upinsmoke
All-Star
True. The question is what is Vlade looking for in a pg? All signs point towards him letting Collison take the keys. I would take Tyreke & T. Douglas for Rudy just to solidify our backcourt.
Current Team Discussion and Possible Trades
- Thread starter macadocious
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True. The question is what is Vlade looking for in a pg? All signs point towards him letting Collison take the keys. I would take Tyreke & T. Douglas for Rudy just to solidify our backcourt.
That would be the other issue. You wouldn't trade for Bradley and then not start him. First, he's just way better than Afflalo, probably on both ends. Dude just has far too much pedigree as being one of the premier defensive players in the league to waste that on the bench. He actually took some solid strides offensively too, after being mostly a negative for most of his career (15 PPG, 53% TS, 36% 3pt)
You'd also have to believe he could handle 10-15 PG minutes a game like you said, otherwise we'd be wasting most of the wing depth already on the team. Which I think could work out fine with Afflalo, who is capable of operating with the ball in his hands. But
????? || Collison
Bradley || Afflalo || Temple
Casspi || Barnes || Temple
WCS || Tolliver || Skal
Cousins || Papa
I buy the hell out of that support cast for Cousins. Shooters, defenders, versatility, passing guys who play hard and are willing to play off-ball. Get a Rubio/Reke/Bledsoe in there at PG, and I see a roster that would have a great shot at winning 50 games. But that holds true with or without a Bradley trade. We need a deal for a difference-making PG to have a real shot at being a playoff team next season. Otherwise I think we're headed for a good improvement, (40-44 wins), but on the outside looking in.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Worth noting that Afflalo threw a major fit when he was removed from the starting lineup by Rambis last year. Actually one of the reasons his defensive numbers look the way they do.
Well, he can suck it (to put it nicely) if we get Bradley, who I'd want on the floor for 35+ minutes every night anyway. You don't limit the far superior player to keep a vet who's very quickly heading down the hill of his career on a 1 year deal happy as a clam.
I do want to make a case for Rubio, who basically is young Rondo reincarnate. Defense, rebounding, fantastic playmaking. He got lost in the shuffle last season with Wiggins/KAT and the team flat out being bad, but he low-key had a breakout year and basically showed us why he was so highly touted as a prospect and playmaker. Couple numbers
#2 PG in DRPM, #56 overall in NBA (really shows how valuable bigs are defensively if the 2nd PG rated is this low on the list)
#12 PG in ORPM, #27 overall in NBA ( This sticks out completely as a non-scorer. Shows his impact on playmaking and ability to get to the line)
52% TS last season. Which is really surprising to see when you see his 37% FG and 32% 3pt, but his FT rate really carries his scoring efficiency and average (50% ft rate)
Offense:
Offensive Rating
On court- 109.2
Off court- 103.3
Difference- +5.9
eFG%
On court- 50.4%
Off court- 49%
Ast%
On court- 65.3%
Off court- 56.7%
Defense:
Defensive Rating-
On court- 109.1
Off court- 111.4
Difference- -2.3
Opponent eFG%
On court- 51.6%
Off court- 53.5%
We're basically looking at a Cuz-esq impact that Rubio had with the Wolves last season. They flat out fell apart when he was on the floor. A lot of that might be similar to Cuz in that their replacement for him was atrocious, but there's no doubt of Rubio's tremendous impact on both ends. I'll look for it, but one of my writer buddies had a write-up of how much better Rubio made his teammates (hint: pretty much everyone by a wide margin) as well. Also signed for 3 more years on a very nice contract.
#2 PG in DRPM, #56 overall in NBA (really shows how valuable bigs are defensively if the 2nd PG rated is this low on the list)
#12 PG in ORPM, #27 overall in NBA ( This sticks out completely as a non-scorer. Shows his impact on playmaking and ability to get to the line)
52% TS last season. Which is really surprising to see when you see his 37% FG and 32% 3pt, but his FT rate really carries his scoring efficiency and average (50% ft rate)
Offense:
Offensive Rating
On court- 109.2
Off court- 103.3
Difference- +5.9
eFG%
On court- 50.4%
Off court- 49%
Ast%
On court- 65.3%
Off court- 56.7%
Defense:
Defensive Rating-
On court- 109.1
Off court- 111.4
Difference- -2.3
Opponent eFG%
On court- 51.6%
Off court- 53.5%
We're basically looking at a Cuz-esq impact that Rubio had with the Wolves last season. They flat out fell apart when he was on the floor. A lot of that might be similar to Cuz in that their replacement for him was atrocious, but there's no doubt of Rubio's tremendous impact on both ends. I'll look for it, but one of my writer buddies had a write-up of how much better Rubio made his teammates (hint: pretty much everyone by a wide margin) as well. Also signed for 3 more years on a very nice contract.
