HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
If there isn't then it was either an incredibly ballsy or stupid move. Or both.
Evans for Vasquez
- Thread starter Uncia03
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Claims to this kind of authority when it comes to something as simple as basketball are always ridiculous. David Kahn was a GM last year, would you have been posting the same thing for him? Another lawyer turned GM. What about Bryan Colangelo? From a whole family of GMs.
There are 30 NBA GMS at any one time. A good 10 of them are borderline incompetent. Normally a handful flat out incompetent at any one time. Saying oh, he's an NBA GM, he must know his stuff! Flies blatantly in the face of all contrary evidence. Hiring GMs is as much art as science. There is no such thing as a sure thing. We have the least experienced GM in the entire NBA. His reputation and right to respect is being formulated right here, right now.
AaronPDX
Bench
Point being, GMs GENERALLY know more than "Bob from Lodi" or "Jim from Roseville." We have NO CLUE what's going on, and why should we? We are JOE SPORTS FAN. To outwardly criticize a process that's yet to be completed is ridiculous at best. David Kahn is an idiot. I know his brother and his father and they're idiots, too. lol
The POTUS is a sports fan too. Just saying.
'89 Kings Fan
Bench
You're not going to convince me that out of the other 29 teams, only the Pelicans wanted him at 11 million. The moment we drafted Ben McLemore, we should have been aggressively shopping Tyreke. Instead we got a deal put together by Arn Teller.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
yes actually it is.
Being an NBA GM is barely even professional, with half the hires coming from a good ole boys network of friends and family, ex players, whatever. There is not even a remote sniff of these guys being the best in the world. Nor mind you is there any particular body of knowledge they possess that others do not. There is a certain level of procedural stuff in the background -- they know the managing procedures. But the core of their job? Governed by a set of rules laid out in the Collective Bargaining Agreement, which is freely available online and known nearly by heart by thousands if not millions of amateur GMs. The NBA guys know the game of basketball, as do millions of fans, many of whom have played or coached it themselves. Then they watch games and make talent assessments. The mechanics of their position they know better than we do -- criticizing PDA for how he runs a scouting meeting would be silly, because that's specialized procedural knowledge he has that we do not. But then again your secretary knows the mechanics of her position better than you do too. But skillwise? Knowledgewise? There is almost nothing to distinguish Joe GM form Joe rabid fan who follows the league closely.
Its a far cry from lawyers or doctors or computer engineers or anybody else who is owed deference because they sit atop a huge pile of arcane knowledge which they have studied, and you know nothing about. Many of us know basketball. We know the cap rules. We have watched and assessed the players. Many of us have been right on the big issues of who to draft, or whether to pull a trade, more often than the GMs getting paid to do it. You would almost never say that about a random person assessing a legal case.
P.S. I do agree with you on the point that you have to wait for the process to complete before judging. But that's not some magic I never ever get to judge because this tool has wasted 5 years rebuilding crap. I am referring to the Reke transaction. For all intents and purposes I consider the use of the cap room as part of this trade. Its Tyreke for Vasquez PLUS...we don't know.
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OnYouLikeGlue
Bench
Comparing Tyrekes value to Vazquezs value misrepresents the whole transaction. You need to compare Vazquezs value to the value of getting nothing in return, because like it or not Tyreke was gone.
OnYouLikeGlue
Bench
Baja, I'm not walking around it -- I'm staring that fact right in the face and I'm pissed off about it!That's what all of this is about. I barely got any sleep last night. I keep hoping that there might come a day when my favorite basketball team starts to build a team around what I consider to be a good, fundamental, winning style of play. Because I want to see a Kings championship before I die. From my standpoint, the chances of that happening just got postponed another 5 plus years. Yes I get it, I'm overreacting. The front office is going to do whatever they want regardless of what I think. That's all fine. But I reserve the right to be upset about it, especially when we're losing games in the playoffs because our perimeter defense remains a mess and our jumpshots aren't falling. If this is the prelude to a series of moves which make us an elite defensive team I'll backpedal appropriately. Right now I'm not a happy Kings fan though.
Running in circles would be restating things that I've already said 5 different ways -- talking about why Vasquez for Evans at PG is a huge blow to our hopes of improving our defense and doesn't necessarily make us better offensively either. We had that argument already, a lot of people agree and a lot of people don't. All I'm talking about now is the reality of the financial situation which is twofold: (1) We could have paid Evans and still had plenty of cap space to fill out our need for frontcourt depth and a starter at SF and (2) We didn't just buy into an exciting, young, elite PG who is coveted around the league and required a massive talent dump to acquire, we picked up an expiring rookie deal that New Orleans was shopping for cap space. Just like Petrie's brilliant mid-season acquisition of two players who are no longer on the roster and another who is exprining next season for our #5 overall pick. Sometimes you have to look beyond just the names to see what is really going on.
*One can only hope we are losing in the playoffs, one step at a time. And why do people think they are amassing a perimeter oriented team when they clearly want Cousins as the focal point? I dont get it.
*We wouldnt have had plenty of capspace without using the amnesty on Salmons. I think they would do that if necessary, but you also have to realize if you amnesty Salmons you are losing an asset since his expiring contract will be worth something nearer to the trade deadline. You have to think ahead with situations like that.
*And who is this ELITE PG you're speaking of? And who is coveting him besides the Pelicans? Because they were the only team to have reported to have offered him a contract.
