FA/Trade Proposal (Smart, Parker, Faried)

macadocious

macadocious

Starter
#1
#1
OK, so here is what I would do if I were the Kings right now.

1. S&T with Celtics for Marcus Smart. 4 year, 44.5MM deal, fully guaranteed on a declining salary. Starts @ 12MM in 1st year. Send most likely KK because they need a big man that plays defense, but if for some reason they wanted Temple I would do that as well. Either work.
2. Offer Jabari Parker a 4 year 52MM deal, declining. Starting at 14MM in first year. Protections for knee and a partial guarantee on the 4th season. The Bucks are hard capped and could not match that offer.
3. Stretch Z-Bo and Shump.
4. Trade Skal for Faried and top 10 protected pick from the Nuggets next year.
5. Sign Channing Fry to vet minimum


We would still have 32MM in cap space for 2020 and beyond.

Here is what our roster would look like

PG: Fox/Smart/Mason
SG: Bogi/Buddy/Temple
SF: Parker/Jackson
PF: Bagley/Faried/Fry
C: WCS/Giles
 
E

ESP47

All-Star
#2
#2
I wouldn't tie up the cap space by stretching ZBo and Shump to get Jabari Parker. He just isn't a winning basketball player. That's a lot of money tied up in a guy who will have a hand in making the team even worse defensively than it already is. This guy is a bad defender at the 4 and it's only going to be worse when you play him at the 3.
 
macadocious

macadocious

Starter
#3
#3
The stretching is to get Faried and the pick.

We have a unique opportunity where we can add two young RFAs. We should do what we can to take it. Everyone will have capspace next year, we will have to over pay even more then.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#5
#5
macadocious said:
We have a unique opportunity where we can add two young RFAs.
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History shows that one if not both will probably be matched. Unless we drastically overpay, which I would probably be ok with. Incidentally Boston had offered Smart ~12 per last season which he had already turned down. Obviously the market dictates what it dictates but I think it would take ~15 per to get him to agree to come to Sac, otherwise he takes the tender and goes unrestricted next year.
 
EIM86

EIM86

Starter
#6
#6
I think with Sac being a not so ideal destination for free agents and that next year a ton of teams will have a lot of money. Its better to sign somebody this offseason and we might as well give it a try since there is nothing to lose
 
Hoovtrain

Hoovtrain

All-Star
#7
#7
Like it, but not big on stretching anyone at this point. It’s all moot anyways, the FO is too incompetent to pull anything like this off
 
macadocious

macadocious

Starter
#8
#8
pdxKingsFan said:
History shows that one if not both will probably be matched. Unless we drastically overpay, which I would probably be ok with. Incidentally Boston had offered Smart ~12 per last season which he had already turned down. Obviously the market dictates what it dictates but I think it would take ~15 per to get him to agree to come to Sac, otherwise he takes the tender and goes unrestricted next year.
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I feel like you didn’t actually read my post...
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#9
#9
ESP47 said:
I wouldn't tie up the cap space by stretching ZBo and Shump to get Jabari Parker. He just isn't a winning basketball player. That's a lot of money tied up in a guy who will have a hand in making the team even worse defensively than it already is. This guy is a bad defender at the 4 and it's only going to be worse when you play him at the 3.
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So here's my thing with regards to a guy like Parker and why I wasn't even all that mad about Lavine overpay. The Kings are just never going to have the ability to add significant talent in FA. It's just been a complete lucky circumstance that we're even able to be linked to guys like Parker/Lavine/Smart because the market is so barren this off-season. And the fact that we're so far away from paying our core guys, a massive overpay on a Parker or Lavine isn't going to cost us a Fox/Giles down the line. I've been so adamant about making a splash signing and adding talent THIS off-season because we probably aren't going to have the chance again.

So do you bet on the talent/potential even though these guys aren't good players right now? Especially when we don't have our pick next season? Otherwise, what are else are we using our money on? Is their a real need to stay disciplined with cap when we're literally one of the bottom 3 teams for FA to come sign with?
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#10
#10
macadocious said:
I feel like you didn’t actually read my post...
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Why do you feel that way? Because I stated I can't see Smart signing a below market deal with a team that would love to keep him at that price?

That's the first domino to fall, so I kind of stopped there.
 
E

ESP47

All-Star
#11
#11
The_Jamal said:
So here's my thing with regards to a guy like Parker and why I wasn't even all that mad about Lavine overpay. The Kings are just never going to have the ability to add significant talent in FA. It's just been a complete lucky circumstance that we're even able to be linked to guys like Parker/Lavine/Smart because the market is so barren this off-season. And the fact that we're so far away from paying our core guys, a massive overpay on a Parker or Lavine isn't going to cost us a Fox/Giles down the line. I've been so adamant about making a splash signing and adding talent THIS off-season because we probably aren't going to have the chance again.

