Fire Paul Westphal
- Thread starter TheWileyVet
- Start date
The problem with fans is that they judge the coaches on win and loss records and not on their actual coaching. People forget that Rivers was a bee's proverbial from getting fired before Ainge got him the big 3 and all of a sudden he is one of the best.
I never considered Mike Brown to be a good coach despite his great win-loss percentage. His teams won because he had arguably the best player in the league in James. Good coaches need to be looked at in the way they coach and how they get the best out of their team.
A young team like the Kings needs a coach who knows when to take control and call out plays and when to let them play through it. A coach that will give this young team some structure both offensive and defensive. We have no structure. Its a free-styling at both ends. I have said many times last year that Westphal's option should not have been picked up and we should go after Adelman. Just imagine what sort of offensive sets he could implement with this group of players?! He would utilise his best passers in Cousins and Hayes, he would utilise Cousins' post game. He would utilise Tyreke's driving ability. He would utilise Thornton's shooting and driving ability. He would make this team run its offence like a well oiled machine.
Of course that was never going to happen because a) our owners would never get Adelman back since they burnt their bridges there, b) after Mussleman, Theus and Kenny Who, Westphal looks like Phil Jackson, and c) probably most importantly as Glenn pointed out, they can't afford to pay a great coach the market price....they are broke! They can't afford to pay a great coach $5-10 million per seasons when they can have Westphal for 3 years at some $5 million in total.
We have gone on the cheap this FA period as well. In order for us to get a real coach, the Maloofs either have to get super rich super fast, or we need new owners that are willing to spend to build a genuine winner.
After watching Westphal's comments after the Chicago game, I am stunned how he has lasted this long. Players going for offensive rebounds when they had no business to do so?! WTF?!?! Then why go out and recruit players that excel at offensive rebounds!?
I think he's referring to too many guys trying to go for the board instead of getting back on D. I'm sure he doesn't mean he doesn't want anyone to try and get it, and we have players that excel at getting them so that we have a chance of getting extra possessions. But that doesn't mean everyone should be trying to go for the board, or trying to swipe at the ball in the back court. If I'm not wrong there were several times when the guards seemed to try and get the offensive board too (when the ball was long). It's also about knowing where your man is. If he's sprinting the other way leaving one or two guys to get the defensive board then you should be sprinting down with him. These guys are supposed to know when to go for the board and when to pick up their man.
TheWileyVet
Starter
Westphal is a clown. I think the biggest issue is the team has no real options for a replacement.
Look. We wanted SVG. We had him out for an interview, and while he was here, he signed with Orlando via Kinko's and a fax machine. Your post clearly stated that we passed over SVG for another coach, which did not happen. And then, when it was pointed out that this wasn't the case, you made up something about what it was that you really said, which of course wasn't at all what you actually said. And you're still doing it.
You might be surprised how much more effective "whoops, got that one wrong" is when compared to defensive sarcastic move-the-goalposts mode.
Great! Do I get to kick you off?
Hoovtrain
All-Star
I wonder how many championships Kobe and MJ would have had it not been for Phil?
kings4lyfe32
Bench
We're three games in guys. We all saw the team fight and look good against LA. And for the first 15 mins against Portland. Everyone needs to take a step back for at least a couple more weeks. I mean did we expect a 66-0 team? Still very young with a not extremely talented roster outside of a few bright spots
TehSwimGuy
Bench
I classify Adelman as successful because every year he was with the Kings, (and afterwards) he's been above .500. And where he sits in # of games won. But we ousted him because the Kings weren't championship contenders, as if it was his fault, when the real reason was we weren't paying enough for solid replacements, slowly going downhill until now we just go for 1st round draft picks, and players/coaches on the cheap.
origkds
What- Me Worry?
Lmao. He's right, you do win the internet.
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I'm not sure that Westphal's team playing in the NBA Finals is the best argument for firing him.
But Westphal didn't have a beard in 1993. Hah!!!! Sorry, you lose that round.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
I don't remember what thread contained the comment that PW made about offensive players going after rebounds and not getting back on defense. People were confused by it as was I. Some one re-interpreted that comment as perhaps meaning something else. Today in the Bee is this comment although it appears not to be direct quote: "Sometimes at fault was a post player going after an offensive rebound instead of getting back on defense."
