Dream Scenarios

[KingsFanGER]

PO teams are not allocating PT for projects. You either produce, or you sit. There are always injuries, foul trouble and just plain ineffectiveness of players ahead on the depth chart, i.e. opportunities. Guys like Jimmy Butler, Khris Middleton or Draymond Green were buried deep on the benches, but players ahead of them became unavailable, and they pounced on their chances.
Where Nik was drafted is mostly irrelevant at this point, unless FO is trying to sell him to another team and use it as an argument. Kings should evaluate, who they actually drafted, now that they have observed Nik for a year. If they think, he can become a guy worth significantly more than MLE, they should absolutely do everything they can to speed up his development, but he gets time, only when he's ready or there's no one else better available. You can't prevent talent with excellent determination from developing. If it takes him half a season longer, then so be it.

But we are no playoff team.
We are a lottery team with only a limited amount of capspace and basically no major trade assets.
Our biggest concern moving forward is not position of the first SG off the bench. Lets fix the starting 5 first. I don't want Nik starting over Ben. But I don't see the reasoning to waste capspace on just another SG, that would most likely be a journeyman FA, because no above average SG would sign in SAC unless we overpay him.

 

[Gilles]

According to Vlade they plan to be one this upcoming season, so it would make sense to act like they mean it. Karl said he wants playmaking help at the 2 (well, he said a lot of things), so Kings should offer $4 million to Belinelli or $6 million to Stuckey to name two and look, if they take it. If Kings find a solution to PF, but it eats all the cap space, well, at least find some vet min wing to cover for Sauce, if he's not good to go come training camp.

P.S. People miss the fact, that Karl didn't give Nik minutes in half the games, Kings actually tried to compete in. He got his minutes vs Knicks, Sixers and Lakers though.

 

[kingsboi]

playmaking at the two would help but let's not fool ourselves here....we need defense in the worst way. We need players that won't be black holes when you put them in the line up.

 

[hrdboild]

Speaking of dream scenarios, I was playing around with the ESPN draft simulator, and got this unlikely selection:

Which looks like the perfect setup to nab Nerlens Noel and led me to coming up with the following dream off-season...

Kings trade #1 and Nik Stauskas to Philly for #6, #11, and Nerlens Noel
[Sixers draft Karl Towns (#1) and Emmanual Mudiay (#3)]
Kings draft Stanley Johnson #6 overall
Kings trade #11 and Jason Thompson to Memphis for Tony Allen
Kings sign Rajon Rondo for 3 years, 21 million
Kings s&t Carl Landry and Ray McCallum for Kyle O'Quinn (2 years, 9 million) and Moe Harkless
Kings sign Omri Casspi (2 years, 6 million)
Kings sign Thomas Robinson using MLE (3 years, 13.5 million)

STARTERS:
PG Rajon Rondo
SG Ben McLemore
SF Rudy Gay
PF Nerlens Noel
C DeMarcus Cousins

BENCH:
PG Darren Collison
SG Tony Allen, Moe Harkless
SF Stanley Johnson, Omri Casspi
PF Thomas Robinson, Eric Moreland
C Kyle O'Quinn

PAYROLL:
D. Cousins 14.7
R. Gay 12.4
R. Rondo 7
D. Collison 5
T. Allen 5.1
K. O'Quinn 4.5
N. Noel 3.5
T. Robinson 3.5
B. McLemore 3.1
M. Harkless 2.9
S. Johnson 2.7
O. Casspi 2.5
W. Ellington 1
E. Moreland .8
D. Stockton .8

TOTAL 69.5 M

Maybe that's not the type of star power some people are hoping for, but I see a team there with a good mix of battle tested veterans (Rondo and Allen won a championship together in Boston, Rudy and DeMarcus won the FIBA world cup with Team USA last summer) and young talent to develop for the future (McLemore, Noel, Johnson, Harkless, Robinson, Moreland) to ensure our playoff run is sustained for years to come. I see no weak links defensively, with 2 guys who should be shoe-ins for one of the two All-Defense teams (Allen and Noel) and a group of bench players who excel at forcing turnovers (Harkless, Robinson, and O'Quinn all have above-average block and steal rates which is why I targeted them).

Offensively you have clearly defined roles for everybody: DeMarcus and Rudy are options 1 and 2. Rondo is an elite facilitator, McLemore is the designated shooter, Allen and Noel are defensive specialists who can score opportunistically, and you get bench scoring from Collison, Robinson, and some combination of Harkless, Johnson, and Casspi at the wing positions). More importantly, we instantly get better in the two areas we were bad last season (assists 26th out of 30 and points allowed 28th out of 30) without losing anything offensively.

