Deal in the works?

Get over the shotblocking thing. The proof is out there if you stop being blinded by your ego long enough to see it. How many factual examples do you need to be beaten over the head with to finally admit that it is not a necessity?
We are all talking about the Kings team. We all know that our team sucks in defense and it seems no two or three players on this team are intelligent enough to give us a meaningful defense.

Therefore, it is a necessity, unless you want us to forever be sucking in defense.

Case close.
 
We are all talking about the Kings team. We all know that our team sucks in defense and it seems no two or three players on this team are intelligent enough to give us a meaningful defense.

Therefore, it is a necessity, unless you want us to forever be sucking in defense.

Case close.

I hate t break it to you, but adding a shot blocker to a bad defensive team only succeeds in adding to the amount of blocked shots a bad defensive team gets. A team NEEDS to play team defense to succeed. Now if you can have a shot blocker as part of that it makes it easier. But if a team doesn't play good team defense, then a shot blocker won't help their defense very much.

Did you learn nothing from watching Dally play his one season here? He is a known shot blocker, and the Kings were still at the bottom of the league at protecting the rim. That was because they weren't playing defense as a team. So if you are looking for a quick fix, then you will likely be dissappointed.
 
BTW, I often don't think people even fully knew what they were watching with the Golden Era Kings teams. The ONLY era mind you when we DID have shotblocking in there. Here's a few fun factoids that people seem to have missed:

Vlade Divac
Career Blocks: 1631
25th All Time in NBA history

Chris Webber
Career Blocks: 1200
51st All Time in NBA history

Webber/Divac/Pollard combined blocks per season
'99-'00: 3.8 (1.7/1.3/0.8)
'00-01: 4.1 (1.7/1.1/1.3)
'01-02: 3.6 (1.4/1.2/1.0)
'02-03: 4.5 (1.3/1.3/1.9) *Keon Clark replaced Pollard this season

compare that to the three headed monster of the best defensive team in the league this year:
Noah/Gibson/Asik = 1.44/1.29/1.03 = 3.76

now compare it to our three headed "monster" this past season:
Cousins/Thompson/Hickson = 1.17/0.69/0.65 = 2.51

and tell me which team, and which result, those classic teams more closely resembled. That frontline was big, long, and ABSOLUTELY could block shots.

Again, you have in no way proved your point. Could Webber, Divac, and Pollard block a shot here and there? Sure. However, were they ever considered shot blockers? Nope. Was anybody ever intimidated when driving to the rim on them? Nope. And that's precisely the point. Coincidentally enough, of the 4 seasons of stats you listed, the 2001-02 season was their worst average yet it was the very best team they fielded as well as the furthest they ever advanced in the postseason.

As I've already pointed out, the best of those early 2000's Kings teams blocked around the same amount of shots per game as this current team did so it's pretty apparent that shot blocking wasn't the key factor to the success of their defense. Their success revolved around all five guys playing exceptional team defense.

Some of the other teams I listed earlier fit this same defensive mold.

Lastly, I'm not saying shot blocking plays no role whatsoever and is completely unimportant. However it's been proven that you can be pretty average at it and still get the job done. I'm more concerned with the team improving their communication, footwork, and rotations on the defensive end more than I'm worried about shotblocking. Shotblocking is merely a band aid for not being able to stay in front of your man and your help defense not rotating into position in time. If you improve in those areas, you greatly lessen the need for the band aid.
 
I hate t break it to you, but adding a shot blocker to a bad defensive team only succeeds in adding to the amount of blocked shots a bad defensive team gets. A team NEEDS to play team defense to succeed. Now if you can have a shot blocker as part of that it makes it easier. But if a team doesn't play good team defense, then a shot blocker won't help their defense very much.

Did you learn nothing from watching Dally play his one season here? He is a known shot blocker, and the Kings were still at the bottom of the league at protecting the rim. That was because they weren't playing defense as a team. So if you are looking for a quick fix, then you will likely be dissappointed.

I agree completely.
 
