I'm new to the board but a fan since 89 when I moved to Sacramento from the bay area. This is my first post so take it easy on me. Per Jason Jones' interview with Geoff Petrie it appears that the front office is still looking to improve through free agency & trades. With a majority of FAs already signed to contracts do you guys still think Petrie does something other than re-signing JT and potentially T-Will? Do the Magoof handcuffs leave Petrie with no alterior ways to improve OUR team? Although Dorrell Wright would make an improvement at SF but not vast all the meanwhile maybe getting away from Chuck Hayes' unfulfilled contract I predict that Petrie has a deal in the works with one of our usual trade partners...the Sixers. Rod Thorn was quoted at saying he has some movement in the works. I can't help but think that Iggy might be on the move. One can only wish. Of course Iguodala only has a year remaining but I would take the chance but would the Magoofs? Who have clearly lost this city's respect (probably with most owners as well). #TeamBURKLE
Deal in the works?
- Thread starter LEXXR8D
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To be fair Petrie was making the same noises way before FA started and we haven't attacked anyone by the looks of it.
Whether a trade goes down is another question, but as of now, who do people really see us trading? Salmons, Outlaw, Garcia and maybe Whiteside and Honneycut as sweeteners are the names that keep coming up, but who is really going to take them players for something that could improve our team.
The reality is to move forward, and i mean a realistic amount, we need to get way way better on defence, lock down a more coherent offensive scheme and hope there's a big jump (again) from Cuz.
The only thing that keeps me positive is knowing that we "have an offseason programme" this year, and maybe the guys have been working out together.
Whether a trade goes down is another question, but as of now, who do people really see us trading? Salmons, Outlaw, Garcia and maybe Whiteside and Honneycut as sweeteners are the names that keep coming up, but who is really going to take them players for something that could improve our team.
The reality is to move forward, and i mean a realistic amount, we need to get way way better on defence, lock down a more coherent offensive scheme and hope there's a big jump (again) from Cuz.
The only thing that keeps me positive is knowing that we "have an offseason programme" this year, and maybe the guys have been working out together.
I still like Dudley as our utility 3. Still young, high IQ, willing to defend, can shoot 3s, and long term but handy contract. Now that Phx is getting Beasely maybe they are willing to trade him for Garcia(expiring). He and Cisco almost brings the same thing to the table but age and injury is really slowing Cisco now.
Maybe this guy could be the answer to our SF woes.
I am forever looking at ways to dump Hayes and Salmons so there is method to my madness....
Mikhail Prohokov is desperate to get Dwight and is not concerned about paying luxury tax considering he makes something like $20 million per day (that we know of
) and Magic would be desperate to rid themselves of Hedo's contract.
Hedo for Salmons and Hayes.....I would do. Hedo is severely overpaid but even at $12 million next season, he is still better than Salmons and Hayes. On top of that the last year of his deal is not guaranteed making him virtually an expiring contract.
Mikhail Prohokov is desperate to get Dwight and is not concerned about paying luxury tax considering he makes something like $20 million per day (that we know of
) and Magic would be desperate to rid themselves of Hedo's contract.Hedo for Salmons and Hayes.....I would do. Hedo is severely overpaid but even at $12 million next season, he is still better than Salmons and Hayes. On top of that the last year of his deal is not guaranteed making him virtually an expiring contract.
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I am forever looking at ways to dump Hayes and Salmons so there is method to my madness....
Mikhail Prohokov is desperate to get Dwight and is not concerned about paying luxury tax considering he makes something like $20 million per day (that we know of ) and Magic would be desperate to rid themselves of Hedo's contract.
Hedo for Salmons and Hayes.....I would do. Hedo is severely overpaid but even at $12 million next season, he is still better than Salmons and Hayes. On top of that the last year of his deal is not guaranteed making him virtually an expiring contract.
Mikhail Prohokov is desperate to get Dwight and is not concerned about paying luxury tax considering he makes something like $20 million per day (that we know of
) and Magic would be desperate to rid themselves of Hedo's contract.Hedo for Salmons and Hayes.....I would do. Hedo is severely overpaid but even at $12 million next season, he is still better than Salmons and Hayes. On top of that the last year of his deal is not guaranteed making him virtually an expiring contract.
Orlando would nit be getting those guys, the Nyets would
Jimmer, Thornton, Hayes, Garcia, Whiteside, Salmons, and Outlaw are all expendable assets. Of those, Outlaw, Salmons, Garcia and Hayes all underperformed for their pay last year and will be hard to move because of that unless we take back another bad contract. Jimmer might be moveable on potential alone despite last season, but don't expect to get anything amazing back (and I get the feeling that the front office still sees him as a merchandise mover.) Whiteside would probably get us a 2015 second round draft pick or some cash.
Thornton is realistically our most valuable asset in a trade, but the number of teams looking for a good scorer who can't defend is shrinking quickly.
Thornton is realistically our most valuable asset in a trade, but the number of teams looking for a good scorer who can't defend is shrinking quickly.
Orlando would nit be getting those guys, the Nyets would
So I'm totally confused as to why you think the Net's would even be remotely interested in aquiring Salmons and Hayes. If its just about the Magic ridding themselves of Hedo, then why not just take on Hedo's contract instead. As you pointed out, Hedo is almost an expirinig contract for around 12 mil. Salmons and Hayes contracts exceed the total of Hedo's contract, and are for more years than Hedo's contract. Where is the logic in making this deal, other than helping us? Am I missing something here?
I think folks need to understand something. Whether you or I like or dislike Whiteside or Jimmer is immaterial. The Kings have money invested in both players, and still see potential in both players. Why do you think the team invests money in their summer league program. both Whiteside and Jimmer are going nowhere. They both have potential, and more importantly, both are cheap at the moment. Just because you think of them as cannon fodder, doesn't mean the Kings do. So unless a team specifically requests one of them in an important trade, I don't see them being used as just throw in's.
When your proposing a trade, its not about wishful thinking, its about using logic for both teams involved. I can dream up lots of trades the help us, but that the other team wouldn't be interested in.
When your proposing a trade, its not about wishful thinking, its about using logic for both teams involved. I can dream up lots of trades the help us, but that the other team wouldn't be interested in.
If the Nets were trying to convince Gerald to come here in exchange for our #1 next year (which may or may not be legal despite our ongoing conditional first situation) I would listen seriously. As they are merely peddling another good rebounding PF with no shotblocking potential this is another one we have to sit out.
It's just normal forum talk. People want to trade their teams garbage for solid players on another team. We have to give up something to get something and we only have a few pieces worth a damn as it is. No one is going to give up anyone of value for Hayes, Garcia, Outlaw or Salmons. We can thank Petrie for managing to pile on 3 of those 4 terrible contracts in one offseason.
If we go into next season with-out addressing the SF problem, I will be disappointed.
Having said that, I'm hoping that at the minimum we at least sign TWill to a cheap multi-year deal.
It's very possible that the FO really believe that Whiteside is ready for a steady contribution on the team. It's also possible that they believe Outlaw/Garcia/Honeycutt/TWill can bring decent production to the SF position.
It would be great if we had a clue what the FO thought about our young developing players as it would make it easier to determine their level of concern regarding certain team needs.
Having said that, I'm hoping that at the minimum we at least sign TWill to a cheap multi-year deal.
It's very possible that the FO really believe that Whiteside is ready for a steady contribution on the team. It's also possible that they believe Outlaw/Garcia/Honeycutt/TWill can bring decent production to the SF position.
It would be great if we had a clue what the FO thought about our young developing players as it would make it easier to determine their level of concern regarding certain team needs.
I kind of doubt they will give up on Jimmer after one year as he could become one of the best three point shooters in the league. I also doubt if they will give up on Whiteside as he may become one of the league's best shot blockers. I don't understand people so willing to give up on players before they know how good they can be. Each can play a unique and valued role if they pan out.
Thus far we have, in dazzling fashion, addressed exactly NONE of the needs identified not by this board, but by Petrie himself at the beginning of the offseason. Those needs were "defensive length, steady the SF position, shooting". So far we have kept Jason, a solid move in itself, and drafted a guy who doesn't actually fill any of them (but by resinging Jason at least we did not repeat the folly of last season where we actually blew a hole open in our lineup to jam an overhyped rookie into).
It is fortunate that I see the bulk of this team's talent already on the roster, because as usual we are behind the 8 ball on bringing it in from the outside. Not just talent. Specific NEEDS. Holes that need patching and we've gone through the draft, and the early rush fo free agency wihtou having made any progress on them at all.
I agree, which takes me back to wondering what the FO actually thinks.
Perhaps they think that Whiteside is ready for big minutes, and if he is, other than Anthony Davis, I'm not certain anyone in this last draft would be better than Whiteside when it comes to adding defensive length to our team. (Drummond would probably be the only other guy and he has as many, if not more, question marks than Whiteside)
Perhaps they also think that Tyreke will come into next season as a better shooter and maybe they think that Jimmer is doing the right things in the off-season to better prepare himself for next season to address the shooting needs.
And it's possible they think that from out platoon of SFs, someone is ready to grab the starting position and play well enough to keep it.
Who knows....
That's why it would be great to know what the FO actually thought of the players on the roster. As you mentioned the team needs that Petrie identified at the end of the season have not at all been addressed so far via draft, free-agency, or trade. It could be that maybe they think that the development/progression of their own guys will account for fixing the majority of the issues.
In an ideal world we would resign TWill and then somehow put together an attractive package to bring in a veteran SF, but at this point in time I don't think that is a very realistic scenario, and so I'll be content enough to just sign TWill then work to get everyone on the same page for the start of the new season.
I think we'll have a much better sense of things after Summer League. If both Jimmer and Whiteside shine then it could indicate that the FO is betting that their own talent will be in a position to make a bigger contribution to the team.
If Whiteside looks as lost as ever and Jimmer struggles....then it's probably a sign that we're going to be in for another rocky season unless another move gets made to help address the team's glaring needs.
Perhaps they think that Whiteside is ready for big minutes, and if he is, other than Anthony Davis, I'm not certain anyone in this last draft would be better than Whiteside when it comes to adding defensive length to our team. (Drummond would probably be the only other guy and he has as many, if not more, question marks than Whiteside)
Perhaps they also think that Tyreke will come into next season as a better shooter and maybe they think that Jimmer is doing the right things in the off-season to better prepare himself for next season to address the shooting needs.
And it's possible they think that from out platoon of SFs, someone is ready to grab the starting position and play well enough to keep it.
Who knows....
That's why it would be great to know what the FO actually thought of the players on the roster. As you mentioned the team needs that Petrie identified at the end of the season have not at all been addressed so far via draft, free-agency, or trade. It could be that maybe they think that the development/progression of their own guys will account for fixing the majority of the issues.
In an ideal world we would resign TWill and then somehow put together an attractive package to bring in a veteran SF, but at this point in time I don't think that is a very realistic scenario, and so I'll be content enough to just sign TWill then work to get everyone on the same page for the start of the new season.
I think we'll have a much better sense of things after Summer League. If both Jimmer and Whiteside shine then it could indicate that the FO is betting that their own talent will be in a position to make a bigger contribution to the team.
If Whiteside looks as lost as ever and Jimmer struggles....then it's probably a sign that we're going to be in for another rocky season unless another move gets made to help address the team's glaring needs.
Besides keeping TWilliams, we may get one more new player IF he doesn't cost very much and we can cover most of the cost through trading from our roster. So no big star, not even a little star but maybe an outside shooter.
Even with our roster plus one we will have a new team or we CAN have a new team. Same PG, new SG - Evans, new SF - Outlaw or ?, improved 4 amd 5 ineup with a new threesome to share time - Thompson, Cousins and Robinson.
Our problems could come from who plays behind the starters at 1, 2, and 3. Our best IMO would be Salmons. Thornton, and TWilliams. I don't think we can afford to play Thornton with Jimmer on the second unit. However, I don't believe the team will take minutes away from Fredette yet, unfortunately. This is important because we need a decent back up PG.
So to an earlier poster's question in more specifics - the FO's thinking. Are we to start Evans atg SG? Are we to keep Thornton? With no new SF will they commit to Outlaw? Will they play Fredette in the first eight? Will they play Salmons in the first eight? Will they play TWilliams in the first eight? Will they start Evans at the PG? Most of these questions will not be answered in Las Vegas.
Even with our roster plus one we will have a new team or we CAN have a new team. Same PG, new SG - Evans, new SF - Outlaw or ?, improved 4 amd 5 ineup with a new threesome to share time - Thompson, Cousins and Robinson.
Our problems could come from who plays behind the starters at 1, 2, and 3. Our best IMO would be Salmons. Thornton, and TWilliams. I don't think we can afford to play Thornton with Jimmer on the second unit. However, I don't believe the team will take minutes away from Fredette yet, unfortunately. This is important because we need a decent back up PG.
So to an earlier poster's question in more specifics - the FO's thinking. Are we to start Evans atg SG? Are we to keep Thornton? With no new SF will they commit to Outlaw? Will they play Fredette in the first eight? Will they play Salmons in the first eight? Will they play TWilliams in the first eight? Will they start Evans at the PG? Most of these questions will not be answered in Las Vegas.
Which is all that matters. He can have a 15 foot wingspan if he wants, its how you do, or don't, use it. Short shotblockers are rarely intimidators anyway. More surprise you guys than guys you scare you out of the paint guys. But TRob is neither tall nor a shotblocker so this is a pointless conversation. He doesn't address the need at all.
this guy, on the other hand, has potential as an intimidator:
this guy, on the other hand, has potential as an intimidator:
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Which would be typical of the sort of stupidity we have long engaged in. Just having a guy ON THE ROSTER who has a certain skillset is meaningless. You have to actually have minutes for him. If they don't exist, then you have to clear minutes for him. People outside the main rotation aren't going to impact your fortunes. As it is Jimmer is our 4th guard, at best. Whiteside our 4th big, at best. They can show well in summer league and maybe prove they have NBA futures, but they aren't going to be fixing any of our problems from their strategic locations collecting splinters in their behinds.
First, TRob is definitely not a shot-blocker right now, and I do think that by and large you either have shot-blocking instincts or you don't.
I want to mention that I've been watching a lot more of his Kansas games and wanted to note something that I've been seeing in regards to weak-side shotblocking.
In watching him play, it looks as if he doesn't even attempt to block shots from the weakside even when he has position and an angle to do so. Instead, I'm seeing him position himself on the weakside for a potential defensive rebound.
I'm seeing very little shot-blocking potential from him, and I don't think he'll ever be a shot-blocking force...but I wonder if he has been coached that it's better to position yourself for a defensive rebound rather than lose defensive rebounding position going after a shot-block.
I have no idea, but wanted to throw this out there. So who knows, maybe if he's asked to sacrifice defensive rebounding position in favor of more aggressive shot-blocking, we might see a bit more from him in that department. Don't think he'll ever be elite at it, but if asked, could provide some additional rim protection that we didn't see while he was at Kansas.
I also want to mention that pairing him up with Cousins and JT might leave the team lacking in paint intimidation, but at least it's a physical front-line which can own the boards. If we had just drafted Bargnani then I'd be really frustrated with that front-court, but Robinson brings physicality and athleticism that you want from the PF position.
I want to mention that I've been watching a lot more of his Kansas games and wanted to note something that I've been seeing in regards to weak-side shotblocking.
In watching him play, it looks as if he doesn't even attempt to block shots from the weakside even when he has position and an angle to do so. Instead, I'm seeing him position himself on the weakside for a potential defensive rebound.
I'm seeing very little shot-blocking potential from him, and I don't think he'll ever be a shot-blocking force...but I wonder if he has been coached that it's better to position yourself for a defensive rebound rather than lose defensive rebounding position going after a shot-block.
I have no idea, but wanted to throw this out there. So who knows, maybe if he's asked to sacrifice defensive rebounding position in favor of more aggressive shot-blocking, we might see a bit more from him in that department. Don't think he'll ever be elite at it, but if asked, could provide some additional rim protection that we didn't see while he was at Kansas.
I also want to mention that pairing him up with Cousins and JT might leave the team lacking in paint intimidation, but at least it's a physical front-line which can own the boards. If we had just drafted Bargnani then I'd be really frustrated with that front-court, but Robinson brings physicality and athleticism that you want from the PF position.