Perhaps there's less three point shooting here than some people are looking for, but if you picture Rondo coming off a pick and roll with space to work (defenders playing back) and he's got these options to pass to: "I can't be stopped even with a double team" DeMarcus Cousins, the hyper athletic Nerlens Noel with a path to the basket, McLemore spotted up for three or possibly coming off a screen, and then you've got Rudy Gay who can create his own shot off a broken play or catch and finish. George Karl can surely juice the offense with 2 20pt scorers, a proven playmaker, and good athletes across the board and this roster is set up in such a way that it can't fail defensively. Not with Cousins and Noel down low and a bench stuffed with good defenders.

So that's my dream scenario anyway, since there's less than 1% chance of the lottery working out this way. I could have done things differently -- kept the pick and created a Towns/Cousins lineup or tried to get Mudiay in the Noel deal for instance, but I like Noel more than Towns given that we already have Cousins and typically teams don't make the playoffs with rookie PGs. This off-season has already set itself up in such a way that Rondo literally has nowhere else to go, so I used the pick on my next favorite prospect instead -- a guy I can see developing into a great two-way SF down the line ala Kawhi Leonard or Paul George.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Thats some kind of a dream scenario

I would swap Rondo for Smart. Kills the playmaking even more, but the defensive mindset of a lineup of

Smart, Allen, Johnson, Noel, Dmc

would be something the NBA hasnt seen since the Bad Boys.

 

[Gilles]

With the way Noel finished the season I don't think, there's a lot of perceived difference in stock between him and Towns to warrant all those additional assets. And why Orlando is doing that trade? You can dream in the right direction though.

 

[KingsFanGER]

According to Vlade they plan to be one this upcoming season, so it would make sense to act like they mean it. Karl said he wants playmaking help at the 2 (well, he said a lot of things), so Kings should offer $4 million to Belinelli or $6 million to Stuckey to name two and look, if they take it. If Kings find a solution to PF, but it eats all the cap space, well, at least find some vet min wing to cover for Sauce, if he's not good to go come training camp.

P.S. People miss the fact, that Karl didn't give Nik minutes in half the games, Kings actually tried to compete in. He got his minutes vs Knicks, Sixers and Lakers though.

Not a big fan of Stuckey and I don't know, if Bellinelli would sign for a team, that's not a contender. If the Kings want to add veteran presence, I would prefer a player, that's more of a leader with playoff or even championship experience. Bellinelli has the experience, but he never stood out to me as a leader.

I think our disgareement on the bench SG position is because we are judging our starting 5 in particular JT very differentely.
To me it's also different, when you draft a player and he doesn't play a lot, because you have strong veterans playing a this position and you are in playoff mode as a team(f.e. the Bulls had Korver in 2011) or when you draft a player as a lottery team to be the first SG off the bench and you aquire a mid level FA to replace this player just one year after he was drafted. In fact Middleton is actually a prime example of what can happen, if you follow this route and I bet the Pistons would take him back in a heartbeat if possible.

 

[Gilles]

Middleton was in this situation, because he had a major injury as a junior in college, didn't recover fully, so he looked almost done as a prospect after 1 NBA season. When Bucks asked for him in Jennings/Knight swap, that SVG wanted really bad, it wasn't going to become an obstacle.
Stauskas played for an excellent talent developer in college, had no injury problems (so he wouldn't come back next year moving a lot better), and a lot of opportunities in his rookie season (relative to other rookies). Nik hasn't shown, he's ready. In fact the way Karl used Stauskas suggests, he doesn't believe in Nik's readiness as well.

The fact, that PDA thought he could rely on a rookie with just 2 years (only 1 in a prominent role) of college experience as a part of the rotation, suggests, he should stick to working spreadsheets, not team building.

 

[KingMilz]

Middleton was in this situation, because he had a major injury as a junior in college, didn't recover fully, so he looked almost done as a prospect after 1 NBA season. When Bucks asked for him in Jennings/Knight swap, that SVG wanted really bad, it wasn't going to become an obstacle.
Stauskas played for an excellent talent developer in college, had no injury problems (so he wouldn't come back next year moving a lot better), and a lot of opportunities in his rookie season (relative to other rookies). Nik hasn't shown, he's ready. In fact the way Karl used Stauskas suggests, he doesn't believe in Nik's readiness as well.

The fact, that PDA thought he could rely on a rookie with just 2 years (only 1 in a prominent role) of college experience as a part of the rotation, suggests, he should stick to working spreadsheets, not team building.

I thought they traded Middleton before SVG came, that was a Joe Dumars move

On May 14, 2014, Van Gundy was hired as the new head coach and president of basketball operations of the Detroit Pistons
On July 31, 2013, Middleton was traded, along with Brandon Knight and Viacheslav Kravtsov, to the Milwaukee Bucks in exchange for guard Brandon Jennings.

The crazy thing about Midds is he was completely out of the rotation/coming off the bench for limited mins until Sanders went mental and Parker got injured. I couldn't believe it at the time, it will be interesting to see if the Bucks keep him.

