Well ... I have to disagree with you on this one, though I do share your sentiments that his conditioning as it is now, post injury or whatever, needs improving. There's a limit on how much you can expect Cousins to be able to run up and down the court given his build. He's no Blake, he's no Anthony Davis and he's no Barkley. You wouldn't ask Shaq to run up and down the court either.
DMC tells Bee he "feels lost"
- Thread starter VF21
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Well ... I have to disagree with you on this one, though I do share your sentiments that his conditioning as it is now, post injury or whatever, needs improving. There's a limit on how much you can expect Cousins to be able to run up and down the court given his build. He's no Blake, he's no Anthony Davis and he's no Barkley. You wouldn't ask Shaq to run up and down the court either.
gman23
Starter
My thing is it's NOT the people around DMC that's the problem it's him. DMC is a grown man making millions of dollars. You want to be the best than train like the best. Being lazy and complaining will not make you the best. See MJ, Kobe, Magic, Larry etc... These guys put in a hell of alot of practice and effort to make it to the top. These kids today want to start out at the top without the work. I have no sympathy for millionaires who cry about nothing.
I
Im Still Ballin
Guest
Given his weight? Why do you limit him? His build is the wrong word. Build implies structure more or less as much as body composition... Something that is 100% controllable. Body composition is the better word. All I'm seeing is people saying he can't. I'm seeing a guy who's body composition is not near optimal condition. He had much more to bring to this season. I'm not debating whether Karl's system is the right one for Cousins. Just the fact that he came unprepared for it, despite knowing full well what was in store. They talked about how Cousins was in his best condition yet, but low and behold I saw the same high bodyfat percentage Cousins.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
this steaming pile of donkey dung is vivek's fault. hiring a coach that should have remained retired since he doesn't have the energy to be a head coach was not a wise decision. now if he had brought him in as a pete carril position that would have made sense.
ideally id like to see a coach like thibs with adelman (pete carril position) brought back to help w/ offensive sets. so you get the best of both worlds.
fansinceday1
Starter
you think this organization is a mess now? Wait till cousins is gone. And being utilized by a competent org and coach. This fan base will be in full on revolt when cousins is crushing it elsewhere, and we are winning 15 games a year.
You anti cousins people won't realize how wrong you are in every way until he's gone. This isn't a cousins problem. This is a kings organization problem.
You anti cousins people won't realize how wrong you are in every way until he's gone. This isn't a cousins problem. This is a kings organization problem.
I
Im Still Ballin
Guest
No it's definitely both. It's not a pick a sides issue
fansinceday1
Starter
WHEN his agent drops the trade request on vlades desk, we will all know how bad it has gotten in kings land. If we don't fire Karl, he will eventually win and get his wish of trading cousins.
This franchise is doing a bang up job of staying down in the cellar with the 76ers and lakers.
fansinceday1
Starter
The worst thing that has happened to cousins has been coming here. He has been surrounded by ineptitude since day 1. I for one can't wait to see him somewhere else cause it's just not gonna happen here. His talent is wasting away here.
I can't even imagine how many wins a cousins-less Kings team will eek out in a season..........
John Galt
Starter
I can't imagine anybody as thick skinned and ego-free as I am, taking offense at a remark like that lol.
I just think Grant has worked a 2 year agenda to prep the fan base for this, and I stand by my POV - that a move for Boston's draft pick grab bag will not incite a fan riot or season ticket deterioration.
We just see the landscape differently. I think the fevered Boogie support is by a smart articulate passionate minority.
And I sincerely hope to God we don't find out. I think DMC is an incredible player and that we automatically lose any trade that includes him
kupman
Starter
There are very few circumstances where I would support moving DMC. However, I would support trading DMC for Griffin. I think that a line-up of Rondo, BMac, Gay, Griffin and WCS would earn us more wins. This would also give the Clippers a beastly interior with DMC and Jordon to go along with a really good back court.
Thing is, I highly doubt the Clippers would bite on it even though they would be getting the best big man in the league to go along with one of the best PGs in the league.
I think there's consensus among fans on most of these points. I wonder what Karl and his team of professionals could say to counter argument the obvious.
K
KingMilz
Guest
You don't even know what we are getting back for him, let alone what's going to occur to the rest of the team if a trade does go down. We might have to take a step back initially to go forward or this current team might magically turn things around.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
that is exactly why he should book it, and I wouldn't be mad at him one bit for it. I'd like to see how he does in a stable organization/coach/front office and see if he really as good as posters on here say he is and the numbers indicate sans the terrible FG%. I'd still root for this dysfunction however because it's in my blood. Call me crazy.
fansinceday1
Starter
Im right there with you. It boggles my mind that so many people would willingly subject themselves to this crap year after year after year.
