Current Team Discussion and Possible Trades

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sounds a lot like Casspi already.
Rather different players.

Another option is Minnesota, who needs vets like mad. Shabazz and Payne are options there. Shabazz is a little hurt right now, but he's beefy enough to spot small ball 4. Payne is a legit big man with range, rebounding and athleticism but has major bball IQ questions.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
Rather different players.

Another option is Minnesota, who needs vets like mad. Shabazz and Payne are options there. Shabazz is a little hurt right now, but he's beefy enough to spot small ball 4. Payne is a legit big man with range, rebounding and athleticism but has major bball IQ questions.
Do the Kings really want to bring in these type of players again?
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
The more I watch the more I think we need to acquire a PG. Collison is ok, Lawson has shown flashes. Both guys together are a reasonable PG rotation but I think a deal that brings in a clear upgrade is needed at some point. Some of the vets I'd like to see come in is Bledsoe, Dragic, or some young guy to bring in would be Cameron Payne. I occasionally see Sean Cunningham at the high school I coach at...he does his tv reporting thing and we talk briefly about the Kings, he says Kings really want Payne. I think that is a name to keep an eye on once Payne gets healthy.

I'm down for trading Collison and maybe a Ben...seems that there is some decent value there in a package deal or individually. I prefer Bledsoe though.
 
Ha. It's amazing how much we overvalue DMC. No chance MIN trades Wiggins straight up for DMC, let alone adding in Dunn and the pick.
You could say that about every fan of every team. For instance, just how valuable are Wiggins and Dunn -- really? Minny isn't winning with this great young core they've assembled that everybody seems to be gaga over. Wiggins is showing signs of being a top flight player, like Cousins already is, and Dunn is an unproven talent. Everybody THINKS he will be very good, but right now he's just a young talent and nothing more.

As for overvaluing DMC, I'm not sure it's ridiculous to expect a lot in return for a guy averaging 26ppg and 11.8 rpg the past 2 seasons (+18games this year) and that some think would transform the T-Wolves into an instant title threat after being paired with KAT.

C'mon man -- Cuz is widely considering the best C if not big in the game right now. It's ok to overvalue him. If he goes to the right team, they'd be getting a lot in return for their investment.

I'm not on board the trade DMC train, but if they did -- I'm not so sure this is an overvalue considering everything already outlined.
 
You could say that about every fan of every team. For instance, just how valuable are Wiggins and Dunn -- really? Minny isn't winning with this great young core they've assembled that everybody seems to be gaga over. Wiggins is showing signs of being a top flight player, like Cousins already is, and Dunn is an unproven talent. Everybody THINKS he will be very good, but right now he's just a young talent and nothing more.

As for overvaluing DMC, I'm not sure it's ridiculous to expect a lot in return for a guy averaging 26ppg and 11.8 rpg the past 2 seasons (+18games this year) and that some think would transform the T-Wolves into an instant title threat after being paired with KAT.

C'mon man -- Cuz is widely considering the best C if not big in the game right now. It's ok to overvalue him. If he goes to the right team, they'd be getting a lot in return for their investment.

I'm not on board the trade DMC train, but if they did -- I'm not so sure this is an overvalue considering everything already outlined.
kings just need a solid shooting threat to make teams pay for doubling cousins. so far we don't have that. he's the 3 point threat, driving threat and post threat
 
I have no idea what the trade or trades we make after December 15th, but I am positive we make at minimum a 3 player difference to this current roster. There is no way we roll the whole season with the current roster construct. There are very specific reasons to have the contracts structured the way we do, it's to add flexibility to the trades. I expect 3-4 of the following players to be gone mid by mid season

Tolliver
Cassipi
Gay
Afflalo
Collison
Koufos
McClemore

and maybe

WCS


All of those players are on very cap friendly contracts. Some can cut cap space for next season or try to convince a player to keep a player option. Lots of different scenarios. The question really comes down to who is available. What player that is a diamond in the rough, ALA Chris Webber, that we could hope to resurrect their career. That is the only was we are getting 2-1 or 3-2 trade to happen to upgrade and not just move players around to move them.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
You could say that about every fan of every team. For instance, just how valuable are Wiggins and Dunn -- really? Minny isn't winning with this great young core they've assembled that everybody seems to be gaga over. Wiggins is showing signs of being a top flight player, like Cousins already is, and Dunn is an unproven talent. Everybody THINKS he will be very good, but right now he's just a young talent and nothing more.

As for overvaluing DMC, I'm not sure it's ridiculous to expect a lot in return for a guy averaging 26ppg and 11.8 rpg the past 2 seasons (+18games this year) and that some think would transform the T-Wolves into an instant title threat after being paired with KAT.