Bucks have basically nearly cost themselves 2 quality SF's (Tobias Harris being the first) for basically half a year rental on JJ Reddick and Middleton might not have even played much at all this year had it not been for injuries despite being a superior player to Greek Freak and Parker at this point in time.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Middleton was in this situation, because he had a major injury as a junior in college, didn't recover fully, so he looked almost done as a prospect after 1 NBA season. When Bucks asked for him in Jennings/Knight swap, that SVG wanted really bad, it wasn't going to become an obstacle.
Stauskas played for an excellent talent developer in college, had no injury problems (so he wouldn't come back next year moving a lot better), and a lot of opportunities in his rookie season (relative to other rookies). Nik hasn't shown, he's ready. In fact the way Karl used Stauskas suggests, he doesn't believe in Nik's readiness as well.

The fact, that PDA thought he could rely on a rookie with just 2 years (only 1 in a prominent role) of college experience as a part of the rotation, suggests, he should stick to working spreadsheets, not team building.

Yes Middleton was injured, but still the Pistons gave up on him too early.
Players improve - and when Stauskas learns how to cover his lack of footspeed and starts hitting his shots, he can contribute. It's not like he is miles away of being an NBA player. It's not like he is the biggest problem on this roster (Starting PF, Backup Center).
Austin Rivers, JJ.Reddick, Tyson Chandler - the list of players, who are able to contribute for their teams, but had disappoiting rookie seasons is not a short one I would guess.
I think we should wait and see, how Stauskas plays in the Summerleague and how he performs in his second season until the deadline. If he still doesn't improve, we should reevaluate the bench SG position.

 

[Gilles]

I thought they traded Middleton before SVG came, that was a Joe Dumars move

On May 14, 2014, Van Gundy was hired as the new head coach and president of basketball operations of the Detroit Pistons
On July 31, 2013, Middleton was traded, along with Brandon Knight and Viacheslav Kravtsov, to the Milwaukee Bucks in exchange for guard Brandon Jennings.

The crazy thing about Midds is he was completely out of the rotation/coming off the bench for limited mins until Sanders went mental and Parker got injured. I couldn't believe it at the time, it will be interesting to see if the Bucks keep him.

Bucks have basically nearly cost themselves 2 quality SF's (Tobias Harris being the first) for basically half a year rental on JJ Reddick and Middleton might not have even played much at all this year had it not been for injuries despite being a superior player to Greek Freak and Parker at this point in time.

Another example of "you can't keep a good player off the floor". Kings believe, Stauskas will be a very good player? Well, keep him as he still has 3 more years on a rookie contract. Scenario, where Kings find a decent SG, but Stauskas takes a year longer to develop is massively superior to Kings betting on Stauskas capable of holding backup SG job and then forced to cover incompetence with players playing out of position.

Getting back quickness after a leg injury takes between half a year/year and a half depending on severity (see Porter, Otto - Middleton, Khris). Learning to compensate for a lack of footspeed with footwork and anticipation takes multiple seasons (JJ Redick, 30y.o., and Kyle Korver, 34y.o., claim, they finally did it).

JT is the backup C, according to Karl.

P.S. Rivers is just on a roll: hitting ridiculous amount of 3s and long 2s, judging by his career, including games with Clippers. Too bad Doc is his father, as this kind of run gets a nice boon to a team for a mediocre player.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Scenario, where Kings find a decent SG, but Stauskas takes a year longer to develop is massively superior to Kings betting on Stauskas capable of holding backup SG job and then forced to cover incompetence with players playing out of position.

Depends on which player we sign to take Stauskas minutes.

 

[dude12]

There is no way that the Kings will go into the new year with Ben and Nik as the only SG's. They got burned once doing this....you can't let it happen again.

 

[twslam07]

There is no way that the Kings will go into the new year with Ben and Nik as the only SG's. They got burned once doing this....you can't let it happen again.

I'm on board with the "get a veteran SG" train. However, I don't deal in absolutes when it comes to things like this. It's not only the Kings choice. It's the player's choice (if we're signing him) or the team's choice (if we're trying to make a trade) as well. As they say, it takes two to tango. I'm not ruling out the possibility that we go into next season with a McLemore/Stauskas backcourt as much as I would like to have a more steady veteran.

 

[twslam07]

I personally would really welcome the idea of trading Stauskas & lowering the protection of the 2016 pick for Gibson and signing Belinelli. It immediately brings in two veterans who have had a lot of experience going deep into the playoffs and they also compliment our core roster very well. I also like the idea that Belinelli is a player who we could easily relegate to the bench considering he's come off the bench before and his contract would likely be bench friendly/acceptable. This would obviously depend on McLemore continuing to develop (or if we bring in another veteran SG).

 

[hrdboild]

With the way Noel finished the season I don't think, there's a lot of perceived difference in stock between him and Towns to warrant all those additional assets. And why Orlando is doing that trade? You can dream in the right direction though.

For some teams I would agree with you, but Philly doesn't appear to think like most teams do -- ie, get talent, keep talent, get more talent. I think they're constantly looking at opportunity cost. They traded MCW with two years left on his rookie contract to potentially get a top 10 pick. That's a trade 29 other teams don't make. If you look at the overall picture, Noel already lost a year of his rookie contract to injury so he has two years remaining. If nothing else, trading him for Towns resets the clock and gives them an additional 2 years of a cost-controlled asset.