Whats with the hard on for blocked shots? Blocking shots is not the end all be all. Our #1 defensive problem is team defense and I'll say the #2 problem is pure stupidity. For example you'll have a guy like Grant Hill posting up Tyreke on the wing. Now Tyreke can handle Hill 1 on 1 but out of no where, we'll have Thornton run off Dudley to go double team Hill for a second. As soon as Thornton gets to Hill, he kicks it out to Dudley for a wide open 3. Rinse and repeat this process all season long with every damn player on our team. I don't know if the players are just dumb or being coached that way, but there's a reason why our opponents damn near lead the league in 3 point percentage. We leave them wide open all the time. Not because we can't stay in front of them, it's because we leave them to double team guys for no apparent reason. Kobe is one of the greatest players of all time, but I'd rather have him force up a 16ft fadeaway over Tyreke than kick it out to Blake for a wide open 3.

We can fix that problem with our own personnel through coaching and get the same defensive progress as we could by getting a shotblocker.
 
Whats with the hard on for blocked shots? Blocking shots is not the end all be all. Our #1 defensive problem is team defense and I'll say the #2 problem is pure stupidity. For example you'll have a guy like Grant Hill posting up Tyreke on the wing. Now Tyreke can handle Hill 1 on 1 but out of no where, we'll have Thornton run off Dudley to go double team Hill for a second. As soon as Thornton gets to Hill, he kicks it out to Dudley for a wide open 3. Rinse and repeat this process all season long with every damn player on our team. I don't know if the players are just dumb or being coached that way, but there's a reason why our opponents damn near lead the league in 3 point percentage. We leave them wide open all the time. Not because we can't stay in front of them, it's because we leave them to double team guys for no apparent reason. Kobe is one of the greatest players of all time, but I'd rather have him force up a 16ft fadeaway over Tyreke than kick it out to Blake for a wide open 3.

We can fix that problem with our own personnel through coaching and get the same defensive progress as we could by getting a shotblocker.

Disagree. We are not going to become a good defensive team without adding some good defenders, whether it's on the perimeter or inside. While you're spot on about the whole coaching and defensive schematics thing, a lot of it is also just not having good defenders. That's the whole point of having defenisve players. If every Tom Dick and Harry could just magically play good team defense under good coaching guys like Sefolosha would be out of a job.
 
Disagree. We are not going to become a good defensive team without adding some good defenders, whether it's on the perimeter or inside. While you're spot on about the whole coaching and defensive schematics thing, a lot of it is also just not having good defenders. That's the whole point of having defenisve players. If every Tom Dick and Harry could just magically play good team defense under good coaching guys like Sefolosha would be out of a job.

You want to know the irony in this statement? Adelman's last year the Maloofs said they wanted to go to a more defensive team. Elston Turner said if you want better defense get better defensive players. The Maloofs flipped out wouldn't look at Turner as Adelmans replacement and have held the grudge ever since. Funny part is the team hasn't been as good a defensive team since that point.
 
Disagree. We are not going to become a good defensive team without adding some good defenders, whether it's on the perimeter or inside. While you're spot on about the whole coaching and defensive schematics thing, a lot of it is also just not having good defenders. That's the whole point of having defenisve players. If every Tom Dick and Harry could just magically play good team defense under good coaching guys like Sefolosha would be out of a job.

Aside from Thornton and Jimmer. IMO, our roster is actually full of guys capable of playing a good "team defense", that includes both Hayes and IT who are undersized too. We need to make good strides this offseason in playing a good team defense. My doubt is that Smart may not be that coach. But provided he worked under both Nelson and Popovich, I still hope that at least he could run plays from Popovich's defense book.

The Spurs defensive system is mainly anchored in Duncan who is a ground bound shot blocker unlike Ibaka or McGee and normally a SF (i.e. Bowen now Kawhi) that takes on the best wing player that the opponent have. That shouldn't be too hard for our roster to do. Am I right?

my assumption is that if he's not using DMC on offense he will probably a lot of Nelson like plays.
 