C'mon man -- Cuz is widely considering the best C if not big in the game right now. It's ok to overvalue him. If he goes to the right team, they'd be getting a lot in return for their investment.

I'm not on board the trade DMC train, but if they did -- I'm not so sure this is an overvalue considering everything already outlined.
There several ways to acquire a star player, and one is you get lucky, like we did with Cousins. Or you trade for an already established star, but give up a lot of assets to do so. You sign one in free agency, which so far has proven difficult for the Kings. Or you gamble on the development of a young player with star potential. The latter is probably the riskiest as far as getting the result you want, but it can also be the cheapest and sometimes the easiest to pull off. I think Dunn has star potential, but with the coming draft being loaded potentialy with equally talented PG's, it might be better to wait.

I do think the Kings will make a trade or two, at or before the deadline, but I doubt it will be Cousins. I could make an argument for both keeping him, and trading him, but keeping him, if he's willing to stay is far less risky than trading him. Now if you can't get some kind of verbal commitment out of him, then that's a different story. I will say this, if it's the Kings intent to trade Cousins, then sooner is better than later. The longer they wait, the less they're likely to get for him. As to his value, well, I'd love to know what's been offered so far.
 
kings get: wall, morris
wizards get: gay, collison, koufos, skal, future 1st

might start a conversation, wizards say no though i think
I don't think WAS even picks up the phone. Collision and Gay are gone after the season. If WAS blew it up they would look for young pieces not expiring deals. Koufos, Skal and a future first probably doesn't even get you Morris

Sorry I think you are way off on this one
 

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
I don't think WAS even picks up the phone. Collision and Gay are gone after the season. If WAS blew it up they would look for young pieces not expiring deals. Koufos, Skal and a future first probably doesn't even get you Morris

Sorry I think you are way off on this one
I think the Wizards would much rather trade Beal anyway.

But I'm also tired of the Kings trading away future 1sts. True, they don't mean much when you draft poorly, but realistically that's the only way the Kings are going to get a top flight talent.
 
I think the Wizards would much rather trade Beal anyway.

But I'm also tired of the Kings trading away future 1sts. True, they don't mean much when you draft poorly, but realistically that's the only way the Kings are going to get a top flight talent.
You are a wise person....what would be your plan to surround Cousins with adequate, balanced , complimentary talent with all the hurdles this team will face (lack of FAs, lack of young talent, lack of trade pieces etc). I just don't see how this team can move forward and become a formidable team. This team, as constructed, is a 31-40 team (maybe) ...but that's their ceiling IMO . So how is this team going to get better when their only valuable trade piece is also their best player.
 
I doubt the Blazers would do it but I'd offer up Willie and Affalo for Allen Crabbe (once he can be traded, I think Dec 15). Crabbe's off to a slow start and if the Blazers commit to McCollum, Aminu and Evan Turner (who is playing bad too), Crabbe would immediately become our starting SG, and provides insurance should Rudy walk this summer. This is the bold aggressive move we should have made instead of wasting so much cap space on washed veterans like Affalo, Tolliver, and a 36 year old shooting 39%
 
I have no idea what the trade or trades we make after December 15th, but I am positive we make at minimum a 3 player difference to this current roster. There is no way we roll the whole season with the current roster construct. There are very specific reasons to have the contracts structured the way we do, it's to add flexibility to the trades. I expect 3-4 of the following players to be gone mid by mid season

Tolliver
Cassipi
Gay
Afflalo
Collison
Koufos
McClemore

and maybe

WCS


All of those players are on very cap friendly contracts. Some can cut cap space for next season or try to convince a player to keep a player option. Lots of different scenarios. The question really comes down to who is available. What player that is a diamond in the rough, ALA Chris Webber, that we could hope to resurrect their career. That is the only was we are getting 2-1 or 3-2 trade to happen to upgrade and not just move players around to move them.
I agree with you we are going to see some action because in addition to our flexibility there are a lot of teams sputtering around unhappy with their moves over the summer. I disagree with Rudy being on the block though. I think the Kings are satisfied with what Rudy has given to them and they see him as a nice complement with more value to them than around the league. I also think unless he wakes up from his virtual coma in the next 20 games, Willie may be the player MOST likely to be shipped out.
 

