Enough
- Thread starter Sluggah
- Start date
My three cents?
The Webber trade was a failure, pure and simple.
Does it matter now? No...
The ship sailed.
I watch the box scores and a small part of me is very sad AS a Kings fan but very happy for Webber, because - so far at least - he's proven that he wasn't washed up, he wasn't finished, he would be able to play on the same team with AI, etc.
What I'm the most sad about, however, is that we will never know what last year's team might have been able to end up doing because - again just IMHO - someone in the Kings hierarchy panicked and pulled the trigger on a deal that only ensured one thing - an early exit from the playoffs and a team in chaos.
Webber is putting up very impressive numbers right now, so the amount of his salary - especially when compared to the THREE people pulling down the equivalent amount with nothing every remotely approaching the same production - is immaterial.
My heart hurts over what's happened so far and I don't know if it's going to get any better. All I can do is try and keep the faith - even if my head is telling my heart to grow up.
GO KINGS!!!!
The Webber trade was a failure, pure and simple.
Does it matter now? No...
The ship sailed.
I watch the box scores and a small part of me is very sad AS a Kings fan but very happy for Webber, because - so far at least - he's proven that he wasn't washed up, he wasn't finished, he would be able to play on the same team with AI, etc.
What I'm the most sad about, however, is that we will never know what last year's team might have been able to end up doing because - again just IMHO - someone in the Kings hierarchy panicked and pulled the trigger on a deal that only ensured one thing - an early exit from the playoffs and a team in chaos.
Webber is putting up very impressive numbers right now, so the amount of his salary - especially when compared to the THREE people pulling down the equivalent amount with nothing every remotely approaching the same production - is immaterial.
My heart hurts over what's happened so far and I don't know if it's going to get any better. All I can do is try and keep the faith - even if my head is telling my heart to grow up.
GO KINGS!!!!
We can trade some of those pieces with one of the big three.
Anyway, managing a team is similar to investing stock market. Sometimes, you see a company that is still making money but has poor outlook and in a rapidly declining industry. In such a case, it is wise to sell that company's stocks before it devalues to a point when no one really wants them.
Anyway, managing a team is similar to investing stock market. Sometimes, you see a company that is still making money but has poor outlook and in a rapidly declining industry. In such a case, it is wise to sell that company's stocks before it devalues to a point when no one really wants them.
Wow! Great post! Obviously the trade was a failure, and obviously there is not a dang thing we can do about it. Thinking about it, dwelling on it, and wishing it away are unproductive, but man, it's so hard not to say "what if". As Kings fans we've been saying what if for so many years... what if there wasn't a bad call (or what if Bibby's face hadn't fouled Kobe's elbow) what if Webber hadn't been injured, what if we'd hit some free throws... throughout it all we kept a positive attitude and stood behind our team. The Webb trade, and not letting that season ride out for better or worse was (IMHO) the cruelest thing the Maloofs could have done to us fans. How could they stop believing when most of us hadn't?
Anyway, I digress! I watch the box scores too, and am proud of Webb & wish him nothing but the best. And every time I see him doing well it makes me sad about the trade all over again.
I love this team. I will always love the Kings. But what we are watching right now is hard to watch. Losing Vlade, Christie, Webb, and then Jackson over the course of one year, I feel like the heart and soul was ripped from this team. I know they will find a new identify & things will be good again, but until this team starts looking better and acting like they care, it's that much harder to really move on.
Anyway, I digress! I watch the box scores too, and am proud of Webb & wish him nothing but the best. And every time I see him doing well it makes me sad about the trade all over again.
I love this team. I will always love the Kings. But what we are watching right now is hard to watch. Losing Vlade, Christie, Webb, and then Jackson over the course of one year, I feel like the heart and soul was ripped from this team. I know they will find a new identify & things will be good again, but until this team starts looking better and acting like they care, it's that much harder to really move on.
Wow, with all due respect this post is very premature. Webber has played a few good games. I'd hardly say he's blowing away Abdur-Rahim, but he's looked pretty good offensively. Defensively it's another story. The 76ers are giving up 108 points a game, most in the league. 108 points!! And that's with two very good defenders in the starting lineup, Steven Hunter and Andre Iguodala.
