Ego: Tyreke vs. Wall

[rainmaker]

I think a poster or two has brought this up, and I have been thinking about it as well. We all know both Tyreke and Wall will be stars in this league. To what degree, we don't know, but I'm sure they each will at the minimum play, in 5+ allstar games.

What I wanted to bring up and discuss though, is how would a potential Wall and Tyreke pairing handle sharing the spotlight? Tyreke is now the ROY. The Maloofs have basically handed the keys to the franchise over to him. They promoted 20/5/5 and his ROY campaign like I have never seen them do before, and have publicly stated a number of times that he is the future of this franchise and will lead us back to the promise land. I think at his ROY celebration, Gavin even said Tyreke would be a future MVP.

Which brings me to Wall. The most hyped player coming into the league since Lebron. Allstar talent, maybe superstar talent, freakishly athletic, exciting, all over sport center, and has been talked about as the #1 overall pick for 2 years now. Remember, there was talk of him challenging the NBA's age limit coming out of highschool. He will want ROY, shoe deals, rookie game MVP, all the stuff Tyreke went after, and for good reason, because he is good enough to follow in Tyrekes footsteps.

So, IF we were to end up with Wall, who happens to play the same position as Tyreke, how do you think they would handle sharing the spotlight? It's hard for me to picture the kings drafting Wall and moving Tyreke to sg, right after winnig ROY as a pg. Whether or not Wall is good enough to force Tyreke to change positions before stepping on an nba court is highly debatable. The entire organization seemed to get behind Tyreke as our future pg. Do you really, really think Petrie would take Wall given how much they have publicly backed and promoted Tyreke as our pg? How would Tyreke handle it? He's been asked on two occasions which I've heard about who he wants in the draft, and he said Cousins both times.

They both are extremely talented. Both might be in the HOF some day. But do you guys see either being able to play second fiddle, and take a backseat to the other? Not saying it would happen, but I would say it's probable, if we drafted Wall. And the Maloofs can't promote Wall as the future of this franchise after what they just did with Tyreke. Tyreke is humble, but is also quickly becoming, or has become, however you see it, the face of this franchise. I'm sure Wall wants the same.

Thoughts...

 

[Chupacabra]

I doubt that the FO would draft Wall, let alone draft him with the intentions of keeping him. Using a #1 pick on a position of which your star player plays and then forcing either player to play out of position is a bad idea. I really dont think that scenario will take place. The idea of drafting Wall with the intention of trading him seems very interesting although i dont think such a thing has ever been done.

 

[Kings Faithful]

Of all the potential reasons that Tyreke and Wall wouldn't fit together, I think ego is the least of my worries. Tyreke isn't the type of person to get offended by another player wanting the spot light... unless that player isn't good enough to back it up. If Wall comes into the NBA and is our Jordan, i don't think reke has a problem being our pippen. If Tyreke ends up being our Jordan, hopefully wall is mature enough to grow out of any AI complex that he might have. The only conflict of Ego that I see is if Wall comes to our team and is mediocre at best, yet has Kobes ego. I don't think Tyreke would have any of that and neither would I. Its possible that I'm wrong, but I think both players would rather win and be known as perhaps the best backcourt duo in history, than to blow it because of a self absorbed need to want to be the man.

 

[rainmaker]

Of all the potential reasons that Tyreke and Wall wouldn't fit together, I think ego is the least of my worries. Tyreke isn't the type of person to get offended by another player wanting the spot light... unless that player isn't good enough to back it up. If Wall comes into the NBA and is our Jordan, i don't think reke has a problem being our pippen. If Tyreke ends up being our Jordan, hopefully wall is mature enough to grow out of any AI complex that he might have. The only conflict of Ego that I see is if Wall comes to our team and is mediocre at best, yet has Kobes ego. I don't think Tyreke would have any of that and neither would I. Its possible that I'm wrong, but I think both players would rather win and be known as perhaps the best backcourt duo in history, than to blow it because of a self absorbed need to want to be the man.