So do you bet on the talent/potential even though these guys aren't good players right now? Especially when we don't have our pick next season? Otherwise, what are else are we using our money on? Is their a real need to stay disciplined with cap when we're literally one of the bottom 3 teams for FA to come sign with?
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I get what you mean and I go back and forth on the thought of "whats the point of cap space?" for this team but in the end I just don't like the advanced stats on these players and I don't like their fit on the Kings. I'd hate to get to the point where we're like a decent 3&D player away from possibly making the playoffs and we can't acquire that player because we have Jabari Parker on the team with a big contract and he has the same effectiveness as a guy like Skal. It also leads to the Kings making poor decisions such as trading picks for cap space relief.

I'm having trouble finding effective NBA players that have scored nearly 20ppg with poor advanced stats at any point in time. I just think these players are a waste of time and a waste of cap space when there are other players out there that can do the same job for a fraction of the price. In the end, if we don't have 3 players currently on this team that don't blow up into real good solid players, it's not going to matter who they sign because none of these guys on the market are franchise players either.

Check out the CARMELO projection metrics on LaVine and Parker. I was doing my own research and figuring that these guys wouldn't amount to anything and then I found this site and the projections for these guys pretty much agreed with exactly what I was thinking.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/jabari-parker/

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/zach-lavine/

I'd rather throw way too much money at the Marcus Smarts and Kyle Andersons of the world than these guys.
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#12
#12
ESP47 said:
I get what you mean and I go back and forth on the thought of "whats the point of cap space?" for this team but in the end I just don't like the advanced stats on these players and I don't like their fit on the Kings. I'd hate to get to the point where we're like a decent 3&D player away from possibly making the playoffs and we can't acquire that player because we have Jabari Parker on the team with a big contract and he has the same effectiveness as a guy like Skal. It also leads to the Kings making poor decisions such as trading picks for cap space relief.

I'm having trouble finding effective NBA players that have scored nearly 20ppg with poor advanced stats at any point in time. I just think these players are a waste of time and a waste of cap space when there are other players out there that can do the same job for a fraction of the price. In the end, if we don't have 3 players currently on this team that don't blow up into real good solid players, it's not going to matter who they sign because none of these guys on the market are franchise players either.

Check out the CARMELO projection metrics on LaVine and Parker. I was doing my own research and figuring that these guys wouldn't amount to anything and then I found this site and the projections for these guys pretty much agreed with exactly what I was thinking.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/jabari-parker/

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/zach-lavine/

I'd rather throw way too much money at the Marcus Smarts and Kyle Andersons of the world than these guys.
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I think you would have to agree though, that despite the statistical shortcomings of Parker/Lavine (which are certainly there), that the Kings are pretty much NEVER going to get an opportunity in the foreseeable future to even talk with players with their talent/potential level at their age. I think both guys still have a pretty damn good ceiling left in them, even if they're going to be drastically overpaid for what they've produced in their careers thus far. I might be letting my Parker bias shine through a bit as I was super high on him coming out and always liked his game.

For me, this is about seizing an opportunity to add talent that fits the young core timeline when we pretty much are never going to get the opportunity to do so again once the market corrects itself by next off-season. I think that's been one of the worst qualities of Vlade as a GM; he doesn't jump on good opportunities for us to get better as a franchise when the present themselves (depleted market this off-season, Missing on the Carroll trade, Missing on the Faried trade)
 
KingsFanSince85

KingsFanSince85

All-Star
#13
#13
The_Jamal said:
The Kings are just never going to have the ability to add significant talent in FA.
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Be careful with absolutes. Because it's not truth.

Is it true considering the current state and history of the franchise? Yes. But that doesn't encompass forever.

When the Kings were good circa 2002, good players were willing to be part of the winning that was going on here. If that same team was transported into this current day and age, the Kings would certainly be an attractive destination for top FA's.

Also, not that long ago, Golden State was a pathetic franchise too and not many wanted to play there. And we all know how that narrative has changed.

Point is, if you build a winner -- and have a nice facility -- you'll be able to attract good FA's.
 
E

ESP47

All-Star
#15
#15
The_Jamal said:
I think you would have to agree though, that despite the statistical shortcomings of Parker/Lavine (which are certainly there), that the Kings are pretty much NEVER going to get an opportunity in the foreseeable future to even talk with players with their talent/potential level at their age. I think both guys still have a pretty damn good ceiling left in them, even if they're going to be drastically overpaid for what they've produced in their careers thus far. I might be letting my Parker bias shine through a bit as I was super high on him coming out and always liked his game.