I hate t break it to you, but adding a shot blocker to a bad defensive team only succeeds in adding to the amount of blocked shots a bad defensive team gets. A team NEEDS to play team defense to succeed. Now if you can have a shot blocker as part of that it makes it easier. But if a team doesn't play good team defense, then a shot blocker won't help their defense very much.

Did you learn nothing from watching Dally play his one season here? He is a known shot blocker, and the Kings were still at the bottom of the league at protecting the rim. That was because they weren't playing defense as a team. So if you are looking for a quick fix, then you will likely be dissappointed.

You may be right, but there isn't enough games to prove it one way or another. Dally averaged all of 24 mins a game when he was in Sac, and I don't think any definitive conclusion can be draw when he only played about two quarters a game.

Things to consider: the Kings finished with an awful 29.3% winning % in 2010-11, but they were 9-13 (40.9%) when Dally played more than 30 mins, 6-9 (40%) when Dally had 3 blocks or more, and 2-1 (66%) when Dally played more than 40 mins. That's too small a sample to draw a conclusion, but it's food for thought: what if the Kings had rim protection for more than 36 mins a game? Would that have given the team closer to a 40% winning instead of 29.3%? That's 10 more wins! That's a big difference!

Now, if Tyreke had been healthy in 2010-11, and had Dally played closer to 36 mins a game; what'd have happened?... we'll never know. Yes, the Kings need to play team defense. Yes, a shot blocker is not going to erase a mountains of boneheaded defensive plays; but my thinking is always that a bad defensive team with a shot blocker is much preferable to a bad defensive team without a shot blocker.
 
Whats with the hard on for blocked shots? Blocking shots is not the end all be all. Our #1 defensive problem is team defense and I'll say the #2 problem is pure stupidity. For example you'll have a guy like Grant Hill posting up Tyreke on the wing. Now Tyreke can handle Hill 1 on 1 but out of no where, we'll have Thornton run off Dudley to go double team Hill for a second. As soon as Thornton gets to Hill, he kicks it out to Dudley for a wide open 3. Rinse and repeat this process all season long with every damn player on our team. I don't know if the players are just dumb or being coached that way, but there's a reason why our opponents damn near lead the league in 3 point percentage. We leave them wide open all the time. Not because we can't stay in front of them, it's because we leave them to double team guys for no apparent reason. Kobe is one of the greatest players of all time, but I'd rather have him force up a 16ft fadeaway over Tyreke than kick it out to Blake for a wide open 3.

We can fix that problem with our own personnel through coaching and get the same defensive progress as we could by getting a shotblocker.


Classic.:D That example epitomizes the futility of the Kings D last year. And I agree wholeheartedly that it has much less to do with ability, much more to do with discipline, coaching, and desire.
 
I used to think coaching was a bigger factor in a teams' defensive success back in the Adelman era. But then I noticed that some years he coached teams that were at the top of the league on defense, and other years he coached teams that were at the bottom. What changed? The players. Why did team defense suddenly suck in 2003-2004? Because Brad Miller and injured Chris Webber were different players than healthier Chris Webber. It wasn't because all of a sudden the team forgot how to play good team defense.
 
I used to think coaching was a bigger factor in a teams' defensive success back in the Adelman era. But then I noticed that some years he coached teams that were at the top of the league on defense, and other years he coached teams that were at the bottom. What changed? The players. Why did team defense suddenly suck in 2003-2004? Because Brad Miller and injured Chris Webber were different players than healthier Chris Webber. It wasn't because all of a sudden the team forgot how to play good team defense.

That example has much more applicability to a veteran team that knows the defensive ropes; not a young team that doesn't know what they're doing on defense.
 
That example has much more applicability to a veteran team that knows the defensive ropes; not a young team that doesn't know what they're doing on defense.

Why? It was the veteran team that knew the defensive ropes that sucked when a couple players changed. The point is that "knowing the defensive ropes" is not actually as important as it seems, so expecting a young team to get significantly better simply through experience isn't wise. They'll get marginally better, but not significantly.
 
