Huerter likely starting when cleared

[ShastaKingsFan]

I didn't say that did I? I think Huerter is still a good player that's very valuable and ultimately Brown thinks him starting gives us the best chance to win. I sincerely doubt that Monte and Brown would potentially sacrifice wins if they thought Keon was the better option to start. They have a leash job wise, but it would certainly be trending in the wrong direction if we have a disappointing season.

I also think that when you bring in a DDR type and ship out a C&S threat like HB, then your remaining shooters become that much more valuable. Keegan, Huerter, Monk, Lyles, Keon all need to have good-great shooting years if we want to be a top 5 offense. DDR creating open shots doesn't really mean a whole lot if the guys he kicks to bricks them.

I think they've taken a longer view approach and have committed to the idea that they need an additional piece in trade, in order to really contend. If they complete that, then they secure their jobs. If they don't get that piece, and remain the same team that struggles to get into or out of the first round, then their jobs will become in question.

I'm of the opinion that Keon is a good catch and shoot option. He shot 40%+ last season and is known on the team as a very good shooter

 

[midtowner]

Well - I don’t think the issue of who should be getting playing time is going to be easily settled this year on the forum. Kevin works well with Domas - and the 2 of them really open up the offense.

Coach Brown has in the past staggered Fox and Domas’ minutes so that one of them is always on the floor at the same time - with Fox sitting first. It will be interesting to see how DDR affects this dynamic. Because a Monk, Huerter, DDR, Lyles Domas lineup would probably be really bad on defense.

 

[The_Jamal]

I think they've taken a longer view approach and have committed to the idea that they need an additional piece in trade, in order to really contend. If they complete that, then they secure their jobs. If they don't get that piece, and remain the same team that struggles to get into or out of the first round, then their jobs will become in question.

I'm of the opinion that Keon is a good catch and shoot option. He shot 40%+ last season and is known on the team as a very good shooter

But Keon isn't a "offensive threat" in the same way Huerter is. He doesn't force teams to gameplay for him *yet*. I'd imagine if you ask opposing coaches who they want take shots and opportunities on our team, they'd all say Keon easily over the other 4.

Huerter bends the defense by just being on the floor. He was very inconsistent last year (also hurt apparently!), but despite that, lineups still produced with him on the floor. To me, that shows defenses actively game plan and make sure to pay attention to wherever he is. They hope Keon is the one taking shots when he's on the floor.

Again, I've said I'd start Keon. But I'm fairly certain this is the rationale that Brown and co are using with starting Huerter instead. It's a bet on us having one of the best offensive starting 5s, a top 5 offense and use our defensive role players off the bench to sprinkle in.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

But Keon isn't a "offensive threat" in the same way Huerter is. He doesn't force teams to gameplay for him *yet*. I'd imagine if you ask opposing coaches who they want take shots and opportunities on our team, they'd all say Keon easily over the other 4.

Huerter bends the defense by just being on the floor. He was very inconsistent last year (also hurt apparently!), but despite that, lineups still produced with him on the floor. To me, that shows defenses actively game plan and make sure to pay attention to wherever he is. They hope Keon is the one taking shots when he's on the floor.

Again, I've said I'd start Keon. But I'm fairly certain this is the rationale that Brown and co are using with starting Huerter instead. It's a bet on us having one of the best offensive starting 5s, a top 5 offense and use our defensive role players off the bench to sprinkle in.

If teams want to leave a good 40% 3 point shooter open, I'll take my chances with that...whether he is labeled as "a threat" or not, considering his effect on the defensive side.

With Huerter starting, now the question becomes, where does their best guard defender in Keon fit into this team? We know Monk is going to get a lot of time off the bench. If Huerter had come off the bench at the 3, the fit and balance was a lot more clear

 

[SacTownKid]

James ham said Keegan Murray will guard Ant

Maybe to start. The reality is at some point Keegan is getting switched. The Wolves should be one of the best screen teams in the league. If the Kings try and "get skinny", good luck, lol. Ain't happening.

 

[funkykingston]

I agree with @The_Jamal - I don't believe Mike Brown would start Huerter to showcase him. I believe he's starting him because he gives the team the best chance to win.

The Kings went 0-5 in the preseason and didn't look great in most games other than maybe the first Warriors game. Keon was given a chance to stake his claim on a starting spot and he just didn't do it. I'm a HUGE Keon fan, but in those 5 games he shot just under 30% from three, didn't show that he'd expanded his offensive repetoire, and the team struggled to defend the three. That last point definitely isn't just on Ellis, but even as someone who absolutely thought Keon should start, I get the rationale here. Huerter creates much more gravity as a movement shooter than Ellis does and if the team is going to struggle defensively either way, you might as well lean into being elite offensively and do what you can to patch the defense as the season goes along.

