Evans - PG or SG? And yes, it's this again...

[swisshh]

I couldn't disagree with this more.

We've seen a Beno/Tyreke, a Sergio/Tyreke, and a Beno/Sergio/Tyreke lineup on the floor.

To avoid arguments let's say that when Beno or Serio is on the floor with Tyreke that Tyreke is the SG.

Now here is the question:

When Beno or Sergio is in the lineup with Tyreke, how many baskets does Tyreke get while being set up by either Beno or Sergio? I'm not talking fast break points, I'm talking about set half-court offense.

I'd say that answer is very close to 0. If they do get an assist it is almost always from a beneath-the-basket inbounds play.

The fact of the matter is that neither Beno or Sergio get assists by setting up Tyreke in half-court sets. The reason being: Tyreke's game is not remotely suited to being an off-the-ball offensive player.

This is one of the reasons why you don't see Sergio play a lot with Tyreke on the court. Sergio isn't a great shooter, while Beno is. So Beno can benefit from Tyreke making the defense collapse on him to get good shots. Sergio on the other hand can't take as much advantage of that, and on the other side, Sergio's game doesn't really help Tyreke score either, it just takes the ball out of Tyreke's hands.

So unless Tyreke's off-the-ball game grows in leaps-and-bounds, having a pure PG along-side him does neither player any good. If you're going to bring in a smaller player along side Tyreke and negate the mismatch, that smaller player has to be a great shooter to take advantage when Tyreke draws the defense towards himself.

When I see Tyreke and Beno on the floor together, I see Tyreke set up Beno far more than Beno setting up Tyreke. This is why I usually consider Tyreke the PG when both them are playing together.

1. It's not just about Tyreke. Tyreke doesn't have to score for it to be better. It just makes it easier for him to score, easier for everyone with him at SG. If this team becomes the Sacramento Tyrekes, I'd be very disappointed. Especially with the fans. There's a huge schism between Laker fans and Kobe fans, and I don't want that crap here.

2. It's hard to give an assist to Tyreke since his *** dribbles so much. What having Beno on the floor does is balance the offense, makes the defense move and opens space. With Tyreke at PG, he not only has to bring the ball up, initiate the set, but execute the set and finish the play. This is why the offense stagnates. Beno bringing up the ball, initiating plays, and letting Tyreke attack and finish works better in the long run, since more people touch the ball, the defense has to switch, has to switch sides and is moving. Tyreke runs into walls because the offense has stayed at the top of the key for 15 seconds.

3. You are right, Tyreke doesn't play well off the ball or has much awareness offensively off the ball, but he should learn this. Kobe and Lebron and all the guys people want Tyreke to be learned to play off the ball to create more 'havoc'. He sits and watches too much without the ball. This is an area of his game that needs to improve for him to be worth the superstar label.

But even still, as I try so hard to point out, having a PG out there with Tyreke simplifies the game for him and makes the defense have to work harder. It does help him. I don't know how a section of Kings fans ignore the way the offense stutters when Tyreke is asked to do everything. It's not his game.

 

[AriesMar27]

1. It's not just about Tyreke. Tyreke doesn't have to score for it to be better. It just makes it easier for him to score, easier for everyone with him at SG. If this team becomes the Sacramento Tyrekes, I'd be very disappointed. Especially with the fans. There's a huge schism between Laker fans and Kobe fans, and I don't want that crap here.

i so dont want that to happen here... being a kings fan is the best part about being a kings fan. laker fans are mostly just kobe fans nowadays.... and they dont know anything about basketball other than the fact that kobe scores a lot and has rings... which isnt a bad thing but they know nothing about the rest of the league.

lol at the sacramento tyrekes... we were never the sacramento webbers and he is the best player to ever play for this team.

 

[ZZ-TOP]

Here is one for you

Name the last NBA team in modern era built around a PG that won the title and what does the answer says to you?

 

[Bricklayer]

1. It's not just about Tyreke. Tyreke doesn't have to score for it to be better. It just makes it easier for him to score, easier for everyone with him at SG. If this team becomes the Sacramento Tyrekes, I'd be very disappointed. Especially with the fans. There's a huge schism between Laker fans and Kobe fans, and I don't want that crap here.