I see what you're saying, but I think at this point, both would want to be our Jordan. Most great guard in this league, went through a period of being selfish, and trying to prove themselves when they were young. As they matured, they started to sacrifice in order to win. Players say it all the time, "I'm not about the numbers anymore, and don't care about scoring titles, I just want to win".

I would hope it doesn't happen. But given we are disecting all the possibilities leading up to the draft, I thought this was worth talking about.

 

[Kings Faithful]

I see what you're saying, but I think at this point, both would want to be our Jordan. Most great guard in this league, went through a period of being selfish, and trying to prove themselves when they were young. As they matured, they started to sacrifice in order to win. Players say it all the time, "I'm not about the numbers anymore, and don't care about scoring titles, I just want to win".

I would hope it doesn't happen. But given we are disecting all the possibilities leading up to the draft, I thought this was worth talking about.

I 100% agree... my hope is that in getting them together both as young as they are and as potentially good as they can be...they won't go through that selfish stage, or at least its a very short stage. I don't consider Tyreke selfish right now because their isn't a better option on the court to win the games... he's a winner, not a ball hog. In a few years, if we haven't found some options for Tyreke to pass too and being selfish is all he knows how to do, then it might be an issue. I just want to get some good young talent as soon as possible so it doesn't get to that point. Overall.. I really don't care we draft... I know it will be the right guy. Last year when Geoff picked Tyreke over Rubio I lost a little faith... but in the end my faith in Petrie multiplied 4X because of the outcome. In fact, I would probably be happier if we chose Turner over Wall. All that would mean to me is that no matter how good Wall is, Turner will be better.

 

[Prince_XY]

All normal person has ego, at least that is according to Freud.

Players might say blah-blah-blah to look good in the eyes of the public and just to be politically correct although they feel otherwise. I think the OP started a very good thread worth discussing because the problem is very real, especially if it is true that Evans picked Cousins instead of the #1 pick concensus Wall.

Somebody made a very good point on another thread about having to play two stud players who are both ball-dominant to be effective. We don't want to revisit the same sort of problem with pairing Evans and Martin again.

And now we are going to experiment with two ball-dominant players, both young and still wanting to prove something, and both play very effectively well at the same position?

 

[Gary]

I doubt that the FO would draft Wall, let alone draft him with the intentions of keeping him. Using a #1 pick on a position of which your star player plays and then forcing either player to play out of position is a bad idea. I really dont think that scenario will take place. The idea of drafting Wall with the intention of trading him seems very interesting although i dont think such a thing has ever been done.

The front office would be stupid NOT to draft Wall.. You don't pass on guys like Wall who is pretty much a superstar before entering the league even..

If we get the #1 pick then you will see the Kings draft John Wall.. This I am 99.99999% sure of. As for egos? Who cares.. It's something that two people can work out between themselves. If they end up hating each other for some reason then you would look into trading one of them..

 

[Uncia03]

It's fairly obvious that I personally believe that there are better fits for our team other than John Wall, but I don't want to point at 'Ego' as being a large issue. Perhaps it's just semantics, but here is how I see it:

If we select John Wall then both he and Tyreke would be our starting back-court from day 1. And whenever Westphal or Petrie or the players are asked, they will all say the same thing: "They are guards. They are basketball players, they don't have to box themselves in as PG and SG."

And that statement is all well and good, but the reality will be that ultimately one player will end up dominating the ball more than the other. That is just how things work.

So looking at it from John Wall's perspective:

He'd be coming onto a team who has lauded Tyreke as the savior and future of this franchise and as an almost position-changing star at the point guard spot.

So I don't think there is any question that he'd defer to Tyreke in the back-court, at least initially. Now Wall does not excel as an off-the-ball player, so if he feels as if Tyreke is unable to adequately put him in position to shine as a basketball star, then he is going to try and take things into his own hands, and by extension take the ball out of Tyreke's hands in order to make plays.