I feel like Afflalo still wasn't very good under D-Fish either. His defensive decline started bit before Orlando. I'm still not sure why he has a reputation of being a good defender. Must be the Rondo effect.
If we somehow get Bradley, I'd trade Afflalo if he didn't accept his role on the bench. Bradley is miles ahead of Afflalo on defense, and he fits much better alongside Cousins.
King Baller
All-Star
I like Bradley but with the vacant PG spot and good depth at Big Guard I just don't see Vlade going in that direction. Unless Ainge decides he wants Rudy real bad and offers up a sweet deal including Bradley (Who IMO prior to Horford was the C's best player).
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Can't stand Rubio. You need somebody who can score for this team. The non-versatile assist guy is a thing of the past. Just prehistoric. It's so bad in the back court right now that the Kings might desperately miss Curry of all guys. Divac better trade Gay for a legit outside shooting pg or it could be a long, long season.
The Bulls and Pels seem like two pretty logical teams to trade with. Coming into the offseason I thought the Pels made sense as a place for Rudy, but the offseason they've had makes me feel like we can get Tyreke for much less. The Bulls seem committed to pasketball, and actively want to move Taj Gibson for someone who can play a stretch 4 spot. The two trades below work on RealGM, they both feel like the Kings are winning, but I also feel like both make sense for the other teams.
Trade 1:
Kings Out
Kosta Koufos
Kings In
Tyreke Evans
Why for Kings- Get someone who can handle the ball if Collison is suspended, who also can be a primary scorer off the bench, and has shown he won't be a malcontent off the bench. Has improved his shooting as well.
Why for Pels- They have more salary committed than they can pay so they have to move someone, they have too many guards, and Tyreke is seemingly the odd man out. They get frontcourt depth which is needed on a great contract in return and get the cap space to execute on their promises.
Trade 2:
Kings Out
Ben Maclemore
Rudy Gay
Kings In
Tony Snell
Taj Gibson
Kings draft pick
why for Kings - Get the vet frontcourt depth back you just traded away, Get a young wing defender, and get our pick for next year back. Hopefully we're good enough to relay that pick to the
Why for Bulls - They're looking to play pasketball, and are actively shopping Gibson as well as Snell. They get a guy who can stretch the floor in Rudy who already has chemistry with Rondo. They also have expressed interest in Mclemore as recently as the last trade deadline. If the Kings are bad this year, the pick becomes a second rounder, and if they're good it's a marginal asset.
Final Kings roster:
PG - Collison/Tyreke
SG - Afflalo/Snell/Temple
SF - Casspi/Barnes/Malachi
PF - WCS/Gibson/Tolliver/Skal
C - Cus/Papa/Skal
of course that's 15 guys and only 13 can be active and I've not even included ICuz, so there would still probably be work to be done I suppose
Trade 1:
Kings Out
Kosta Koufos
Kings In
Tyreke Evans
Why for Kings- Get someone who can handle the ball if Collison is suspended, who also can be a primary scorer off the bench, and has shown he won't be a malcontent off the bench. Has improved his shooting as well.
Why for Pels- They have more salary committed than they can pay so they have to move someone, they have too many guards, and Tyreke is seemingly the odd man out. They get frontcourt depth which is needed on a great contract in return and get the cap space to execute on their promises.
Trade 2:
Kings Out
Ben Maclemore
Rudy Gay
Kings In
Tony Snell
Taj Gibson
Kings draft pick
why for Kings - Get the vet frontcourt depth back you just traded away, Get a young wing defender, and get our pick for next year back. Hopefully we're good enough to relay that pick to the
Why for Bulls - They're looking to play pasketball, and are actively shopping Gibson as well as Snell. They get a guy who can stretch the floor in Rudy who already has chemistry with Rondo. They also have expressed interest in Mclemore as recently as the last trade deadline. If the Kings are bad this year, the pick becomes a second rounder, and if they're good it's a marginal asset.
