 6 minutes of watching him play, I'm ready to turn the channel. I'm probably being too hard on him, but I just can't see him playing in the NBA. I hope for his sake, I'm wrong. I agree on Wilkes being the third best option, but I also think he probably has the most potential to be an NBA player. I agree he needs to stay at least another year, especially with this years draft being loaded. His chances of being drafted higher are better next year with another year of experience, and a weaker draft. I really really like Holiday and think he talented enough to play in the NBA, but he's a junior, and although listed at 6'1", I doubt he's really that tall. For the most part I was trying to list players off the top of my head that have some future potential. I'm sure there are more than those I mentioned. However, I do think that Ayton is the cream of the crop in the Pac 12.

There are players on the Arizona team that I like. Allonzo Trier and Rawle Alkins spring to mind. Also Ristic, who probably has little chance of being drafted. I see both Ristic and Welsh having nice careers in Europe.
 

206Fan

Well-Known Member
Unrelated, but I feel horrible for Andrew Jones. For those of you who don't know, he's a Sophomore guard at Texas who's recently been diagnosed with Leukemia.

Just saw this video of him putting up shots on a mini court From the video, you can see he lost a ton of weight and muscle. I can't imagine what he's going through right now. In terms of NBA, lots of people on this board was talking about him as a prospect last year. I think he would've been a 20s-30s pick this year.

It's crazy... we were all just watching him play at Texas a month ago.
 

bajaden

Well-Known Member
Unrelated, but I feel horrible for Andrew Jones. For those of you who don't know, he's a Sophomore guard at Texas who's recently been diagnosed with Leukemia.

Just saw this video of him putting up shots on a mini court From the video, you can see he lost a ton of weight and muscle. I can't imagine what he's going through right now. In terms of NBA, lots of people on this board was talking about him as a prospect last year. I think he would've been a 20s-30s pick this year.

It's crazy... we were all just watching him play at Texas a month ago.
Yeah, I've see other pictures of him as well and they're hard to look at. I pray to god that he recovers. You never know what surprise life has in store for you. Real bummer!
 

Kingster

Well-Known Member
I saw the Purdue/Michigan St. game, hoping to see Jackson. Izzo has got to be a mega-control freak, or he just wants to hid his "one and done" prize by jerking him around. He plays Jackson about 4 minutes in the game; takes him out for no apparent reason; puts him back in after extended stay on the bench; Jackson ends up getting a foul; takes him out immediately; keeps him out forever; finally puts him back in and Jackson gets a foul after doing some good stuff; Izzo takes him out until there's just four minutes left in the game. Funny thing is that Jackson gets a foul with three minutes to play and he looks to the bench because he figures that Izzo is going to take him out; Izzo fakes him out and keeps in the game; after Jackson makes his basket, THEN Izzo takes him out of the game. What a jerk fest by a jerk of a coach. How in the world can a 18 year old kid learn the game with this control freak of a coach? He's got to go to the NBA just to get out from under this guy's thumb.
 

bajaden

Well-Known Member
I saw the Purdue/Michigan St. game, hoping to see Jackson. Izzo has got to be a mega-control freak, or he just wants to hid his "one and done" prize by jerking him around. He plays Jackson about 4 minutes in the game; takes him out for no apparent reason; puts him back in after extended stay on the bench; Jackson ends up getting a foul; takes him out immediately; keeps him out forever; finally puts him back in and Jackson gets a foul after doing some good stuff; Izzo takes him out until there's just four minutes left in the game. Funny thing is that Jackson gets a foul with three minutes to play and he looks to the bench because he figures that Izzo is going to take him out; Izzo fakes him out and keeps in the game; after Jackson makes his basket, THEN Izzo takes him out of the game. What a jerk fest by a jerk of a coach. How in the world can a 18 year old kid learn the game with this control freak of a coach? He's got to go to the NBA just to get out from under this guy's thumb.
Yeah, this is what we've had to deal with all season long. I have no idea what Izzo was doing at the end of that game. He only had one player on his bench that had the ability and the size to deal with the 7'2" Haas and that was Jackson, and there he was sitting on the bench while Purdue went to Haas over and over again. Made no sense at all. Michigan St. is lucky to win that game. Kudo's to Bridges for hitting that clutch three at the end to put it away for the Spartans.
 

bajaden

Well-Known Member
One of my favorite players this season is Keita Bates-Diop, the 6'7" SF from Ohio St. He's having a breakout game and is one of the leading scorers in the Big Ten conference. What makes Diop interesting is that he's also a very good defensive player. Of course the knock on him will be that he's a senior. He was originally slotted to be a high 2nd round pick, but he's probably played his way into the 1st round. I think I have him going around 23, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him go a bit higher. Of course, unless the Kings were to pick up another 1st rounder somehow, it's unlikely we'll see him in a Kings uniform. Here's a video of his highlights against Mich. St. earlier this year. And I might add, that this game is not an abberation. He does this every game.