Let's talk again at the end of the season to see if Webber's knee is holding up and see how Abdur-Rahim has fit in. Let's see if the Kings can turn it around. Let's see what happens with trades and what happens when the contracts expire.
You may be absolutely right, it may have been a failure, but to say that with any degree of certainty at this juncture is a bit early.
Let's talk again at the end of the season to see if Webber's knee is holding up and see how Abdur-Rahim has fit in. Let's see if the Kings can turn it around. Let's see what happens with trades and what happens when the contracts expire.
You may be absolutely right, it may have been a failure, but to say that with any degree of certainty at this juncture is a bit early.
But, Webb was not traded for SAR. Webb was traded for KT, Williamson & Skinner. So any comparision should really be made between those 3 (or players they may be traded for) and how Webb is doing. And, Webb's contract is closing in on being an asset... once it's in the final year it would be easy to dump it for teams looking for salary relief. I'm not sure how Webb is doing defensively, but he did have 3 blocks and a steal Wed. night.
Anyway, the passion that Webb brought to the team is sorely lacking so far this year. Where is the player that's going to stand up & say that they believe in this team? Where is the player that wants to win so badly that nothing else matters? Missing, kind of like the identity of this team. I know we will come together and play better, and I know that this team will gell & find an identity of it's own. But in the meantime, this team looks like they are missing something, and they look like they could really use what Cwebb brought to this team, not just in the stats, but in the intangibles that don't show up on the box score.
Anyway, the passion that Webb brought to the team is sorely lacking so far this year. Where is the player that's going to stand up & say that they believe in this team? Where is the player that wants to win so badly that nothing else matters? Missing, kind of like the identity of this team. I know we will come together and play better, and I know that this team will gell & find an identity of it's own. But in the meantime, this team looks like they are missing something, and they look like they could really use what Cwebb brought to this team, not just in the stats, but in the intangibles that don't show up on the box score.
I agree with you on the passion thing. I wasn't the biggest fan of Webber the player, but at least you always knew that Webber wanted to win very, very, very badly, to atone for his college career and to prove it to everyone who ever gave him crap for the timeout. And I think his teammates genuinely liked him and wanted to win FOR him. I don't see that on the current team, and it's something that I only realized in retrospect.
However, you have to inlcude SAR in the discussion. He wouldn't have come to the Kings if Webber was here. Plain and simple. Webber leaving opened up the spot for a player of SAR's quality to take his place.
I would even go so far as to say that Bonzi Wells wouldn't be here without the Webber trade. Without Brian Skinner I don't think the Kings could have afforded to trade Greg Ostertag, who was a crucial component in that trade.
The situation is more complicated than just looking at Thomas, Williamson and Skinner's stats and contributions and saying it was a failure. You have to include SAR in the mix. So far the psychological effect of trading Webber isn't so positive, but from a basketball standpoint I'd say currently it's a wash.
However, you have to inlcude SAR in the discussion. He wouldn't have come to the Kings if Webber was here. Plain and simple. Webber leaving opened up the spot for a player of SAR's quality to take his place.
I would even go so far as to say that Bonzi Wells wouldn't be here without the Webber trade. Without Brian Skinner I don't think the Kings could have afforded to trade Greg Ostertag, who was a crucial component in that trade.
The situation is more complicated than just looking at Thomas, Williamson and Skinner's stats and contributions and saying it was a failure. You have to include SAR in the mix. So far the psychological effect of trading Webber isn't so positive, but from a basketball standpoint I'd say currently it's a wash.
I agreed with trading Webber, but was in shock that we only got three marginal players in return.
Sorry if this gloomy, but I've seen enough.
The most ominous sign I've seen this season is the team's tendency to pack it in. I can only remember a handful of times when the Kings fell behind over the last 6 years and didn't even make a run to get back into the game. I've seen it three times this season already, and the quit is in their eyes.