Then you look at the lineup potential of Noel/Embiid/Mudiay and two lower picks vs. Towns/Embiid/Stauskas/Mudiay. The first group looks like they'll struggle to score points -- it's a collection of assets that are individually very good but questionable fit-wise. The second group looks like an actual team. And if they're looking for frontline talent, this gives them 3 of those guys -- the best two hi-ceiling prospects in this draft and the best one from last year's draft. Stauskas is about even value for what they could potentially acquire at #11 and he's a good compliment to what they already have. Which leads back to the opportunity cost -- is 4 years of Towns equal to 2 years of Noel and the #6 pick?

And lastly -- don't overlook the potential PR impact a big-splash trade like that can have. Philly has been selling it's fans on the draft for years now. Trading up to #1 would finally give them the big payoff they've promised and this scenario doesn't even require them to give up the #3 pick so they can still draft their MCW replacement. Can you imagine how much fanfare they'll use to promote next season with 2 of the top 3 picks in the draft coming in and Embiid coming back healthy? They could have all three of the top ROY candidates in their starting lineup, growing together as a team. I might be wrong about this, but from my perspective that looks like a situation that Sam Hinkie's ego would find it hard to say no to.

 

[twslam07]

For some teams I would agree with you, but Philly doesn't appear to think like most teams do -- ie, get talent, keep talent, get more talent. I think they're constantly looking at opportunity cost. They traded MCW with two years left on his rookie contract to potentially get a top 10 pick. That's a trade 29 other teams don't make. If you look at the overall picture, Noel already lost a year of his rookie contract to injury so he has two years remaining. If nothing else, trading him for Towns resets the clock and gives them an additional 2 years of a cost-controlled asset.

Then you look at the lineup potential of Noel/Embiid/Mudiay and two lower picks vs. Towns/Embiid/Stauskas/Mudiay. The first group looks like they'll struggle to score points -- it's a collection of assets that are individually very good but questionable fit-wise. The second group looks like an actual team. And if they're looking for frontline talent, this gives them 3 of those guys -- the best two hi-ceiling prospects in this draft and the best one from last year's draft. Stauskas is about even value for what they could potentially acquire at #11 and he's a good compliment to what they already have. Which leads back to the opportunity cost -- is 4 years of Towns equal to 2 years of Noel and the #6 pick?

And lastly -- don't overlook the potential PR impact a big-splash trade like that can have. Philly has been selling it's fans on the draft for years now. Trading up to #1 would finally give them the big payoff they've promised and this scenario doesn't even require them to give up the #3 pick so they can still draft their MCW replacement. Can you imagine how much fanfare they'll use to promote next season with 2 of the top 3 picks in the draft coming in and Embiid coming back healthy? They could have all three of the top ROY candidates in their starting lineup, growing together as a team. I might be wrong about this, but from my perspective that looks like a situation that Sam Hinkie's ego would find it hard to say no to.

As weird as it sounds, I honestly really liked the MCW trade for them. They are doing the rebuild right. MCW is not a franchise player. You don't want to draft second tier talent and start to rise up out of the lottery. You want to stay as high as you can in the lottery until you bring aboard your stars. You do everything you can to get those franchise players (trading MCW for a future pick while also making your team worse in the process to get a higher pick).

Not to mention with two players projected to be great bigs, you would prefer your perimeter players to space the floor. Obviously, MCW was very much lacking in this particular attribute.

 

[bajaden]

Speaking of dream scenarios, I was playing around with the ESPN draft simulator, and got this unlikely selection:

Which looks like the perfect setup to nab Nerlens Noel and led me to coming up with the following dream off-season...

Kings trade #1 and Nik Stauskas to Philly for #6, #11, and Nerlens Noel
[Sixers draft Karl Towns (#1) and Emmanual Mudiay (#3)]
Kings draft Stanley Johnson #6 overall
Kings trade #11 and Jason Thompson to Memphis for Tony Allen
Kings sign Rajon Rondo for 3 years, 21 million
Kings s&t Carl Landry and Ray McCallum for Kyle O'Quinn (2 years, 9 million) and Moe Harkless
Kings sign Omri Casspi (2 years, 6 million)
Kings sign Thomas Robinson using MLE (3 years, 13.5 million)

STARTERS:
PG Rajon Rondo
SG Ben McLemore
SF Rudy Gay
PF Nerlens Noel
C DeMarcus Cousins

BENCH:
PG Darren Collison
SG Tony Allen, Moe Harkless
SF Stanley Johnson, Omri Casspi
PF Thomas Robinson, Eric Moreland
C Kyle O'Quinn