The Hammer
All-Star
Brilliant, and I don't know why I hadn't thought of this earlier.
**** Karl. He needs to go away. Let Vlade coach out the year, and if it's somehow wildly successful, maybe he even continues. I have a hard time seeing him do worse than Karl. After all, look at the players he signed in the offseason. He clearly has a vision for the style of this team, based on our core players. Let him orchestrate it from the sidelines. I'd say keep the assistants on staff and run with it. Well, maybe half court with it.
The Hammer
All-Star
Fire himself from coaching him.
KingsFanGER
Starter
So is Karl to be credited for playing Cuz inside more versus the Pacers or is this Cousins ignoring what the stupid old man tells him to do?
Glenn
Hall of Famer
I suspect there was a meeting of the minds. Boogie was asked to take some long shots but if that failed, go back to what he does best. Not a bad idea if it was a coach/player decision.
fansinceday1
Starter
Win or lose, I like to peruse the opposing teams fan forums.
Over at the pacers site you see people refer to boogie as the best center in the league. "We have no one who can handle Cousins". "Why didn't we double Cousins? I know that would open up the perimeter but Id rather double him and force Belinelli, Casspi, or Gay to beat us". "We didn't have anyone to compete in the paint".
Opposing fans know that there is a chance Boogie's time here may be coming to an end and the thought of having him on their team is simply tantalizing. IMO, if we push him out we're all gonna look back 10-15 years from now and it will be one of those franchise defining mistakes.
Over at the pacers site you see people refer to boogie as the best center in the league. "We have no one who can handle Cousins". "Why didn't we double Cousins? I know that would open up the perimeter but Id rather double him and force Belinelli, Casspi, or Gay to beat us". "We didn't have anyone to compete in the paint".
Opposing fans know that there is a chance Boogie's time here may be coming to an end and the thought of having him on their team is simply tantalizing. IMO, if we push him out we're all gonna look back 10-15 years from now and it will be one of those franchise defining mistakes.
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Chubbs
Starter
Karl will get credit for playing Cousins inside from me when he proves that he can make it the norm, rather than the exception. Right now, Karl is giving Cousins the "Fulton Reed" treatment and then, when he does predictably well at it, people want to give Karl credit. I'm not giving Karl credit for playing through his best player twenty percent of the time, when he ought to be doing it closer to eighty percent of the time.
randymoss1881
Starter
The fact tht you have to say let's give our coach credit for giving our best player the ball where it maximizes his strength the most is embarrassing. Dude should be doing that already
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I know your going to disagree, and you may be right, but I'm going to withhold judgement for a while. Sometimes you have to take a couple of steps backwards in order to take a giant step forward. Right now, Cuz is struggling, but down the road, this could end up being a big plus for him. Anyone that's self taught at golf the decides to seriously take lessons after years of playing one way, will tell you its very difficult. Everything your familiar with is changed. You feel like a fish out of water, and you fight the constant urge to quit and go back to what you know best. But if you stick it out, you end up being a much better player.
Now I realize that were not talking about golf, but the premise is the same. Even if this experiment fails in general, Cuz will probably end up being a better player overall from it. As my ski instructor said, "If you not falling, your not learning". But as I said, you could right. I only care about one thing. Winning! If we start winning on a consistent basis, then I don't care how uncomfortable Cousins is. What works best for the team is what counts. Right now I admire Cousins for being a good soldier. A lot of star players wouldn't be. So as I said, I'm going to wait and see how it eventually plays out. I hope when Willie gets back they'll let him do most of the screening and let Cuz set up in the high post where Webb used to set up. Just my simple minded opinion...
I know your going to disagree, and you may be right, but I'm going to withhold judgement for a while. Sometimes you have to take a couple of steps backwards in order to take a giant step forward. Right now, Cuz is struggling, but down the road, this could end up being a big plus for him. Anyone that's self taught at golf the decides to seriously take lessons after years of playing one way, will tell you its very difficult. Everything your familiar with is changed. You feel like a fish out of water, and you fight the constant urge to quit and go back to what you know best. But if you stick it out, you end up being a much better player.