Again, you have in no way proved your point. Could Webber, Divac, and Pollard block a shot here and there? Sure. However, were they ever considered shot blockers? Nope. Was anybody ever intimidated when driving to the rim on them? Nope. And that's precisely the point. Coincidentally enough, of the 4 seasons of stats you listed, the 2001-02 season was their worst average yet it was the very best team they fielded as well as the furthest they ever advanced in the postseason.

As I've already pointed out, the best of those early 2000's Kings teams blocked around the same amount of shots per game as this current team did so it's pretty apparent that shot blocking wasn't the key factor to the success of their defense. Their success revolved around all five guys playing exceptional team defense.

You still don't get it.

First of all a shotblock is not a shotblock. Francisco Garcia blocking a shot is just another way for a guy to make his opponent miss a shot. A guy like JT blocking a shot every other game is again just a guy making one missed FG atttempt. Nobody worries about him when they go in there. But now length and consistent defensive challenges inside change the whole tenor of the game. The effect goes far beyond the number of blocks itself. We got a fair number of blocks this year 1) because of pace. We ran and gunned and chucked up shots at a huge pace. Our block percentage rank is considerably lower than our blocks. And 2) because we got a lot of blocks from relatively unimportant positions. Cisco blocked shots. Outlaw blocked shots. Reke blocked shots. Meanwhile Dwight was the only guy blocking shots in Orlando (much like our trio were the only guys blocking shots back in the day in Sacto), and that was far far more effective, because a major shotblcoker anchoring the middle matters far above his block numbers. Guards and SFs do not.

And you are a little confused if you don't think people had to worry about our frontline inside back in the day. Lots of length, lots of challenges. Having Hedo as a long SF helped as well.

Also, trying to tag the very minor dip in 01-02 is silly, but somewhat irrelevant anyway -- 02-03 was the best team, and best defensive team. Just killed by the ultimate ill timed injury.
 
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I used to think coaching was a bigger factor in a teams' defensive success back in the Adelman era. But then I noticed that some years he coached teams that were at the top of the league on defense, and other years he coached teams that were at the bottom. What changed? The players. Why did team defense suddenly suck in 2003-2004? Because Brad Miller and injured Chris Webber were different players than healthier Chris Webber. It wasn't because all of a sudden the team forgot how to play good team defense.

Well Rick took over a defensive minded team in the Rockets and they got gradually worse on defense each year he was there. Of course, they started parting with defensive players, but that's also because the FO saw they had a coach that valued offensive talent over defensive talent. They adjusted the roster to fit Rick's style, and that meant Kevin Martin instead of a defensive role player.
 
Well Rick took over a defensive minded team in the Rockets and they got gradually worse on defense each year he was there. Of course, they started parting with defensive players, but that's also because the FO saw they had a coach that valued offensive talent over defensive talent. They adjusted the roster to fit Rick's style, and that meant Kevin Martin instead of a defensive role player.


That was actually a great example of uolj's point. Rick CAN and has coached great defensive teams. But you take awy his personnel, give him Kevin Martin, Luis Scola, repalce his 7'5" center with a 6'6" one...and he has also coached quite poor defensive teams.

8 years later I still remmebr his warning/dismay about the roster for the '03-04 squad after we had purged Keon, JJ, Pollard, Hedo, and lost Webb. Replaced them with Brad, Songaila, Massenberg, Peeler etc. To a lot of us still seeing a lot of familiar faces it felt like we'd kept most of our core. But Rick's statement was something along the lines of you can't tell me this is the same team defensively. And boy was he right.

Now where I would differ is I think a truly defense first coach IS able to manufacture defense from nothing. rick is not defense adverse, but there is a gap between him and a Thibodeua or a Jeff Van Gundy or somebody. Skiles. Peole who will actually sell out the offense to make sure they get the defense first.
 
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Now where I would differ is I think a truly defense first coach IS able to manufacture defense from nothing. rick is not defense adverse, but there is a gap between him and a Thibodeua or a Jeff Van Gundy or somebody. Skiles. Peole who will actually sell out the offense to make sure they get the defense first.

I don't think we actual differ on that. I was thinking the same thing. But the question I was considering when I posted was about whether you can just make the guys you have work harder/differently and get real results. The best you can do is bring in one of those great defensive coaches, but even then he'll likely play different players in different positions which goes back to a difference in talent rather than improving with the same guys.
 