 

[SacTownKid]

I agree with @The_Jamal - I don't believe Mike Brown would start Huerter to showcase him. I believe he's starting him because he gives the team the best chance to win.

The Kings went 0-5 in the preseason and didn't look great in most games other than maybe the first Warriors game. Keon was given a chance to stake his claim on a starting spot and he just didn't do it. I'm a HUGE Keon fan, but in those 5 games he shot just under 30% from three, didn't show that he'd expanded his offensive repetoire, and the team struggled to defend the three. That last point definitely isn't just on Ellis, but even as someone who absolutely thought Keon should start, I get the rationale here. Huerter creates much more gravity as a movement shooter than Ellis does and if the team is going to struggle defensively either way, you might as well lean into being elite offensively and do what you can to patch the defense as the season goes along.

Mike Brown is going Kevin because of proven results. That said, if and when the proven results fail, he'll change. That's what makes brown a good coach. And he is a GOOD coach.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I agree with @The_Jamal - I don't believe Mike Brown would start Huerter to showcase him. I believe he's starting him because he gives the team the best chance to win.

The Kings went 0-5 in the preseason and didn't look great in most games other than maybe the first Warriors game. Keon was given a chance to stake his claim on a starting spot and he just didn't do it. I'm a HUGE Keon fan, but in those 5 games he shot just under 30% from three, didn't show that he'd expanded his offensive repetoire, and the team struggled to defend the three. That last point definitely isn't just on Ellis, but even as someone who absolutely thought Keon should start, I get the rationale here. Huerter creates much more gravity as a movement shooter than Ellis does and if the team is going to struggle defensively either way, you might as well lean into being elite offensively and do what you can to patch the defense as the season goes along.

So apparently the preseason is very important. They're going to look more at those 5 exhibition games, than what happened last season? Are we going to call him a 28% shooter at this point because of a short stint in preseason, instead of the 40%+ he produced in real NBA games?

There's no way the team is the same defensively with Huerter in place of Ellis

 

[The_Jamal]

If teams want to leave a good 40% 3 point shooter open, I'll take my chances with that...whether he is labeled as "a threat" or not, considering his effect on the defensive side.

With Huerter starting, now the question becomes, where does their best guard defender in Keon fit into this team? We know Monk is going to get a lot of time off the bench. If Huerter had come off the bench at the 3, the fit and balance was a lot more clear

Why are you arguing with me lol? I've said I'd start Keon if I were the coach for a lot of the reasons you've laid out. I think most on this forum would. I'm basically just trying to lay out the case for why Brown and co are going Huerter and it's still a good basketball decision, as long as Brown doesn't stay stuck if it's not working. A moment that stood out in the preseason that stood out to me (and possibly Brown) was in that first Warriors game where DDR collapsed the defense 3 times over the course of a half, got a wide open 3 for Keon.. in which he bricked all 3 of them. Obviously, not indicative of anything with regards to Keon's shooting talent, but I do feel like those sort of plays/moments matter to a coach if they're trying to decide between 2 guys.

Keon and Huerter are not treated the same offensively. Again, there's a massive difference in a player like Huerter's shooting where he bends defenses and forces a game plan on how to defend him. I think that's why despite the down year for him last year, our starting unit was still incredibly successful and rates wise, was still better than Monk or Keon subbing in for him. Is what it is, that's what the lineup data was last year. And truly, we're going to have a stupid amount of open C&S opportunities with how much rim pressure Fox/Domas/DDR put on a defense. The other guys on the floor just HAVE to hit those shots on the kick-out if we want to be a top 5 offense and be a real playoff contender. It's the only way the lackluster-ish spacing between our 3 main offensive hubs can work.

 

[The_Jamal]

I agree with @The_Jamal - I don't believe Mike Brown would start Huerter to showcase him. I believe he's starting him because he gives the team the best chance to win.

The Kings went 0-5 in the preseason and didn't look great in most games other than maybe the first Warriors game. Keon was given a chance to stake his claim on a starting spot and he just didn't do it. I'm a HUGE Keon fan, but in those 5 games he shot just under 30% from three, didn't show that he'd expanded his offensive repetoire, and the team struggled to defend the three. That last point definitely isn't just on Ellis, but even as someone who absolutely thought Keon should start, I get the rationale here. Huerter creates much more gravity as a movement shooter than Ellis does and if the team is going to struggle defensively either way, you might as well lean into being elite offensively and do what you can to patch the defense as the season goes along.