Capt. Factorial

ceterum censeo delendum esse Argentum
Staff member
I doubt the Blazers would do it but I'd offer up Willie and Affalo for Allen Crabbe (once he can be traded, I think Dec 15). Crabbe's off to a slow start and if the Blazers commit to McCollum, Aminu and Evan Turner (who is playing bad too), Crabbe would immediately become our starting SG, and provides insurance should Rudy walk this summer. This is the bold aggressive move we should have made instead of wasting so much cap space on washed veterans like Affalo, Tolliver, and a 36 year old shooting 39%
I don't get it. Crabbe has been mediocre and is on a huge contract with a 15% trade kicker no less. So we should trade for him to be our starting SG despite Bogdanovic likely coming over next year? This doesn't make sense on any level unless you somehow think Crabbe is going have this lightbulb go off and suddenly turn into an amazing player. But he's Allen Crabbe. What are the odds of that?
 
I don't get it. Crabbe has been mediocre and is on a huge contract with a 15% trade kicker no less. So we should trade for him to be our starting SG despite Bogdanovic likely coming over next year? This doesn't make sense on any level unless you somehow think Crabbe is going have this lightbulb go off and suddenly turn into an amazing player. But he's Allen Crabbe. What are the odds of that?
He can play SF too. I think he can be an easy 16-20 PPG guy. And he's a good defender. He was 13 PPG and 53% on threes in the playoff vs the Warriors. The light bulb was going off for him, he's just in a numbers crunch now.
 

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
You are a wise person....what would be your plan to surround Cousins with adequate, balanced , complimentary talent with all the hurdles this team will face (lack of FAs, lack of young talent, lack of trade pieces etc). I just don't see how this team can move forward and become a formidable team. This team, as constructed, is a 31-40 team (maybe) ...but that's their ceiling IMO . So how is this team going to get better when their only valuable trade piece is also their best player.
That's the $1 million question. And the reality is that I don't see a real path forward.

Gay, Collison, Lawson & Casspi are free agents after the season and Rudy & Omri have already talked about wanting to move on. Afflalo & Tolliver could be cut loose too and unless things change, I think the Kings would opt to do that.

So yet again it's likely that next summer the Kings will have to totally revamp the roster around Cousins. Or maybe they persuade Gay to stay and slightly overpay based on his market value. Then the Kings are locked into a duo that haven't led the team to more than 33 wins. That's an issue, regardless of how poor the supporting cast is.

I don't know how to get the 2nd star they need (regardless if Gay stays or not) next to Cousins other than drafting one and even a player acquired that way will likely take at least a couple years to become a star. And the odds aren't great considering the Kings have gone six straight years with top 8 picks and haven't gotten a star player.

The formula for building around Boogie is pretty simple IMO. You need a second star at either the PG, SG & SF position who is either a shooter and/or a premier slasher. You need an athletic defender & weakside shot blocker at PF as well as a PF who can stretch the defense. Ideally one guy who does both as the starter next to Cousins. The other two starters should be 3 & D players. Off the bench you want a change of pace PG, a sixth man scorer who can get hot and put up points and ideally a poor man's Boogie (like Nurkic, Okafor etc) so the team can run the same action when Boogie is on the bench or misses games, something that has been a huge issue for years. The rest of the roster should be savvy vets and rookies - ideally high ceiling kids that can develop in the background.

Which of those pieces does the team have?

Well, there's Boogie. And then, uh. . .

Temple is a nice 3&D SG. I hoped Cauley-Stein could be the athletic PF but he's disappointed on defense and really disappointed as a rebounder while not showing a lot on offense.

Gay is not a 2nd star on a good team and his game is a poor match with Cousins. Tyreke was a premier slasher but he never developed into the star we hoped and still struggles to stay healthy.

Barnes is a savvy vet which is nice but that's a minor piece of the puzzle and he's got maybe one season left after this. Skal could be a high ceiling kid, but again that's a small piece when the real foundation is missing.

Had the Kings taken Klay Thompson over Jimmer and the Lillard over Robinson the next season history would be dramatically different.

That's the reality of things. We can blame the Maloofs and the uncertainty around the team or PDA or George Karl or being a small market or Cousin's outbursts and lack of mental toughness but the reality is just that the Kings have blown draft pick after draft pick.

So I don't see a clear path forward. Given that they are on pace for yet another top 8 pick I guess the first step is to actually hit on a lottery selection for once. But I don't have a lot of faith in that happening.

That's the catch 22 with Boogie now. It's getting to the point where the Kings don't have a great path forward and have to consider trading him to rebuild. But a rebuild is generally built around acquiring lottery picks which does the Kings no good if they continue to squander them. It could mean giving up the best center in the NBA and the only valuable piece they have for more Jimmers and Sauce Castillos.
 
That's the $1 million question. And the reality is that I don't see a real path forward.

