Current Team Discussion and Possible Trades

[ParniValjak]

The value isn't minimal, which is the point. Teams don't willingly move down in the draft, especially if you are going to be picking in the lottery. If that swap pick occurs, Vlade would have sold that pick for pennies on the dollar.

As a rule of thumb, you'd want the higher pick vs. the lower pick right?

Not necessarily! Pick number is irrelevant from year to year. One year pick 1 would be more valuable than it would be in another year and it directly depends on quality of prospects available at that pick. Pick 8 last year was worth equivalent of 3 first round picks (Bogdanovic was a pick in the 20s in his draft year). In no way does it represent the value for this year.

Last year's draft was not considered to be overly strong and acording to experts there was a clear drop off after top 8 picks. By extension it implied that the talent level between 9 and the rest of the first round is not great and mostly hit and miss. That's why it was deemed to be worth equivalent of 3 first round picks.

It does not represent the value of pick 8 in this draft. If the draft has greater talent quality and greater depth pick 8 will not hold the same value than it did last year. It will be worth less in that case.

Teams absolutely willingly move down to get the player they want and get other assets or shed salary. We traded down last year to havve more picks in the 1st round because we didn't like what was there for us at 8. Mavs traded down to draft Dirk all those years ago. Teams absolutely willingly trade down. No one is holding a gun to their head to do it.

Where I will agree is that in our case with Philly this year, we don't have much control of how it pans out. We have agreed to it well in advance without knowing where picks lie. If you win the lottery or get a pick significantly lower than theirs or a pick after which there is a significant drop off in talent then it is obviously a bad deal.

However, the deal can only be truly judged after the end result of seeing what players picked at each pick turn out like. Cavs picked up Anthony Bennett with pick 1 so they clearly screwed that pick up.

 

[peacelate]

I haven't looked at the numbers of All-star/quality NBA players produced at each draft slot, but wouldn't you agree that on average the higher pick is better? I think history would corroborate that statement.

If i asked you in the 2018 draft, would you rather have #5 or the #8, what would you say? Hopefully you would say #5 because it is more valuable than #8. The value fluctuates year to year closer to the draft day, but it is not inherently irrelevant.

I'm not saying a moving from 8 to 13 is always worth two first round draft picks, only that the drop shouldn't be overlooked.

 

[The Effort Police]

Huh? Yes I'm comparing Stauskas to Dunn because both were/are struggling in their rookie year. I don't know if you've watched much of the T-Wolves, but Dunn has looked really really bad. Why are you laughing at the comp? I'm genuinely curious.

Both were regarded as lotto picks coming into the draft. Stauskas was 20 yearsold when he was drafted(turning 21 in Oct.), Dunn was 22 yearsold when he was drafted. Dunn was a really questionable shooter too. He had decent %, but it was obvious that he wasn't comfortable with shooting the 3 ball. His shot alone, was really inconsistent (how it left his hand, missing wide, etc). Dunn was a good playmaker, but turnover prone. A big knock of his was his decision making..which may or may not tie into bball IQ. Defense was his biggest and best strength because of his great size and athleticism. However, so far in the NBA, he's struggled in making the big translation. That is why I used Dunn. Stauskas was a damn good prospect coming out off Michigan. This is taking nothing away from Dunn. I just used him because he's another rookie who has been struggling and looks lost on the floor. He has an entire 1/2 season left to improve. Not writing him off by any means.

I guess if you don't like that Dunn comparison, we can use Buddy Hield instead. Before you laugh that off too for whatever strange reason, Stauskas was a better SG prospect than Hield coming out of college.

Again, I find it hard to believe that there wasn't a single team out there in the NBA willing to take on a decent 2-year contract player to get a former lotto player for free. It's not like Stauskas was Jimmer where it looked like he obviously didn't belong(undersized SG that can't play PG with poor shot selection, that's not Stauskas).

I don't get how Stauskas was this great prospect coming out of college all of a sudden. Remember when everyone erupted over the Kings picking him? It was this big joke that the Kings would reach for him at 8.

Compared to Dunn, who was the best point guard prospect in his draft, and Hield, who I saw as high as 3 on some draft boards and lit up college basketball his senior year, there's no comparison. (And I don't even like Hield as a prospect, by the way). Stauskas was a joke of a lottery selection and was trash his rookie year (and now). That's why people don't treat giving him away as losing something of real value.

 

[twslam07]

I don't get how Stauskas was this great prospect coming out of college all of a sudden. Remember when everyone erupted over the Kings picking him? It was this big joke that the Kings would reach for him at 8.

Compared to Dunn, who was the best point guard prospect in his draft, and Hield, who I saw as high as 3 on some draft boards and lit up college basketball his senior year, there's no comparison. (And I don't even like Hield as a prospect, by the way). Stauskas was a joke of a lottery selection and was trash his rookie year (and now). That's why people don't treat giving him away as losing something of real value.

I don't remember that.

He was at #12 on draftexpress & #10 on nbadraft.net. Taking him at #8 was really not as big of a reach as you're making it out to be.