We know that Tyreke is a below average player when having to play off-the-ball, and there wasn't anyone on our team last year that had the star-power to keep him from the claiming the ball when he wanted it.

All in all, I just see two very young star players fighting to show the world how good they are, and unfortunately, I think that their mentality will be that they have to go out and show that they are better than their counterpart to prove that this is 'their' team.

I look at this like the Rookie All-Star game. Sure all the rookies are on the same team and they want to win the game. But the most important thing is to demonstrate that not only do you belong, but that you're the best of your peers. So you'll make good team plays in the flow of the game, but that back-and-forth, of 'I'll make a great play', then 'I'll top your great play', is something that I can see being a constant theme with both Wall and Tyreke in the backcourt, and it would be something that you'd see until the issue was settled with a clear 'winner' and a clear 'loser'.

So I don't know if I'd call it Ego or not, but it is a concern.


For me personally, the larger concern I have stems from my expectation that these two young men will fight for dominance of the basketball.

A lot of people say that you need to pick the elite talent, and if Wall outshines Tyreke, then you look to trade Tyreke for a star player, and if Tyreke outshines Wall then you look to trade Wall for a star player.

Ultimately there will be a 'winner' and a 'loser'. If John Wall supplants Tyreke at the PG spot then Tyreke will be the loser, because having to be at the SG position really plays to Tyreke's weaknesses. And so if you have Wall play PG for 2 years while Tyreke is not dominating at the SG spot, then you lose a lot of trade value in Tyreke, in addition to wasted time trying to make it work.
The same goes for Wall. If Tyreke ends up being our physically dominant PG, and Wall is moved over to off-guard, perhaps Wall is not able to dominate like we'd expect, and therefore his trade value goes down, and you're not able to get what you'd like for him.

So since I don't believe there is much of a gap between Wall and Turner, I'd go for Turner, because there isn't going to be an all-out war about who is going to be the PG and dominate the ball. And that means that all of the time will be spent with Evans and Turner learning to play with each other and support each other, as opposed to Evans and Wall fighting with each other to prove that they are the one who should dominate the basketball.

As far as getting Cousins, I love Cousins and would love to have him. I do see enough of a talent gap that I'd take Turner over Cousins.

The OP in another thread said that Evan Turner is the type of player who would be ideal playing next to Tyreke. And that Evan Turner is also the type of player who would be ideal playing next to John Wall, and that both John Wall or Tyreke Evans and their teams would benefit tremendously from having a player like Turner next to them.
I thought this was very well said and agree 100%. From a team perspective I think a Wall/Turner or an Evans/Turner backcourt would be superior to an Evans/Wall backcourt.

One final thought:

I'd love to have back-to-back ROY awards. John Wall has a very good chance of winning it, but in my opinion, it would be at the expense of Tyreke's game. On the other hand, I also believe that Evan Turner has a very good chance of winning it, but I can see Tyreke's game flourishing, in addition to Turner winning the award, and that in my mind would be the most optimal outcome.

 

[mac]

Naturally ego would be a concern, and it's not really the fault of either Wall or Evans but it's human nature. Having two elite players in the backcourt is extremely difficult to accommodate, because both will need the ball and in the case of Wall and Evans I do not believe they can truly play off each other.

For this reason I'm kind of hoping that we get the #2 pick with Wall taken first. It may not be as good a result for the franchise in the long run, and some would say that that is not a sign of being a 'true fan' or what have you. Well, that's true - as a fan you should ultimately want what's best for the team and what would bring a championship. But we're not simply fans of the Sacramento Kings team but fans of the Sacramento Kings players as well, and I personally would be very sad if we had to trade Tyreke if Wall turned out to be better. I'd be glad that we'd have a "bigger" superstar, but definitely would be disappointed in losing a quality, humble superstar in Tyreke.