 

Kingster

Well-Known Member
Yeah, this is what we've had to deal with all season long. I have no idea what Izzo was doing at the end of that game. He only had one player on his bench that had the ability and the size to deal with the 7'2" Haas and that was Jackson, and there he was sitting on the bench while Purdue went to Haas over and over again. Made no sense at all. Michigan St. is lucky to win that game. Kudo's to Bridges for hitting that clutch three at the end to put it away for the Spartans.
Exactly. I was thinking the same thing. I just can't stand it when coaches take young players out of the game for fear they are going to foul out, when in fact the young player would 9 times out of 10 play more minutes if the coach would just leave him in the game until the kid actually fouled out. The coach is trying to appear smart when in fact it's a very dumb move. I think this is especially stupid for freshmen at the beginning of the season, who need some continuity of minutes to learn something on the floor.

As for Jackson, what I see right now is a guy who is long, agile, fluid, and has good, quick jumping ability. He's very intriguing. If you just look at the physical/athletic characteristics of him, not skill (because I don't what skill he has), I'd rate him over Ayton, who is more of a mechanical type of player. It sure would be nice to see Jackson play with some extended minutes, but I'm not holding my breath. Maybe if you're a scout you sneek into the Michigan St. practice to see him play without being jerked around every few minutes.
 

Kingster

Well-Known Member
Since you ask, I'll give you my current top twenty.

1. Luka Doncic: I've watched him play quite a bit this year, thanks to, http://www.livebasketball.tv/. Not free, but they provide excellent service with live games, and past games of the season.
2. DeAndre Ayton: I still have some reservations about him, but none are skill related. Tremendous upside.
3. Jaren Jackson: Of late, along with still getting into foul trouble in almost every game, he's shown off his handles. That moved him up on my list.
4. Marvin Bagley: Bagley just keeps putting up numbers, and you can't deny what he's doing. As I've said, he's just a jumpshot away from being a potential superstar.
5. Michael Porter: I'm still hopeful that he'll make an appearance this season. If not, the combine and workouts will determine his final spot.
6. Trae Young: He could go higher if a team has a need, but the Kings don't, and I can't honestly say his potential is higher than those I have above him. But wouldn't surprise me if he went top three.
7. Mikal Bridges: He's ready to step on the floor and play right now. Just a solid fundamental player who plays terrific defense, and can hit the three. Could be the next Kawhi Leonard.
8. Mohamed Bamba: Like Young, he could go higher depending on a teams needs. More raw overall than those above him, but with great potential.
9. Wendal Carter: I really like Carter, who in a way, like Mikal Bridges, is a very solid fundamental player. Unfortunately he's been overshadowed by Bagley. I think he'll be a very good NBA player.
10. Miles Bridges: Talented player, but what exactly is he. A PF? A SF? He's a solid college defender, but on offense makes bonehead plays that leave me scratching my head. Also an inconsistent shooter.
11. Collin Sexton: Very athletic PG that looks for his own shot a tad too much to suit me. Shooting 36.6% from the three overall, but only 27.0% for the last 10 games. Potential to be an NBA starter.
12. Kevin Knox: Maybe the best player on the Kentucky team. Playing much better of late with better aggressiveness on both ends. Could be a steal at 12 if someone can light a fire under him.
13. Brandon McCoy: Being somewhat overlooked because of all the big men in this draft, but he could end up being one of the best. He's impressed me every time I see him play.
14. Robert Williams: Should have come out last year. I see little improvement from last season. Little to no game away from the basket. 0 for 7 from the three. and shooting 46.7% from the freethrow line.
15. Troy Brown: He's struggled with his shot at times, (31.4% 3pp) but he's a solid defender who knows how to play the game. He might stay another year, but I see him as a borderline lottery pick right now.
16. Mitchell Robinson: Very good athlete with size and length. He was projected as a lottery pick until the debacle with W. Kentucky. So, a bit of a mystery man, but he probably won't fall far.
17. Dzanan Musa: One of the benefits of the livebasketball tv site is seeing players like Musa. The dude can score, and from anywhere on the court. Can he defend? Don't know, but he's certainly worth the gamble here.
18. Chandler Hutchison: I just really really like this kid. He's improved his game the last two years. Will his game translate to the NBA? Not sure. It's a big jump, but I wouldn't bet against him.
19. Daniel Gafford: Yep, yet another big man. Not much game away from the basket, and he needs to get stronger, but there's definitely potential there.
20. Shai Gilgeouis-Alexander: Probably the biggest surprise on the Kentucky team. At times, he's the best player on the team. More of a combo guard that can shoot, pass, and defend at 6'6". Damm good athlete too.