I also sort of get the idea of "Let's establish a top 5 offense, again, first" and then cycle in the defense after that. Because us being 17th defensively won't matter if we're 12th on on offense; this team simply has to be a dominant offensive club to compete for 50+ wins. Now, us being 17th defensively as a top 3 offense? That's where you start talking about winning a couple playoff series.

 

[Caccia]

And truly, we're going to have a stupid amount of open C&S opportunities with how much rim pressure Fox/Domas/DDR put on a defense. The other guys on the floor just HAVE to hit those shots on the kick-out if we want to be a top 5 offense and be a real playoff contender. It's the only way the lackluster-ish spacing between our 3 main offensive hubs can work.

There's the rub, in a nutshell.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Mike Brown is going Kevin because of proven results. That said, if and when the proven results fail, he'll change. That's what makes brown a good coach. And he is a GOOD coach.

They lost in the first round, after having a good offensive regular season. Those are the results.

If they actually are serious about contending, I don't see Huerter as being part of that starting unit. My money is on them not thinking he is either and are still looking to trade him for a more valuable piece that fits with this roster and does make them a real contender. Lets not forget that they announced him as available along with Barnes and Mitchell, before the last dead line.

Maybe some didn't think that Mitchell was being "showcased" when he suddenly started playing ahead of Keon again, after coming back from injury, because "there's no way the team would chance a worse record, in order to try to trade somebody". Well, yes I believe they did.

 

[TaxMan]

9 times out of 10, the idea of ‘showcasing’ a player is simply just fans that dislike the player looking for some answer for the playtime. I really don’t believe on game one of the season Monte and Brown are already plotting to increase Huerters trade value. I suspect Brown just believes we at at our best when Huerter is drilling his threes. His shot must be looking pretty good in practice or this doesn’t happen.

 

[Padrino]

9 times out of 10, the idea of ‘showcasing’ a player is simply just fans that dislike the player looking for some answer for the playtime. I really don’t believe on game one of the season Monte and Brown are already plotting to increase Huerters trade value. I suspect Brown just believes we at at our best when Huerter is drilling his threes. His shot must be looking pretty good in practice or this doesn’t happen.

Yeah, "showcasing" is a pretty overblown notion amongst fans and media members. Does it happen? To some degree, I'm sure it does, particularly before the trade deadline. But for winning teams at the start of the season in the playoff hunt who are trying to maximize their best units, I'd hazard to guess that the idea of "showcasing" any of their players is very far from the top of their minds.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

9 times out of 10, the idea of ‘showcasing’ a player is simply just fans that dislike the player looking for some answer for the playtime. I really don’t believe on game one of the season Monte and Brown are already plotting to increase Huerters trade value. I suspect Brown just believes we at at our best when Huerter is drilling his threes. His shot must be looking pretty good in practice or this doesn’t happen.

They've been looking to trade him since before the last deadline through the summer

 

[Padrino]

They've been looking to trade him since before the last deadline through the summer

He's reportedly been on the block. But that doesn't mean they're looking to "showcase" him now. What purpose would that serve? It's unlikely that the Kings have any interest in swinging an early season trade before they know anything about how the newly-configured rotation will hold up.

 

[The_Jamal]

He's reportedly been on the block. But that doesn't mean they're looking to "showcase" him now. What purpose would that serve? It's unlikely that the Kings have any interest in swinging an early season trade before they know anything about how the newly-configured rotation will hold up.

"showcase" to me has always been players on bad teams, near the trade deadline. Not on a good team, at the start of a season with a FO/coaching staff that's in a win-now window. Even with the recent extensions to Brown and Monte, they know that if they aren't making progress within 2 years, they're gone. If they actually thought Keon was better for wins, he'd be starting. There's no shot they're sacrificing potential wins and a "better lineup" just to up Huerter's trade value. It's just not how coaches operate.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

"showcase" to me has always been players on bad teams, near the trade deadline. Not on a good team, at the start of a season with a FO/coaching staff that's in a win-now window. Even with the recent extensions to Brown and Monte, they know that if they aren't making progress within 2 years, they're gone. If they actually thought Keon was better for wins, he'd be starting. There's no shot they're sacrificing potential wins and a "better lineup" just to up Huerter's trade value. It's just not how coaches operate.

Choose a different description then, if you prefer. How about hoping to boost his value back to where it was, before last season, with starter value.

If guys happened to play good ahead of him early in the season, he could have potentially get a lot fewer minutes off the bench. Now Keon is potentially in this position, but to them he can wait and be patient, because he doesn't have a big contract and they haven't been looking to shop him.