IMO this falls on the coach. He's a fine coach with players who buy in, but the romance is over. Bibby and Miller are the trade bait. Not Peja. The Kings need one player better than anyone on their current roster, and perhaps trading both of them would land them such a player. Bibby and Miller might look better elsewhere, but only if teamed with better players. Their supporting cast here is not good enough, and they can't carry the load in 2005-2006.
IMO they need a better point guard and a better big man now or they ain't beating anyone in the Western Division let alone making the Conference playoffs. They should trade everyone and anyone to accomplish this.
Sorry if this gloomy, but I've seen enough.
The most ominous sign I've seen this season is the team's tendency to pack it in. I can only remember a handful of times when the Kings fell behind over the last 6 years and didn't even make a run to get back into the game. I've seen it three times this season already, and the quit is in their eyes.
IMO this falls on the coach. He's a fine coach with players who buy in, but the romance is over. Bibby and Miller are the trade bait. Not Peja. The Kings need one player better than anyone on their current roster, and perhaps trading both of them would land them such a player. Bibby and Miller might look better elsewhere, but only if teamed with better players. Their supporting cast here is not good enough, and they can't carry the load in 2005-2006.
IMO they need a better point guard and a better big man now or they ain't beating anyone in the Western Division let alone making the Conference playoffs. They should trade everyone and anyone to accomplish this.
I agree that SAR would not be here if Webb was still here. No question about it, you're not going to bring in that talent & then have him receive negible minutes and stay on the bench for most of each game. But, that was separate from the trade. We could have gotten two great players for Webb that would complement our team in different positions, and still brought in SAR to start. My position has never been that we should keep Webb at all costs (although from an emotional standpoint I lean that way!) but that we should never had traded him for what we got in return. I simply don't think what we got from Philly justified trading away Webb and what he meant to this team.
Bricklayer said:
How can you possibly say that? 
Are 6th, 9th, and 11th men right now (the trio) are contributing a combined:
34.1min 7.9pts 6.1rebs 2.3ast 0.6stl 0.7blk 1.9TO
And you continue to insist you'd rather have the guy averaging 23pts 10rebs??? You're a madwoman!
Are 6th, 9th, and 11th men right now (the trio) are contributing a combined:
34.1min 7.9pts 6.1rebs 2.3ast 0.6stl 0.7blk 1.9TO
And you continue to insist you'd rather have the guy averaging 23pts 10rebs??? You're a madwoman!
It is always bittersweet when former players perform well. I am happy for them and sad for us. While I may understand, on some level the whys of last season's trades, it still makes me shake my head.
Right now, this is our team. Honestly, they are not very good at the moment. They are playing well below their potential. I have to hold on to the belief that they will get it together.
Even last year when we had this same record, I had a different feeling about the team. I really expect (almost WANT) a trade to happen- a change of some sort. Whatever happens, we need a SHOCK to get us going. Obviously embarrassing losses aren't enough.
They are my team. I will continue to love and support it. Even when they are disappointing me.
I agree, enough is enough. It is time for US to be a TEAM again- From the Maloofs, to the execs, to the players, coaches, and fans.
Right now, this is our team. Honestly, they are not very good at the moment. They are playing well below their potential. I have to hold on to the belief that they will get it together.
Even last year when we had this same record, I had a different feeling about the team. I really expect (almost WANT) a trade to happen- a change of some sort. Whatever happens, we need a SHOCK to get us going. Obviously embarrassing losses aren't enough.
They are my team. I will continue to love and support it. Even when they are disappointing me.
I agree, enough is enough. It is time for US to be a TEAM again- From the Maloofs, to the execs, to the players, coaches, and fans.
GoGoGadget said:
Not according to Grant Napear. He just finished yelling at a caller about how horribly Chris Webber is playing this season.
I'm not terribly in the revisit-the-trade camp just because I think its pointless, but I do find people who insist on trying to lie and B.S. their way through the situaion to support an agenda to be completely pathetic.
GoGoGadget said:
Not according to Grant Napear. He just finished yelling at a caller about how horribly Chris Webber is playing this season.