Final Kings roster:
PG - Collison/Tyreke
SG - Afflalo/Snell/Temple
SF - Casspi/Barnes/Malachi
PF - WCS/Gibson/Tolliver/Skal
C - Cus/Papa/Skal
of course that's 15 guys and only 13 can be active and I've not even included ICuz, so there would still probably be work to be done I suppose
That's only 14 guys, you listed Skal twice. So Second Cousins could be signe as the 3rd string PG. but if New Orleans really wants to trim salary and open another roster spot is ask for Toney Douglas too.
As for the Bulls, they'll start Rondo/Wade/Butler so I don't know that they'll want or need Rudy. He could split time as the backup SF and smallball PF but is he an upgrade over Portis & Mirotic at that spot?
If it was doable though I'd be pretty happy with that roster.
They wouldn't do that.. They already have Asik and Ajinca who play very similar to Koufos. They aren't going to give up Tyreke for free, even if he's on 1 year deal. There's no real guarantee that Jrue can stay healthy either...
I don't see how Holiday/Tyreke/Hield is too many guards. Frazier and Douglas are scrubs...
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
Pelicans today signed this scrub to a two year deal, so the odd man out might be Douglas and/or Cole?
Iced Espresso
Starter
I'm pretty sure that's why he chose us, gets to start, and hopefully for him a couple of decent paydays resulting from that.
twslam07
All-Star
Chicago Gets: Rudy Gay & Kosta Koufos
Chicago Gives: Taj Gibson, Doug McDermott, & Kings 2017 1st
Why for Chicago? Add another scorer who can be their super sixth man. This also frees up PF for Mirotic who's spacing they will need in the starting lineup with Rondo, Wade, & Butler in the starting lineup. Lastly, they get a center on a good contract that can spell Lopez for 20 minutes a night while giving the bulls the ability to have a rim protector on the floor all game.
PG - Rondo (34 min) / Grant (14 min) / Dinwiddie
SG - Wade (32 min) / Butler (16 min) / Snell
SF - Butler (20 min) / Gay (28 min)
PF - Mirotic (24 min) / Portis (18 min) / Gay (6 min)
C - Lopez (28 min) / Koufos (20 min) / Felicio
Sacramento Gets: Taj Gibson, Doug McDermott, & Kings 2017 1st
Sacramento Gives: Rudy Gay & Kosta Koufos
Why for Sacramento? Gibson could push Cauley-Stein to come off the bench while taking less pressure off of him as he's still developing. Gibson would be a good roleplaying, defensive PF next to Cousins while also being able to add extra spacing with his midrange jumper. We also free up the log jam at C while acquiring two long term assets when Gay could walk for nothing next year.
With that trade, we'd have extra cap space who I would use on a guy like Chalmers to help pickup the backup PG minutes. I'd then try to flip McLemore for a late 1st round pick in 2017 to continue adding assets. Then next year you have two 1st round picks, I. Cousins, Richardson, Bogdanovic, McDermott, Labissiere, Cauley-Stein, & Papagiannis all on rookie contracts. That's 9 players right there, and that's a lot of talent and youth to work with/develop or move in trades.
PG - Collison (32 min) / Chalmers (16 min) / Cousins
SG - Afflalo (24 min) / Temple (24 min) / Richardson
SF - Casspi (18 min) / Barnes (24 min) / Afflalo (6 min) / McDermott
PF - Gibson (26 min) / Cauley-Stein (14 min) / Casspi (8 min) / Tolliver / Labissiere
C - Cousins (36 min) / Cauley-Stein (12 min) / Papagiannis
Cousins - 36 min
Collison - 32 min
Afflalo - 30 min
Casspi - 26 min
Gibson - 26 min
Cauley-Stein - 26 min
Temple - 24 min
Barnes - 24 min
Chalmers - 16 min
Probably not a playoff team unless Joerger gets this team to buy in and play together like Memphis was able to do last year, but it sets up very nicely going into 2017.
Chicago Gives: Taj Gibson, Doug McDermott, & Kings 2017 1st
Why for Chicago? Add another scorer who can be their super sixth man. This also frees up PF for Mirotic who's spacing they will need in the starting lineup with Rondo, Wade, & Butler in the starting lineup. Lastly, they get a center on a good contract that can spell Lopez for 20 minutes a night while giving the bulls the ability to have a rim protector on the floor all game.
