ESPN Article: Second-best O since trade deadline? Kings

KingKong

KingKong

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#1
#1
ESPN Article: Second-best O since trade deadline? Kings

It’s been quite a month in the NBA. In addition to running off 27 straight wins, the Miami Heat have lifted their offense to new levels of excellence. The Oklahoma City Thunder have continued a season of dominance, also powered by an exceptional offense. The Denver Nuggets, winners of 15 straight, have been running teams off the floor with their relentless, athletic attacking style.


And then, of course, there’s the Sacramento Kings, who are second in the league in offensive efficiency since Feb. 26 with 110.3 points per 100 possessions, just a shade behind Miami’s 110.4 and ahead of the Thunder’s 109.5 for that time period. (The Kings also lead the NBA in points per game (109.6) for that span.)

Read More: http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/56206/second-best-o-since-trade-deadline-kings
 
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KingMilz

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#4
#4
If its one thing the Kings are not lacking in, its scoring firepower/streaky players, pretty amazing that we are doing this well on offense considering the team chemistry has not been all that good (improved big time since trade) and we have no system to speak off and quiet a few players with questionable shot selection at times.

Putting points on the board won't be a problem its stopping the other team thats the biggest issue
 
rainmaker

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#5
#5
Then there's no reason not to play more defensive lineups more often. Offense just isn't a problem, despite our lack of actually running competent sets. We score plenty. And if Smart played Douglas/Aldrich more, we'd be even more impressive.
 
M

Mal

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#6
#6
but, according to Bricklayer

KingKong said:
ESPN Article: Second-best O since trade deadline? Kings

It’s been quite a month in the NBA. In addition to running off 27 straight wins, the Miami Heat have lifted their offense to new levels of excellence. The Oklahoma City Thunder have continued a season of dominance, also powered by an exceptional offense. The Denver Nuggets, winners of 15 straight, have been running teams off the floor with their relentless, athletic attacking style.


And then, of course, there’s the Sacramento Kings, who are second in the league in offensive efficiency since Feb. 26 with 110.3 points per 100 possessions, just a shade behind Miami’s 110.4 and ahead of the Thunder’s 109.5 for that time period. (The Kings also lead the NBA in points per game (109.6) for that span.)

Read More: http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/56206/second-best-o-since-trade-deadline-kings
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The offense doesn't work with Thomas at point, but then, again, Reke is his domestic partner.
 
Spike

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#7
#7
Again, scoring points isn't the same thing as running an offense. We're just streetballing with the occasional 1-4 flat for "variety".
An actual offense would also have us in better position to respond defensively, since everyone knows where they should be at a given time.



"As far as the improvement on offense, to some degree the Kings are on a hot shooting streak that’s unsustainable. But the more interesting development is that Sacramento appears to have imported the Rockets' philosophy in addition to players: They’re running and gunning, and they’ve embraced the 3, especially the corner 3."

"Part of this improvement reflects the change in shot distribution since Patterson arrived in town. Patterson has not only been on fire from behind the arc (14-of-30) but also from midrange, where he’s nailed 54 percent on almost three attempts a game, a big improvement over Robinson, a 31 percent midrange shooter."

All in all it's a pretty solid explanation: Better spacing due to Patterson, shooters running hot, and bringing in guys who haven't been "coached up" by Smart.
 
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Agent23

Agent23

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#8
#8
Mal said:
The offense doesn't work with Thomas at point, but then, again, Reke is his domestic partner.
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No where in that article was Isaiah Thomas credited with the offensive efficiency of this team. It only mentions his three point shot making from the corner being the role player that he is, most likely receiving passes from Tyreke Evans, you know, the 2nd best player on this team.
 