With regards to Tyreke asking for the Kings to draft Cousins, I really think that's out of necessity as well as probability. To be honest our frontcourt is not of contending quality, superstarEvans/Udrih can pass off as a legit starting backcourt on a contender but Thompson/Landry/Hawes is kinda weak at the moment (I am really, really hoping that both JT and spence show tremendous improvement next season). For that reason Tyreke probably wants a big man more than another backcourt mate in say Turner. Also, we have the 3rd worst record and chances are lower for us to get the top 2 picks. So it makes sense for him to hope for Cousins, assuming we get the 3rd or 4th pick.

 

[Prince_XY]

The front office would be stupid NOT to draft Wall.. You don't pass on guys like Wall who is pretty much a superstar before entering the league even..

Correct me if I am wrong, but I remember you or some other fan saying the same sort of words on Rubio before we drafted Evans. And look what we've got on Evans.

 

[Bricklayer]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I remember you or some other fan saying the same sort of words on Rubio before we drafted Evans. And look what we've got on Evans.

Wall is a bit of a different phenomenon. Rubio was mostly known in the States from mixtapes and the transferability of what he was doing as a young player in Europe was a question. Wall has been front and center in the traditional American high school/college feeding system and under the limelight for years. He's not remotely an unknown. There are no guarantees, but its a bit like saying since Rubio didn't work out how can we know a Shaquille O'Neal would? Entirely different phenomenon.

 

[mac]

Wall is a bit of a different phenomenon. Rubio was mostly known in the States from mixtapes and the transferability of what he was doing as a young player in Europe was a question. Wall has been front and center in the traditional American high school/college feeding system and under the limelight for years. He's not remotely an unknown. There are no guarantees, but its a bit like saying since Rubio didn't work out how can we know a Shaquille O'Neal would? Entirely different phenomenon.

so brick, are you personally hoping we manage to land wall?

 

[Bricklayer]

so brick, are you personally hoping we manage to land wall?

I'm personally saying that excessive handwringing over perhaps the most highly thought of PG prospect coming into the league since JKidd is well, odd.

It is a quandry. Wrong year for it. A year ago I was openly in favor of the idea of trading Kevin for the #1 to get Wall if he had managed to get himself into that draft. Now its not perfect. But greatness presents itself so rarely in the NBA. We got stupendously lucky to get a great in Tyreke. If another is sitting there you better be damn sure, and I mean DAMN sure, it ain't going to work before you turn your back on it. If we get the #1 that moment, that decision on Wall could be the key moment that would be pointed to and talked about for a decade or more. You can be the Bowie over Jordan team, or the Vlade for Kobe team, or the Tractor Traylor for Dirk team. You just have to be 100% sure of what you are doing (or that Wall isn't going to be a HOFer), before you kneejerk off a it won't work bit and start angling for lesser players.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I think people are getting carried away with Wall's hype. Personally, I don't see him as a surefire superstar. I don't really see him as being a clearly better prospect than Derrick Rose was either.

 

[Kingster]

The whole perception of this team would have to change. By the owners, by management, by coaches, by the fans, and by the players. This team has been sold as "Tyreke's team" by the owners and by Westphal. If we get Wall, then immediately they would start talking about "team", about the two-headed monster, about Frazier and Monroe, etc. And well they should. The coaches and management would have to sell Wall and Tyreke on the fact that this combo is going to make them even better individually. Why? Because each would have to develop his game off the ball. Tyreke has already shown glimpses of that when he played with Beno, so it's not like Tyreke hasn't played with a pg before in the NBA. Developing that part of their game might take a couple of years, but it's well within the realm of possibility. (If you don't think that Wall or Tyreke could develop their off-the-ball game, then you really don't know how talented they are.) To me, they are both great competitors that hate to lose. That is the biggest reason I see for them being willing to share the spotlight. They would have to know that they have the chance to be something very special. But, like others have said, you don't know how it's going to work until you try it.

One aside. Rest assured that the media would be all over this. There would be many questions posed to each of them about their compatibility, sharing the spotlight, who is better, who gets more commercial endorsements, etc. The media just loves conflict, and if they can't find it they'll do everything they can to create it. From that perspective, it would take some strong personalities to put a stop to the busy-bodies.