Why? It was the veteran team that knew the defensive ropes that sucked when a couple players changed. The point is that "knowing the defensive ropes" is not actually as important as it seems, so expecting a young team to get significantly better simply through experience isn't wise. They'll get marginally better, but not significantly.

Look at the Spurs. They don't exactly have top-notch athleticism on that team, but they play the right way and get the job done. Look at the Thunder with mega athleticism before they committed to playing on the defensive end and the change in their performance after Brooks challenged them to play on the defensive end of the floor. It's extremely important to both know your defensive responsibilities on the court, including switching assignments, and to carry those assignments out immediately when the situation arises. The Kings were obviously not doing that last year. They were a joke in that regard. The missed assignments, brain-dead play, and overall apathy on defense this team showed last year had nothing to do with talent or defensive ceiling. It had everything to do with their ignorance/apathy on the court.
 
Look at the Spurs. They don't exactly have top-notch athleticism on that team, but they play the right way and get the job done. Look at the Thunder with mega athleticism before they committed to playing on the defensive end and the change in their performance after Brooks challenged them to play on the defensive end of the floor. It's extremely important to both know your defensive responsibilities on the court, including switching assignments, and to carry those assignments out immediately when the situation arises. The Kings were obviously not doing that last year. They were a joke in that regard. The missed assignments, brain-dead play, and overall apathy on defense this team showed last year had nothing to do with talent or defensive ceiling. It had everything to do with their ignorance/apathy on the court.

Defensive talent is not the same as top-notch athleticism. Kevin Martin is athletic.

And again your examples seem to support my point. The Thunder have Ibaka, plus Westbrook and Sefolosha who got votes for the all-defensive teams. The Spurs actually gained athleticism, but aren't an elite defensive team anymore. Did their defensive effectiveness drop because they forgot how to play team defense? No, it dropped partly because they lost some of their defensive talent, and partly because their best defender just got older (Duncan).

The Kings will get better as the young players mature and improve at team defense. But that will only bump them up a little bit. They could also improve with a defensive minded coach who played lineups intended to increase effectiveness on defense. But even as a best case scenario those changes would bring the team closer to the middle of the pack defensively. Bringing in defensive talent, on the other hand, could easily bump them up to above average.
 
Defensive talent is not the same as top-notch athleticism. Kevin Martin is athletic.

And again your examples seem to support my point. The Thunder have Ibaka, plus Westbrook and Sefolosha who got votes for the all-defensive teams. The Spurs actually gained athleticism, but aren't an elite defensive team anymore. Did their defensive effectiveness drop because they forgot how to play team defense? No, it dropped partly because they lost some of their defensive talent, and partly because their best defender just got older (Duncan).

The Kings will get better as the young players mature and improve at team defense. But that will only bump them up a little bit. They could also improve with a defensive minded coach who played lineups intended to increase effectiveness on defense. But even as a best case scenario those changes would bring the team closer to the middle of the pack defensively. Bringing in defensive talent, on the other hand, could easily bump them up to above average.

My example doesn't support your point because the athleticism the Thunder had a couple of years ago did not show itself in defensive performance on the court. They were a very athletic poor defensive team. Same basic cast of characters. Same talent level. Just different knowledge and discipline between the ears. You don't just throw out athleticism on the floor and voila, have defensive performance. You have to commit to it. The Thunder, under Brooks, made the commitment. If you think that Robinson, Tyreke, Cousins, IT, T-Will, Thompson, and Salmons don't have defensive talent, then we'll have to agree to disagree. That's plenty of defensive talent; it's just very undisciplined defensive talent.
 
My example doesn't support your point because the athleticism the Thunder had a couple of years ago did not show itself in defensive performance on the court. They were a very athletic poor defensive team. Same basic cast of characters. Same talent level. Just different knowledge and discipline between the ears. You don't just throw out athleticism on the floor and voila, have defensive performance. You have to commit to it. The Thunder, under Brooks, made the commitment.