Gay, Collison, Lawson & Casspi are free agents after the season and Rudy & Omri have already talked about wanting to move on. Afflalo & Tolliver could be cut loose too and unless things change, I think the Kings would opt to do that.

So yet again it's likely that next summer the Kings will have to totally revamp the roster around Cousins. Or maybe they persuade Gay to stay and slightly overpay based on his market value. Then the Kings are locked into a duo that haven't led the team to more than 33 wins. That's an issue, regardless of how poor the supporting cast is.

I don't know how to get the 2nd star they need (regardless if Gay stays or not) next to Cousins other than drafting one and even a player acquired that way will likely take at least a couple years to become a star. And the odds aren't great considering the Kings have gone six straight years with top 8 picks and haven't gotten a star player.

The formula for building around Boogie is pretty simple IMO. You need a second star at either the PG, SG & SF position who is either a shooter and/or a premier slasher. You need an athletic defender & weakside shot blocker at PF as well as a PF who can stretch the defense. Ideally one guy who does both as the starter next to Cousins. The other two starters should be 3 & D players. Off the bench you want a change of pace PG, a sixth man scorer who can get hot and put up points and ideally a poor man's Boogie (like Nurkic, Okafor etc) so the team can run the same action when Boogie is on the bench or misses games, something that has been a huge issue for years. The rest of the roster should be savvy vets and rookies - ideally high ceiling kids that can develop in the background.

Which of those pieces does the team have?

Well, there's Boogie. And then, uh. . .

Temple is a nice 3&D SG. I hoped Cauley-Stein could be the athletic PF but he's disappointed on defense and really disappointed as a rebounder while not showing a lot on offense.

Gay is not a 2nd star on a good team and his game is a poor match with Cousins. Tyreke was a premier slasher but he never developed into the star we hoped and still struggles to stay healthy.

Barnes is a savvy vet which is nice but that's a minor piece of the puzzle and he's got maybe one season left after this. Skal could be a high ceiling kid, but again that's a small piece when the real foundation is missing.

Had the Kings taken Klay Thompson over Jimmer and the Lillard over Robinson the next season history would be dramatically different.

That's the reality of things. We can blame the Maloofs and the uncertainty around the team or PDA or George Karl or being a small market or Cousin's outbursts and lack of mental toughness but the reality is just that the Kings have blown draft pick after draft pick.

So I don't see a clear path forward. Given that they are on pace for yet another top 8 pick I guess the first step is to actually hit on a lottery selection for once. But I don't have a lot of faith in that happening.

That's the catch 22 with Boogie now. It's getting to the point where the Kings don't have a great path forward and have to consider trading him to rebuild. But a rebuild is generally built around acquiring lottery picks which does the Kings no good if they continue to squander them. It could mean giving up the best center in the NBA and the only valuable piece they have for more Jimmers and Sauce Castillos.
Well crap
 
He can play SF too. I think he can be an easy 16-20 PPG guy. And he's a good defender. He was 13 PPG and 53% on threes in the playoff vs the Warriors. The light bulb was going off for him, he's just in a numbers crunch now.
Not yet. He has good defensive potential, but again, not yet.

2016-2017
-2.37 DRPM (90th among SGs)
DRTG On/Off = +1.5 pts per 100 poss.

2015-2016

DRAPM = -1.56 (429th in the league)
DRPM = -2.58 (71st among SGs)
DRTG On/Off = +3.7 pts per 100 poss.
 
In my mind it's worthwhile to throw everything and the kitchen sink (minus Boogie) at attempting to acquire Wall. Then you set Boogie and Wall loose on free agents and ask them to recruit others to come here (i.e. Bledsoe) or whoever.

With our limited assets this is one of the few ways I see us building a contender.
 
That's the $1 million question. And the reality is that I don't see a real path forward.

Gay, Collison, Lawson & Casspi are free agents after the season and Rudy & Omri have already talked about wanting to move on. Afflalo & Tolliver could be cut loose too and unless things change, I think the Kings would opt to do that.

So yet again it's likely that next summer the Kings will have to totally revamp the roster around Cousins. Or maybe they persuade Gay to stay and slightly overpay based on his market value. Then the Kings are locked into a duo that haven't led the team to more than 33 wins. That's an issue, regardless of how poor the supporting cast is.

I don't know how to get the 2nd star they need (regardless if Gay stays or not) next to Cousins other than drafting one and even a player acquired that way will likely take at least a couple years to become a star. And the odds aren't great considering the Kings have gone six straight years with top 8 picks and haven't gotten a star player.

