Current Team Discussion and Possible Trades

[John Galt]

On each item you point out what you have done? Try not to make your choices using revisionist history, but what you knew in each time period.

Philly trade - would you have done it?
Who would you have drafted 2014/2015?
Who would you have drafted 2015/2016?
Free agents - who would you have signed?

Philly trade - would you have done it? No. I would have traded Landry & Stauskas for two future first rounders and they'd have liked it.
Who would you have drafted 2014/2015? I would have traded up for Wiggins and they'd have liked it.
Who would you have drafted 2015/2016? I would have traded up for KAT and they'd have liked it.
Free agents - who would you have signed? I would have signed Ryan Anderson but only for $12M/yr and also Kevin Durant

 

[King Baller]

Philly trade - would you have done it? No. I would have traded Landry & Stauskas for two future first rounders and they'd have liked it.
Who would you have drafted 2014/2015? I would have traded up for Wiggins and they'd have liked it.
Who would you have drafted 2015/2016? I would have traded up for KAT and they'd have liked it.
Free agents - who would you have signed? I would have signed Ryan Anderson but only for $12M/yr and also Kevin Durant

Now thats what I'm talking about! John Galt for Kings GM!

 

[John Galt]

Now thats what I'm talking about! John Galt for Kings GM!

And I would absolutely kill it... if not for guys like Scott Layden and Sam Hinkie and all the greedy agents.

 

[Kingster]

We just need to get an All Star talent for basically nothing. Like an Isaiah Thomas trade except in reverse.

 

[206Fan]

On each item you point out what you have done? Try not to make your choices using revisionist history, but what you knew in each time period.

Philly trade - would you have done it?
Who would you have drafted 2014/2015?
Who would you have drafted 2015/2016?
Free agents - who would you have signed?

I like playing arm-chair GM, but obviously what I would've done/wanted is really irrelevant to what actually happened.

1. Philly trade, no I wouldn't have done it. Look at why Vlade originally did that trade. He traded Stauskas, pick swaps in 2016, 2017, and a draft pick in 2018/19 all just to trade for cap space, and try to max out a 28yearold Wesley Matthews coming off a serious Achilles injury.

2. At the time of the draft, I preferred Mudiay over Willie. I don't know if Mudiay would be as bad as he is now, or maybe better, but my guy was Mudiay.
I saw WCS as a career role-player at most.

3. In 2016, I wouldn't mind if we stayed there and drafted Marquese Chriss. I'd do the trade-down. At 13, would've drafted Baldwin IV. Knowing the Kings drafted Papa at 13, for 22, I would've drafted Timothe Luwawu. Knowing that the Kings drafted Papa at 13, Richardson at 22, for 28, I would've drafted Dejounte Murray.
If you want my raw picks: it would've been Baldwin IV, Zizic, and Murray. If I knew how the draft would've gone

4. I would've went after Fournier for 20mill/year. Would've went after Jon Leuer for 10mill/year.

 

[King Baller]

I like playing arm-chair GM, but obviously what I would've done/wanted is really irrelevant to what actually happened.

1. Philly trade, no I wouldn't have done it. Look at why Vlade originally did that trade. He traded Stauskas, pick swaps in 2016, 2017, and a draft pick in 2018/19 all just to trade for cap space, and try to max out a 28yearold Wesley Matthews coming off a serious Achilles injury.

2. At the time of the draft, I preferred Mudiay over Willie. I don't know if Mudiay would be as bad as he is now, or maybe better, but my guy was Mudiay.
I saw WCS as a career role-player at most.

3. In 2016, I wouldn't mind if we stayed there and drafted Marquese Chriss. I'd do the trade-down. At 13, would've drafted Baldwin IV. Knowing the Kings drafted Papa at 13, for 22, I would've drafted Timothe Luwawu. Knowing that the Kings drafted Papa at 13, Richardson at 22, for 28, I would've drafted Dejounte Murray.
If you want my raw picks: it would've been Baldwin IV, Zizic, and Murray. If I knew how the draft would've gone

4. I would've went after Fournier for 20mill/year. Would've went after Jon Leuer for 10mill/year.

You would not have had pick 22 this year

 

[206Fan]

You would not have had pick 22 this year

Why not? The Kings had almost 9million in cap space in the 2015 off-season. It means that the Kings could've perfectly signed Marco without giving up Stauskas+2016 swap+2017 swap+2019 1st rounder. I could in theory, still trade Marco for #22. So yes, I would've had that pick 22.

