Doug McBuckets crowned King

#31
When was the last time e eryone was universally happy about a signing?
I'll be Debbie downer here. I don't think there's any way he plays 20-25mpg unless we have injuries. He's a good shooter but has basically overall been a net negative player his entire career, outside of the 3 seasons he played in IND with Sabonis.

Even with all that, I'm good with the signing. This team needs shooting. They've looked horrible from beyond the arc in preseason.
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#33
I'll be Debbie downer here. I don't think there's any way he plays 20-25mpg unless we have injuries. He's a good shooter but has basically overall been a net negative player his entire career, outside of the 3 seasons he played in IND with Sabonis.

Even with all that, I'm good with the signing. This team needs shooting. They've looked horrible from beyond the arc in preseason.
We have injuries now. I suspect that's why we made this move, to prevent a bad run of form in the first month of the season costing us a playoff berth. I wouldn't be shocked if he has a bigger role to start the season than he does at the end, unless his presence renders someone else part of a future move.
 
#34
I'll be Debbie downer here. I don't think there's any way he plays 20-25mpg unless we have injuries. He's a good shooter but has basically overall been a net negative player his entire career, outside of the 3 seasons he played in IND with Sabonis.

Even with all that, I'm good with the signing. This team needs shooting. They've looked horrible from beyond the arc in preseason.
yeh I think he might be closer to what Sasha got last year (12 min a game). With the built in chemistry with Sabonis it’s a super easy fit and he will probably be more content in that role than Sasha was.
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#35
Well, McDizzle was not on my radar.

As we all know, plays 10-15 MPG, shoots the crap out of the ball, may actually be frighteningly bad at defense. Gives us a bit of size.

We'll see. We'll probably be kinda happy with him because we'll remember all the shots he hits but his defensive breakdowns won't be as obvious. I hope it works.
 
#40
I'll be Debbie downer here. I don't think there's any way he plays 20-25mpg unless we have injuries. He's a good shooter but has basically overall been a net negative player his entire career, outside of the 3 seasons he played in IND with Sabonis.

Even with all that, I'm good with the signing. This team needs shooting. They've looked horrible from beyond the arc in preseason.
Yeah, he's a one foot out of the league signing. Could definitely work, and much better gamble wise than that last move for a Domas pal than Duarte since there's nothing to be on the hook for.
 
#44
Can't hurt. They obviously thought they needed more shooting.

It's a curious mix with this team. They may have the best two-point heavy trio in the league in Fox, Sabonis and DDR. But they are surrounded by lesser players who are more 3-point heavy and must shoot 3s at a high percentage to let the 2-point marksmen get their opportunities. (Maybe Murray is the exception). The backdrop to all of it is that it's a 3-point league, not the 2-point league of yesteryear. So how is this madcap experiment going to turn out? If they could play better defense I might have more confidence in getting to a top five tier for the league, but until then I remain on the fence. Also, I'm not yet convinced that Brown has the exceptional offensive mindset to optimize their performance. It's going to be interesting.
 
#46
I think he's a better passer than Huerter, shoots a higher percentage overall, is a good option for the hand off 3...along with spot ups anywhere behind the line including the corner, and is a natural fit at the small forward.

McNair will still be trying to move Huerter by the deadline. Not a surprise, but good to have an established shooter/passer to fill his production this season...and maybe beyond, if things go as well with Sabonis as it did for the pair in Indiana
 
#48
I think he's a better passer than Huerter, shoots a higher percentage overall, is a good option for the hand off 3...along with spot ups anywhere behind the line including the corner, and is a natural fit at the small forward.

McNair will still be trying to move Huerter by the deadline. Not a surprise, but good to have an established shooter/passer to fill his production this season...and maybe beyond, if things go as well with Sabonis as it did for the pair in Indiana
The thing is though, Huerter as anything less than a starter who gets at least the type of role he's had isn't gaining value, he's probably losing it. Look how far his stock fell in 1 poor season where his role kind of changed as the DHO lost it's effectiveness. The good news is there's really no reason to dump him at this point so even if you have to wait out his deal, it is what it is. Huerters deal at least falls of the books the same year Monte has some serious money to dish out just to keep his team together. If Carter pans out like he should, that rookie deal is going to be a life saver on Monte's cap, especially if Fox ends up making that All NBA team this season, just between Murray and Fox that could be between 90-100 million, lol.
 
#50
Can never really have too many shooters. JMac, Huerter, Monk, Mcbuckets and Lyles all capable of shooting 38 percent or better on good volume off the bench.
I’ve got no problem insisting on a 3-point emphasis if we have the players to do it, and it seems like we are definitely getting there! I don’t want Sabonis out on the perimeter on the rationale that chucking up bricks will “space the floor,” but McBuckets and Huerter and Lyles? I’ll take that risk all day long.
 