I absolutely do not understand that. What are post players supposed to do? This is a comment made in a post game interview with PW after the Bulls loss. It sounded confusing when I first heard it and still sounds confusing. It's not worth being a big issue except this seems to be a basic concept of basketball: let the big guys rebound.
PW's brain got disengaged and if he makes more comments to his team or to the media that seem that dull, he won't make it through the end of the season whether there is an adequate replacement or not. I don't think I am over-reacting to a very dumb comment. Makes me wonder what he says behind closed doors. Imagine this very same thing being said to Daly. It's a head scratcher.
Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2011/12/31/4154035/westphal-urges-more-teamwork.html#storylink=cpy
I absolutely do not understand that. What are post players supposed to do? This is a comment made in a post game interview with PW after the Bulls loss. It sounded confusing when I first heard it and still sounds confusing. It's not worth being a big issue except this seems to be a basic concept of basketball: let the big guys rebound.
PW's brain got disengaged and if he makes more comments to his team or to the media that seem that dull, he won't make it through the end of the season whether there is an adequate replacement or not. I don't think I am over-reacting to a very dumb comment. Makes me wonder what he says behind closed doors. Imagine this very same thing being said to Daly. It's a head scratcher.
Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2011/12/31/4154035/westphal-urges-more-teamwork.html#storylink=cpy
Hoovtrain
All-Star
All we need is Barkley, KJ, Chambers, Ainge, Ceballos and Thunder Dan to run PW's sophisticated offense, and we will be right there.
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What got to me more than anything was the gambling on defense after the Bulls got the rebound. Trying to steal the ball after the rebound or on the first outlet pass is just lazy. You cannot turn around and catch up fast enough to help your team defend the break. If you want to stop a fast breaking team, try having 5 guys back on defense every time and forget the high risk stuff.
IfAt1st
Starter
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Oh no, that was part of the Suns M.O. even before Westphal got there, although I think he upped it (or so I recall -- the memory grows hazy). The idea was the old Nolan Richardson 40 minutes of hell bit transferred to the NBA. The Suns were an open court team, so they gambled and trapped and shot passing lanes, and did everything they could to scramble the game and make it a wild shootout, counting on their superior overall talent level to win out in those scenarios. They knew in a halfcourt war they couldn't beat the Bulls.
RookieOfTheDay
Starter
Anyone catch this from Tyreke? "Everybody keeps blaming the coach, about the plays, the plays not good but, hey it be like that sometime. You’ve just got to play." If I'm reading that correctly, maybe even the players are blaming the coach.
TehSwimGuy
Bench
Tyreke seems to have the mental capacity of a 10 year old. "The plays not good, but, hey it be like that sometime. You've just got to play".
Seems to me he's okay with a losing strategy.
RookieOfTheDay
Starter
To be fair, a lot of NBA players sound pretty ignorant. I didn't get that he was ok with it. What i got is that he's saying they have to find ways to win IN SPITE of the coach.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
No.
It seems he's pissed, doesn't trust the coaching staff, or the system, nor should he, and he's giving extremely limited responses instead of calling out the coach publicly right after a game.
Kobe responds like this sometimes too. Does he have the mental capacity of a 10 yr old as well?
You really seem to struggle figuring out what is going on right now.
But what else should I expect from you. You think he doesn't even want to improve as a player, well, not until you saw a tweet about him practicing ft's.
TehSwimGuy
Bench
Yup. You got me. Fantastic ad hominem
. I definitely don't think he wants to improve as a player until I saw the tweet about him practicing FT. No, he may want to, but he hasn't been improving.
And you can't really put Kobe and Evans on the same tier right now. I haven't seen anything that puts them on remotely the same level.
RookieOfTheDay
Starter
IF coaching is really the culprit here that sucks because on a personal level I really like Westphal better than any coach we've had, including Adleman. He just seems like a class act and like a genuine/sincere guy. It makes we want to root for him in spite of the growing signs that maybe he's just not the man for the job.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Yup. You got me. Fantastic ad hominem
No, he may want to, but he hasn't been improving.
And you can't really put Kobe and Evans on the same tier right now. I haven't seen anything that puts them on remotely the same level.