All this is subject to change of course, and probably will change. Bamba is starting to hit his 3 pt shot since I made this list, so he could move up. Trae Young threw up 44 pts and singlehandedly won the last game for Oklahoma. Might be hard to keep him behind Porter, or even Bagley if he keeps it up. One thing is for sure. This is a very good draft class at the top, and your going to get a good player all the way down to 21 or 22. For instance, I have Keita Bates-Diop at 21, and I have no doubts that he can at the very least, be a solid rotational SF in the NBA, and maybe more than that.
I haven't seen Donic play, so I won't comment on him. I'm putting Bagley #1. I just don't see how he doesn't become a multiple All Star in the NBA. He's got the fluidity in his game that Ayton doesn't have. I think Bagley's versatility is going to make him extremely good in an NBA in which the 3 point line has changed the game. He's going to do whatever you want: come off a pick and shoot, post, 3 point shot, pick and pop, drive and create. Ayton doesn't translate at well into today's NBA, imo, and he's more "mechanical" than Bagley, though I do admit that he's a better defensive player. You have to ask yourself how you're going to use Ayton in today's NBA - put him into the post and have him call for the ball? How much of an offensive impact is he going to give you in today's NBA? We saw with Cousins what a bigger powerful guy could do in the post in his early years. It wasn't nearly as impressive as you would think because it's an entirely different league. He had to make himself into a legit 3 point shooter in order to become an NBA All Star. So you could be waiting a long, long time before Ayton sees an All Star berth, but I don't think nearly as long with Bagley.
 
I haven't seen Donic play, so I won't comment on him. I'm putting Bagley #1. I just don't see how he doesn't become a multiple All Star in the NBA. He's got the fluidity in his game that Ayton doesn't have. I think Bagley's versatility is going to make him extremely good in an NBA in which the 3 point line has changed the game. He's going to do whatever you want: come off a pick and shoot, post, 3 point shot, pick and pop, drive and create. Ayton doesn't translate at well into today's NBA, imo, and he's more "mechanical" than Bagley, though I do admit that he's a better defensive player. You have to ask yourself how you're going to use Ayton in today's NBA - put him into the post and have him call for the ball? How much of an offensive impact is he going to give you in today's NBA? We saw with Cousins what a bigger powerful guy could do in the post in his early years. It wasn't nearly as impressive as you would think because it's an entirely different league. He had to make himself into a legit 3 point shooter in order to become an NBA All Star. So you could be waiting a long, long time before Ayton sees an All Star berth, but I don't think nearly as long with Bagley.
Modest counterpoint...I think Boogie started shooting threes because he was tired of the hard fouls in the paint, could not moderate his reactions to refs/opponents, and wanted to mitigate the physical play. When we played good teams, Boogie would camp on the block and maul the opposing frontcourt—and many times we won like against the Warriors and Cavs last year. Any team below the top tier and Boogie would move out to the perimeter.

I think a player like Ayton can still be successful IF they can anchor the defense. If they are a traffic cone, then any offensive value is probably negated. I do have concerns regarding Ayton’s defense.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
Modest counterpoint...I think Boogie started shooting threes because he was tired of the hard fouls in the paint, could not moderate his reactions to refs/opponents, and wanted to mitigate the physical play. When we played good teams, Boogie would camp on the block and maul the opposing frontcourt—and many times we won like against the Warriors and Cavs last year. Any team below the top tier and Boogie would move out to the perimeter.