 

[bajaden]

First off, I don't think ego is something to be concerned about. People get ego and egocentric confused sometimes. Everyone has an ego. All ego is, is a self awareness of what makes us different from everyone else. Being aware of our distinctions. Now to what degree we self elevate those distinctions is where we can get into trouble. Show me a great player in any sport and I'll show you a person with extreme self confidence, and that usually equals a big ego. But not necessarily someone thats egotistic.

If we get the number one pick, I still lean toward Turner. But I'll happily leave that decision to the FO of the Kings. To my mind Evans appeared to be taking over as the leader of the team last year. Which I think is a good thing. If he can be the star and the leader both, then you have the best of both worlds. It was never going to happen with Martin. Just wasn't in his makeup. But Tyreke looks and acts like a leader on the floor.

Anyone that watched Kentucky play this year knows who the leader of that team was. It was Wall. When the going got tough, there was always one guy that got tougher, and it was Wall. He always wanted the ball when things were going south. He knew he could do some things out there that the others couldn't. Now it didn't always work. But my point is that not only was he the man, he also thought of himself as the Man.

Now you can have more than one star on a team. But you usually only have one player thats the man. There are a lot of stars on the Lakers, but does anyone doubt who the man is? We draft Wall and I think we just might have two players that want to be the man. Evans entire life has been predicated on becoming the man. Becoming one of the greatest players of all time. He may bury his ego behind a shy personality, but make no mistake. Its there. He drips selfconfidence.

Wall on the other hand wears his ego on his sleeve. He's flamboyant. He does everything with flair. He felt he was ready to play in the NBA when he was 16 years old. Do you honestly think he's going to acquies to anyone. I'm not saying it won't work. But team chemistry is a very sensitive thing. Here today and gone tomorrow. Petrie when asked about team chemistry and how you put together a team like the Vlade, Webb team. Said that you have no idea how to create it, and you have no idea whats going to destroy it. The only sure thing, is that you know when you have it.

Getting the number one pick is a nice problem to have. But as Bricky said, the eyes of Sacramento, the NBA, and history will be upon you. You've got to make the right decision. And if Tyreke is to be our star of the future, then let him have some input on the pick.

 

[fnordius]

To put things into perspective, let's look at a team that really DID belong to one player, and where that player's ego had more to do with how the team ran than the coaching staff did.

Although the guy charmed and intimidated the press so completely that nobody would cover the stories of bullying, infidelities, and so on, eventually it leaked out about the way he punched teammates in the face, and verbally insulted and harassed them until, in one case, the team's center said that if he didn't STFU he was going to break both the guy's legs and end his career. We are, of course, talking about Michael Jordan's Bulls.

Now, I'm not bringing this up to go off topic into a discussion of whether or not it's worth repeat championships to let an out-of-control ******* of a superstar treat a team that way. Unless you think that Tyreke's character is similar to MJ's (which I totally don't), then we don't have to worry about whether it's okay to let your star player run the team on fear.

When Kevin was made the face of the franchise, did you think he'd start acting like that? No, that's unimaginable. Almost as unimaginable for Tyreke, who is generally characterized as quiet, and easy to get along with. Nor do I think that, when the FO appointed those guys as team leaders, that they meant that they could or should act like MJ. They are the #1 guys to sell jerseys and tickets, sure, but they haven't been appointed as team tyrants.

Here are some quotes from Wall's teammates:

"John doesn't have an ego at all, he's a really nice guy," said Daniel Orton, a UK teammate and fellow freshman. Orton says Wall is as humble as they come.

"He's not arrogant at all," said fellow Cats Darnell Dodson. "He's probably one of the hardest workers in practice every day."

They love him because he gives them all the credit for his celebrity.
"If it wasn't for them, I wouldn't get all the easy shots that I get a game, so they're happy for me," said Wall.

