Faried on the Block

rainmaker

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...nicks-bring-in-a-pg-trade-talk-around-the-nba

He's the type who'd fit well next to Cuz. Ultimate energy/hustle guy. Rumors surround him going to NY but I'd get on the phone with Denver ASAP, which I imagine PDA already has.

And Faried is the type of player I wouldn't mind giving up JT for, or JT/IT. Leaves our PG spot in ruins but Faried is too good of a pairing for Cuz to pass up IMO.

If we could put out a

X
Ben
Gay
Faried
Cuz

Lineup, I'd perfectly willing to wait until we can get a PG to run the show and deal with losing until we do as when we do find that one last piece, a PG, that's a helluva lineup.
 
I like Faried (after all Michael "the Animal" Smith was one of my favorite Kings so I love hard nosed, effort PFs) but even with his hustle and reboundind I don't think he's a good fit next to Cousins at all.

He's undersized as a post defender, isn't a great weakside help defender, doesn't block shots and doesn't hit the midrange jumper.

Honestly I think the type of player Cousins needs next to him is a Marcus Camby or Tyson Chandler type player.
 
Jon Henson, Noah.. Those are players I would like to see next to Cousins.

Not a huge Faried fan.
 
Camby isn't a long term solution. Chandler is injured and likely won't be moved as he's such a key for NY when he returns. Ibaka would also be good but these guys are extremely tough to get. Have to work with what you have and if Faried is on the block, you go for it IMO.

Could wait years to get a Chandler type. Little chance of us actually getting a Chandler type to pair with Cuz.
 
There are a number of players in the league, for which I would pack Thompson's bags, and drive him to the airport, but Kenneth Faried isn't one of them. Forget about whether or not you think that he's a better player than Thompson, he's much worse fit next to Cousins. He can't block shots, he can't shift to center, if Cousins gets in foul trouble, and he occupies the same space on the court that Cousins does, without being able to do half as much.

rainmaker said:
... Have to work with what you have and if Faried is on the block, you go for it IMO...
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That's a horrible reason to try and trade for somebody. This isn't a fantasy team. This isn't Pokemon; we don't have to catch 'em all.
 
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
That's a horrible reason to try and get somebody. This isn't Pokemon; we don't have to catch 'em all. Doesn't fit mean anything any more?
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Of course fit means something. We just disagree on the fit.

Why would you think I'd want to trade for a guy which doesn't fit well next to Cuz?
 
I have no idea why you would, but it's pretty clear that you would. Cousins needs someone who can challenge other power bigs, and keep him out of foul trouble. Faried can't do that. Cousins needs someone who is a strong help defender, and weak side shot blocker. Faried can't do that, either.

I think that a better question would be why do you think this is not true?
 
rainmaker said:
Camby isn't a long term solution. Chandler is injured and likely won't be moved as he's such a key for NY when he returns. Ibaka would also be good but these guys are extremely tough to get. Have to work with what you have and if Faried is on the block, you go for it IMO.

Could wait years to get a Chandler type. Little chance of us actually getting a Chandler type to pair with Cuz.
Click to expand...

Obviously I meant a Camby or Chandler type player (long, athletic, shotblocker, smart defender, not a big scorer etc) and not actually Camby or Chandler at this stage of their careers.

And yeah, those types of players are very hard to get. Rarely available in trades, and have their pick of suitors in free agency for huge money. That's why you have to draft them, patiently develop them and re-sign them. It's why I was very okay with Whiteside in the 2nd round as a project. It's why I was yelling at my TV when we took Thomas Robinson instead of Andre Drummond. And it's why I watch Willie Cauley-Stein and Joel Embiid with great interest this year.
 
Faried is a lousy defender. He rebounds well like Kevin Love rebounds well, by boxing out on the weak side and not bothering to rotate to defend attempts at the rim. He is also very small for the position at 6'6", and does not have a jumper.

FWIW, if you want to use an undersized 4, Quincy Acy is taller, bigger, a much better defender, a better shot blocker, and doesn't mind playing the thug on occasion. He rebounds worse than Faried per 36, but blocks twice as many shots and can knock down midrange jumpers and three pointers. I would take Faried over Acy in most situations, but I think Acy is a better fit next to Cousins.
 
Faried is exactly the type of player that doesn't fit. I say he doesn't fit because he's a front court player that is small. This proposal is nuts.
 
Faried is 6'8. Still undersized, but no chuck Hayes undersized.

He'd certainly fit our new apparent fetish of acquiring 6'8 mega-athletes. And we'd all of a sudden become one of the top rebounding teams in the game with Gay-Faried-Cousins frontline. And his contract also runs out in a year and a half.

The idea is intriguing for sure. Yes, we all know we need Serge Ibaka next to Cousins. Problem is, those guys don't go on trees. And when someone does find a Serge Ibaka, they do their damn hardest to hold on to that player. So why not try dominating another aspect of the game? You already got a top-tier rebounding C and SF. McLemore shows tremendous rebounding potential at SG. Add in Faried and we should control the glass vs just about any team in the NBA. I've been critical of Faried's D in the past, but he has done a much better job this year. Im convinced his defensive struggles are more of how the play ball in Denver. It's not like he's unwilling either, he's the best hustle/energy player in the league.