Padrino

Padrino

All-Star
#9
#9
yes, yes, most improved offense since the all-star break, blah, yada, etc...

that's great. it's good to know that this team isn't as inept as they've seemed in the past. and it's clear that the low-BBIQ argument erroneously thrust upon a number of kings is an absurdity; it was always primarily a coaching issue. it should be noted, though, that since the kings' coaching staff has corrected some of their mistakes on their preferred side of the ball, the team has managed to sink to absolute dead last in points allowed per game (104.7). it'd be one thing if the kings' offense hadn't improved at the expense of the defense and they were, say, only a paltry 20th in the league in points allowed per game. a good coaching staff fosters improvement in both, after all. but the kings regularly give up 110+, and there's no other perpetual destination but the lottery for a team whose entire defensive philosophy is to cheat off three-point shooters and reach-in...

it's certainly a moot point, as this organization will look very different next season, from the top down, no matter where it ends up. but it's still worth paying attention to the kings' trajectories on both sides of the ball, because new ownership will undoubtedly be evaluating the team's prospects on both sides of the ball. there's a much bigger story here then the team's improvement on the offensive side. and while i have no problem with anyone acknowledging that improvement, cheering offensive gains while ignoring a full defensive collapse is like enjoying a sunset from the scene of a train wreck. there's always a way to make something look good in any light, but it's gonna be rather difficult to pretty up smoking rubble...
 
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ESP47

All-Star
#10
#10
This exact same thing happened last year. We went off after the all star break and stopped playing defense and started playing Nellie ball.

Yes our team has a better record when playing Nellie ball but we'll never get to the playoffs this way.

All offseason I remember folks on this board saying that our offense was perfectly fine and we only had to concentrate on defense. Well they tried to change that by starting James Johnson. We saw how that went. We were holding opponents to 85ppg on most nights and only scoring 80 ourselves. Then again Isaiah wasn't Isaiah at the beginning of the year either.

All this team needs is a 3pt shooting defensive minded SF and a competent coach who can coach a defense that doesn't have our guards and SF's sagging into the paint to cover lanes that don't even have to be guarded. If we get those two things I think we can compete for the 8th seed.
 
Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#12
#12
VF21 said:
Just curious...what exactly do you think that adds to the debate or to your argument?
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I don't know, I found it to be a very enlightening debate point. Probably with the opposite effect of what was intended, but still, very enlightening.
 
upinsmoke

upinsmoke

All-Star
#15
#15
DC already said he would love to be on the coaching/training staff on the CM Dave show a couple of summers ago. Vlade and or C-Webb to work with Cousins would also be freakin sweet.
 
HereWeStay

HereWeStay

Bench
#19
#19
VF21 said:
Magic Johnson was 6'9". Magic Johnson was a point guard. You cannot determine a player's position solely by height.
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name other pg's in nba history that is 6'6 and was/is s a star....

theres a reason why pg's are 6'3 or lower,its better to havre a smaller pg 6'3 or lower so they can drive thru the lane and break down the d in and out of traffic..

rekes body is too big to be a pg anyway, dude is huge
 
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KingMilz

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#20
#20
HereWeStay said:
name other pg's in nba history that is 6'6 and was/is s a star....

theres a reason why pg's are 6'3 or lower,its better to havre a smaller pg 6'3 or lower so they can drive thru the lane and break down the d in and out of traffic..

rekes body is too big to be a pg anyway, dude is huge
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Shawn Livingston prior to blowing his knee out completely, Brent Barry in Seattle filled in numerous times @PG very successfully to play next to Ray Allen/Rashard. Marko Jaric was 6'5 and slow and a starter for a number of teams including Clippers/Twovles.

Granted none are stars but all good players, I would also say Reke can break down the D in and out of traffic better than a lot of starting PGs in the L today.
 
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upinsmoke

upinsmoke

All-Star
#21
#21
How about a scenario like this. Use the pick to attempt to dump salary such as Salmons/Outlaw/Hayes and re up Evans and then sign Iggy to tie it all together.
 
HereWeStay

HereWeStay

Bench
#22
#22
upinsmoke said:
How about a scenario like this. Use the pick to attempt to dump salary such as Salmons/Outlaw/Hayes and re up Evans and then sign Iggy to tie it all together.
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so we will now have 5 ball dominate players who doesnt pass?
iggy, thornton, it, reke, cousins?

all 5 of those players are chuckers and wont work. yes iggy is great and would love him here but he wouldnt fit with this team, it would have to be moved if iggy were to come here
 
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KingMilz

Guest
#23
#23
HereWeStay said:
so we will now have 5 ball dominate players who doesnt pass?
iggy, thornton, it, reke, cousins?

all 5 of those players are chuckers and wont work. yes iggy is great and would love him here but he wouldnt fit with this team, it would have to be moved if iggy were to come here
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I don't think Iggy would be a good fit due to his lack of shooting but this season he does not dominate the ball at all in Denver Lawson, Gallo, Miller all dominate the ball far more than him, hes actually been like Tony Allen with very good passing this season. From a passing/D point of view he would be great but his lack of shot might hurt us but compared to Salmons thats a huge upgrade. On top of that this season his off the ball movement has been fantastic and hes like a #3rd/4th option.

Hes a great teammate to have no doubt he can play various roles and can dominate the ball at times when he has to as well as posting up. He would be the best passing player on the current Kings squad imo.
 
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Telemachus

Telemachus

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#25
#25
HereWeStay said:
name other pg's in nba history that is 6'6 and was/is s a star....

theres a reason why pg's are 6'3 or lower,its better to havre a smaller pg 6'3 or lower so they can drive thru the lane and break down the d in and out of traffic..

rekes body is too big to be a pg anyway, dude is huge
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Magic Johnson at 6'9 has already been mentioned. Off the top of my head, here are 3 more to think about. Oscar Robertson was one of the greatest players of all time a was a 6'5 PG. Penny Hardaway was on his way to what many thought was a HOF career before injuries knocked off that tract, and was a 6'7 PG. And we can't forget our own Reggie Theus who was a very good PG in the NBA for years while being 6'7. There have been many others who have not been short. Jason Kidd is 6'4, Steve Nash, Derrick Rose, and Russell Westbrook are 6'3. Jalen Rose was 6'8. And I haven't even looked at players like Kobe and LeBron who are the main facilitators on their teams (even if they aren't listed as the PG).

Now I'm not saying all this to prove that Tyreke should be our PG, only to prove that size shouldn't be what determines that decision.
 
Mad D

Mad D

Starter
#26
#26
Walt Frazier and Michael Ray Richardson at 6'5 are more comparable to Tyreke. They were both great defenders and all around players. Those are two players that I've read him compared to at times (and much more realistic comparisons than a Wade or Big O).
 
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jalfa

jalfa

Starter
#27
#27
HereWeStay said:
so we will now have 5 ball dominate players who doesnt pass?
iggy, thornton, it, reke, cousins?

all 5 of those players are chuckers and wont work. yes iggy is great and would love him here but he wouldnt fit with this team, it would have to be moved if iggy were to come here
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Iggy a chucker? seriously? that guy averages less than 12 FGA over his career and is currently sitting at below 11 FGA in Denver's fast-paced offense. granted, he does use up possessions as a playmaker, but that's pretty much what this team needs right now. if you had brought up spacing, okay, kind of a point, but if Reke keeps upping his 3P% and we play PatPat alongside them, it shouldn't be a problem. also, with the defense being what it is right now, it should really not be that much of a concern.
 
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eliczone

Prospect
#28
#28
HereWeStay said:
name other pg's in nba history that is 6'6 and was/is s a star....

theres a reason why pg's are 6'3 or lower,its better to havre a smaller pg 6'3 or lower so they can drive thru the lane and break down the d in and out of traffic..

rekes body is too big to be a pg anyway, dude is huge
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if reke can score, why can't he break down the d???
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#29
#29
HereWeStay said:
name other pg's in nba history that is 6'6 and was/is s a star....

theres a reason why pg's are 6'3 or lower,its better to havre a smaller pg 6'3 or lower so they can drive thru the lane and break down the d in and out of traffic..

rekes body is too big to be a pg anyway, dude is huge
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Errr... That is precisely Tyreke's strength!
 
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ESP47

All-Star
#30
#30
Since when is Tyreke's problem being too big of a PG? I'm not sure where you guys get this stuff from.

His problem is the fact that when he plays PG for any significant time, our offense comes to a screeching halt. Watch any game when Tyreke is at PG and Thornton is at SG. The first pass of the possession won't be made until there are 13 seconds left on the shot clock. Usually it's just to a big out at the 3pt line who hands it back to Tyreke. Now there's 10 seconds left. Tyreke dribbles around and tries to go one on one. If he gets by the guy it works. If he doesn't, now there's 6 seconds left on the clock and he's forced to dump it off to someone who most likely isn't in position to score. Now there are just a few seconds left on the clock and they're forced to just jack up a shot to keep from turning it over. We've seen this happen over and over again. The Tyreke experiment at PG was nice to try out but it's just not going to work. He does not have court vision at all and solely relies on beating his man off the dribble. You can't run an offense around that.
 
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