"He's just a normal kid and he's a quiet kid, that's the thing about it," Orton added.

http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=12080122

I just don't see a huge ego war in this.

 

[Uncia03]

I just don't see a huge ego war in this.

As I mentioned earlier, I'm not going to characterize this as an Ego thing.

However, if you're John Wall and you're being forced to play off the ball, and Tyreke isn't setting you up or allowing you to shine and display your superstar talents, then the understandable reaction would be to go and take that ball and make things happen.

If Tyreke had shown me anything in regards to playing off-the-ball, perhaps I'd feel a bit more confident with Wall taking the ball and running the show.
But if Wall collapses the defense and then kicks out to Tyreke, what will Tyreke do? The defense will be packed in tight under the basket, and the natural thing to do would be to take the open shot, or take an escape dribble and hit the shot, and neither of those are Tyreke's strengths.

And if Wall is dribbling looking for cutters, Tyreke showed very little ability in cutting and moving off the ball. I mean it happened a few times during the year, but those instances were few and far between.

If Wall had a great mid-range game, then I think it could work with Tyreke handling the ball and kicking it to Wall. Unfortunately, Wall's mid-range game is one of his weaker aspects. I expect his shooting and mid-range game to improve greatly over his career, but it will be a struggle coming into the NBA. And when you have a dynamic young rookie, you really want to do everything in your power to help maximize his strengths while minimizing his weaknesses, and forcing Wall to play off the ball will really put him in a position to underachieve.

I love Tyreke's demeanor and think he's a class act. I also really like Wall and his competitiveness and desire to win. I'm just not convinced that Wall's talent is so vastly superior to Turner that you have to take Wall even if it might not make the team better than choosing Turner.

 

[bajaden]

To put things into perspective, let's look at a team that really DID belong to one player, and where that player's ego had more to do with how the team ran than the coaching staff did.

Although the guy charmed and intimidated the press so completely that nobody would cover the stories of bullying, infidelities, and so on, eventually it leaked out about the way he punched teammates in the face, and verbally insulted and harassed them until, in one case, the team's center said that if he didn't STFU he was going to break both the guy's legs and end his career. We are, of course, talking about Michael Jordan's Bulls.

Now, I'm not bringing this up to go off topic into a discussion of whether or not it's worth repeat championships to let an out-of-control ******* of a superstar treat a team that way. Unless you think that Tyreke's character is similar to MJ's (which I totally don't), then we don't have to worry about whether it's okay to let your star player run the team on fear.

When Kevin was made the face of the franchise, did you think he'd start acting like that? No, that's unimaginable. Almost as unimaginable for Tyreke, who is generally characterized as quiet, and easy to get along with. Nor do I think that, when the FO appointed those guys as team leaders, that they meant that they could or should act like MJ. They are the #1 guys to sell jerseys and tickets, sure, but they haven't been appointed as team tyrants.

Here are some quotes from Wall's teammates:
http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=12080122

I just don't see a huge ego war in this.

Thanks for the article. Very nice to hear what his teammates think of him. I hope you didn't misunderstand what I was trying to say in my post. By no means did I mean to imply that Evans and Wall couldn't get along. My reference is more about the chemistry of the team in total. Two very good players can get along and really like one another, but because of their skill sets and the position they play, not be as effective as you would like.

There's no doubt that the Kings would be a better team with both Wall and Evans on it. The question isn't really who is the best player, but who is the best fit, that would make you better. With emphasis on the word Better. Now there's no way to know how things will work out, but lets just say we have a crystal ball into the future. And when we look at that crystal ball, Wall ends up being superstar and a HOF inductee. But the Kings are a better team with, lets say Cousins and Evans and win more games than they are with Wall and Evans.

Now having that information, do you draft the HOFer Wall, or Cousins who makes the team better overall. Now I realize that there's no way to know that. But I do think you have take everything into consideration. Let me give you a what if scenario.

What if the Kings leapfrog the Nets into the 1st spot. But the Nets hang on to the 2nd spot. If you read all the papers back there you'll see that the Nets are lusting after Wall big time. The Nets also hold the 27th pick in the draft and the first pick in the second round. Would you be willing to swap the 1st pick for their 2nd pick along with the 27th and the first pick in the second round?

We would pick up two additional picks and still have our choice of Turner, Cousins, and Favors.

 

[Gary]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I remember you or some other fan saying the same sort of words on Rubio before we drafted Evans. And look what we've got on Evans.

?? I didn't say there was a 99.99999% chance at drafting Rubio. Truthfully I didn't even think he would fall to us.. This thread has nothing to do with Rubio either.. Geez.. let it go already.. It's been almost a year.

 

[fnordius]

I'm personally saying that excessive handwringing over perhaps the most highly thought of PG prospect coming into the league since JKidd is well, odd.

Leftover vitriol from last year's draft-related arguments probably has something to do with it.

 

[hammystyle]

The front office would be stupid NOT to draft Wall.. You don't pass on guys like Wall who is pretty much a superstar before entering the league even..

If we get the #1 pick then you will see the Kings draft John Wall.. This I am 99.99999% sure of. As for egos? Who cares.. It's something that two people can work out between themselves. If they end up hating each other for some reason then you would look into trading one of them..

This is the side that I disagree with. There is one time you can pass on a guaranteed superstar, and that's when there's basically another guaranteed superstar in Evan Turner. These prospects are much much closer than I think people on this board are giving them credit for. One is a 6'3" PPG who's like a love child of Dwyane Wade and Allen Iverson in the open court, and the other is a 6'7" do it all shooting guard who basically rates at a solid A for every discernible quality accept athleticism, where he's a B.

I've seen nothing that tells me why Wall is rated as the surefire better player than Turner. I just think it has to do with reputation earned before this season. They're 1A and 1B to me, and I have Turner as 1A.

However, if Petrie sees it differently, has the opportunity and takes Wall #1 I will flat out be thrilled. Count me amongst those that thinks it can work. I think it counts for something that they both learned in Calipari's dribble-drive offense. I think if we had them both Tyreke would be the one moved off the ball...and he'd quickly learn a dominant post game. The only thing I'd be worried about is that I might kill myself reading "ball dominant" on this board all summer.

 

[Gary]

I agree with the bottom part.. If we were to get either I would be happy.

I do dread getting the #1 because even though we do have #1 and if Petrie were to draft Turner we would have a bunch of pissed off fans who wanted Wall..

Can't say that if we have #2 because I am pretty sure it would be Turner, and the fans would all be happy..

If we had the #3 it's got to be Cousins, or Favors. Either one I would be happy with although I prefer Cousins..

#4 and we get the leftover of Cousins/Favors... Which again, I would be happy.

#5 and I think we might miss out on a sure thing.

 

[Prince_XY]

I agree with the bottom part.. If we were to get either I would be happy.

I do dread getting the #1 because even though we do have #1 and if Petrie were to draft Turner we would have a bunch of pissed off fans who wanted Wall..

Can't say that if we have #2 because I am pretty sure it would be Turner, and the fans would all be happy..

If we had the #3 it's got to be Cousins, or Favors. Either one I would be happy with although I prefer Cousins..

#4 and we get the leftover of Cousins/Favors... Which again, I would be happy.

#5 and I think we might miss out on a sure thing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but by this new post I guess you mean the front office would not be STUPID afterall if they pass on Wall in favor of Turner when pretty much Wall is a superstar before entering the league.

Now I am happy for the more than 50% fans ( especially for myself and Bajaden ) who voted for Turner over Wall at this point in time. That means they are not stupidly wrong.

 

[fnordius]

Now I am happy for the more than 50% fans ( especially for myself and Bajaden ) who voted for Turner over Wall at this point in time. That means they are not stupidly wrong.