PAYROLL:
D. Cousins 14.7
R. Gay 12.4
R. Rondo 7
D. Collison 5
T. Allen 5.1
K. O'Quinn 4.5
N. Noel 3.5
T. Robinson 3.5
B. McLemore 3.1
M. Harkless 2.9
S. Johnson 2.7
O. Casspi 2.5
W. Ellington 1
E. Moreland .8
D. Stockton .8

TOTAL 69.5 M

Maybe that's not the type of star power some people are hoping for, but I see a team there with a good mix of battle tested veterans (Rondo and Allen won a championship together in Boston, Rudy and DeMarcus won the FIBA world cup with Team USA last summer) and young talent to develop for the future (McLemore, Noel, Johnson, Harkless, Robinson, Moreland) to ensure our playoff run is sustained for years to come. I see no weak links defensively, with 2 guys who should be shoe-ins for one of the two All-Defense teams (Allen and Noel) and a group of bench players who excel at forcing turnovers (Harkless, Robinson, and O'Quinn all have above-average block and steal rates which is why I targeted them).

Offensively you have clearly defined roles for everybody: DeMarcus and Rudy are options 1 and 2. Rondo is an elite facilitator, McLemore is the designated shooter, Allen and Noel are defensive specialists who can score opportunistically, and you get bench scoring from Collison, Robinson, and some combination of Harkless, Johnson, and Casspi at the wing positions). More importantly, we instantly get better in the two areas we were bad last season (assists 26th out of 30 and points allowed 28th out of 30) without losing anything offensively.

Perhaps there's less three point shooting here than some people are looking for, but if you picture Rondo coming off a pick and roll with space to work (defenders playing back) and he's got these options to pass to: "I can't be stopped even with a double team" DeMarcus Cousins, the hyper athletic Nerlens Noel with a path to the basket, McLemore spotted up for three or possibly coming off a screen, and then you've got Rudy Gay who can create his own shot off a broken play or catch and finish. George Karl can surely juice the offense with 2 20pt scorers, a proven playmaker, and good athletes across the board and this roster is set up in such a way that it can't fail defensively. Not with Cousins and Noel down low and a bench stuffed with good defenders.

So that's my dream scenario anyway, since there's less than 1% chance of the lottery working out this way. I could have done things differently -- kept the pick and created a Towns/Cousins lineup or tried to get Mudiay in the Noel deal for instance, but I like Noel more than Towns given that we already have Cousins and typically teams don't make the playoffs with rookie PGs. This off-season has already set itself up in such a way that Rondo literally has nowhere else to go, so I used the pick on my next favorite prospect instead -- a guy I can see developing into a great two-way SF down the line ala Kawhi Leonard or Paul George.

I absolutely hate your trade. First, in my humble opinion, Karl Towns is going to be a far better player than Noel will ever dream of being. Just my opinion mind you. But Towns can do everything Noel can do, and he can also play center. He's a better passer and ball handler. He's taller, and bigger. So why would I want Noel instead. Then your going to trade your newly acquired draft pick, the 11th pick in the draft, along with JT for a 33 yr old Allen. Why? Third, Sorry, but I'm not now, nor never have been, a Rondo fan. Don't like him, and don't want him. We're a team that needs perimeter shooting, and we're going to start a PG that can't shoot, and has to have the ball in his hands to be effective, which goes against everything Karl preaches. And last I checked, Karl is still the coach.

If were lucky enough to get the first pick in the draft, we damm well better take Towns and keep him.

 

[twslam07]

I absolutely hate your trade. First, in my humble opinion, Karl Towns is going to be a far better player than Noel will ever dream of being. Just my opinion mind you. But Towns can do everything Noel can do, and he can also play center. He's a better passer and ball handler. He's taller, and bigger. So why would I want Noel instead. Then your going to trade your newly acquired draft pick, the 11th pick in the draft, along with JT for a 33 yr old Allen. Why? Third, Sorry, but I'm not now, nor never have been, a Rondo fan. Don't like him, and don't want him. We're a team that needs perimeter shooting, and we're going to start a PG that can't shoot, and has to have the ball in his hands to be effective, which goes against everything Karl preaches. And last I checked, Karl is still the coach.

If were lucky enough to get the first pick in the draft, we damm well better take Towns and keep him.

I agree with most of this. We'll be hard pressed to find a better compliment to Cousins in this draft, FA, or through a trade. Cousins and Towns has the ability to be the best frontcourt in the league. I think people try to get cute sometimes and trade the #1 for multiple pieces to fill all of the holes we have (myself included), but I don't think I would ever have the cahones to actually trade a guy like Towns away. A Cousins/Towns/Gay frontcourt would be very, very scary.

 

[bajaden]

Middleton was in this situation, because he had a major injury as a junior in college, didn't recover fully, so he looked almost done as a prospect after 1 NBA season. When Bucks asked for him in Jennings/Knight swap, that SVG wanted really bad, it wasn't going to become an obstacle.
Stauskas played for an excellent talent developer in college, had no injury problems (so he wouldn't come back next year moving a lot better), and a lot of opportunities in his rookie season (relative to other rookies). Nik hasn't shown, he's ready. In fact the way Karl used Stauskas suggests, he doesn't believe in Nik's readiness as well.