I think a player like Ayton can still be successful IF they can anchor the defense. If they are a traffic cone, then any offensive value is probably negated. I do have concerns regarding Ayton’s defense.
This is where you have to take your hands off the wheel and pray that Joerger and Elston Turner can get Ayton to buy in at that end of the court. He'd also have the added benefit of knowing that even if he messed up, he still wouldn't be as bad at defense as a 40-year-old Z-Bo.
 

bajaden

Well-Known Member
Modest counterpoint...I think Boogie started shooting threes because he was tired of the hard fouls in the paint, could not moderate his reactions to refs/opponents, and wanted to mitigate the physical play. When we played good teams, Boogie would camp on the block and maul the opposing frontcourt—and many times we won like against the Warriors and Cavs last year. Any team below the top tier and Boogie would move out to the perimeter.

I think a player like Ayton can still be successful IF they can anchor the defense. If they are a traffic cone, then any offensive value is probably negated. I do have concerns regarding Ayton’s defense.
I also have some concerns about his defense. I think he has all the tools to be a good defender, and I don't know what's being asked of him by the coaching staff. As an example, the Oklahoma coaching staff has admitted to asking Trae Young to back off on defense so as not to get into foul trouble. They realize that without him on the floor, they have zero chance of winning. I don't think that Ayton is quite as valuable individually to his team as Young is to his, but he could be operating under similar instructions.

What we see a player do on the court is all we have to go on, but I don't think we should get too caught up in what we don't see. Because we don't see it doesn't mean it's not there.
 

ESP47

Well-Known Member
Jaren Jackson Jr was something else tonight. Showed off some really nice interior passes off of drives. Wound up with 27 points, 6 reb and 3 blocks in 22 minutes on only 14 shot attempts and was 5 of 8 from three.
 
Was not sure where to post this. While perusing the Kings sub-Reddit I found a post regarding a site that seems perfect for a lot of our posters. If it is legit ( certainly seems so and no actual prizes to my knowledge) and garners some interest I figured many here might like to play along. Rather than try to explain it:

"What I thought would appeal to people would be an outright competition to see who is the best at identifying NBA talent. And with that, WinTheDraft.com was born." - Taken from the About us section.


It will also not only compare individuals scouting ability, but fan bases of teams since you are asked which team you follow. I wager we could give any other fanbase a run for their proverbial money. For the record I have no other knowledge other than stumbling upon it and thinking it might be cool for a lot of our resident scouts. We have some great minds here.

https://winthedraft.com/
 
Modest counterpoint...I think Boogie started shooting threes because he was tired of the hard fouls in the paint, could not moderate his reactions to refs/opponents, and wanted to mitigate the physical play. When we played good teams, Boogie would camp on the block and maul the opposing frontcourt—and many times we won like against the Warriors and Cavs last year. Any team below the top tier and Boogie would move out to the perimeter.

I think a player like Ayton can still be successful IF they can anchor the defense. If they are a traffic cone, then any offensive value is probably negated. I do have concerns regarding Ayton’s defense.
From what I've seen Ayton has plenty of mobility to become very good defensively. I'll leave it to others to discern whether he has the consistent motivation or not. It also looks to me like he'd immediately make a positive impact in defensive rebounding. My concern is on offense. If you pick a center in the top 5 you'd better feel pretty confident in his offense; otherwise you're going to have teams "go small" with one more 3 point shooter on the floor and his effectiveness is not what you would want from a top 5 pick. I'm more confident in Bagley because he has so much offensive versatility I don't think you could go wrong.
 
From what I've seen Ayton has plenty of mobility to become very good defensively. I'll leave it to others to discern whether he has the consistent motivation or not. It also looks to me like he'd immediately make a positive impact in defensive rebounding. My concern is on offense. If you pick a center in the top 5 you'd better feel pretty confident in his offense; otherwise you're going to have teams "go small" with one more 3 point shooter on the floor and his effectiveness is not what you would want from a top 5 pick. I'm more confident in Bagley because he has so much offensive versatility I don't think you could go wrong.
I'll put it this way. If Ayton comes into the NBA with the right attitude, and with fire in his belly, he'll be a superstar. Now to me, those are two big if's, but it does speak to his potential, which is huge. He has a skillset very similar to Karl Anthony Towns. Towns was a better shotblocker, but Ayton is a better low post player, and a more physical player than Towns was in college. Ayton has the ability to create off the dribble, which is a big deal for player his size. He's not my first choice, Doncic is, but he's certainly my second choice. When Ayton is 100% engaged, he's a freaking monster. With emphasis on when!