PG - Rondo (34 min) / Grant (14 min) / Dinwiddie
SG - Wade (32 min) / Butler (16 min) / Snell
SF - Butler (20 min) / Gay (28 min)
PF - Mirotic (24 min) / Portis (18 min) / Gay (6 min)
C - Lopez (28 min) / Koufos (20 min) / Felicio
Sacramento Gets: Taj Gibson, Doug McDermott, & Kings 2017 1st
Sacramento Gives: Rudy Gay & Kosta Koufos
Why for Sacramento? Gibson could push Cauley-Stein to come off the bench while taking less pressure off of him as he's still developing. Gibson would be a good roleplaying, defensive PF next to Cousins while also being able to add extra spacing with his midrange jumper. We also free up the log jam at C while acquiring two long term assets when Gay could walk for nothing next year.
With that trade, we'd have extra cap space who I would use on a guy like Chalmers to help pickup the backup PG minutes. I'd then try to flip McLemore for a late 1st round pick in 2017 to continue adding assets. Then next year you have two 1st round picks, I. Cousins, Richardson, Bogdanovic, McDermott, Labissiere, Cauley-Stein, & Papagiannis all on rookie contracts. That's 9 players right there, and that's a lot of talent and youth to work with/develop or move in trades.
PG - Collison (32 min) / Chalmers (16 min) / Cousins
SG - Afflalo (24 min) / Temple (24 min) / Richardson
SF - Casspi (18 min) / Barnes (24 min) / Afflalo (6 min) / McDermott
PF - Gibson (26 min) / Cauley-Stein (14 min) / Casspi (8 min) / Tolliver / Labissiere
C - Cousins (36 min) / Cauley-Stein (12 min) / Papagiannis
Cousins - 36 min
Collison - 32 min
Afflalo - 30 min
Casspi - 26 min
Gibson - 26 min
Cauley-Stein - 26 min
Temple - 24 min
Barnes - 24 min
Chalmers - 16 min
Probably not a playoff team unless Joerger gets this team to buy in and play together like Memphis was able to do last year, but it sets up very nicely going into 2017.
twslam07
All-Star
Miami Gets: Cameron Payne, Ben McLemore, Mitch McGary, & Enes Kanter
Miami Gives: Goran Dragic, Chris Bosh, & Josh McRoberts
Why for Miami? Miami hits reset and gets out a couple long term contracts while adding more youth to the roster.
PG - Payne / Weber
SG - Johnson / McLemore / McGruder
SF - Winslow / Richardson
PF - McGary
C - Whiteside / Kanter
Oklahoma City Gets: Cameron Payne, Anthony Morrow, Mitch McGary, & Enes Kanter
Oklahoma City Gives: Rudy Gay, Chris Bosh, & Kosta Koufos
Why for Oklahoma City? OKC gives up a couple of their young pieces for some veterans that still give them a chance to compete next year. Losing Durant but gaining Oladipo, Gay, & a healthy Bosh could potentially be an upgrade in talent.
PG - Westbrook
SG - Roberson / Oladipo
SF - Gay / Singler
PF - Bosh / Ilyasova / Collison
C - Adams / Koufos
Sacramento Gets: Goran Dragic, Anthony Morrow, & Josh McRoberts
Sacramento Gives: Ben McLemore, Rudy Gay, & Kosta Koufos
Why for Sacramento? We're able to pick up a valuable player who is on friendly contract over the next 3 years (vs. Gay can walk next year). Dragic also still maintains that #2 option to help us keep some balance on the team. Bringing in Dragic pushes Collison into that 6th man role which he was very effective in last year. Also, considering Dragic is 6'3" with a 6'7" wingspan, we should be able to play Dragic & Collison more effectively than Rondo/Collison last year. Not only do they get Dragic, but we also get another wing shooter to round out the rotation and another PF that can help in the rotation.
PG - Dragic / Collison / Cousins
SG - Afflalo / Temple / Richardson
SF - Casspi / Barnes / Morrow
PF - Cauley-Stein / Tolliver / McRoberts / Labissiere
C - Cousins / Papagiannis
Miami Gives: Goran Dragic, Chris Bosh, & Josh McRoberts
Why for Miami? Miami hits reset and gets out a couple long term contracts while adding more youth to the roster.
PG - Payne / Weber
SG - Johnson / McLemore / McGruder
SF - Winslow / Richardson
PF - McGary
C - Whiteside / Kanter
Oklahoma City Gets: Cameron Payne, Anthony Morrow, Mitch McGary, & Enes Kanter
Oklahoma City Gives: Rudy Gay, Chris Bosh, & Kosta Koufos
Why for Oklahoma City? OKC gives up a couple of their young pieces for some veterans that still give them a chance to compete next year. Losing Durant but gaining Oladipo, Gay, & a healthy Bosh could potentially be an upgrade in talent.
PG - Westbrook
SG - Roberson / Oladipo
SF - Gay / Singler
PF - Bosh / Ilyasova / Collison
C - Adams / Koufos
Sacramento Gets: Goran Dragic, Anthony Morrow, & Josh McRoberts
Sacramento Gives: Ben McLemore, Rudy Gay, & Kosta Koufos
Why for Sacramento? We're able to pick up a valuable player who is on friendly contract over the next 3 years (vs. Gay can walk next year). Dragic also still maintains that #2 option to help us keep some balance on the team. Bringing in Dragic pushes Collison into that 6th man role which he was very effective in last year. Also, considering Dragic is 6'3" with a 6'7" wingspan, we should be able to play Dragic & Collison more effectively than Rondo/Collison last year. Not only do they get Dragic, but we also get another wing shooter to round out the rotation and another PF that can help in the rotation.
PG - Dragic / Collison / Cousins
SG - Afflalo / Temple / Richardson
SF - Casspi / Barnes / Morrow
PF - Cauley-Stein / Tolliver / McRoberts / Labissiere
C - Cousins / Papagiannis
K
KingsFan80
Guest
Rumors on twitter tonight saying a 3 team trade, Griffin to Boston, LAC get Gay and a draft pick, and we get Crowder and some more pieces
Hoovtrain
All-Star
Do you by chance have a link? Can't find anything
It was put out there to Carmicheal Dave as a question of if it was a fair trade. Not even a rumor. Just a fan using the trade machine.
K
KingsFan80
Guest
Keith Smith @KeithSmithNBA 12h12 hours ago
Hearing some rumors here in Las Vegas that BOS is talking Blake Griffin again. And this time it could be a 3 way with SAC getting R. Gay.
K
KingsFan80
Guest
Keith Smith @KeithSmithNBA 12h12 hours ago
To clarify my earlier tweet: BOS would get Griffin, LAC would get Gay and SAC would get Crowder. Other pieces also involved.
To clarify my earlier tweet: BOS would get Griffin, LAC would get Gay and SAC would get Crowder. Other pieces also involved.
Hoovtrain
All-Star
I think we need to clarify what constitutes a rumor to some people.
Never mind I see an actual rumor above. I was wrong
K
KingMilz
Guest
If we get Crowder that would be unreal he's exactly the type of player I have been dreaming about.
K
KingsFan80
Guest
I didn't say it was a rumor I heard on Carmichael Dave. I don't even listen to him. I saw it on Twitter and posted it. No clue if true
Hoovtrain
All-Star
I know I was referencing your tweet you posted and acknowledging that is an actual rumor
Hoovtrain
All-Star
From what I recall he's a pretty good defender, correct?
I know he's a solid role player, which is what we need
twslam07
All-Star
He's an excellent defender.
ParniValjak
All-Star
I would love Crowder but seriously worried who besides Cousins could be relied to score consistently or more importantly be a consistent scoring threat for us when Cousins sits or misses his customary 10-15 games a season.
It's great to talk about getting rid off Rudy but is he goes, we have no scorer capable of consistently scoring 20 points on good percentage with defenses focused in on them.
It's great to talk about getting rid off Rudy but is he goes, we have no scorer capable of consistently scoring 20 points on good percentage with defenses focused in on them.
biltalent
Starter
I would love to get Crowder. If we could swap Rudy for Crowder it would be hell of a trade because Crowders contract is just so valuable.
Actually if we assume Boston sends the Nets pick to the Clippers in that deal it would make sense for everyone involved.
For example Celtics get Griffin + filler, Clippers get Gay, Amir Johnson and Nets pick, Kings get Crowder and Rozier.
Or if the Clippers want shred salaries we take Amir and give Mclemore/Koufos to the celtics or clippers.
Collison-Afflalo-Crowder-Wcs-Cousins is a very good starting lineup defensively. Lacks firepower however
though crowder has made great strides offensively as he averaged 14 points in 31 min per game.
The more intruiging thing however is that he is locked up for 4 more years at an insanse cheap price. We would bet set at SF-PF-C for years and could focus on getting our PG in free agency next year.
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