The formula for building around Boogie is pretty simple IMO. You need a second star at either the PG, SG & SF position who is either a shooter and/or a premier slasher. You need an athletic defender & weakside shot blocker at PF as well as a PF who can stretch the defense. Ideally one guy who does both as the starter next to Cousins. The other two starters should be 3 & D players. Off the bench you want a change of pace PG, a sixth man scorer who can get hot and put up points and ideally a poor man's Boogie (like Nurkic, Okafor etc) so the team can run the same action when Boogie is on the bench or misses games, something that has been a huge issue for years. The rest of the roster should be savvy vets and rookies - ideally high ceiling kids that can develop in the background.

Which of those pieces does the team have?

Well, there's Boogie. And then, uh. . .

Temple is a nice 3&D SG. I hoped Cauley-Stein could be the athletic PF but he's disappointed on defense and really disappointed as a rebounder while not showing a lot on offense.

Gay is not a 2nd star on a good team and his game is a poor match with Cousins. Tyreke was a premier slasher but he never developed into the star we hoped and still struggles to stay healthy.

Barnes is a savvy vet which is nice but that's a minor piece of the puzzle and he's got maybe one season left after this. Skal could be a high ceiling kid, but again that's a small piece when the real foundation is missing.

Had the Kings taken Klay Thompson over Jimmer and the Lillard over Robinson the next season history would be dramatically different.

That's the reality of things. We can blame the Maloofs and the uncertainty around the team or PDA or George Karl or being a small market or Cousin's outbursts and lack of mental toughness but the reality is just that the Kings have blown draft pick after draft pick.

So I don't see a clear path forward. Given that they are on pace for yet another top 8 pick I guess the first step is to actually hit on a lottery selection for once. But I don't have a lot of faith in that happening.

That's the catch 22 with Boogie now. It's getting to the point where the Kings don't have a great path forward and have to consider trading him to rebuild. But a rebuild is generally built around acquiring lottery picks which does the Kings no good if they continue to squander them. It could mean giving up the best center in the NBA and the only valuable piece they have for more Jimmers and Sauce Castillos.
I already posted it in the other thread but I wanted to repeat it here because it seems to fit better. If we are indeed going to keep the pick like you said, I wonder whether we could make the pick for Phoenix and then package it with Willie for Bledsoe. This seems like a fair deal for both sides. We get our #2 option to pair with Cuz while Phoenix can go into rebuild mode and can build around Booker, their and our first round pick to replace Bledsoe and Warren/Chriss/Bender/Willie. Actually, I asked Phoenix fans on realgm what they think of a Bledsoe deal and they seem to be open to it if it involes a top ten pick and another asset. On a recent podcast, NBA analysts Nate Duncan and Danny Leroux also indicated that Bledsoe is worth a lottery pick + a young prospect.
Interestingly, assuming a cap of 103 mil and that we move on from Afflalo, Tolliver and Mclemore we could keep the cap hold of Gay, Collison and Casspi on the book and still have 5-7 to mil to sign Bogdanovic. So potentially we could look at a roster of:
PG: Bledsoe / Collison. SG: Temple / Bogdanovic. SF: Gay. PF: Barnes / Casspi. C: Cousins / Koufos + the rooks.

As Hoovtrain already said, no one knows if this team would be successfull but it sounds a lot better than what we have right now.
 
I doubt the Blazers would do it but I'd offer up Willie and Affalo for Allen Crabbe (once he can be traded, I think Dec 15). Crabbe's off to a slow start and if the Blazers commit to McCollum, Aminu and Evan Turner (who is playing bad too), Crabbe would immediately become our starting SG, and provides insurance should Rudy walk this summer. This is the bold aggressive move we should have made instead of wasting so much cap space on washed veterans like Affalo, Tolliver, and a 36 year old shooting 39%
I actually really like this trade.

I don't get it. Crabbe has been mediocre and is on a huge contract with a 15% trade kicker no less. So we should trade for him to be our starting SG despite Bogdanovic likely coming over next year? This doesn't make sense on any level unless you somehow think Crabbe is going have this lightbulb go off and suddenly turn into an amazing player. But he's Allen Crabbe. What are the odds of that?
I think it comes down to how much impact you think Bogdanovic will actually have on the Kings in his 1st year. When next season rolls around, Crabbe and Bogdanovic will both be 25. However, only Crabbe is the proven NBA player. Do you see Bogdanovic as our franchise SG?

Crabbe helps us this year too though. He gives us the much much needed 3pt shooting we lack. He can also play a little bit at SF. We saw the Blazers go with Lillard-McCollum-Crabbe a lot last season. He could replace Rudy if Vlade decides to trade him.