#51
Can't hurt. They obviously thought they needed more shooting.

It's a curious mix with this team. They may have the best two-point heavy trio in the league in Fox, Sabonis and DDR. But they are surrounded by lesser players who are more 3-point heavy and must shoot 3s at a high percentage to let the 2-point marksmen get their opportunities. (Maybe Murray is the exception). The backdrop to all of it is that it's a 3-point league, not the 2-point league of yesteryear. So how is this madcap experiment going to turn out? If they could play better defense I might have more confidence in getting to a top five tier for the league, but until then I remain on the fence. Also, I'm not yet convinced that Brown has the exceptional offensive mindset to optimize their performance. It's going to be interesting.
The roster construction is unique. Pretending to be Monte, I think he clearly saw that our big 2 of Fox-Sabonis was not good enough to contend in the playoffs. Aside from those 2, the only player on our team who can consistently create their own shot is Malik, but he's microwave scorer that can be very hot and cold. As a result, this is why we saw Monte push very hard for a true #2 scorer in Markkanen and BI. However, neither trade came to fruition. Monte was also interested in LaVine at one point, but LaVine's health and contract posed a big risk.

Moving down the line at available stars... the only viable option left was a 35-year-old DeRozan.

I don't think Monte had much of a choice here. I don't think this is the ideal roster he wants, but it's the best he can give Mike Brown to work with. Between Fox, DeRozan, and Sabonis..... they are the worst 3pt shooting "big 3" in the league. Watching the preseason, it became evident that we needed to surround them with shooters, hence this McDermott signing. We're going to need Huerter, Monk, Keegan, and Lyles to all shoot at least 38% from 3pt. Last year's shooting from that group was: 36.1, 35, 35.8, and 38.4. That's dreadful. If these guys can't hit their shots, McDermott is going to be gunning for their minutes because none of them outside of Keegan plays defense anyways.

With Sabonis "anchoring" the defense, I think we all have to accept that our defense will probably always be bottom half. He provides very little in terms of rim protection, interior defense, and perimeter switching. Fox could be the wildcard that moves our defensive needle, but he needs to give consistent effort throughout the game.

Mike Brown has it cut out for him... but just putting it out there, most of our problems would magically go away if Keegan takes that next step we're all hoping for....
 
#53
The roster construction is unique. Pretending to be Monte, I think he clearly saw that our big 2 of Fox-Sabonis was not good enough to contend in the playoffs. Aside from those 2, the only player on our team who can consistently create their own shot is Malik, but he's microwave scorer that can be very hot and cold. As a result, this is why we saw Monte push very hard for a true #2 scorer in Markkanen and BI. However, neither trade came to fruition. Monte was also interested in LaVine at one point, but LaVine's health and contract posed a big risk.

Moving down the line at available stars... the only viable option left was a 35-year-old DeRozan.

I don't think Monte had much of a choice here. I don't think this is the ideal roster he wants, but it's the best he can give Mike Brown to work with. Between Fox, DeRozan, and Sabonis..... they are the worst 3pt shooting "big 3" in the league. Watching the preseason, it became evident that we needed to surround them with shooters, hence this McDermott signing. We're going to need Huerter, Monk, Keegan, and Lyles to all shoot at least 38% from 3pt. Last year's shooting from that group was: 36.1, 35, 35.8, and 38.4. That's dreadful. If these guys can't hit their shots, McDermott is going to be gunning for their minutes because none of them outside of Keegan plays defense anyways.

With Sabonis "anchoring" the defense, I think we all have to accept that our defense will probably always be bottom half. He provides very little in terms of rim protection, interior defense, and perimeter switching. Fox could be the wildcard that moves our defensive needle, but he needs to give consistent effort throughout the game.

Mike Brown has it cut out for him... but just putting it out there, most of our problems would magically go away if Keegan takes that next step we're all hoping for....
I mean, we just saw a 21 game sample where the Kings had the third best defensive in the NBA when Keon joined the rotation. So this just isn't true. Is it sticky? Maybe not, but we at least have nearly 2 months of games showing that a good defense is possible with Domas on the floor.

I do agree that the blueprint always needed to be us being a top 5 offense. But I think with Keon, hopefully Carter in a few months and another defensive leap from Keegan, they can lead our D to being...15th? There's your recipe for making a WCF type push.
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#54
This is ludicrous. Our big salaries are either not eligible to be traded (Monk, DeRozan) or are the literal keystones of the franchise (Fox, Domas). We're not trading those guys for a one-year malcontent or a two-year triage case. You could squint and get Ingram under salary cap rules, if you sent Huerter and Lyles and Keegan and Carter. Are we going to send Keegan and Carter for one year of Ingram? No. We'd have to send even more salary to get LaVine.