I feel like Vlade had a dumb impatient approach about clearing cap space. You can't tell me that there wasn't a single team out there willing to take on JT's or Landry's contact if we were to offer the former #8 pick Nik Stauskas for free? Without giving up anything? You can't tell me that the Sixers wouldn't have just accepted JT+Stauskas for cap space......... all they would've had to do was keep JT for 1 year, then waive him in 2016/17(this year) because he's only guaranteed 2million. It's not like the Sixers were desperate for cap space! They were tanking!

Again, probably the dumbest trade since the Nets-Celtics trade. Awful awful trade. 99% of the NBA would agree with this. I just find it hard to read when Kings fans try to justify the trade as "fair", when we basically gave up on a rookie player and a future 1st round pick all for cap space! We barely reached 30 games!

 

[King Baller]

Why not? The Kings had almost 9million in cap space in the 2015 off-season. It means that the Kings could've perfectly signed Marco without giving up Stauskas+2016 swap+2017 swap+2019 1st rounder. I could in theory, still trade Marco for #22. So yes, I would've had that pick 22.

I feel like Vlade had a dumb impatient approach about clearing cap space. You can't tell me that there wasn't a single team out there willing to take on JT's or Landry's contact if we were to offer the former #8 pick Nik Stauskas for free? Without giving up anything? You can't tell me that the Sixers wouldn't have just accepted JT+Stauskas for cap space......... all they would've had to do was keep JT for 1 year, then waive him in 2016/17(this year) because he's only guaranteed 2million. It's not like the Sixers were desperate for cap space! They were tanking!

Again, probably the dumbest trade since the Nets-Celtics trade. Awful awful trade. 99% of the NBA would agree with this. I just find it hard to read when Kings fans try to justify the trade as "fair", when we basically gave up on a rookie player and a future 1st round pick all for cap space! We barely reached 30 games!

206Fan there wasn't a single team out there willing to take on JT's or Landry's contact if we were to offer the former #8 pick Nik Stauskas for free. Otherwise the deal would have been done.

 

[206Fan]

206Fan there wasn't a single team out there willing to take on JT's or Landry's contact if we were to offer the former #8 pick Nik Stauskas for free. Otherwise the deal would have been done.

Vlade shipped out both Landry and JT in one deal. I'm saying what if it was just one of those guys along with Stauskas? Again, I feel like it was a really poor panic deal by Vlade. He wanted to get rid of 2 birds with 1 stone, but he didn't need to do that.

Ok, I'll compare it to a current struggling rookie. You're telling me that there isn't a single team out there willing to take on Pekovic's contract to get Dunn for free? Not 1 team out there? Not even a struggling Brooklyn Nets that don't need to worry about their cap space?

We could've also easily used stretch provision on Landry's contract. It would only cost us 2.6million/year for the next 5. That's chump change compared to this new cap which is projected to be somewhere around 100million.

 

[King Baller]

Vlade shipped out both Landry and JT in one deal. I'm saying what if it was just one of those guys along with Stauskas? Again, I feel like it was a really poor panic deal by Vlade. He wanted to get rid of 2 birds with 1 stone, but he didn't need to do that.

Ok, I'll compare it to a current struggling rookie. You're telling me that there isn't a single team out there willing to take on Pekovic's contract to get Dunn for free? Not 1 team out there? Not even a struggling Brooklyn Nets that don't need to worry about their cap space?

We could've also easily used stretch provision on Landry's contract. It would only cost us 2.6million/year for the next 5. That's chump change compared to this new cap which is projected to be somewhere around 100million.

Dunn??????? Are you comparing Dunn to Sauce? You have got to be kidding me

JT and Landry had way negative value at that point in time. Vlade has already recouped the 1st round pick with the Marco trade. The first pick swap was nada, nothing, zip. The second pick swap could cost the Kings a couple of spots but we will have to wait and see. As far as the loss of Sauce, I liked the Kid but he is going to take a few more years if at all to be a difference maker.

So yes I am not worried about that Philly trade at all

Dunn? Are you joking?

 

[bajaden]

I like playing arm-chair GM, but obviously what I would've done/wanted is really irrelevant to what actually happened.

1. Philly trade, no I wouldn't have done it. Look at why Vlade originally did that trade. He traded Stauskas, pick swaps in 2016, 2017, and a draft pick in 2018/19 all just to trade for cap space, and try to max out a 28yearold Wesley Matthews coming off a serious Achilles injury.

2. At the time of the draft, I preferred Mudiay over Willie. I don't know if Mudiay would be as bad as he is now, or maybe better, but my guy was Mudiay.
I saw WCS as a career role-player at most.

3. In 2016, I wouldn't mind if we stayed there and drafted Marquese Chriss. I'd do the trade-down. At 13, would've drafted Baldwin IV. Knowing the Kings drafted Papa at 13, for 22, I would've drafted Timothe Luwawu. Knowing that the Kings drafted Papa at 13, Richardson at 22, for 28, I would've drafted Dejounte Murray.
If you want my raw picks: it would've been Baldwin IV, Zizic, and Murray. If I knew how the draft would've gone

4. I would've went after Fournier for 20mill/year. Would've went after Jon Leuer for 10mill/year.

Golden rule number one that I've learned over the years. Be very wary of PG's coming out of college that can't shoot the ball. I'm not talking about form, but PG's that just don't appear to have any feel for shooting. Even when they go in, they don't stay in. That tells me the basketball god's have spoken. Some of that is in jest, but seriously, in today's NBA, your perimeter players have to be able to shoot. At least good enough where you have to guard them.

When I watched Mudiay shoot in summer league, he looked like he had no feel for shooting at all. Not as bad as Marcus Smart, so maybe there's still hope for him. At least he seems to know he's a poor shooter. Smart doesn't, which makes him worse.

 

[steelevt]

We just need to get an All Star talent for basically nothing. Like an Isaiah Thomas trade except in reverse.

so all we have to do is wait for pda to get another gm job and be the first to call him

 

[SLAB]

According to Rotoworld, the Bulls are actively shopping Mirotic. If a deal could be reached I would love him as our stretch 4.

 

[steelevt]

Vlade is a dippoopoo. That Philly trade is horrible right now.

When will it be ok to call for his head? None of his moves since coming in at GM have netted positive results. I know it's only been 1 and 1/2 years as his tenure at GM, but in that short time span, the guy already destroyed 1 future asset in 2018/2019, and maybe another one this year.

I don't understand what he was trying to accomplish with our draft. I also don't understand what he was trying to accomplish with our FA. Somehow, the Kings are constantly talking about playoffs. Maybe Vlade should've rethought that when he drafted 3 guys who's only impact this season has been taking up 3 roster spots. I don't know how far we'll be able to get into playoff talks when there's a legitimate argument that Matt Barnes is our 3rd best player, maybe Temple? No disrespect to those guys, but they are at best, scrappy NBA bench players.

This team is not very good.

I wouldnt say none. Vlade has made some alot of bad moves, but not all were bad. Just of the top of my head, temple was a good pick up, and kosta is a serviceable big. I want to say the WCS pick was well received by most as a solid pick. Even though he might have seemed to regress this year, he still had a solid rookie year. It's just that philly trade that i really hate. It might be as bad as the IT trade pda made in the long term. Not saying we lost an allstar, but it will set us back for years and that is a big negative impact

 

[twslam07]

Golden rule number one that I've learned over the years. Be very wary of PG's coming out of college that can't shoot the ball. I'm not talking about form, but PG's that just don't appear to have any feel for shooting. Even when they go in, they don't stay in. That tells me the basketball god's have spoken. Some of that is in jest, but seriously, in today's NBA, your perimeter players have to be able to shoot. At least good enough where you have to guard them.

When I watched Mudiay shoot in summer league, he looked like he had no feel for shooting at all. Not as bad as Marcus Smart, so maybe there's still hope for him. At least he seems to know he's a poor shooter. Smart doesn't, which makes him worse.

With that in mind, what's your take on De'aaron Fox who is shooting a blistering 13.5% from three?

 

[KingsFan80]

206Fan there wasn't a single team out there willing to take on JT's or Landry's contact if we were to offer the former #8 pick Nik Stauskas for free. Otherwise the deal would have been done.

Then keep the contracts until they expire. All of that mess wasn't worth it to sign Kosta, Rondo and Belinilli. Vlade took a chance, it didn't work out and now it looks bad. if PDA made that same move he would be ripped and screamed at it. BTW 206Fan you are spot on

 

[KingsFan80]

I like playing arm-chair GM, but obviously what I would've done/wanted is really irrelevant to what actually happened.

1. Philly trade, no I wouldn't have done it. Look at why Vlade originally did that trade. He traded Stauskas, pick swaps in 2016, 2017, and a draft pick in 2018/19 all just to trade for cap space, and try to max out a 28yearold Wesley Matthews coming off a serious Achilles injury.

2. At the time of the draft, I preferred Mudiay over Willie. I don't know if Mudiay would be as bad as he is now, or maybe better, but my guy was Mudiay.
I saw WCS as a career role-player at most.

3. In 2016, I wouldn't mind if we stayed there and drafted Marquese Chriss. I'd do the trade-down. At 13, would've drafted Baldwin IV. Knowing the Kings drafted Papa at 13, for 22, I would've drafted Timothe Luwawu. Knowing that the Kings drafted Papa at 13, Richardson at 22, for 28, I would've drafted Dejounte Murray.
If you want my raw picks: it would've been Baldwin IV, Zizic, and Murray. If I knew how the draft would've gone

4. I would've went after Fournier for 20mill/year. Would've went after Jon Leuer for 10mill/year.

All of this is spot on. We are now two years since the last GM change and this team is no better off. Still stupid decisions and not trading Rudy leaves egg on the FO face yet again, It is a disaster. We are going to have another losing seaosn then lose our pick to swap wiht the 76ers. If we at least had to two young stud rookies it would be exciting to watch.

 

[206Fan]

Dunn??????? Are you comparing Dunn to Sauce? You have got to be kidding me

JT and Landry had way negative value at that point in time. Vlade has already recouped the 1st round pick with the Marco trade. The first pick swap was nada, nothing, zip. The second pick swap could cost the Kings a couple of spots but we will have to wait and see. As far as the loss of Sauce, I liked the Kid but he is going to take a few more years if at all to be a difference maker.

So yes I am not worried about that Philly trade at all

Dunn? Are you joking?

Huh? Yes I'm comparing Stauskas to Dunn because both were/are struggling in their rookie year. I don't know if you've watched much of the T-Wolves, but Dunn has looked really really bad. Why are you laughing at the comp? I'm genuinely curious.

Both were regarded as lotto picks coming into the draft. Stauskas was 20 yearsold when he was drafted(turning 21 in Oct.), Dunn was 22 yearsold when he was drafted. Dunn was a really questionable shooter too. He had decent %, but it was obvious that he wasn't comfortable with shooting the 3 ball. His shot alone, was really inconsistent (how it left his hand, missing wide, etc). Dunn was a good playmaker, but turnover prone. A big knock of his was his decision making..which may or may not tie into bball IQ. Defense was his biggest and best strength because of his great size and athleticism. However, so far in the NBA, he's struggled in making the big translation. That is why I used Dunn. Stauskas was a damn good prospect coming out off Michigan. This is taking nothing away from Dunn. I just used him because he's another rookie who has been struggling and looks lost on the floor. He has an entire 1/2 season left to improve. Not writing him off by any means.

I guess if you don't like that Dunn comparison, we can use Buddy Hield instead. Before you laugh that off too for whatever strange reason, Stauskas was a better SG prospect than Hield coming out of college.

Again, I find it hard to believe that there wasn't a single team out there in the NBA willing to take on a decent 2-year contract player to get a former lotto player for free. It's not like Stauskas was Jimmer where it looked like he obviously didn't belong(undersized SG that can't play PG with poor shot selection, that's not Stauskas).

 

[bajaden]

With that in mind, what's your take on De'aaron Fox who is shooting a blistering 13.5% from three?

Tough call on Fox. He takes a lot of off balance shots and shots off the dribble. In other words, he take a lot of what I would call bad shots, or Steff Curry shots and he's not Curry. When set and squared up, he's a better shooter. So I don't think in his case he's a lost cause. He brings so much athleticism to the table and the ability to defend, that he's tantalizing. Lets put it this way, he's not my first choice. I have several PG's ahead of him on my list. I think his running mate Monk might be able to convert to PG. but then he's going to go in the top 5 or 6. I expect Fox to go somewhere between 8 and 14.

 

[King Baller]

Again, I find it hard to believe that there wasn't a single team out there in the NBA willing to take on a decent 2-year contract player to get a former lotto player for free. It's not like Stauskas was Jimmer where it looked like he obviously didn't belong(undersized SG that can't play PG with poor shot selection, that's not Stauskas).

Sauce was a shooter that could not shoot, not much value there. He was also over powered often defending his position. Do you think Vlade did not try to move those guys to other teams? That he is so daft that his thought process was.....doh.....Hinkie made an offer.....doh....OK. Because I do not believe that. I suspect Vlade shopped around and took the best deal he was offered.

I still for the life of me wish someone would list the assets we lost in that trade that "set us back years"???
1-
2-
3-
4-
etc.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Sauce was a shooter that could not shoot, not much value there. He was also over powered often defending his position. Do you think Vlade did not try to move those guys to other teams? That he is so daft that his thought process was.....doh.....Hinkie made an offer.....doh....OK. Because I do not believe that. I suspect Vlade shopped around and took the best deal he was offered.

I still for the life of me wish someone would list the assets we lost in that trade that "set us back years"???
1- Our 2019 draft pick, no matter how good it is
2- Potentially a very good draft pick this year (still TBD)
3-
4-
etc.

Given that we have a very, very poor record of attracting quality free agents, we can expect that our two ways to actually get some good players around Boogie are trades and the draft. We may have damaged our draft position this year - it's too early to tell - and we won't have a draft pick in the 2019 draft unless we trade for one.

Keep in mind that we didn't really *get* very much for that trade, either.
1 - Rondo (gone)
2 - Koufos (or whatever we trade him for)
3 - Malachi via a terrible year of Belinelli

That trade was *supposed* to get us the cap space to sign the players that were going to get us into the playoffs. Didn't work out that way. So we've lost a draft pick that will probably be better than the #22 that we got Malachi with, and we've potentially lost a very good pick this year - possibly a pick that could have netted us Fultz or Ball (and watch out for the fireworks that will be thrown around here if THAT happens).

So has that trade "set us back years"? Not yet, it hasn't. But there's a lot of time for that to happen yet.

 

[twslam07]

Sauce was a shooter that could not shoot, not much value there. He was also over powered often defending his position. Do you think Vlade did not try to move those guys to other teams? That he is so daft that his thought process was.....doh.....Hinkie made an offer.....doh....OK. Because I do not believe that. I suspect Vlade shopped around and took the best deal he was offered.

I still for the life of me wish someone would list the assets we lost in that trade that "set us back years"???
1-
2-
3-
4-
etc.

Just because it was the "best" deal he could get, it does not make it a "good" deal. Feeling like you must make a deal no matter what is going to get you into trouble as a GM.

As for you asset question, Capt. has summarized it well, but I would also add that it limits the paths we can take as a team. If the team wanted to blow it all up, this trade hurts us considering the swaps & unprotected pick.

 

[White_Chocolate]

According to Rotoworld, the Bulls are actively shopping Mirotic. If a deal could be reached I would love him as our stretch 4.

You know Vlade would be all about that

 

[King Baller]

Given that we have a very, very poor record of attracting quality free agents, we can expect that our two ways to actually get some good players around Boogie are trades and the draft. We may have damaged our draft position this year - it's too early to tell - and we won't have a draft pick in the 2019 draft unless we trade for one.

Keep in mind that we didn't really *get* very much for that trade, either.
1 - Rondo (gone)
2 - Koufos (or whatever we trade him for)
3 - Malachi via a terrible year of Belinelli

That trade was *supposed* to get us the cap space to sign the players that were going to get us into the playoffs. Didn't work out that way. So we've lost a draft pick that will probably be better than the #22 that we got Malachi with, and we've potentially lost a very good pick this year - possibly a pick that could have netted us Fultz or Ball (and watch out for the fireworks that will be thrown around here if THAT happens).

So has that trade "set us back years"? Not yet, it hasn't. But there's a lot of time for that to happen yet.

So the 2019 pick out = Marco traded for the 22nd pick this year which became Malachi who will be starting his 3rd season in 2019
1st pick swap = nothing lost
2nd pick swap = remains to be seen but at worst a couple of spots in this years draft
Sauce is gone = Koufos is here on a good contract

I don't see the negative in the Philly trade. For every asset gone there is an asset returned as I have noted.

 

[CyKings]

Vlade is a dippoopoo. That Philly trade is horrible right now.

When will it be ok to call for his head? None of his moves since coming in at GM have netted positive results. I know it's only been 1 and 1/2 years as his tenure at GM, but in that short time span, the guy already destroyed 1 future asset in 2018/2019, and maybe another one this year.

I don't understand what he was trying to accomplish with our draft. I also don't understand what he was trying to accomplish with our FA. Somehow, the Kings are constantly talking about playoffs. Maybe Vlade should've rethought that when he drafted 3 guys who's only impact this season has been taking up 3 roster spots. I don't know how far we'll be able to get into playoff talks when there's a legitimate argument that Matt Barnes is our 3rd best player, maybe Temple? No disrespect to those guys, but they are at best, scrappy NBA bench players.

This team is not very good.

his trade of Belinelli for a 1st rounder was a good one. I also like the idea of giving vets short term deals. Biggest criticism is drafting for me. WCS looks like a bust as of now.

 

[kingsboi]

his trade of Belinelli for a 1st rounder was a good one. I also like the idea of giving vets short term deals. Biggest criticism is drafting for me. WCS looks like a bust as of now.

Just because he looks like one in his second season, doesn't necessarily mean he will be one in the next few years. The fans and the front office especially, need to have more patience when it comes to keeping youth and developing them to fit their culture and roles.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

So the 2019 pick out = Marco traded for the 22nd pick this year which became Malachi who will be starting his 3rd season in 2019

I would bet you dollars to donuts that if we offered Philly to trade them Malachi for our 2019 pick back they would laugh at us. If we're lucky then they might, in time, regret that, but that doesn't change the fact that right now that pick is more valuable than Malachi.

2nd pick swap = remains to be seen but at worst a couple of spots in this years draft

"At worst" we could be giving up the #1 pick in the draft to get a Philly pick in the #16 range if we hit the lottery and they continue playing hot and Ben Simmons launches them into the playoffs. It's far too early to write this off as no big deal. We shall see.

 

[peacelate]

Just moving down a couple of slots in the draft is a big jump in terms of talent. The Kings traded down from 8 to 13 and got 2 first round picks from the Suns. It's quite a leap in terms of talent and what you can if you wanted to trade that pick.

 

[ParniValjak]

Just moving down a couple of slots in the draft is a big jump in terms of talent. The Kings traded down from 8 to 13 and got 2 first round picks from the Suns. It's quite a leap in terms of talent and what you can if you wanted to trade that pick.

That's not quite true. It is completely dependant on what the talent level and depth of the draft pool is. The value varies from year to year but people just look at the numbers and call it so..

 

[peacelate]

That's not quite true. It is completely dependant on what the talent level and depth of the draft pool is. The value varies from year to year but people just look at the numbers and call it so..

The value isn't minimal, which is the point. Teams don't willingly move down in the draft, especially if you are going to be picking in the lottery. If that swap pick occurs, Vlade would have sold that pick for pennies on the dollar.

As a rule of thumb, you'd want the higher pick vs. the lower pick right?