Crabbe is a starting SG. Afflalo is not. If all we're giving up is Afflalo+WCS why not? Crabbe has a hefty contract, but he'd be the best SG on our roster since the Bayou Bomber. He could also potentially be a piece for us to build around Cousins.
 
I already posted it in the other thread but I wanted to repeat it here because it seems to fit better. If we are indeed going to keep the pick like you said, I wonder whether we could make the pick for Phoenix and then package it with Willie for Bledsoe. This seems like a fair deal for both sides. We get our #2 option to pair with Cuz while Phoenix can go into rebuild mode and can build around Booker, their and our first round pick to replace Bledsoe and Warren/Chriss/Bender/Willie. Actually, I asked Phoenix fans on realgm what they think of a Bledsoe deal and they seem to be open to it if it involes a top ten pick and another asset. On a recent podcast, NBA analysts Nate Duncan and Danny Leroux also indicated that Bledsoe is worth a lottery pick + a young prospect.
Interestingly, assuming a cap of 103 mil and that we move on from Afflalo, Tolliver and Mclemore we could keep the cap hold of Gay, Collison and Casspi on the book and still have 5-7 to mil to sign Bogdanovic. So potentially we could look at a roster of:
PG: Bledsoe / Collison. SG: Temple / Bogdanovic. SF: Gay. PF: Barnes / Casspi. C: Cousins / Koufos + the rooks.

As Hoovtrain already said, no one knows if this team would be successfull but it sounds a lot better than what we have right now.
I like it better now that see the lineup and depth chart laid out
 
If we trade for anyone on the Blazers it should be Turner. He can handle the ball and create, something we desperately lack. He could start at 3 once Rudy is gone and we slide Bogdan in at the 2.
 

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
Well yes and no.

The Kings don't have a lot of ammunition. But they do have a cornerstone in Cousins. Devin Booker went #13 in last year's draft. How good we he look next to Boogie. Klay Thompson went 11th in his draft.

My big point is that for the Kings to improve they need to strike gold with a lottery pick. They don't have enough assets (other than Cousins) to trade their way into being a good team.

If they keep their pick one great draft could change the course of the team in a very good way.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
That's the $1 million question. And the reality is that I don't see a real path forward.

Gay, Collison, Lawson & Casspi are free agents after the season and Rudy & Omri have already talked about wanting to move on. Afflalo & Tolliver could be cut loose too and unless things change, I think the Kings would opt to do that.

So yet again it's likely that next summer the Kings will have to totally revamp the roster around Cousins. Or maybe they persuade Gay to stay and slightly overpay based on his market value. Then the Kings are locked into a duo that haven't led the team to more than 33 wins. That's an issue, regardless of how poor the supporting cast is.

I don't know how to get the 2nd star they need (regardless if Gay stays or not) next to Cousins other than drafting one and even a player acquired that way will likely take at least a couple years to become a star. And the odds aren't great considering the Kings have gone six straight years with top 8 picks and haven't gotten a star player.

The formula for building around Boogie is pretty simple IMO. You need a second star at either the PG, SG & SF position who is either a shooter and/or a premier slasher. You need an athletic defender & weakside shot blocker at PF as well as a PF who can stretch the defense. Ideally one guy who does both as the starter next to Cousins. The other two starters should be 3 & D players. Off the bench you want a change of pace PG, a sixth man scorer who can get hot and put up points and ideally a poor man's Boogie (like Nurkic, Okafor etc) so the team can run the same action when Boogie is on the bench or misses games, something that has been a huge issue for years. The rest of the roster should be savvy vets and rookies - ideally high ceiling kids that can develop in the background.

Which of those pieces does the team have?

Well, there's Boogie. And then, uh. . .

Temple is a nice 3&D SG. I hoped Cauley-Stein could be the athletic PF but he's disappointed on defense and really disappointed as a rebounder while not showing a lot on offense.

Gay is not a 2nd star on a good team and his game is a poor match with Cousins. Tyreke was a premier slasher but he never developed into the star we hoped and still struggles to stay healthy.

Barnes is a savvy vet which is nice but that's a minor piece of the puzzle and he's got maybe one season left after this. Skal could be a high ceiling kid, but again that's a small piece when the real foundation is missing.

Had the Kings taken Klay Thompson over Jimmer and the Lillard over Robinson the next season history would be dramatically different.

That's the reality of things. We can blame the Maloofs and the uncertainty around the team or PDA or George Karl or being a small market or Cousin's outbursts and lack of mental toughness but the reality is just that the Kings have blown draft pick after draft pick.