There is a schism. Its called 4 titles. Something like 16 overall. And a major part of that has always been having the biggest stars.

The Lakers are the Kobes. The Heat are the Wades. And the Cavs are the Lebrons. If we have drafted somebody who can get us to the point where we are the Tyrekes in contention for a title every year like the rest, well hallelujah.

 

[VF21]

There is a schism. Its called 4 titles. Something like 16 overall. And a major part of that has always been having the biggest stars.

The Lakers are the Kobes. The Heat are the Wades. And the Cavs are the Lebrons. If we have drafted somebody who can get us to the point where we are the Tyrekes in contention for a title every year like the rest, well hallelujah.

Amen!

 

[drboiffard]

The problem with that way of thinking about Tyreke it's that if being the Tyrekes means being as good as the Brandon Roys, Kings won't be able to win a PO series. I always say the same but I have too clearly in mind last season Blazers ****ty performance at PO with a Roy-centered offense, and it was very hard because I was very hyped on that young team during the season.

Don't lie yourselves. All the "you need a superstar to win the ring" statements are obviously true, but it doesn't imply a 1:1 relationship with "let the superstar throw everything and you win the title". That's absolutely false.

When Kobe goes all-star and makes 30+ points with pretty ****ty percentages Lakers usually lose. Kobe hasn't win anything by himself without Shaq or Gasol, and even there was a year in wich they didn't get into the PO. The LeBrons and the Wades still haven't win a ring neither. And other great selfish players as Iverson ...well, we can continue ad infinitum.


As long as these Kings reminds me too much the Blazers from two years ago...well, I can only hope that Tyreke develops into a better team player than Roy.If you talk with some true Blazers fans, those like many of here are supporting the team in the good times and in the bad times, they start to complaining about Roy being so selfish and the Blazers being so Roy-centered and how it affects the team performance.

 

[casspion]

Would it perhaps not be any coincidence that you are both coming in off of a Slovenian IP address?

all this suspiciousness or oversensitivity is getting to be annoying. So what if they post from a Slovenian, Iraqi or Armenian IP?

 

[Kingsguy881]

There is a schism. Its called 4 titles. Something like 16 overall. And a major part of that has always been having the biggest stars.

The Lakers are the Kobes. The Heat are the Wades. And the Cavs are the Lebrons. If we have drafted somebody who can get us to the point where we are the Tyrekes in contention for a title every year like the rest, well hallelujah.

I know, like that's a big problem to have

Great point, wins and losses will always trump who plays what position even if they don't fit the classic definition of that position.

 

[Kingsguy881]

The problem with that way of thinking about Tyreke it's that if being the Tyrekes means being as good as the Brandon Roys, Kings won't be able to win a PO series. I always say the same but I have too clearly in mind last season Blazers ****ty performance at PO with a Roy-centered offense, and it was very hard because I was very hyped on that young team during the season.

Don't lie yourselves. All the "you need a superstar to win the ring" statements are obviously true, but it doesn't imply a 1:1 relationship with "let the superstar throw everything and you win the title". That's absolutely false.

When Kobe goes all-star and makes 30+ points with pretty ****ty percentages Lakers usually lose. Kobe hasn't win anything by himself without Shaq or Gasol, and even there was a year in wich they didn't get into the PO. The LeBrons and the Wades still haven't win a ring neither. And other great selfish players as Iverson ...well, we can continue ad infinitum.


As long as these Kings reminds me too much the Blazers from two years ago...well, I can only hope that Tyreke develops into a better team player than Roy.If you talk with some true Blazers fans, those like many of here are supporting the team in the good times and in the bad times, they start to complaining about Roy being so selfish and the Blazers being so Roy-centered and how it affects the team performance.

Love the Roy example, for the simple fact that Oden was supposed to be the primary and he is just not panning out. Hence your argument is refuted, they rode Roy to where they got because Aldridge shriveled up and Oden is not who they thought he was.

 

[VF21]

all this suspiciousness or oversensitivity is getting to be annoying. So what if they post from a Slovenian, Iraqi or Armenian IP?

Oh don't even bring up annoying.

A lot of us have been Kings fans from the very beginning of the Sacramento franchise. And, as the team has become more popular, more and more fans have come here, which is great.