 

[Turgenev]

I prefer Keon in the starting lineup but I will acknowledge that 1) it is not an apples to apples comparison and they have distinct skills, and 2) my preference for the defensive guy has been framed by years of watching the Kings give up 120+ points on 500+ shooting game after game. I hope Keon still gets enough playing time to impact the game.

 

[The Effort Police]

Yeah, I don't like this after seeing it.

What happens if you sign DDR to play the role Barnes did last year with the higher usage befitting an all-star? What's that do to the guy who's only value is provided if he's taking and making shots? No coincidence that Huerter only took 4 shots tonight, and the first one he shot deep into the second quarter he was looking like he'd never see the ball again.

This much usage in the starting lineup, fifth starter needs to a low usage defensive player comfortable with 6 PPG hitting a three or two.

 

[PorchSurfin]

James ham said Keegan Murray will guard Ant

Is that why Randle kicked our ass in the 1st half?

 

[PorchSurfin]

I agree with @The_Jamal - I don't believe Mike Brown would start Huerter to showcase him. I believe he's starting him because he gives the team the best chance to win.

The Kings went 0-5 in the preseason and didn't look great in most games other than maybe the first Warriors game. Keon was given a chance to stake his claim on a starting spot and he just didn't do it. I'm a HUGE Keon fan, but in those 5 games he shot just under 30% from three, didn't show that he'd expanded his offensive repetoire, and the team struggled to defend the three. That last point definitely isn't just on Ellis, but even as someone who absolutely thought Keon should start, I get the rationale here. Huerter creates much more gravity as a movement shooter than Ellis does and if the team is going to struggle defensively either way, you might as well lean into being elite offensively and do what you can to patch the defense as the season goes along.

Ok so what if he "creates more gravity as a shooter" but can't hit a damn shot to save his ginger colored headband? How does that make him more effective than a defensive stalwart who shot ~avg~ as everyone else in the preseason? Are we to expect Huerter would have been the shining star in preseason if he played?

The whole team struggled shooting in preseason, if Huerter played we would assume he would have been the outlier?

Huerter sucks. He has since he competed in the 3pt contest. Accept it and move on. Mike needs to.

 

[TaxMan]

Choose a different description then, if you prefer. How about hoping to boost his value back to where it was, before last season, with starter value.

If guys happened to play good ahead of him early in the season, he could have potentially get a lot fewer minutes off the bench. Now Keon is potentially in this position, but to them he can wait and be patient, because he doesn't have a big contract and they haven't been looking to shop him.

I would wager to guess if Huerter comes out playing like he did two years ago, they will not trade him. A showcase implies they are playing him only to generate some trade value.

 

[SacTownKid]

Is that why Randle kicked our ass in the 1st half?

Randle had it going whether Keegan was on him or not.

 

[Hoovtrain]

Other than spacing, which does not seem to be as effective as it once was , not sure what he’s done to earn a starting spot over Ellis

 

[upinsmoke]

Other than spacing, which does not seem to be as effective as it once was , not sure what he’s done to earn a starting spot over Ellis

Nothing, he must have one hell of an agent or Brown is straight up messing things up with his stubbornness. We need Huerter to ball out but it's going to have to in a reserve roll for any sort of success.

 

[BenchMob]

Is that why Randle kicked our ass in the 1st half?

Yeah that is where our size will bite us in the butt. DDR was on him in the first half but could not size up to him. Looks like they switched Keegan to him in the 2nd half but then who will guard Ant? Thats where I think Keon should start. I love Kvon but it looked like to me Domas was not facilitating at all, and it zeros out Kvon DHO, could be the matchup though.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Other than spacing, which does not seem to be as effective as it once was , not sure what he’s done to earn a starting spot over Ellis

He's getting paid 16.83 million this season. Keon is getting paid just 2.12 million. That is a big factor

 

[TheMobb]

Other than spacing, which does not seem to be as effective as it once was , not sure what he’s done to earn a starting spot over Ellis

I think he will still provide spacing and gravity that Keon doesn’t just yet. Teams will respect Huerters shot, whereas they will dare Keon to beat them until he proves it.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Nothing, he must have one hell of an agent or Brown is straight up messing things up with his stubbornness. We need Huerter to ball out but it's going to have to in a reserve roll for any sort of success.

I think it depends on how they stagger the stars with the bench. The Fox-led bench group felt underwhelming last night, but it makes sense to me to have Keon in that group so Fox can focus on being most aggressive on offense. It also makes sense to pair Kevin with Sabonis as much as possible. Brown tends to sub out Fox before Sabonis, so I can understand the rotation from this sense, I suppose.