How long ago? 2009-10 they were 8th in defensive efficiency. The next year they dipped to 13th. This past year they were 9th. I don't have any memory that would contradict those numbers either. Even if you consider going from 13 to 9 to be an improvement, why would you think it was commitment to defense that did it rather than the addition of Perkins?

If you think that Robinson, Tyreke, Cousins, IT, T-Will, Thompson, and Salmons don't have defensive talent, then we'll have to agree to disagree. That's plenty of defensive talent; it's just very undisciplined defensive talent.
I think that's mediocre defensive talent (as a group). Also note that those aren't the only guys that played last year. As I said before, putting your better defenders on the floor will improve your effectiveness, I consider that to be part of the "talent". I just don't see any evidence that some sort of "commitment to defense" does much. The "commitment to defense" comes from the front office getting players who can defend and putting together a roster that maximizes each others' strengths and covers weaknesses, and then it comes from a coach who puts the players on the floor to do the same.

If you want the Kings to jump up to the 25th best defense, then sure, bank on individual commitment to defense and learning to play team defense. If you want them to get up to the teens or top half of the league, then you'll need more help.
 
Why? It was the veteran team that knew the defensive ropes that sucked when a couple players changed. The point is that "knowing the defensive ropes" is not actually as important as it seems, so expecting a young team to get significantly better simply through experience isn't wise. They'll get marginally better, but not significantly.

What you just said isn't logical. Think about it for a moment. To say that having a knowledgable person do something, gives you the same, or close to the same result as having an unknowledgable person do something, flies in the face of everything we know about improving at our job, whatever it may be. The reason one person gets paid more than another, is because in most cases, he has more experience. He knows more! Now there may have been a breakdown in the Kings defense that year, but it had nothing to do with people knowing too much about how to play good team defense. All it takes on team defense is for one person to not do what he was susposed to do, and the whole thing can break down. And on a good team that generally plays good team defense, thats when having an elite shotblocker can make a huge difference.

This whole discussion is getting ridiculous. No one here that I know is arguing against having a shotblocker. I would love to have one. All were saying is that if you don't have one, you don't have to automaticly start considering sucide. You can still win without one! Its been done! And maybe the teams that did it, did it with a combination of players blocking shots. But you know what thats called? Team defense!!!!!!!!!! Thats what you do when you don't have an ELITE shotblocker, and thats what were talking about here. So lets keep apples, apples, and oranges, oranges! Lets not mix them together in the discussion, and I think we'll come to some sort of agreement.
 
How long ago? 2009-10 they were 8th in defensive efficiency. The next year they dipped to 13th. This past year they were 9th. I don't have any memory that would contradict those numbers either. Even if you consider going from 13 to 9 to be an improvement, why would you think it was commitment to defense that did it rather than the addition of Perkins?


I think that's mediocre defensive talent (as a group). Also note that those aren't the only guys that played last year. As I said before, putting your better defenders on the floor will improve your effectiveness, I consider that to be part of the "talent". I just don't see any evidence that some sort of "commitment to defense" does much. The "commitment to defense" comes from the front office getting players who can defend and putting together a roster that maximizes each others' strengths and covers weaknesses, and then it comes from a coach who puts the players on the floor to do the same.

If you want the Kings to jump up to the 25th best defense, then sure, bank on individual commitment to defense and learning to play team defense. If you want them to get up to the teens or top half of the league, then you'll need more help.

You say go get players that can defend. So tell me, what makes one player a better defender than the next guy? Really, I'm curious. Whats the major difference. You don't think that Tyreke, IT, T.Will, Robinson etc. make up a group that can excell at defense. You think their mediocre. Tell me whats different about them than Prince, Battier, or Batum etc. Are any of the three I mentioned better athletes than Robinson, who is freak athlete. Or Tyreke? Whats the problem with IT, other than being a tad on the short side. He's a very good athlete, as is T. Will who is another freak athlete.