*And we didnt pick up an expiring rookie deal, the team will have an option they can pick up for next season on Vazquez.
OnYouLikeGlue
Bench
Why do you think they would want Withey when they just had the opportunity to draft him but passed?
OnYouLikeGlue
Bench
Took this long for this possibility to dawn on you?
Yes I do. Guys like Capt and Section101 can tell you as much about the CBA as an average GM could. And you're misunderstanding me if you think I'm saying normal people get called up to be GMs. My point is that "Bob from Galt" would probably do a better job if he were randomly thrown into the role of GM than if he were randomly thrown into the role of a lawyer or surgeon or banker or accountant etc etc.
rexb_kings
Bench
Vasquez has a nice stroke and can shoot it from the outside. Kings version of the Warrior's splash brothers? Vasquez and McClemore
AaronPDX
Bench
Mac, I guess we'll agree to disagree. The NBA front office requires a business acumen that the average Joe couldn't even begin to comprehend, it's not some silly PG movie where people just make guesses and take chances and everything falls into place. I respect your opinion, I simply disagree.
Arco Arena
Bench
Uh, I shouldn't have to convince you, it just happened.
He met with 4 teams. He got 1 offer.
If there was another team that wanted Tyreke at 11 million it would have surely been leaked by Tyreke's camp, they certainly aren't shy about sharing.
TheWileyVet
Starter
I'm fuggin pissed
TheWileyVet
Starter
Not only did we trade our best player, we got garbage value. GV and 2 2nds la dee frickin da. Hope to God GV turns out like the new FO hopes.
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TheWileyVet
Starter
Might as well give Cuz the max now. We basically have to so there's no point in letting any sort of drama build. Keep the big man happy and work on building around him. Even if he never turns out to be the superstar like we all want he won't be unmovable.
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Arco Arena
Bench
This was not a straight up trade. This was Tyreke taking an offer that the Kings didn't want to pay, so rather than have him walk for nothing they worked out a S&T to receive some assets.
TheWileyVet
Starter
Jeepers mister, thanks for pointing that out!
Arco Arena
Bench
Good, you didn't seem to understand that was all we could get for him at this point. Glad that cleared it up for you, buddy.
Mass
Starter
Actually our best player wears #15 and he's still part of the team.
TheWileyVet
Starter
Potential? Yes. And technically now that #13 is gone you're correct. But I'm not 100% sure Cuz was the best player last season.
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Mass
Starter
Cuz is the only player we had last year who can be a franchise player. Evans is good, but you don't build a team around him. And big men are much more valuable then guards. Of course everyone has his own opinion, but I believe Cuz was our best player last year and I hope he will be for the next 10.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
The problem is that only one big man in history has ever won it himself (Hakeem, after 10 years of failing, for one season, in Houston). That's not just a big man thing. No little man star has ever done it alone either, not even one so great as LeBron. I believe very strongly in Cousins' ability. I quite literally think he is a potential HOFer, that's how much I believe in his talent. But even if he is every bit that good...nobody has ever been THAT good. In order to consistently win, he will need one or more all star calber teammates, same as everybody else has needed. Duncan needed Admiral, and then Parker and Manu. Shaq needed Kobe or Wade, Hakeem had that one year, squeaked in, by next year it was Drexler. I suppose we oculd credit Dirk for the freaky run a couple of years ago, but that again was just flukey -- what were they, the 6th seed? Got hot. Stacked to the gills with veterans and a future HOF running mate of course.
Anyway. In Sacramento Kings history I think we have had, in 27 years...5 All Stars? Richmond, Webber, Divac (once), Miller (once) Peja? Neither Divac or Miller were really of that caliber, and we wouldn't have had Webber were it not for Richmond. So when you are Sacramento and you trade away your single best hope for developing an All Star next to your center you have very VERY scant history of being able to come up with those guys. Its hard for anyone, its very very hard for Sacramento. And if the center is ready to come online now, we may never in his career again have a pick so high as the one we took Reke with in the first place. And that's the rub here. Special talents don't come to Sacto but once a decade or so. When you toss one aside...I am deeply deeply hoping here that there is a major talent coming back with that capspace.
The thing is, it's not over yet. We need to see how this unfolds. Tyreke is a special player but how do you fit him in? I don't mean to run him down, I love Tyreke but he's undersized for the three and no reliable outside shot. Normal position would be the two but he can't hit the outside shot you expect from a sg. Doesn't learn the plays and holds on to the ball to long to be a good pg imo.
His main value is achieved by putting the ball in his hands and letting him do his thing but when you do, nobody else is involved.
I'm not against this trade yet but I don't think Vasquez is equal value either. We have no idea what the big picture looks like yet and I can't wait to see how it unfolds. I do believe there's a plan in place and they know what they're doing.
Make it happen Pete!
His main value is achieved by putting the ball in his hands and letting him do his thing but when you do, nobody else is involved.
I'm not against this trade yet but I don't think Vasquez is equal value either. We have no idea what the big picture looks like yet and I can't wait to see how it unfolds. I do believe there's a plan in place and they know what they're doing.
Make it happen Pete!
Wait what? You know this because ... you saw everybody else executing something while Tyreke wasn't?
'89 Kings Fan
Bench
You missed my point. If we didn't intend to match, then Tyreke shouldn't have been out there fishing for a contract. We should have been calling every team trying to make a deal. Instead our plan was just to let him walk.
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