The fact, that PDA thought he could rely on a rookie with just 2 years (only 1 in a prominent role) of college experience as a part of the rotation, suggests, he should stick to working spreadsheets, not team building.

We can argue about whether Nik is ready or not. But I thought the way Karl used Nik was the way he should be used, and I didn't interpret his usage the same way you did. It took a few games before he got him into the rotation, but once there, he kept him there till the end of the season. Remember, Nik was struggling with a back sprain at the end, which caused him some minutes. I don't know how many people watched Nik play at Michigan, but he wasn't used in a similar way here until Karl became the coach. Lest everyone forget, or didn't know, Nik led Michigan in assists. He was a defacto playmaker. He had the ball in his hands a lot, and passed the ball more often than he shot the ball. All he was asked to do for most of this season was go stand in the corner and wait till someone passed him the ball. I watched games where he went 4 or 5 minutes on the floor without even touching the ball. And were supposed to decide his fate based on that? Thats like taking a swimmer that's a great backstroke swimmer, throwing him into the breaststroke competition, and then saying he's a bad swimmer when he fails.

Karl said he wants more playmakers and ballhandlers on the perimeter. Nik can be exactly that. That's what he was at Michigan. Whether he's ready to step into that role this coming season or not, remains to be seen. But that's where his future is in the league lies, and I wouldn't count him out just yet. He's not just a spot up shooter.

I agree on your last sentence. Although I'm sure McLemore loved getting the minutes, it wasn't fair to expect him to carry that big a load as a rookie, nor as a second year player. Hopefully that two years of experience will pay dividends this coming season.

 

[bajaden]

I agree with most of this. We'll be hard pressed to find a better compliment to Cousins in this draft, FA, or through a trade. Cousins and Towns has the ability to be the best frontcourt in the league. I think people try to get cute sometimes and trade the #1 for multiple pieces to fill all of the holes we have (myself included), but I don't think I would ever have the cahones to actually trade a guy like Towns away. A Cousins/Towns/Gay frontcourt would be very, very scary.

I completely agree.

 

[hrdboild]

I absolutely hate your trade. First, in my humble opinion, Karl Towns is going to be a far better player than Noel will ever dream of being. Just my opinion mind you. But Towns can do everything Noel can do, and he can also play center. He's a better passer and ball handler. He's taller, and bigger. So why would I want Noel instead. Then your going to trade your newly acquired draft pick, the 11th pick in the draft, along with JT for a 33 yr old Allen. Why? Third, Sorry, but I'm not now, nor never have been, a Rondo fan. Don't like him, and don't want him. We're a team that needs perimeter shooting, and we're going to start a PG that can't shoot, and has to have the ball in his hands to be effective, which goes against everything Karl preaches. And last I checked, Karl is still the coach.

If were lucky enough to get the first pick in the draft, we damm well better take Towns and keep him.

I know you're a big fan of Towns and I completely understand that point of view. If he's a future hall-of-fame big man, you have to keep him even if it takes a few years to get him there. If he's a future All-Star, the question becomes whether he's going to be better than Noel eventually. As an all-around player, Towns may be the better player. That's why I think Philly does the trade. And I do think he's quite a capable defender himself, and I can see him fitting in with Cousins and coach Karl so that's not a problem either. But Nerlens Noel to me is a perfect compliment to Cousins in the way that Karl Towns is not for two reasons (1) he's an ideal weak-side shotblocker and pick and roll disruptor the likes of which does not exist anywhere else in the league aside from Anthony Davis and potentially Willie Cauley-Stein, and (2) Cousins' ability to draw a double team on every play makes Noel so much more dangerous offensively than he would ever be on the Sixers.

I'm not trying to convince you, but there are a few other mitigating factors I considered which don't really show up if you just look at the deals themselves.

1] I think we'd be better off with a low usage player at starting PF for as long as we have both DeMarcus Cousins and Rudy Gay in the starting lineup. Two tower lineups in the past have mostly worked with one scorer and one defensive specialist. If you have two hall of famers (ie Robinson and Duncan), you make it work. I don't see that with Karl Towns, but I understand if you do. That's a judgement call, there's no way to know right now.

2] Nerlens Noel isn't just good defensively, he's a lock to win at least one DPOY award and possibly more than that. Anything you want to look at, he's elite. This is the list of players with similar block and steal % their first or second year in the league. As a rim protector, only Gobert, Bogut, Hibbert, Ibaka, and Whiteside were better this year. None of those guys have the mobility to step out and defend the pick and roll as well as Noel can. Anything you can say about Cauley-Stein defensively in this year's draft was true and then some of Noel in his one year at Kentucky. With Cousins' big frame freeing Noel from the burden of guarding the other team's best post player, a job he's ill equipped to handle right now, Noel will be even better than he was this year in Philadelphia. A weak-side threat to every shot in the paint, a constant menace in the passing lanes, a big who can not only step out on pick and rolls and guard the ball-handler, but has the hands to rip the ball loose and start a fast break as well.