We're not where we were back in the summer when we thought we might be able to package the Huerter and Barnes salaries to bring back a big name like Ingram/LaVine. We got our big name - DeRozan - and we used up one of those salary pieces to do it.

At this point, the idea of trading for Ingram/LaVine lies somewhere between malpractice and malfeasance. His track record clearly shows that Monte is obviously neither dumb nor evil - so the bottom line is that this was probably a honeypot for a leaker and Issa's anonymous source will probably be fired in the morning.
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#55
Hmm... according to pre-draft data, Doug McBuckets (2014-15) and K'Von (2018-19) are the exact same height. Doug does have an extra 1.75" of wingspan and 1.5" of standing reach but given their current ages, I think it's safe to assume that Kevin is a better match to defend any current NBA player regardless of position.

Not that I don't like this as a low-risk addition for wing depth and added insurance for Kevin's recovering shoulder, but it mostly warrants a shrug from me. Unless the plan is to trade Kevin for a defensive big in which case I like the idea to re-balance the roster and recover some value from a starter level player who likely has lost his starter's role on the Kings.
 
#56
The roster construction is unique. Pretending to be Monte, I think he clearly saw that our big 2 of Fox-Sabonis was not good enough to contend in the playoffs. Aside from those 2, the only player on our team who can consistently create their own shot is Malik, but he's microwave scorer that can be very hot and cold. As a result, this is why we saw Monte push very hard for a true #2 scorer in Markkanen and BI. However, neither trade came to fruition. Monte was also interested in LaVine at one point, but LaVine's health and contract posed a big risk.

Moving down the line at available stars... the only viable option left was a 35-year-old DeRozan.

I don't think Monte had much of a choice here. I don't think this is the ideal roster he wants, but it's the best he can give Mike Brown to work with. Between Fox, DeRozan, and Sabonis..... they are the worst 3pt shooting "big 3" in the league. Watching the preseason, it became evident that we needed to surround them with shooters, hence this McDermott signing. We're going to need Huerter, Monk, Keegan, and Lyles to all shoot at least 38% from 3pt. Last year's shooting from that group was: 36.1, 35, 35.8, and 38.4. That's dreadful. If these guys can't hit their shots, McDermott is going to be gunning for their minutes because none of them outside of Keegan plays defense anyways.

With Sabonis "anchoring" the defense, I think we all have to accept that our defense will probably always be bottom half. He provides very little in terms of rim protection, interior defense, and perimeter switching. Fox could be the wildcard that moves our defensive needle, but he needs to give consistent effort throughout the game.

Mike Brown has it cut out for him... but just putting it out there, most of our problems would magically go away if Keegan takes that next step we're all hoping for....
I agree with 95% of your post. Really the only thing I'd quibble about is the idea that Sabonis necessarily confines the Kings to the bottom half defensively. Yes, with the current lineup I'd probably agree with you. But if the Kings could get that long athletic 4 who can hit a 3 pointer, while helping out Sabonis defensively and in rebounding, I could see a top 10 defense for the Kings. But we've been talking about that need for years now. And that's where McNair comes into the picture.

McNair has to a fault stuck to his value approach in developing the Kings. As you mention, he got DDR over Markkanen and BI because DDR was the value pick relative to the other two. And my belief is that he's been more inclined to get guards in the drafts because by and large he thinks he's getting better value with the guards than the longer wings because long wings are in higher demand in this league and will always be more "expensive" in this league relative to the guards. I actually admire his disciplined value approach, but I do believe that in order to take the next step to an elite NBA championship contender he's probably going to need to break from his discipline and pay up bigtime in order to get a quality long stretch four. (If he can somehow "luck out" and get that quality 4 on the cheap it would be very nice, but not what I would bank on).

As for Murray, after the addition of DDR he became even more important to the Kings' chances of winning, imo. Why? Because he's the ONLY proven two-way player the Kings have that can hit a 3-point shot and open the floor for the 2-point heavy trio of Fox, Sabonis and DDR. Some may say Keon could be a 2nd player on this team with those attributes, but I think we need more than 21 games of last year to bank on it going forward. If Keon isn't a reliable 3 point shooter then Brown will have to constantly make an either/or choice when it comes to 3-point shooting and defense - either have less defense in favor of 3 point shooting so your big 3 can get the space they need, or have more defense but less 3 point shooting that your big three need.