So I don't see a clear path forward. Given that they are on pace for yet another top 8 pick I guess the first step is to actually hit on a lottery selection for once. But I don't have a lot of faith in that happening.

That's the catch 22 with Boogie now. It's getting to the point where the Kings don't have a great path forward and have to consider trading him to rebuild. But a rebuild is generally built around acquiring lottery picks which does the Kings no good if they continue to squander them. It could mean giving up the best center in the NBA and the only valuable piece they have for more Jimmers and Sauce Castillos.
Excellent thought provoking post. Asks more questions than it answers, but that's the result of where we are right now. I think the major question that the Kings organization has to ask itself, and to be fair, maybe they have and haven't told us, is are we still trying to do a quick fix, or are we looking at a long term fix? I realize that if you asked most of the fans, the answer would be we want to win now, because we've already been bad for the legally required amount of time. If only it worked like that.

It's been my opinion that the Kings, regardless of who has been in charge, have been trying to throw together some combination of players that will magically become contenders. The result has been a revolving door with players coming and going followed closely by head coaches and the occasional GM. So here we are now with nothing to show for it, and still facing the same decisions we were facing 9 or 10 years ago. The only common denominator has been Cousins, and I don't say that in order to place blame. Just stating facts.

So, right here, right now, we do have one major NBA star. Cousins! The question is, how do we acquire another one? Well you can trade for one, which might be the most unlikely, because you usually have to give up one to get one, or give up so many asset's, that if it doesn't work out, your future is screwed. But more on that later. Another way is through free agency. All you need is cap space, which we will have this next off season, and the ability to attract a big star. Does anyone want to bet on that scenario? But, it's possible.. Lastly, you draft one. Hey, that's how we got Cousins, so it can work. But, your planting a seed, and seeds take time to grow, and in the meantime, we've already wasted part of Cousins prime.

That brings us full circle to whether we continue to build the team around Cousins? Let me think...... OK, I'd say yes, because getting that first star player is very difficult, and we already have one. That's if Cousins is willing to stay the course. So how do we speed up the process? The only way is to trade for another possible star, similar to how we got Webber. Find a very talented player that wants to move on from a team that's fed up with the player. I know everyone is looking at Wall. There is after all, the Cousins connection.

I'd rather look at his running mate, Beal. It's rumored that the Wiz would rather trade Beal, and I think Beal would look pretty good in a Kings uniform. Beal is capable of carrying a team on his back on occasion. Of course Beal would make some combination of McLemore, Afflalo, Temple, Bogdanovic expendable, and maybe included in the deal. I'm not sure what the Wiz would want in return, but hey, other than Cousins, just about everyone else on the team is expendable. If we were able to acquire Beal, maybe that could sway Gay to re-sign, and if that were possible, maybe the Kings would look more attractive to free agents next off season.

Of course that's a lot of if's and maybe's. But that's where we are right now, were living in a land of if's and maybe's. The bottom line is, the Kings have to decide what their plan is, and hopefully it's a different plan than we've had for the last 10 years.
 

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
I already posted it in the other thread but I wanted to repeat it here because it seems to fit better. If we are indeed going to keep the pick like you said, I wonder whether we could make the pick for Phoenix and then package it with Willie for Bledsoe. This seems like a fair deal for both sides. We get our #2 option to pair with Cuz while Phoenix can go into rebuild mode and can build around Booker, their and our first round pick to replace Bledsoe and Warren/Chriss/Bender/Willie. Actually, I asked Phoenix fans on realgm what they think of a Bledsoe deal and they seem to be open to it if it involes a top ten pick and another asset. On a recent podcast, NBA analysts Nate Duncan and Danny Leroux also indicated that Bledsoe is worth a lottery pick + a young prospect.
Interestingly, assuming a cap of 103 mil and that we move on from Afflalo, Tolliver and Mclemore we could keep the cap hold of Gay, Collison and Casspi on the book and still have 5-7 to mil to sign Bogdanovic. So potentially we could look at a roster of:
PG: Bledsoe / Collison. SG: Temple / Bogdanovic. SF: Gay. PF: Barnes / Casspi. C: Cousins / Koufos + the rooks.

As Hoovtrain already said, no one knows if this team would be successfull but it sounds a lot better than what we have right now.
I'd love Bledsoe but I can't see the Suns wanting WCS.

Even if they don't re-sign Len, they will have Dudley & Chandler as vets and Bender & Chriss as the youth.

Also, Willie's biggest drawback (rebounding) is also an issue for Bender & Chriss.
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
That's the $1 million question. And the reality is that I don't see a real path forward.