But there's a downside. Every time we get an international player on the team, it seems like we get a small contingency of fans who aren't here about the Kings. They're here because their national player - be it Peja or Hedo or whomever - is wearing the Kings uniform.

Most of our international fans blend in quite nicely, but on occasion we get the one or two who want to make it all about their guy in every single thread. And THAT'S annoying.

That comment was made days ago. I think it's pretty interesting that you're bringing it up now. And I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill...

 

[drboiffard]

Love the Roy example, for the simple fact that Oden was supposed to be the primary and he is just not panning out. Hence your argument is refuted, they rode Roy to where they got because Aldridge shriveled up and Oden is not who they thought he was.

I understand you're talking about the Kings and the Blazers from two-years ago comparision. Not about how the Blazers sucked at PO having a 2nd file all-star guard centered offense. That is more important and is the on-topic thing.

 

[Tetsujin]

I understand you're talking about the Kings and the Blazers from two-years ago comparision. Not about how the Blazers sucked at PO having a 2nd file all-star guard centered offense. That is more important and is the on-topic thing.

The thing is that Evans is as good as Roy right now. There's still no telling how good he can become in a few years.

 

[ZZ-TOP]

At least professionals at ESPN are starting to see the light.
Check out Rekes playing position.
http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/scoreboard

 

[Tetsujin]

At least professionals at ESPN are starting to see the light.
Check out Rekes playing position.
http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/scoreboard

The "professionals" at ESPN also were using a picture of Oran Green as the picture of Donte Greene for a while.

 

[ZZ-TOP]

The "professionals" at ESPN also were using a picture of Oran Green as the picture of Donte Greene for a while.

I don't care what you are thinking about them. They still get payed for what they are doing.

 

[VF21]

At least professionals at ESPN are starting to see the light.
Check out Rekes playing position.
http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/scoreboard

Those "professionals" are lackeys, the lowest people on the totem pole. You think the top folk actually post the trivial stuff?

IIRC, this is the same group of "professionals" that had Kevin Martin credited with an assist a few games back.

I don't care what you are thinking about them. They still get payed for what they are doing.

Not always. Some of the people who do that kind of grunt work are unpaid interns. Just so you know.

 

[ZZ-TOP]

Those "professionals" are lackeys, the lowest people on the totem pole. You think the top folk actually post the trivial stuff?

IIRC, this is the same group of "professionals" that had Kevin Martin credited with an assist a few games back.

That is even worst. So even they see Evans as a SG.

 

[VF21]

That is even worst. So even they see Evans as a SG.

Let's see what they say tonight. My best guess is that it's a typo... I know you're really trying to prove that Evans isn't a PG, but I just don't think this is gonna change the tide, you know?

 

[ZZ-TOP]

Let's see what they say tonight. My best guess is that it's a typo... I know you're really trying to prove that Evans isn't a PG, but I just don't think this is gonna change the tide, you know?

I don't care about the tide.
Evans can play PG all he wants. He can be coached by whatever coach in the world. His talent will never be utilized in the best way till he does. His natural position is at SG.
And there is no force on earth for me to change my mind.

 

[AriesMar27]

I don't care about the tide.
Evans can play PG all he wants. He can be coached by whatever coach in the world. His talent will never be utilized in the best way till he does. His natural position is at SG.
And there is no force on earth for me to change my mind.

aries is that you? wait... im ariesmar27, stop trying to steal my swag....

 

[VF21]

aries is that you? wait... im ariesmar27, stop trying to steal my swag....

Maybe you should change your signature...

"AriesMar27 - the one and only. Accept no substitutions or imitations."

 

[M_Barragan]

Yall know he's a combo right? He aint one or the other. SG and PG are just two letters put infront of players at intro in this NBA.

Positions don't mean what they used to now. Iunno tho im just 25 and this NBA is all I have ever seen. While some people here still remember the old days where players fit the perfect mold.

News Flash.... it aint like that no moe... no moe.

 

[Asaf]

Yall know he's a combo right? He aint one or the other. SG and PG are just two letters put infront of players at intro in this NBA.

Positions don't mean what they used to now. Iunno tho im just 25 and this NBA is all I have ever seen. While some people here still remember the old days where players fit the perfect mold.