Now I realize that were not talking about golf, but the premise is the same. Even if this experiment fails in general, Cuz will probably end up being a better player overall from it. As my ski instructor said, "If you not falling, your not learning". But as I said, you could right. I only care about one thing. Winning! If we start winning on a consistent basis, then I don't care how uncomfortable Cousins is. What works best for the team is what counts. Right now I admire Cousins for being a good soldier. A lot of star players wouldn't be. So as I said, I'm going to wait and see how it eventually plays out. I hope when Willie gets back they'll let him do most of the screening and let Cuz set up in the high post where Webb used to set up. Just my simple minded opinion...
You're right. I don't agree.
You only care about winning. I, too, care about winning but I also care about the future of a young man who is arguably the best player I have ever seen play in a Kings uniform. What works best for the team can also be what works best for Cousins, if you have a coach who is willing to accept that his way might not be the only way.
George Karl is not a fool. He coached the Kings last night in a way I thought truly played to the strengths of all concerned...and we came out of Indiana with a win I honestly didn't think we'd get. There's every reason to expect to see more of that ... and less of DMC taking pull-up threes.
EIM86
Starter
I just want to win like most of the people here. We are playing in the friggin' West! Two of the best teams, GSW and SAS already have the 1 and 2 seeds. Then there's OKC. The only teams I would say that are truly worse then us are the Lakers and Portland. After that it's teams that have played together much longer than us and have at least or maybe even more talent than we do. Let's give it some more time to see what we can get out of this. If we are over .500 by the end of the year and make the playoffs we are moving in the right direction.
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Blob
Starter
First of all Cousins isn't going anywhere. Second of all there can be organizational issues and Cousins issues. Vivek was (is) overbearing as owner. Vlade is (was) a novice in training. Karl was (is) over-delegating and lacking in strong leadership and sideline presence. And Cousins was (is) impetuous and suboptimal shape (due to injuries and excess fat).
But there is valid point to be made on your behalf (I think) which is although Cousins efficiency stats leave a little to be desired, and my #1 benchmark since the season started (along with SG spot) to whether this team will make the playoffs, the attention he draws is monumental. Its massive.
As Donald Trump would say it's HUUUUUUUUUGE.
This attention has significant value and Vlade knows this. He's not a dummy. Without it, the other players on the floor don't have as much space to roam or room for error.
So even though his FG% and TS% are slipping (due to his performance mentally and physically more than system) his TOs are high and his defensive effort involves swiping at the ball more than moving feet, Boogie makes things go to the extent they do:
- Rondo gets to the basket a lot because teams are rotating towards Boogie out of the PnR
- Rudy and Omri are getting cleans looks because the floor shifts to stop Boogie from rumbling the lane
- The transition speed of Rondo and Collison come into play with Boogie clearing the boards
- The size and presence of Boogie in the paint covers for defensive flaws on the perimeter
- The team is more confident collectively when they have him as a central force
But he has still underachieved relative to expectations and to his potential. He played the best basketball of his career over the last 2 months of the season including back-to-back 20-20-10 games (!). The player we see now is not that dynamic or beast mode player and critics have been pointing that out more or less.
Cousins has been a B- or C+ this year due to injuries and sputtering December. His A or A- level performance is MVP caliber or among Top 5 players in the world. An A- or A level play and contention for MVP was the hope to start the year. (He even said that was his goal) So even though he has not performed near this level, his play still gives team a fighting chance.
The frustrating thing for me is that he would be a much more effective player if he did not try to do more but if he tried to do less. If he did not try behind the back passes after opponent cut halftime lead from 15 to 6 in span of 3 minutes.
The best play Cousins made in the 4th last night (and only contribution beside 2 free throws) was to hold the ball against the double team and survey the floor until he made the simple pass for the open 3 by Collison. This made the game 104-100 and gave team cushion to ride to win. Too often Cousins would try to split defenders or bowl over his man and then plead for the call.
If you are basketball fan and criticize this type of play I have no fault with you. I would instead criticize the critic who is critical of the critic!!!!
(I swear this makes sense maybe only in my mind however)Being the best player on the team bears a lot of responsibility including trusting your teammates even though they have less talent. When Cousins shows more trust and patience as he did on that play the Kings can have more games like last night and make 2016 special.
Siranthony
Starter
parker
Bench
This thread makes me "feel lost." I don't know if I am supposed to be happy the King's have won 5 out of 7 or disappointed because they lost two winnable games.
Should I be angry at Karl for not maximizing the team's talent or criticizing Cousins or some other player? I'm out of sync, not feeling right. Some nights I'm a hater and others a fan tool.
I'm lost right now.
Should I be angry at Karl for not maximizing the team's talent or criticizing Cousins or some other player? I'm out of sync, not feeling right. Some nights I'm a hater and others a fan tool.
I'm lost right now.
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