Next issue is, do you give up IT for him? That's certainly what'd they ask for, the salaries match, and the talent is fairly equal in the trade.
 
rainmaker said:
Of course fit means something. We just disagree on the fit.

Why would you think I'd want to trade for a guy which doesn't fit well next to Cuz?
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Mr. S£im Citrus said:
I have no idea why you would, but it's pretty clear that you would. Cousins needs someone who can challenge other power bigs, and keep him out of foul trouble. Faried can't do that. Cousins needs someone who is a strong help defender, and weak side shot blocker. Faried can't do that, either.

I think that a better question would be why do you think this is not true?
Click to expand...

Scintillating conversation, guys!! For those of us who aspire to be great posters, here is how ya do it. :oops:
 
I loved watching Faried at Moorehead St and though I knew he was undersized I was disappointed in how small he measured out at the combine, because I loved his game and liked him just as a player and wanted him to have a good NBA career. There was all the pre-draft discussion on what to do with our 7th over-all pick and I would have been fine trading that pick for two later picks with one of them being used on Faried.
I felt that Faried was a guy who any team would want due to his hustle, enthusiasm, insane athleticism, and mind-set. I was very happy to see him get drafted in the 1st round and even happier for him that he's made a name for himself as an impact player.

With all that said, however, I wouldn't be in favor of having Faried starting at the PF spot along-side Cousins for many of the defensive reasons that I'm not a fan of having both Gay/Williams be our starting forwards. We need to protect Cousins as much as we can on the defensive end, and you do that by having a full-sized guy out there like JT, or ideally a full-sized shot blocker.
If we had a full-sized good PF who played defense and blocked shots to play along-side Cousins I would be perfectly happy with a 4 man rotation where Faried is our 3rd big and plays major minutes and then a 4th big who was big (Gray/Ndiaye type) that could come in for limited minutes, in the event that foul problems hit Cousins.

I love Faried, but for this team, he'd be a great big minute 3rd big, but not the ideal compliment next to Cousins.
I should also mention that this year's draft has 3 fantastic top 12 college players who are all defensive shot-blockers. I urge everyone to check out a game or two of theirs to see the possibility of drafting one of them to start along-side Cousins. These three are:
Joel Embiid of Kansas (Probably 1st taken of the defensive bigs and is Ranked 6-10)
Noah Vonleh of Indiana (Ranked 8-12)
Willie Cauley-Stein of Kentucky (Ranked 8-12)

If we don't end up with the ability to pick up a PG (Exum) or a future super-star wing (Parker/Wiggins) or a potential star offensive PF in Randle then I would be thrilled with any one of these three defensive guys and they would solidify the position next to Cousins for the foreseeable future.
 
funkykingston said:
Obviously I meant a Camby or Chandler type player (long, athletic, shotblocker, smart defender, not a big scorer etc) and not actually Camby or Chandler at this stage of their careers.
Click to expand...

Horace Grant or Larry Nance would be a nice fit, too. (type) But those type of trees don't grow on...y'know.
 
funkykingston said:
Obviously I meant a Camby or Chandler type player (long, athletic, shotblocker, smart defender, not a big scorer etc) and not actually Camby or Chandler at this stage of their careers.

And yeah, those types of players are very hard to get. Rarely available in trades, and have their pick of suitors in free agency for huge money. That's why you have to draft them, patiently develop them and re-sign them. It's why I was very okay with Whiteside in the 2nd round as a project. It's why I was yelling at my TV when we took Thomas Robinson instead of Andre Drummond. And it's why I watch Willie Cauley-Stein and Joel Embiid with great interest this year.
Click to expand...

You might take a peek at Noah Vonleh as well. He reminds me a lot of Larry Sanders, except he has a better 15 foot jumpshot. He plays for Indiana. Another kid I like plays for St. Johns. Chris Obekpa. 6'9" PF that's a shotblocking machine. Raw on the offensive side, but he'll definitely play in the NBA.
 
The_Jamal said:
Faried is 6'8. Still undersized, but no chuck Hayes undersized.

He'd certainly fit our new apparent fetish of acquiring 6'8 mega-athletes. And we'd all of a sudden become one of the top rebounding teams in the game with Gay-Faried-Cousins frontline. And his contract also runs out in a year and a half.

The idea is intriguing for sure. Yes, we all know we need Serge Ibaka next to Cousins. Problem is, those guys don't go on trees. And when someone does find a Serge Ibaka, they do their damn hardest to hold on to that player. So why not try dominating another aspect of the game? You already got a top-tier rebounding C and SF. McLemore shows tremendous rebounding potential at SG. Add in Faried and we should control the glass vs just about any team in the NBA. I've been critical of Faried's D in the past, but he has done a much better job this year. Im convinced his defensive struggles are more of how the play ball in Denver. It's not like he's unwilling either, he's the best hustle/energy player in the league.

Next issue is, do you give up IT for him? That's certainly what'd they ask for, the salaries match, and the talent is fairly equal in the trade.
Click to expand...