News Flash.... it aint like that no moe... no moe.

Yes, that was discussed earlier in the thread. We just haven't figured out yet if he's the combo with fries and a fountain drink or the one with two free tacos. We'll get back to you on that...

 

[VF21]

Yall know he's a combo right? He aint one or the other. SG and PG are just two letters put infront of players at intro in this NBA.

Positions don't mean what they used to now. Iunno tho im just 25 and this NBA is all I have ever seen. While some people here still remember the old days where players fit the perfect mold.

News Flash.... it aint like that no moe... no moe.

I do remember the old days when it was just "guard," "forward," and "center." The other stuff came later...

It's my somewhat jaded opinion that those who are still arguing about whether or not he's a PG or a SG are just not wanting to accept that it doesn't matter what the one letter is. What matters is that he's got an incredible amount of talent and I'm pretty sure Petrie can build a team around him.

 

[AriesMar27]

I do remember the old days when it was just "guard," "forward," and "center." The other stuff came later...

It's my somewhat jaded opinion that those who are still arguing about whether or not he's a PG or a SG are just not wanting to accept that it doesn't matter what the one letter is. What matters is that he's got an incredible amount of talent and I'm pretty sure Petrie can build a team around him.

well i dont think that anyone here thinks that he is a bad player, we are all pretty much in agreement that he is a good player. we are just debating or arguing about what position he should be playing. each side has the opinion of what advantages come with playing each position and we go from there. but no matter how much we argue we are all arguing about how we think this team will be come better.

some see him as a sg, so means that martin will have to go... which sucks. some see him as a pg, that also means that martin will have to go... which makes no sense. if it were as simple as 2 guards, 2 forwards and a center we wouldnt be having this conversation. he's definitely a guard, though whose to say he cant play sf?

his inability to play off the ball sucks though... how much easier would it be for him if he could be set up for easy buckets?

 

[Tetsujin]

I do remember the old days when it was just "guard," "forward," and "center." The other stuff came later...

It's my somewhat jaded opinion that those who are still arguing about whether or not he's a PG or a SG are just not wanting to accept that it doesn't matter what the one letter is. What matters is that he's got an incredible amount of talent and I'm pretty sure Petrie can build a team around him.

Still should have drafted Voldemort.

 

[AriesMar27]

Still should have drafted Voldemort.

we definitely wouldnt be having this discussion... he is definitely a wizard(lol)... or wouldve been if washington hadnt traded their pick.

 

[Bricklayer]

I don't care about the tide.
Evans can play PG all he wants. He can be coached by whatever coach in the world. His talent will never be utilized in the best way till he does. His natural position is at SG.
And there is no force on earth for me to change my mind.

Then there really is not much point in "discussing" it any longer is there? Your position is known, and filed in the appropriate receptacle, and you aren't going to really contribute anything new to the discussion. Worse yet, you are incapable of learning anything from the discussion. So if the sky is red in your world, well, sucks to be you, but not much point in discussing its blueness.

 

[Tetsujin]

we definitely wouldnt be having this discussion... he is definitely a wizard(lol)... or wouldve been if washington hadnt traded their pick.

How much do you think they regret trading that pick now that both of their PGs are involved in Gun-In-Locker-Gate?

 

[casspion]

Oh don't even bring up annoying.

A lot of us have been Kings fans from the very beginning of the Sacramento franchise. And, as the team has become more popular, more and more fans have come here, which is great.

But there's a downside. Every time we get an international player on the team, it seems like we get a small contingency of fans who aren't here about the Kings. They're here because their national player - be it Peja or Hedo or whomever - is wearing the Kings uniform.

Most of our international fans blend in quite nicely, but on occasion we get the one or two who want to make it all about their guy in every single thread. And THAT'S annoying.

That comment was made days ago. I think it's pretty interesting that you're bringing it up now. And I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill...

How about just addressing the statement/argument without judging the poster like some usual suspect. Besides the games of the teams I follow I also watch hundreds of other NBA games every season.I don't need you to treat me like some retard " your a Casspi fan your a casspi fan. It's about the team." really? I thought it's tennis. I didn't pay any attention to the date of the post. I just read it. All these assumptions.