Bricklayer said:
Oh truly -- I mean 22.4pts (.462, --, .897) 10.0rebs 2.4ast 1.6stl 1.2blk on a team scoring 102.4ppg. Its just been horrible.
I'm not terribly in the revisit-the-trade camp just because I think its pointless, but I do find people who insist on trying to lie and B.S. their way through the situaion to support an agenda to be completely pathetic.
I'm not terribly in the revisit-the-trade camp just because I think its pointless, but I do find people who insist on trying to lie and B.S. their way through the situaion to support an agenda to be completely pathetic.
His broadcast commentary is full of so much hot air I'm surprised Arco doesn't float upward on a nightly basis. His attempts at true sports analysis while in his other role - that of perennial Jim Rome wannabe - are without anything approaching merit.
Last edited:
I think this team mirrors it's coach. You're right. Mike, Brad, and Peja (our big 3 as they have been previously called) are good players. Right now they are not playing well. They are not trying hard enough. In fact, it borders on just plain laziness. Perhaps they have been spoiled by years of success. All three of them are not playing up to the same level that Shareef and Bonzi are. How long untill Shareef and Bonzi slip and start playing at the big threes level? The coach is responsible for getting the players ready to play. So far, the big three have not come to play. I don't buy the argument that they just need time to play together and learn each other. Other teams have made a lot of changes and are being productive. This team had a training camp. That was where they should have gotten to know each other.
This team is so average right now at so many levels. I believe an air of complacency has set in. Not just by the players. More importantly, by the coach. The Princeton offense has been figured out. There are no more surprises. Adelman has had his chance to shine. Pete Carrill should retire and Elston Turner (the guy who is the defensive specialist") has had no impact on this team as far as defense is concerned. How many more years are we Kings fan going to complain about this teams lack of defense? There is too much talent on this team for them to be wallowing in mediocrity. It's been a nice run but it's time for things to be shaken up. We can be so much better than this.
This team is so average right now at so many levels. I believe an air of complacency has set in. Not just by the players. More importantly, by the coach. The Princeton offense has been figured out. There are no more surprises. Adelman has had his chance to shine. Pete Carrill should retire and Elston Turner (the guy who is the defensive specialist") has had no impact on this team as far as defense is concerned. How many more years are we Kings fan going to complain about this teams lack of defense? There is too much talent on this team for them to be wallowing in mediocrity. It's been a nice run but it's time for things to be shaken up. We can be so much better than this.
Bricklayer said:
Oh truly -- I mean 22.4pts (.462, --, .897) 10.0rebs 2.4ast 1.6stl 1.2blk on a team scoring 102.4ppg. Its just been horrible.
I'm not terribly in the revisit-the-trade camp just because I think its pointless, but I do find people who insist on trying to lie and B.S. their way through the situaion to support an agenda to be completely pathetic.
I'm not terribly in the revisit-the-trade camp just because I think its pointless, but I do find people who insist on trying to lie and B.S. their way through the situaion to support an agenda to be completely pathetic.
And if you don't like that, you don't like terrible radio talk show hosts.
That really isn't true at all...the team defense has been terrible, but Webber has been playing pretty decently....at least as good as he did for us. Furthermore, even Iverson said in a n interview that WEbber is the only person on the team that you can count on for a rebound. Unfortunately, with defensive holes like those created by Kyle Korver you are going to give up a lot of points. Either way, he is playing better defense for the Sixers than KT, Corliss, and Skinner are from the bench.
Obviously you haven't been watching the sixers every game which is fine but trust me Napear has. Philly is getting killed by wing players and guards, more than they are inside(Kyle Korver sucks). Webber has dropped weight and is moving much better, he is showing well on the help with iverson on D and with those big hands is getting his share of poke aways and steals. He has also actually been blocking some shots and of course as always he is cleaning up on the defensive boards. He still isn't the greatest one on one defender(def subpar unless it's crunch time or playoffs when he steps it up to adequate) but he's about 10 times better than Brad, so I don't know what Grants screaming about. To say he's been awful on D for Philly you would have to have either not been watching, or lying or full of ****.(I'm talking about Grant not you Nbrans).
Last edited: