Drummond Workout 6/14/12

[Gilles]

You can take the horse to the water but you can't make it drink!

Drummond obviously has all the tools to be a superstar but if (and I say if because I don't know) he does not have the desire, hunger and work ethic to get there he will NEVER be any good! Darko was a very talented big man and could have been a perennial all star but he lacked what he needed to have to get ther...and no it was not talent!

It could work but it could also bust in a major way! With MKG you know what you are getting and you are certain he will work the hardest for longest to try and be the best he possibly could be!

I think MKG is very talented but to me he is a bit like Vlade in a sense that his greatest worth is his ability to bring everyone together and sometimes that is more valuable than talent!

I agree and for this particular team MKG is perfect if you forget about shooting for a second (and it's reported he's shooting better than expected in workouts much like Leonard last year). But when you think of potential of fully developed pairing Cousins-Drummond, well, the other team will have to take their poison and maybe play some SF at PF/C because of all the fouls.
Often you could see in the second halves the effect of Cousins wearing down the other team's frontline with his physicality. Now you may double the physical presence and opponents can't hide the weakest link. There's a reason Aldridge or Garnett don't want to play center - banging really drains your energy. Think, for example, how Ibaka will feel after pushing contest against 270 pounds body. Will he fly all night?
Will he bust? Yes, there's absolutely a possibility. He has a great body type - very strong legs and overall lower body. It means there's less pressure on his knees and back, which means he won't bust like Oden. He has very good hands so he will be better than Kwame or Jordan. He's more mobile and explosive than Jordan. Even though Jordan has higher running vertical explosiveness mean more for finishing. All I'm trying to say if Drummond busts you still get improved Jordan who can co-exist defensively with Cousins. It's not a low floor.

 

[cuad]

Too many Drummond jock riders in here. This is a guy WHO IS AFRAID OF CONTACT and want to be a guard.

 

[mac]

Too many Drummond jock riders in here. This is a guy WHO IS AFRAID OF CONTACT and want to be a guard.

Dude, you're in love with Hassan Whiteside!

 

[Boogie-havoc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXB6vc5Z_A4&feature=relmfu



I know these are mere high school highlights and I know Drummond has only 2.7 blocks per game to show in his only year in College. But please watch carefully these high school highlights of Drummond and then tell me which HOF BIG in the NBA moved better than Drummond during their teenage years.

I bet not too many.

Just like Cousins, this Drummond kid is a rare kind.

I don't need to watch nor am I excited and going out of my ways cause of high-school youtube mix.

I watched him throughout this season playing collage basketball on a consistent basis. And needless to say I was hardly impressed despite his combination of physical and athletic ability (who again, he hardly even uses shying away from contact) - And that made me genuinely scared to death that my team might pick him up, while ignoring everything their eyes must have saw when they watched him play.


Cousins, mind you, absolutely dominated collage level in just about an historic proportion in terms of advanced stats.
Like Drummond, he had amazing physical gifts that could allow him to be dominant - but unlike Drummond, he actually showed the willingness to use them, hunger to win and compete, and real basketball skills.

Comparing Drummond to Cousins based on some silly highschool youtube mix is ridiculous. The only talent Drummond has is in terms of physical and athletic ability - and he hardly uses the first one.

 

[Uncia03]

I don't need to watch nor am I excited and going out of my ways cause of high-school youtube mix.

I watched him throughout this season playing collage basketball on a consistent basis. And needless to say I was hardly impressed despite his combination of physical and athletic ability (who again, he hardly even uses shying away from contact) - And that made me genuinely scared to death that my team might pick him up, while ignoring everything their eyes must have saw when they watched him play.


Cousins, mind you, absolutely dominated collage level in just about an historic proportion in terms of advanced stats.
Like Drummond, he had amazing physical gifts that could allow him to be dominant - but unlike Drummond, he actually showed the willingness to use them, hunger to win and compete, and real basketball skills.

Comparing Drummond to Cousins based on some silly highschool youtube mix is ridiculous. The only talent Drummond has is in terms of physical and athletic ability - and he hardly uses the first one.

Agree on all counts.

I LOVED Cousins and felt he was the best big man in college with-out question.
I might have actually stopped supporting this team if it had made the major error of not drafting Cousins when he slipped to #5.

Cousins made an impact on the court while playing college ball. If you watched a Kentucky game (and didn't know anything about the team), by the end of that game you'd know that Cousins was a dominant player.

In fact, I had my wife watch one of Kentucky's games prior to the draft to highlight both Cousins and John Wall. After the game she turned to me and said, "I want Cousins." Cousins stood out to her as the dominant player on the floor over Wall.

Now Drummond....
You could seriously watch 2-3 UCONN games in a row last season, and if you didn't know any of the players, you might not be able to even remember Drummond's name afterwards. He was simply that forgettable for large stretches all year long.
He didn't have anywhere near the impact on the floor that he could/should have, which is why GMs are scared of him and why he could slip in the draft.
We all know that he has the body and the athleticism right now to be a dominant NBA player, so why was he so forgettable when going up against college kids? It's the question that GMs have to be concerned about.

I'm not saying he's going to be a bust, and if we did draft him, I'll be hoping beyond hope that he reaches his potential, because from a potential standpoint he'd be perfect next to Cousins and an absolute monster.

 

[Siranthony]

I don't need to watch nor am I excited and going out of my ways cause of high-school youtube mix.

I watched him throughout this season playing collage basketball on a consistent basis. And needless to say I was hardly impressed despite his combination of physical and athletic ability (who again, he hardly even uses shying away from contact) - And that made me genuinely scared to death that my team might pick him up, while ignoring everything their eyes must have saw when they watched him play.


Cousins, mind you, absolutely dominated collage level in just about an historic proportion in terms of advanced stats.
Like Drummond, he had amazing physical gifts that could allow him to be dominant - but unlike Drummond, he actually showed the willingness to use them, hunger to win and compete, and real basketball skills.

Comparing Drummond to Cousins based on some silly highschool youtube mix is ridiculous. The only talent Drummond has is in terms of physical and athletic ability - and he hardly uses the first one.

I really don't see how you can make such harsh judgements on an 18 yo in his rookie season. I think he is entering the draft prematurely. But his physical tallents alone warrant serious consideration.

 

[upinsmoke]

I really don't see how you can make such harsh judgements on an 18 yo in his rookie season. I think he is entering the draft prematurely. But his physical tallents alone warrant serious consideration.

And they will just not in the top 5 imo.

 

[Glenn]

I really don't see how you can make such harsh judgements on an 18 yo in his rookie season. I think he is entering the draft prematurely. But his physical tallents alone warrant serious consideration.

Well, he has received serious attention and I hope someone picks him before we are even tempted. The mega stars have #1 magnificent physical skills, #2 the desire to be the best, and #3 work out endlessly. Drummond has #1 and I don't know about #3. The end result is he plays like an invisible man.

I have a question for those who studied him as I seldom saw him on the court. I didn't have the patience to see if he could make a play. Did he ever play facing the basket? I know he has little skill with his back to the basket and even he admits that. My analysis of the high school video is that he is better facing the basket than the opposite. That's as kind as I can be.

I don't know if the quote was a joke or not but didn't one team call off the Drummond work out when he made 1-4 fts? He has poor if not putrid mechanics. As free throwers face the basket, it seems like he can't even face the basket. Groan. There is no law saying we have to draft him.

 

[Uncia03]

Well, he has received serious attention and I hope someone picks him before we are even tempted. The mega stars have #1 magnificent physical skills, #2 the desire to be the best, and #3 work out endlessly. Drummond has #1 and I don't know about #3. The end result is he plays like an invisible man.

I have a question for those who studied him as I seldom saw him on the court. I didn't have the patience to see if he could make a play. Did he ever play facing the basket? I know he has little skill with his back to the basket and even he admits that. My analysis of the high school video is that he is better facing the basket than the opposite. That's as kind as I can be.

I don't know if the quote was a joke or not but didn't one team call off the Drummond work out when he made 1-4 fts? He has poor if not putrid mechanics. As free throwers face the basket, it seems like he can't even face the basket. Groan. There is no law saying we have to draft him.

I'll be honest, I didn't really watch him for his offense.
To me, if we draft him and he never develops an offensive game that will be perfectly fine as long as he can reach his massive defensive potential.

I remember him taking a lot of post fade-away jumpers that didn't go in, but most of his points seemed to come from running the floor in transition, offensive-rebound put-backs, and guards dumping it to him right under the basket.

You have to understand that UCONN had Shabaz Napier and Boatwright as their two guards, and they both dominated the ball on the offensive-end. That is actually one of the biggest criticisms of Jeremy Lamb. Lamb was the best offensive player on the entire team, but he didn't demand the ball and get it out of the hands of Napier and Boatwright the way that he should have.

So if the team's best offensive player was having problems getting the ball enough, imagine how difficult it would have been for Drummond who came to the team late and isn't a major offensive star.

So I basically give him a pass for not being a good offensive player last year. My concerns for him are the fact that he didn't rebound the ball or impact the game in other ways to show he was supposed to be the top 1/2 college player in the game.

 

[Dime Dropper]

To be fair to Drummond, when Uconn had their backs against the walls in the tourney, I saw him make numerous big plays by blocking shots when the game was on the line. Offensively is a different story mainly because Napier think's he's LeBron, but I think he deserves credit for making some big defensive plays for them. Sorry I can't be more specific on the games it happened in, but I specifically remember being surprised that he came up big, simply because I had been so disappointed in his play before this.

 

[funkykingston]

Kwame Brown and Desagana Diop made $7 million last year. Kendrick Perkins will make between $8 million and $9 million over the next couple years. Marcus Camby (who is now 38) earned over $9 million last year. DeAndre Jordan signed for $10 million a year. And Tyson Chandler is signed for between $13.5 million and $14.5 million over the next three years.

The way I see it, the Kings draft plans around Andre Drummond come down to this pretty simple thought process:

If you think he is going to be a star, you take him.
If you don't think he's going to be a star but another guy on the board is, you take that guy instead.
If you don't see any guys on the board that you think will be a star, you draft Drummond.

Because if it comes down to that last case scenario, a mediocre big man with good size and athleticism is an absolute bargain when you look at the going rates for guys with even minimal statistical production. If Drummond ends up giving the Kings what DeAndre Jordan gives the Clippers the Kings are getting an absolute bargain considering their relative salaries.

Because the Kings need another big body. And I say that hoping that Jason Thompson comes back. If he doesn't the Kings go from needing one to desperately having to have one.

MKG at #5 and a trade for Dalembert would be fantastic, but I'd worry about whether he'd stay after the season. Andre Drummond at #5 and a trade for a late 1st to nab Jeff Taylor would be awesome as well.

 

[roasthawg]

Kwame Brown and Desagana Diop made $7 million last year. Kendrick Perkins will make between $8 million and $9 million over the next couple years. Marcus Camby (who is now 38) earned over $9 million last year. DeAndre Jordan signed for $10 million a year. And Tyson Chandler is signed for between $13.5 million and $14.5 million over the next three years.

The way I see it, the Kings draft plans around Andre Drummond come down to this pretty simple thought process:

If you think he is going to be a star, you take him.
If you don't think he's going to be a star but another guy on the board is, you take that guy instead.
If you don't see any guys on the board that you think will be a star, you draft Drummond.

Because if it comes down to that last case scenario, a mediocre big man with good size and athleticism is an absolute bargain when you look at the going rates for guys with even minimal statistical production. If Drummond ends up giving the Kings what DeAndre Jordan gives the Clippers the Kings are getting an absolute bargain considering their relative salaries.

Because the Kings need another big body. And I say that hoping that Jason Thompson comes back. If he doesn't the Kings go from needing one to desperately having to have one.

MKG at #5 and a trade for Dalembert would be fantastic, but I'd worry about whether he'd stay after the season. Andre Drummond at #5 and a trade for a late 1st to nab Jeff Taylor would be awesome as well.

Really a good point about the money involved. And with Drummond's nba body he's a guy that might not have the skill set to ever be a huge star but his college production should be able to translate to the pros no problem. So if a 10/7/2.5 line is worth $10mil a year then Drummond might just be a steal at #5.

 

[Uncia03]

Yesterday I came across a note that Clifford Ray was the key to development of Kendrick Perkins and Al Jefferson who is often praised (only Big Al, of course) for having one of the best low post techniques in the NBA. After quick research it seems like Ray was instrumental in the development of...wait for it...Dwight Howard.

Just wanted to mention an ESPN article I read today where it's 5 Hall of Fame SFs commenting on LeBron and Durant's games.
Here is what Rick Berry said in regards to Durant:

Quoted by Rick Berry
"The kid should really have the ball in his hands even more. He doesn't have it in his hands enough. He also needs to get down in the low post -- get with Clifford Ray -- and work on his inside game. With his size and his passing ability, he's got to develop a post game. You need to be able to have that."

Just thought this was a nice shout-out from Rick Berry.

We all think Ray did a great job with our bigs, especially JT last season, so hopefully he'll continue to be a part of our coaching staff.

Here is the link to the ESPN article: http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story/_/id/8077648/nba-finals-lebron-james-kevin-durant-greatest-small-forwards

 

[Glenn]

Really a good point about the money involved. And with Drummond's nba body he's a guy that might not have the skill set to ever be a huge star but his college production should be able to translate to the pros no problem. So if a 10/7/2.5 line is worth $10mil a year then Drummond might just be a steal at #5.

Drummmond had no skill in college. That's not a steal.

 

[Telemachus]

Just wanted to mention an ESPN article I read today where it's 5 Hall of Fame SFs commenting on LeBron and Durant's games.
Here is what Rick Berry said in regards to Durant:


Just thought this was a nice shout-out from Rick Berry.

We all think Ray did a great job with our bigs, especially JT last season, so hopefully he'll continue to be a part of our coaching staff.

Here is the link to the ESPN article: http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story/_/id/8077648/nba-finals-lebron-james-kevin-durant-greatest-small-forwards

When Rick Barry was on KNBR, he used talk about Cliffard Ray being the best big man coach in the NBA.

 

[BMiller52]

Drummond declined to work out with the Warriors at 7 so I'm wondering if he has a promise from us or Portland?

 

[mac]

Just wanted to mention an ESPN article I read today where it's 5 Hall of Fame SFs commenting on LeBron and Durant's games.
Here is what Rick Berry said in regards to Durant:


Just thought this was a nice shout-out from Rick Berry.

We all think Ray did a great job with our bigs, especially JT last season, so hopefully he'll continue to be a part of our coaching staff.

Here is the link to the ESPN article: http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story/_/id/8077648/nba-finals-lebron-james-kevin-durant-greatest-small-forwards

I agree with Rick that Durant didn't get the ball enough, and didn't get the ball in the right spots. The Thunder and Durant didn't work hard enough to get him the ball. He was so easily fronted by James or Battier and Westbrook never had the confidence to try to get it to him.

 

[SacTownKid]

When Rick Barry was on KNBR, he used talk about Cliffard Ray being the best big man coach in the NBA.

Warriors connects.

 

[SacTownKid]

Drummond declined to work out with the Warriors at 7 so I'm wondering if he has a promise from us or Portland?

Hope it's us.

 

[Return To Glory]

Hope it's us.

+1

 

[Return To Glory]

Andre Drummond at #5 and a trade for a late 1st to nab Jeff Taylor would be awesome as well.

I hope the Kings are at least considering this as an option.

 

[KingsCitizen]

Clifford Ray is the reason why i would feel that drafting Drummond is worth the risk. Aside from D12, Ray has developed a lot of big men that can't even get halfway to Drummond's athletic gifts.

 

[beb0p]

Drummond declined to work out with the Warriors at 7 so I'm wondering if he has a promise from us or Portland?

Highly doubt the Kings will pick Drummond, not with a GM who desperately needs to show some results and a coach who's trying to hang on to his job. They need somebody who can contribute now. I will not have a problem with the Kings picking Drummond.

But the chatter is that Portland is very interested with Drummond.

 

[Telemachus]

Clifford Ray is the reason why i would feel that drafting Drummond is worth the risk. Aside from D12, Ray has developed a lot of big men that can't even get halfway to Drummond's athletic gifts.

Clifford Ray would be a great teacher for Drummond, but a teacher can't get a player the motor or desire he needs to be a good player. Too me, that is the biggest question with Drummond; how motivated is he to be a good player. I didn't see any watching him in college.

 

[Glenn]

Clifford Ray would be a great teacher for Drummond, but a teacher can't get a player the motor or desire he needs to be a good player. Too me, that is the biggest question with Drummond; how motivated is he to be a good player. I didn't see any watching him in college.

Well, then, perhaps the question has already been answered.

 

[Gary]

In fact, I had my wife watch one of Kentucky's games prior to the draft to highlight both Cousins and John Wall. After the game she turned to me and said, "I want Cousins." Cousins stood out to her as the dominant player on the floor over Wall.

Now Drummond....
You could seriously watch 2-3 UCONN games in a row last season, and if you didn't know any of the players, you might not be able to even remember Drummond's name afterwards. He was simply that forgettable for large stretches all year long.
He didn't have anywhere near the impact on the floor that he could/should have, which is why GMs are scared of him and why he could slip in the draft.
We all know that he has the body and the athleticism right now to be a dominant NBA player, so why was he so forgettable when going up against college kids? It's the question that GMs have to be concerned about.

Agree.. When I started watching Cousins I knew he would be good.

When I started watching Drummond this year I thought to myself "what a waste of a great basketball body". I am a UCONN hater but I didn't need to be a hater to know Drummond was wasting the potential he had. He's just not that good of a basketball player, and I have no idea why people are riding his jock either.

 

[Telemachus]

Agree.. When I started watching Cousins I knew he would be good.

When I started watching Drummond this year I thought to myself "what a waste of a great basketball body". I am a UCONN hater but I didn't need to be a hater to know Drummond was wasting the potential he had. He's just not that good of a basketball player, and I have no idea why people are riding his jock either.

I think that MOST of the people who are the Drummond band wagon have mainly watched highlights his play(mainly from HS).

 

[Gary]

Drummond....

1. Can't rebound
2. Can't play consistent defense
3. Has a bad motor
4. Has crappy motivation
5. Can't shoot to save his life
6. Can't hit free throws
7. Terrible at getting defensive positioning


There is much more than that. Anyhow, I don't think I want a big who can't rebound who is inconsistent on D and can't box anyone out to save his life. Not to mention the guy is non-existent on the offensive end.

No thanks.

 

[Boogie-havoc]

You guys do bring up great points in having Clifford Ray first and foremost - and also that he'll be an asset no matter what due to his style and physical/athletic attributes and tons of potential.

To me, and i've said it a few months during the NCAA season - Drummond = DeAndre Jordan.

Remember how we came into Clippers games making sidebets if he'll foul-out of the game once we're done counting "10 Mississippi" in his 2nd season? yea - me too.. just making sure we're all still remembering what a project really means.

One thing (arguably the only) about Drummond that I was repeatedly impressed with watching him, was the way his moves his feet on defense.
For a guy his size, whenever he got switched on a small out on the perimeter, he really looked very impressive to me, it was one of the only parts of his game when he was really engaged - he lowers his body, gets into a stance and just really moves and slides like a forward.. in a Pick and Roll league - that's one of the biggest things I thought worked in his favor and could translate almost instantly.

Now, I would absolutely trade down for my Iggy trade way before I even think about picking him - But Clifford Ray being here is a major + for the pro-Drummond gang argument, I will say that.

But then I remember how I watched Drummond constantly stepping out of the way instead of getting defensive rebounds, not even thinking about boxing out, getting out hustled and out worked to boards by 6'6 210 pounds guys even in crucial situations looking like a confused 15 year old with a 30 year old body - and the absolute fear of picking him comes crawling right back into my eyes pushing that tiny bit of positive u guys brought right into the corner.

 

[bajaden]

It just baffles me how people who watched Drummond consistently this year (And trust me, with some people i'd be more inclined to believe they watched maybe a game + a bucket load of youtube clips instead) - can be so confident about him turning out good, and him growing up to be a beast and somneone we "can't afford to miss on".

I just can't understand it. Were we watching the same guy play? are you sure?

I watched Cousins play almost every college game he was in. And I never had a doubt that he was going to be a very good, if not a great player. I said as much on this fourm over and over again. I watched Drummond play almost as many times as Cousins, and I have serious doubts that he'll ever be a good player, much less a great player. Now why is that you suppose? I'm the same guy watching both players and coming away with two entirely different oppinions.

I had no dog in this hunt. I looked forward to seeing Drummond play, and I was mostly disappointed. Davis and Drummond started out with equal praise and expectations. Davis lived up to those expectations and Drummond didn't. To watch youtube videos and say that Drummond is just as talented as Cousins is one of the stupidest things I ever read on this fourm. And I'm not referring to you Boogie. I suspose if you want something bad enough, you can find a way to talk yourself into it.

I don't want to sound like I'm bashing Drummond. I truely wish him the best. But I do think everyone thats jumping on that bandwagon needs to step back and ask yourself why, just about every GM and scout is scared to death of drafting him. If I'm choosing between Drummond and MKG, I don't even have to think about it. I guarantee you MKG is going to be a very good basketball player. I can't guarantee a dammed thing about Drummond. There were people on this fourm two years ago that wanted us to draft Whiteside with our first round pick. Which was totally ridiculous. Anyone that watched him play would know he was far from ready to play in the NBA. Ditto Thabeet! Don't you people ever learn your lesson?

Now I'll give you this. Drummond is a better prospect than either Whiteside or Thabeet at the same junction of his career. But he has the same problems they had. Very poor BBIQ. Along with poor motivation. Believe it or not, your not an island as a basketball player. You have to play with four teammates. You have to fight for post position, which he doesn't half the time. You have to block out for rebounds, which he seldom does. You have to rebound out of your position, which he almost never does. In college you can stand under the basket and goaltend. You can't do that in the NBA. You actually have to guard the perimeter at times. Guard the pick and roll. Rotate on defense. Similar problems that Thabeet had, and resulted in him being a fish out of water from the get go. Cousins made Thabeet look like a wooden post when he lured him out to the top of the key, and then just put the ball on the floor and went around him.

Does Drummond have all the physical tools to be a special player? Damm right he does. Its not the tools I'm worried about. Its the person using the tools! If we do indeed end up drafting him, I'm praying Clifford Ray can work some magic.