I don't think he was putting them on the same tier. I think he was saying that both have made similar comments. And by the way, Rainmaker has been pretty tough on Tyreke at times. I also happen to agree that I don't think Tyreke was saying he was alright with losing, but was tactfully trying to make a point without throwing Westphal under the bus. The fact that he's not good at it is another story altogether.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Yup. You got me. Fantastic ad hominem
No, he may want to, but he hasn't been improving.
And you can't really put Kobe and Evans on the same tier right now. I haven't seen anything that puts them on remotely the same level.
Ad hominem?
I called you out yesterday with a lengthy post regarding your stance on Reke not wanting to improve and the tweet, yet you didn't respond. You had your chance to respond, and didn't.
Yeah, you said Reke doesn't want to improve, and him practicing ft's "gave you hope". Yep, apparently if it wasn't tweeted, you think he isn't practicing. That's incredibly dumb. And no, you didn't refute it either.
Who put Kobe and Reke in the same tier? Are you really that stupid? Did you really think that's what I said? Did you really think I wasn't referring to how Kobe has handled the press after a bad loss without bashing his coach or teammates? Are you so incredibly new to pro sports you haven't seen how some players respond after a tough loss, and they keep it nice and short so they don't say something they'll regret?
I've said it before I think Westphal's biggest problem is the way he's using Tyreke.
From what i can tell, his style of coaching is to give the players the freedom to make their own mistakes and learn from it, and develop their own identity as a team. That's not such a bad idea IMO because we have talent, and young talent at that. I think it could benefit players like Cousins and Fredette. They appear to be intelligent players, who has the ability to learn from their mistakes and develop their game accordingly. And i think, through their own intution, they have figured out their role when they're out there on the field. That goes for most of our other players - Thornton, Thomas, JT, Hayes, et al - when it comes to learning their role even if its not specifically designated to them by the coaching staff.
The problem is when it comes to a player like Tyreke. Hate to say it but Tyreke doesn't seem like the brightest guy out there on the court. I'm starting to question his ability to learn from his own mistakes and develop in the way that, say, Cousins can develop. This is when WP's coaching is doing Reke, and ultimately, the team a disservice. I think Reke needs guidance. He needs structure; he needs to know what his role is, and what he's supposed to do. I can't see if he's able to figure out his role out there. Perhaps WP has too much faith in Tyreke's ability to fit into this freestyle gameplan.
Theres no question that he plays a big part in our team. And when that big part is looking lost and confused out there, our team's probably going to look lost and confused as well.
From what i can tell, his style of coaching is to give the players the freedom to make their own mistakes and learn from it, and develop their own identity as a team. That's not such a bad idea IMO because we have talent, and young talent at that. I think it could benefit players like Cousins and Fredette. They appear to be intelligent players, who has the ability to learn from their mistakes and develop their game accordingly. And i think, through their own intution, they have figured out their role when they're out there on the field. That goes for most of our other players - Thornton, Thomas, JT, Hayes, et al - when it comes to learning their role even if its not specifically designated to them by the coaching staff.
The problem is when it comes to a player like Tyreke. Hate to say it but Tyreke doesn't seem like the brightest guy out there on the court. I'm starting to question his ability to learn from his own mistakes and develop in the way that, say, Cousins can develop. This is when WP's coaching is doing Reke, and ultimately, the team a disservice. I think Reke needs guidance. He needs structure; he needs to know what his role is, and what he's supposed to do. I can't see if he's able to figure out his role out there. Perhaps WP has too much faith in Tyreke's ability to fit into this freestyle gameplan.
Theres no question that he plays a big part in our team. And when that big part is looking lost and confused out there, our team's probably going to look lost and confused as well.
TehSwimGuy
Bench
Wah, wah wah. Chill out, breh. Didn't even see your other post. I'll go take a look, and respond in my free time.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
You didn't miss it. You conveniently skipped right over it, and posted twice right after it.
Wah, wah, wah. Breh? Are you 12? I'm not your breh. You're now borderline trolling.
L
LWP777
Guest
LOL, what is a "Breh" anyway? I've heard of "Bro" and "Bra" before but not "Breh." All are douche bag terms BTW!
TehSwimGuy
Bench
No, I'm responding to you. You're the one that seems to be taking everything against Tyreke Evans personally.
And no, I didn't see it. I missed it. But I guess the all-knowing Rainmaker sees all, right?