3] DeMarcus Cousins wants to play with Rondo. Why else would he tell Bill Simmons he's the best PG in the NBA? And Rondo is already friends with Rudy Gay and wants to play with him. Unless you really hate Rondo, bringing in an All-Star level player that our two best current players want to play with seems like a winning decision to me. Not to mention, we have a group of players who would all benefit from playing next to a talented facilitator -- not the least of which is Ben McLemore who becomes a legitimate third weapon with a PG who can deliver him the ball in rhythm exactly where he wants it. George Karl has thrived in the past with playmaking PGs who can run the offense themselves and make decisions on the fly. I'm not just talking about bringing in a mercenary to help the team like Dallas did when they traded for him, there's synergy here that actually makes sense.

4] Whoever we draft at #11 is going to be in the same boat as Stauskas and McLemore -- it's going to take them 2-3 years before they're ready for a regular rotation spot. If we're accelerating the plan to playoff ready on opening day, which is what everybody here seems to want, you don't need another young player to develop as much as you need a battle tested veteran who's elite at one thing, knows their role, and fills a need. That's Tony Allen. Memphis picking up Jeff Green for the SF spot and treading water in the playoffs year after year (maybe this is their year?) could mean they'd be willing to trade the last two years of a still productive Tony Allen's contract to get a young player to develop instead and a backup big which they desperately need. Also, if we are going to target Rondo, bringing in someone else he's comfortable with to ease the lockerroom transition doesn't hurt. Allen fills a need for a wing defender right now and even if he only has 3 or 4 years left in the tank, I want him in the lockerroom swapping tips with our up and coming players -- McLemore Noel, Johnson, Robinson, Harkless, and Moreland. Teach them the right approach to defense early -- study tape, learn player's tendencies, never quit on the play. I also think he'd help motivate Rondo to expel max effort on defense like he used to back when they played together in Boston.

5] And lastly, with Stanley Johnson, Nerlens Noel, Ben McLemore, Thomas Robinson and Moe Harkless already on the roster here (in my scenario anyway) there's plenty of first round talent to develop as it is. We can sacrifice one lotto pick here for a right-fit veteran with the defense-first attitude I want our youngsters to learn.

I guess that's all I got. Like I said, I'm not trying to convince you. Just trying to give more detailed background on why I made some of those decisions.

 

[randymoss1881]

I know you're a big fan of Towns and I completely understand that point of view. If he's a future hall-of-fame big man, you have to keep him even if it takes a few years to get him there. If he's a future All-Star, the question becomes whether he's going to be better than Noel eventually. As an all-around player, Towns may be the better player. That's why I think Philly does the trade. And I do think he's quite a capable defender himself, and I can see him fitting in with Cousins and coach Karl so that's not a problem either. But Nerlens Noel to me is a perfect compliment to Cousins in the way that Karl Towns is not for two reasons (1) he's an ideal weak-side shotblocker and pick and roll disruptor the likes of which does not exist anywhere else in the league aside from Anthony Davis and potentially Willie Cauley-Stein, and (2) Cousins' ability to draw a double team on every play makes Noel so much more dangerous offensively than he would ever be on the Sixers.

I'm not trying to convince you, but there are a few other mitigating factors I considered which don't really show up if you just look at the deals themselves.

1] I think we'd be better off with a low usage player at starting PF for as long as we have both DeMarcus Cousins and Rudy Gay in the starting lineup. Two tower lineups in the past have mostly worked with one scorer and one defensive specialist. If you have two hall of famers (ie Robinson and Duncan), you make it work. I don't see that with Karl Towns, but I understand if you do. That's a judgement call, there's no way to know right now.

2] Nerlens Noel isn't just good defensively, he's a lock to win at least one DPOY award and possibly more than that. Anything you want to look at, he's elite. This is the list of players with similar block and steal % their first or second year in the league. As a rim protector, only Gobert, Bogut, Hibbert, Ibaka, and Whiteside were better this year. None of those guys have the mobility to step out and defend the pick and roll as well as Noel can. Anything you can say about Cauley-Stein defensively in this year's draft was true and then some of Noel in his one year at Kentucky. With Cousins' big frame freeing Noel from the burden of guarding the other team's best post player, a job he's ill equipped to handle right now, Noel will be even better than he was this year in Philadelphia. A weak-side threat to every shot in the paint, a constant menace in the passing lanes, a big who can not only step out on pick and rolls and guard the ball-handler, but has the hands to rip the ball loose and start a fast break as well.