 

[Joshoua]

How do we feel about Reggie Jackson? He's an 18-6 pg defense not that great but he's signed long term and can creat shots way better than aby pg we have. Apparently he might be on the block as Detroit has to max KCP and there games don't mesh. I'd offer Collison, Afflalo, and WCS for Jackson.

Also I wouldn't mind Trading KK for Aminu who can play SF/PF for us more PF. While Portland is desperate for a big especially on a good contract.

 

[King Baller]

I would bet you dollars to donuts that if we offered Philly to trade them Malachi for our 2019 pick back they would laugh at us. If we're lucky then they might, in time, regret that, but that doesn't change the fact that right now that pick is more valuable than Malachi.



"At worst" we could be giving up the #1 pick in the draft to get a Philly pick in the #16 range if we hit the lottery and they continue playing hot and Ben Simmons launches them into the playoffs. It's far too early to write this off as no big deal. We shall see.

As far as the value of Malachi vs the 2019 pick there are no guarantees. But considering Malachi has looked pretty good and will be starting his third season in 2019 it is not a bad bet that he will have more value than the pick.

As for the second pick swap I will grant you it does not look good if Ben Simmons comes back playing near where he was when he went down. If he comes back soon playing that way he could lead Philly to the Playoffs and be a dark horse to give Cleveland a little scare. Philly is 5.5 games out of the #8 seed and it is not inconceivable they make a run and take it. If that happens and the Kings tank I would have to agree with you that the pick swap would suck. If that happens Hinkie should get some consideration for GM of the year

 

[King Baller]

How do we feel about Reggie Jackson? He's an 18-6 pg defense not that great but he's signed long term and can creat shots way better than aby pg we have. Apparently he might be on the block as Detroit has to max KCP and there games don't mesh. I'd offer Collison, Afflalo, and WCS for Jackson.

Also I wouldn't mind Trading KK for Aminu who can play SF/PF for us more PF. While Portland is desperate for a big especially on a good contract.

Well at this point the Kings have no PG signed beyond this season. So if a move is made I would like to see that addressed. RJ would be a nice add IMO.

 

[dude12]

How do we feel about Reggie Jackson? He's an 18-6 pg defense not that great but he's signed long term and can creat shots way better than aby pg we have. Apparently he might be on the block as Detroit has to max KCP and there games don't mesh. I'd offer Collison, Afflalo, and WCS for Jackson.

Also I wouldn't mind Trading KK for Aminu who can play SF/PF for us more PF. While Portland is desperate for a big especially on a good contract.

Is he really available? SVG went on record and said RJ wouldn't be traded....but then again, if the right deal comes around....

 

[Joshoua]

Is he really available? SVG went on record and said RJ wouldn't be traded....but then again, if the right deal comes around....

I wasn't basing it off rumors but the next coach to come out and say said player is being shopped will be the first.

 

[Telemachus]

I don't remember that.

He was at #12 on draftexpress & #10 on nbadraft.net. Taking him at #8 was really not as big of a reach as you're making it out to be.

Agreed. However, most put his ceiling as a possible future starting SG. Dunn's ceiling was a possible future all-star PG.

 

[dude12]

I wasn't basing it off rumors but the next coach to come out and say said player is being shopped will be the first.

Good point

 

[206Fan]

I don't get how Stauskas was this great prospect coming out of college all of a sudden. Remember when everyone erupted over the Kings picking him? It was this big joke that the Kings would reach for him at 8.

Compared to Dunn, who was the best point guard prospect in his draft, and Hield, who I saw as high as 3 on some draft boards and lit up college basketball his senior year, there's no comparison. (And I don't even like Hield as a prospect, by the way). Stauskas was a joke of a lottery selection and was trash his rookie year (and now). That's why people don't treat giving him away as losing something of real value.

I didn't erupt when the Kings picked him at 8.

Stauskas was a great prospect coming out of college. If you don't think so, I'd like to know why.

Stauskas won Big Ten POY award. Stauskas was an amazingly confident player who rose up to the occasion when no one knew who would take over Michigan after the departure of Trey Burke. Stauskas was a really vocal leader on the floor. He improved tremendously in his sophomore year and legitimately became a ball handler. Stauskas had the ability to play off the ball, or with the ball. He excelled in 3pt shooting, and shot 44.2% from 3pt. On ball, Stauskas was able to exploit teams in PnR, he had a good understanding of it. His ball handling was good for a SG. He looked extremely comfortable running Michigan's offense as a primary ball handler when he needed to. Stauskas was solid at attacking the rim and finishing. His ball handling and decent amount of moves helped him get to the rim. He was really good at drawing contact and getting to the foul line. Even though Stauskas was able to play good as an off-ball player, he was good at creating his own shots. On top of showing a lot of scoring moves with an elite jumpshot, Stauskas was a had a high bball IQ, and was a really good passer. Stauskas has solid athleticism. The biggest knock on him was his lack of lateral quickness. He did not have quick foot-speed and this could became a major problem against NBA offenses. There's nothing wrong with his size and frame. 6'6 with a 6'7.5 wingspan at 207lbs (draft combine, official numbers). Look at his raw stats: 17.5pts 3.3asts 2.9rebs on 47/42/82.

So you have a 6'6 SG who can shoot the 3pt, handle the ball, pass the ball, has exceptionally high ball IQ, and is a proven leader. Only real concerns were his lateral quickness and footspeed.

Stauskas was a VERY good prospect coming out of college. I was shocked when I saw how much Stauskas struggled, but how much do you think that was on his mental level because of the Kings? Guy gets drafted into the Kings. 20 games into the season, and they fire their HC. They hire the assistant coach. 20 games after that, they fire the assistant coach, and hire George Karl. THEN, they fire the guy who drafted him, and hired a new GM. There was big rumblings of a lot of tension in the locker room, but now we know, those rumblings were actually true. How do you think a dysfunctional organization affected a 20/21yearold rookie SG? He played under 3 headcoaches in 1 year, went through 2 GMs, and battled through a crap-ton of internal problems between players, coaches, and FO.

and we wonder why the Kings can't develop players.

Stauskas wasn't "a joke of a lottery selection." That's straight-up insulting. He was a legitimately good NBA prospect. Whether or not he panned on, has no barring on that. I don't want to sound narrow-minded, but for you to say that he was a pee-poor prospect makes me think you didn't watch enough of him at college, or read too much of what others wrote. There's a gigantic reason why some considered 2014 to be the best lotto prospects in a long time.

 

[dude12]

I didn't like the Stauskas pick and wanted Payton......for one, PG is a premium position and at that point in the draft, with no one standing out, would have taken the PG with good size. Also didn't like Stauskas body and foot speed was just ok. He looked physically weak. Foot speed was going to hamper him in the NBA. Those are legitimate concerns irregardless of him being able to shoot the ball. Thought he was going to be a defensive liability. And of course, hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it seems after drafting 2 SGs in a rowin Ben and Nik, may be easier to find a reliable shooter who is already proven. I thought the Stauskas pick was a reach.

 

[bajaden]

I didn't like the Stauskas pick and wanted Payton......for one, PG is a premium position and at that point in the draft, with no one standing out, would have taken the PG with good size. Also didn't like Stauskas body and foot speed was just ok. He looked physically weak. Foot speed was going to hamper him in the NBA. Those are legitimate concerns irregardless of him being able to shoot the ball. Thought he was going to be a defensive liability. And of course, hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it seems after drafting 2 SGs in a rowin Ben and Nik, may be easier to find a reliable shooter who is already proven. I thought the Stauskas pick was a reach.

Well, you can argue for a different player, but Stauskas wasn't a reach at eight. It depended on what you were looking for. If your looking for a a shooter, and from statements that were made at the time, that appears to be what the Kings were looking for, then the two best shooters left were Doug McDermott and Nik Stauskas. Stauskas played SG, and we did have a need for shooting from the position. People weren't sure what position McDermott played, PF or SF. There was one other shooter that I liked, who was a bit undersized, and who would have been a reach, and that was Gary Harris, who was also a very good defender.

The other two players I had left, that I felt would be good picks at eight were Elfrid Payton, and Zach Lavine.. I had questions about both players, and felt that of those two, the one with the best chance of being a star was Lavine. But only if he could acquire some self discipline. Dude shot the ball from anywhere on the floor with no regard for the shot clock. Drove me nuts. But, he was an elite athlete, and he could shoot the ball. Plus, I didn't think he was a PG. Which left other questions. By the way, don't know if you've watched any Philly games, but Nik has turned into a pretty good defender.

 

[dude12]

Well, you can argue for a different player, but Stauskas wasn't a reach at eight. It depended on what you were looking for. If your looking for a a shooter, and from statements that were made at the time, that appears to be what the Kings were looking for, then the two best shooters left were Doug McDermott and Nik Stauskas. Stauskas played SG, and we did have a need for shooting from the position. People weren't sure what position McDermott played, PF or SF. There was one other shooter that I liked, who was a bit undersized, and who would have been a reach, and that was Gary Harris, who was also a very good defender.

The other two players I had left, that I felt would be good picks at eight were Elfrid Payton, and Zach Lavine.. I had questions about both players, and felt that of those two, the one with the best chance of being a star was Lavine. But only if he could acquire some self discipline. Dude shot the ball from anywhere on the floor with no regard for the shot clock. Drove me nuts. But, he was an elite athlete, and he could shoot the ball. Plus, I didn't think he was a PG. Which left other questions. By the way, don't know if you've watched any Philly games, but Nik has turned into a pretty good defender.

We are not on the same page in regards to Nik.....just read an article with quotes from his coach that he needs to defend better. His defensive effort comes and goes with how he's shooting. But anyway, we have never agreed on Stauskas.

 

[VF21]

Closed in favor of the new thread that doesn't have about a bazillion posts.