For me, this is about seizing an opportunity to add talent that fits the young core timeline when we pretty much are never going to get the opportunity to do so again once the market corrects itself by next off-season. I think that's been one of the worst qualities of Vlade as a GM; he doesn't jump on good opportunities for us to get better as a franchise when the present themselves (depleted market this off-season, Missing on the Carroll trade, Missing on the Faried trade)
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I understand yours and everyone elses appeal in Parker and LaVine but I just can't get on board with guys that have career years with poor advanced metrics. Especially two guys that are looking for big contracts that have had career years with poor advanced metrics that then tear their ACLs and come off of poor to average seasons. THEN on top of all that, sign them to play out of position. So career year, poor advanced metrics, ACL tears, underwhelming comeback seasons, big contract and then play out of position which more than likely means their advanced metrics are going to be even worse than they should be. You can see why I'm weary to sign guys like that.

On the flip side, I can see the gamble because the old "what else are you going to do with the cap space?" question always looms. So far the answer to that question has been absolutely nothing while other teams are at least using their cap room to their advantage.
 
macadocious

macadocious

Starter
#17
#17
pdxKingsFan said:
No I read it and disagreed stop being obtuse.
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Then you mis-read it. You said the teams would just match.

1. If we are working on a S&T with the Celtics, then they are not matching because all parties are agreeing.

2. The contract value for Parker was structured so that Milwaukee could not match.


Now you can say none of those players would agree to those contracts and that's fine, but my point was what I would try to do if I were the front office. And all of those things would've* worked.

*My Faried trade was exactly what they did, except top 12 instead of top 10 protected.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#18
#18
macadocious said:
Then you mis-read it. You said the teams would just match.

1. If we are working on a S&T with the Celtics, then they are not matching because all parties are agreeing.
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Then you didn't read my reply which was that the Celtics offered Smart $12 million per and he declined, they are waiting to see his market value to match, but Celtics are intent on keeping him. Especially at that price. You were suggesting we could get him for a declining contract that starts at $12 million per - so less than is already on the table. That is in neither the Celtics nor Smart's interest, but naturally he'd take less to play for the Kings. Because why???

I didn't bother with the rest since step one is a fail. But nobody is overpaying Jabari. If we signed Smart to $15 million per, which would be what it takes to get him, then I would not be opposed to trying to get Jabari somehow with our remaining room.

I also think trading the players you trade is a mistake, they should be very valuable as expirings at the deadline. But I think we should keep KK.
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#19
#19
ESP47 said:
I understand yours and everyone elses appeal in Parker and LaVine but I just can't get on board with guys that have career years with poor advanced metrics. Especially two guys that are looking for big contracts that have had career years with poor advanced metrics that then tear their ACLs and come off of poor to average seasons. THEN on top of all that, sign them to play out of position. So career year, poor advanced metrics, ACL tears, underwhelming comeback seasons, big contract and then play out of position which more than likely means their advanced metrics are going to be even worse than they should be. You can see why I'm weary to sign guys like that.

On the flip side, I can see the gamble because the old "what else are you going to do with the cap space?" question always looms. So far the answer to that question has been absolutely nothing while other teams are at least using their cap room to their advantage.
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This is basically me. Because we seem to be entirely too stupid to get in on first round pick for cap space trades (seriously, Vlade's resume would look so much better if he took on Carroll and this Faried trade. Dare I say.... even kind of good?), I'm perfectly fine gambling on good talent/potential players like Parker.
 
macadocious

macadocious

Starter
#20
#20
It's a dollar amount he's been linked to recently. He was offered it in a different time that is fairly irrelevant to now. It's a number that puts Boston into the tax and if they want to keep Irving next year they will be deep into the Luxury tax and wont want to pay the repeater tax.

The S&T gives them a person A. They can use and B. on short term money and C. Keeps them under luxury tax.

What good are the expiring of Temple and KK if we aren't using them to acquire players? Who cares if it's now or 5 months from now?
 
J

joemama

Starter
#21
#21
Bulls renounced vonleh
We could sign and trade him to a team that needs a big AND has an available pg or sf.

I'm looking at you Clippers (they just signed avery bradley, why not trade us pat beverly). They are in need of another big too. They have 2 PFs listed with one beimg A Moute. This makes the DeAndre loss not so bad for them and gives us MUCH needed help at pg.

Wizards for sf? If it can save them some $.
 
J

joemama

Starter
#23
#23
Capt. Factorial said:
No, we can't. It is not allowed to sign and trade another team's free agent.
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He was renounced
So he is no longer bulls fa.

They couldn't sign parker without releasing their cap holds.

Paul Garcia @PaulGarciaNBA
To get Jabari Parker signed to ~$20 million in Year 1 of his new deal with the Bulls, CHI waived Zipser and Stone, plus, they renounced Vonleh, Nwaba, Arcidiacono. CHI still has the room exception ($4.4 million). The Spurs reportedly have interest in Nwaba.
 
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