3] DeMarcus Cousins wants to play with Rondo. Why else would he tell Bill Simmons he's the best PG in the NBA? And Rondo is already friends with Rudy Gay and wants to play with him. Unless you really hate Rondo, bringing in an All-Star level player that our two best current players want to play with seems like a winning decision to me. Not to mention, we have a group of players who would all benefit from playing next to a talented facilitator -- not the least of which is Ben McLemore who becomes a legitimate third weapon with a PG who can deliver him the ball in rhythm exactly where he wants it. George Karl has thrived in the past with playmaking PGs who can run the offense themselves and make decisions on the fly. I'm not just talking about bringing in a mercenary to help the team like Dallas did when they traded for him, there's synergy here that actually makes sense.

4] Whoever we draft at #11 is going to be in the same boat as Stauskas and McLemore -- it's going to take them 2-3 years before they're ready for a regular rotation spot. If we're accelerating the plan to playoff ready on opening day, which is what everybody here seems to want, you don't need another young player to develop as much as you need a battle tested veteran who's elite at one thing, knows their role, and fills a need. That's Tony Allen. Memphis picking up Jeff Green for the SF spot and treading water in the playoffs year after year (maybe this is their year?) could mean they'd be willing to trade the last two years of a still productive Tony Allen's contract to get a young player to develop instead and a backup big which they desperately need. Also, if we are going to target Rondo, bringing in someone else he's comfortable with to ease the lockerroom transition doesn't hurt. Allen fills a need for a wing defender right now and even if he only has 3 or 4 years left in the tank, I want him in the lockerroom swapping tips with our up and coming players -- McLemore Noel, Johnson, Robinson, Harkless, and Moreland. Teach them the right approach to defense early -- study tape, learn player's tendencies, never quit on the play. I also think he'd help motivate Rondo to expel max effort on defense like he used to back when they played together in Boston.

5] And lastly, with Stanley Johnson, Nerlens Noel, Ben McLemore, Thomas Robinson and Moe Harkless already on the roster here (in my scenario anyway) there's plenty of first round talent to develop as it is. We can sacrifice one lotto pick here for a right-fit veteran with the defense-first attitude I want our youngsters to learn.

I guess that's all I got. Like I said, I'm not trying to convince you. Just trying to give more detailed background on why I made some of those decisions.

Rondo isn't a all star level player let it go he won't willingly sign here anyway.

 

[KingsCitizen]

Some rumors in my head tells me we're gonna get #1 pick in this draft and pick Towns because we need to get 2 damn good big men to allow the likes of Sim Bhullar to roam around our bench and quickly expand the market to billions of Indians.
Well that's my dream scenario.

And of course there is also that little bird that tells me that due to recent playoffs collapse, Josh Smith and Rajon Rondo, 2 players our FO and KF members used to drool about will finally end up with very high discount price and play next to Rudy here.

 

[hrdboild]

Rondo isn't a all star level player let it go he won't willingly sign here anyway.

I know it pains you to read these words, but Rajon Rondo is not only an All Star, he's a 4 time All Star and an NBA champion. And he might sign here.

 

[pdizo916]

My dream scenario is drafting Justise Winslow. He doesn't fit an immediate need, but he's one heckuva player. Actually, my dream is getting the first pick, and trade down to gain assets, then draft Winslow.

 

[KingMilz]

I know it pains you to read these words, but Rajon Rondo is not only an All Star, he's a 4 time All Star and an NBA champion. And he might sign here.

How much $$ would you pay for him? Or what do you think he will be worth?

 

[dude12]

Hearing that Rondo ripped apart the Dallas locker room would have to give a team pause in acquiring the guy, No?

 

[hrdboild]

How much $$ would you pay for him? Or what do you think he will be worth?

I predicated 3 years, 21 million which is 7 million a year. Maybe with a player option on year 3. That helps to mitigate the injury risk on both ends and gives Rondo a couple years to reassert his value under the new CBA and make up then what he lost this summer. If we're a legit contender at that point and/or Rondo returns to All Star form we consider paying him more.

I don't think anything over 10 million a year or 25 million guaranteed is a smart investment. I also don't see a lot of potential suitors. Indiana, Miami, and Houston don't have cap room. San Antonio already has Parker. LA and New York are his other options but those teams don't get him back to the playoffs anytime soon which is what he wants. If he wants another situation like he had in Boston -- hall of fame teammates, a proven coach, and a chance to compete every year, we're his only option this year.

 

[funkykingston]

I like Towns enough that my first dream scenario is the Kings getting lucky in the lottery and being in a position to take Towns. Most likely that's the #1 slot but it's possible Okafor goes #1 (say to the Knicks) and Towns is there at #2.

Outside of that my dream scenario would be the Kings getting the 2nd or 3rd pick with Philly getting pushed down to 5 or so and being willing to trade #5 and #11 for #2 or #3, maybe even taking on Landry's salary in the process.

Because to me, after Towns I'm more comfortable taking Cauley-Stein than Russell or Mudiay and the #11 pick allows the team to add a big, scoring PG like Grant or Payne to groom behind Collison until he's ready. Add a bit of shooting to the bench and I think you can roll with that team even though it's not drastically different than the roster that finished the season.