You seem to be assuming that the results of 70-some votes on this website are going to be the same as the opinions of maybe a thousand times that many Kings fans scattered across the globe. That might not be a safe bet. The rank and file fan may be swayed by things like Sports Illustrated, or mock drafts, which have had Wall at #1 for quite a while now. The pro-Wall PR, right or wrong, is a force to be reckoned with.

Nobody's calling anyone STUPID, I don't think. But it's necessarily both a basketball issue and a PR issue, whether we like that or not.

 

[Prince_XY]

Nobody's calling anyone STUPID, I don't think.

Maybe the quote below may clear something.

The front office would be stupid NOT to draft Wall.. You don't pass on guys like Wall who is pretty much a superstar before entering the league even..

.

You seem to be assuming that the results of 70-some votes on this website are going to be the same as the opinions of maybe a thousand times that many Kings fans scattered across the globe. That might not be a safe bet. The rank and file fan may be swayed by things like Sports Illustrated, or mock drafts, which have had Wall at #1 for quite a while now. The pro-Wall PR, right or wrong, is a force to be reckoned with.

No. I am not assuming it would be the same, neither do I think our voters here at Kingsfans Forum are statistically good enough representative of Kings fans across the globe.

My post refers only to the fans who voted for Turner instead of Wall ( at the polls in another thread ) As you can see, if Gary thinks the front office would be stupid NOT to draft Wall because you don't pass on guys like Wall who is pretty much a superstar, then all who voted in the poll here at Kingsfans Forum who wouldn't draft Wall because of Turner are also stupid.

 

[bajaden]

Maybe the quote below may clear something.



.


No. I am not assuming it would be the same, neither do I think our voters here at Kingsfans Forum is a good representative of voters across the globe.

My post refers only to the fans who voted for Turner instead of Wall ( at the polls in another thread ) As you can see, if Gary thinks the front office would be stupid NOT to draft Wall because you don't pass on guys like Wall who is pretty much a superstar, then all who voted in the poll here at Kingsfans Forum who wouldn't draft Wall because of Turner are also stupid.

I follow your logic, and understand your point. However, I don't think Gary mean't to imply that everyone who might disagree with him is stupid.

 

[fnordius]

As you can see, if Gary thinks the front office would be stupid NOT to draft Wall because you don't pass on guys like Wall who is pretty much a superstar, then all who voted in the poll here at Kingsfans Forum who wouldn't draft Wall because of Turner are also stupid.

What's stupid for one party isn't necessarily stupid for another. If I go downtown, get falling down drunk, and get arrested, that's pretty stupid. If Geoff Petrie were to do it, it would be incomprehensibly idiotic. Bad PR now could lose us the franchise. It's an entertainment business, and fan and public relations are the difference between life and death.

Participants in anonymous Internet polls are not the equivalent of Geoff Petrie.

 

[LilMissDiva]

I didn't hear it until just now, but if Tyreke said he wants Cousins, then Cousins he'll get (seeing he is still available during our pick). That which would make all this (as Rick Springfield so eloquently put it) point as moot.

Just my two cents.

 

[LilMissDiva]

The OP in another thread said that Evan Turner is the type of player who would be ideal playing next to Tyreke. And that Evan Turner is also the type of player who would be ideal playing next to John Wall, and that both John Wall or Tyreke Evans and their teams would benefit tremendously from having a player like Turner next to them.
I thought this was very well said and agree 100%. From a team perspective I think a Wall/Turner or an Evans/Turner backcourt would be superior to an Evans/Wall backcourt.

One final thought:

I'd love to have back-to-back ROY awards. John Wall has a very good chance of winning it, but in my opinion, it would be at the expense of Tyreke's game. On the other hand, I also believe that Evan Turner has a very good chance of winning it, but I can see Tyreke's game flourishing, in addition to Turner winning the award, and that in my mind would be the most optimal outcome.

Excellently put! Needs over wants. Just like last year. Everyone "wanted" Rubio. We see now how that worked out.