So it doesn't appear that athleticism is the problem. So what then is the problem, other than commitment, and knowledge? Why did the Bulls suddenly turn into a very good defensive team. Could it have been a new coach that was known for defense? Why does Pop's at San Antonio always have a team that plays good defense, despite the fact that he constantly brings in new faces. Could it be that he coaches and stresses defense. While I agree that having athletic players capable of playing defense is important, the biggest difference is having a coach that says you play defense or you don't play, and having players that are committed to playing defense. The Kings team with Vlade, Webb, Peja, Christie, and Bibby ended up being a good defensive team, but that team only had one player that came close to making the all defensive team, and that was Christie. Bibby by himself, was adequate at best as an iso defender, but in the concept of team defense, he was fine. A lot of the credit goes to Elston Turner, who coached the defense. Wish we had him back.
 
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What you just said isn't logical. Think about it for a moment. To say that having a knowledgable person do something, gives you the same, or close to the same result as having an unknowledgable person do something, flies in the face of everything we know about improving at our job, whatever it may be. The reason one person gets paid more than another, is because in most cases, he has more experience. He knows more!

I appreciate your response, but in this and your other post above you seem to overlooking points I have already made. For example, you mentioned the Kings teams of the glory years. I already discussed how that Kings team was great at defense in 2002-03 and very bad in 2003-04. What changed? Did the coaches change? No. Did players' attitudes change? I doubt it. Did their commitment to team defense change? I doubt that, too. Did they lose experience? Of course not. Or was it a change in personnel? Bingo! Swap a healthy-ish Webber for Brad Miller (and later a post-injury Webber) and switch out the defensive-minded roleplayers for offensive-minded ones and what happens? The defense suffers. Bibby, Jackson, Christie, Stojakovic and Divac didn't forget how to play team defense, they just didn't have the same guys around them that helped them excel the year before. I (with Kingster's help) gave several other examples of coaches who have led great defensive teams and mediocre or poor ones, or of teams that changed a couple players and went from bad to good or vice versa, including Popovich's teams. I can't think of a good explanation for why those examples don't support the notion that which players are playing is the number one factor in how good of a defense you have. (BTW, did you know the Bulls moved into the top 10 in defense under Del Negro the year before Thibodeau started as coach?)

As for what I quoted above, I strongly disagree. People tend to do well in jobs that they have talent for. Hard work, practice, and experience all help, just as it does for defense. But if you plug a hard worker into a job that they don't have the talent for, they won't succeed. This is especially true for something like basketball. And defense uses basketball skills just like shooting, passing and other skills help on offense. Some people just have a talent for different skills. Some guys are naturally good at lateral movement. Some guys have naturally quick hands and timing. Some guys can jump quickly or jump back up quickly after landing on the first jump. Some guys are tall. Some guys are fast. These are all skills that lead to talent on defense. The guys with less talent can work hard, but they can't become great. And a team that is missing certain skills can work together to try to overcome them, but they need the talent to be able to do so effectively.

This whole discussion is getting ridiculous. No one here that I know is arguing against having a shotblocker. I would love to have one. All were saying is that if you don't have one, you don't have to automaticly start considering sucide. You can still win without one! Its been done! And maybe the teams that did it, did it with a combination of players blocking shots. But you know what thats called? Team defense!!!!!!!!!! Thats what you do when you don't have an ELITE shotblocker, and thats what were talking about here. So lets keep apples, apples, and oranges, oranges! Lets not mix them together in the discussion, and I think we'll come to some sort of agreement.
My comments weren't specifically about shotblocking, although that's the most glaring weakness on the current Kings team defensively. I just think the whole notion of "commitment to defense" and "team defense" is extremely overrated as a tool for getting better.

Still, I'd like to respond to this since you brought it up. I think you're creating a straw man here. Most of the calls for shotblocking don't specify that an elite shotblocker is a requirement to avoid suicide. Instead, people are saying that a shotblocking presence is almost essential and by far the easiest way to improve the Kings' defense. They are also saying that because the Kings have a group of players already that don't block shots very well, the ideal solution is for one individual who is very good to great at it to come in and provide that skill rather than switching out most of the players in the group to get several mediocre guys to do it as a team.
 
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