Well obviously we cannot give up IT for anything at the moment unless there is a PG coming back.

I'm not as anti-Faried as some here, as hustle and rebounding can take you quite a way. But I am anti Faried/Landry. Landry remains the offseason boondoggle defining all our frontcourt moves now. We've got an undersized guy coming off the injured list that the gerbil obviously intends to be a major part of the frontcourt. We've got Cousins. And so that means we've really only got one more major minute spot in the frontcourt to fill, the one currently held by JT. So whoever mystery man #3 is should be fullsized and able to swing to center when Landry comes in, and preferably be able to block a shot.
 
Bricklayer said:
Well obviously we cannot give up IT for anything at the moment unless there is a PG coming back.

I'm not as anti-Faried as some here, as hustle and rebounding can take you quite a way. But I am anti Faried/Landry. Landry remains the offseason boondoggle defining all our frontcourt moves now. We've got an undersized guy coming off the injured list that the gerbil obviously intends to be a major part of the frontcourt. We've got Cousins. And so that means we've really only got one more major minute spot in the frontcourt to fill, the one currently held by JT. So whoever mystery man #3 is should be fullsized and able to swing to center when Landry comes in, and preferably be able to block a shot.
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It's a good point to bring Landry into the discussion. You're making it far more difficult than it could be if you end up with a 3 man major minutes rotation of Cousins/Landry/Faried because Cousins is the only true big of the three. I would have no problems moving Landry in favor of Faried as our 3rd big, then moving both IT and Derrick Williams back to the bench to play along-side Faried, but it all hinges on actually having a full-sized defensive PF to start next to Cousins and a defensive/facilitating PG to push IT back to the bench. We don't have that shot-blocking big right now, though if we continue our poor play we should have the opportunity to pick up a good one in the upcoming draft.

Since it appears that PDA doesn't have a problem with trade rumors swirling around, you'd figure that he has a good grasp on Faried and what Faried can do since he has had the opportunity to watch Faried the last couple of years, so if there is interest in Faried I'm sure we'll hear about it. Again, I'd love to have him, but not as our starter, and if we brought him along we'd more than likely have to dump Landry in the process.
 
No thanks he's not even better than Landry, he's a defensive liability minus the post game and mid-range jumper he for a while has been one of the most overrated PF's in the NBA, Landry abused him with Barnes in last years playoffs I rather play Derrick Williams at the 4 than have Faried he's bigger and more skilled.

He helps us less than JT and being so overhyped will make more money when his contract is up this would be a truly terrible move. Denver realised he's not going to help them in the playoffs so they want to move him, undersized + underskilled = yawn next please there''s a reason they gave money to Hickson instead.

If we are going after a PF go after Taj Gibson/Amir Johnson/Wright/Udoh/Ed Davis these types
 
Last edited by a moderator:
rainmaker said:
Camby isn't a long term solution. Chandler is injured and likely won't be moved as he's such a key for NY when he returns. Ibaka would also be good but these guys are extremely tough to get. Have to work with what you have and if Faried is on the block, you go for it IMO.

Could wait years to get a Chandler type. Little chance of us actually getting a Chandler type to pair with Cuz.
Click to expand...

What we have is a gaping wound at the 1, which has to be the first priority. Faried isn't so good that he overrules that priority.
 
I like Faried a lot, but I don't know how we can get him at this point. I don't think I'm dealing IT for him.

But the obvious PDA connection is there. Just about every move he's made has involved some prior connection, so if Faried is going to be moved I'd expect us to be in the mix. I wouldn't be shocked to see him here.

IT / JT for Faried / Miller works for that PG back. A little veteran leadership etc, but even then - I don't know. Faried isn't the best fit next to Cousins. Great rebounder, not a very good defender. Not as good as JT on that end in my opinion.

If Denver wants to take Landry instead of Thompson I'd be much more interested. I also don't know how into Thomas Denver will be with Lawson there. Similar players, and Lawson plays a ton of minutes.

Only other piece is Derrick Williams. If he continues to play well he could theoretically up his value enough to deal him somewhere else by the deadline. And if Gay is out starting SF, I'd much rather have Faried as a power forward than Williams.
 
MassachusettsKingsFan said:
Only other piece is Derrick Williams. If he continues to play well he could theoretically up his value enough to deal him somewhere else by the deadline. And if Gay is out starting SF, I'd much rather have Faried as a power forward than Williams.
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I sure wouldn't. Williams is a better all around player by far. I want guys who have more than one or two skills
 
ShastaKingsFan said:
I sure wouldn't. Williams is a better all around player by far. I want guys who have more than one or two skills
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Generally yes, although I would take a guy who only rebounds and blocks shots at this point. I could live with a zero offense, good defense type like prime Ben Wallace next to Cousins.
 
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
A guy who only rebounds and blocks shots would be awesome! But, Faried only does one of those things.
Click to expand...

I wasn't implying otherwise. Faried is a very good rebounder for his size, but he subscribes to the Kevin Love school of rebounding: box out weak side and don't bother rotating on defense.
 
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