Gay, Collison, Lawson & Casspi are free agents after the season and Rudy & Omri have already talked about wanting to move on. Afflalo & Tolliver could be cut loose too and unless things change, I think the Kings would opt to do that.

So yet again it's likely that next summer the Kings will have to totally revamp the roster around Cousins. Or maybe they persuade Gay to stay and slightly overpay based on his market value. Then the Kings are locked into a duo that haven't led the team to more than 33 wins. That's an issue, regardless of how poor the supporting cast is.

I don't know how to get the 2nd star they need (regardless if Gay stays or not) next to Cousins other than drafting one and even a player acquired that way will likely take at least a couple years to become a star. And the odds aren't great considering the Kings have gone six straight years with top 8 picks and haven't gotten a star player.

The formula for building around Boogie is pretty simple IMO. You need a second star at either the PG, SG & SF position who is either a shooter and/or a premier slasher. You need an athletic defender & weakside shot blocker at PF as well as a PF who can stretch the defense. Ideally one guy who does both as the starter next to Cousins. The other two starters should be 3 & D players. Off the bench you want a change of pace PG, a sixth man scorer who can get hot and put up points and ideally a poor man's Boogie (like Nurkic, Okafor etc) so the team can run the same action when Boogie is on the bench or misses games, something that has been a huge issue for years. The rest of the roster should be savvy vets and rookies - ideally high ceiling kids that can develop in the background.

Which of those pieces does the team have?

Well, there's Boogie. And then, uh. . .

Temple is a nice 3&D SG. I hoped Cauley-Stein could be the athletic PF but he's disappointed on defense and really disappointed as a rebounder while not showing a lot on offense.

Gay is not a 2nd star on a good team and his game is a poor match with Cousins. Tyreke was a premier slasher but he never developed into the star we hoped and still struggles to stay healthy.

Barnes is a savvy vet which is nice but that's a minor piece of the puzzle and he's got maybe one season left after this. Skal could be a high ceiling kid, but again that's a small piece when the real foundation is missing.

Had the Kings taken Klay Thompson over Jimmer and the Lillard over Robinson the next season history would be dramatically different.

That's the reality of things. We can blame the Maloofs and the uncertainty around the team or PDA or George Karl or being a small market or Cousin's outbursts and lack of mental toughness but the reality is just that the Kings have blown draft pick after draft pick.

So I don't see a clear path forward. Given that they are on pace for yet another top 8 pick I guess the first step is to actually hit on a lottery selection for once. But I don't have a lot of faith in that happening.

That's the catch 22 with Boogie now. It's getting to the point where the Kings don't have a great path forward and have to consider trading him to rebuild. But a rebuild is generally built around acquiring lottery picks which does the Kings no good if they continue to squander them. It could mean giving up the best center in the NBA and the only valuable piece they have for more Jimmers and Sauce Castillos.
I think the path forward involves trading our veterans for young players, developing those young players, and getting the next few draft picks right. It's not an impossible task it just all hinges on smart talent evaluation. Rudy Gay, Omri Casspi, and Darren Collison are all on expiring deals but they have skills that playoff teams will be interested in. I don't see Afflalo or Tolliver bringing anything back in trade, but at least Vlade only gave them partially guaranteed second years so we can buy them out to create more cap space and/or roster spots. As for filling the roles you mentioned --- Labissiere, Richardson, and Bogdanovic at least look like they could slot in easily next to Cousins if they can be developed into NBA players. Labissiere is that athletic shotblocker and stretch 4 you're looking for but he needs to get stronger. Richardson is either a sixth man scorer or a 3 and D wing if Joerger can help to develop his defensive instincts. Bogdanovic shows the same type of potential as a scorer off the bench or a 3 and D wing. I don't think any of them will be our second or even third star, but they could fill important roles in the rotation at least. You mentioned Temple already so that's 5 out of 9 rotation spots potentially accounted for.

The trouble is that 3 of the 4 rotation players we're still looking for need to be 2-4 on the depth chart talent-wise and that's not going to be easy to accomplish for all of the reasons you mentioned. We need a second star, a third near All-Star if we really want to be competitive, and another really good complimentary piece at any position. One of them needs to be a PG, one of them needs to be a SF, and one of them probably needs to be a big. Here's what I would do: compile a list of young players in the league who haven't really broken out yet and might be obtainable in trade. Start working the phones trying to bring in at least one of them. Then we really do need to find a star in the draft. That hasn't happened here since Geoff Petrie left, but I don't think it's all that hard either unless the draft is particularly bad. We've been mostly drafting low-ceiling players who have no chance to be stars. That's a fundamental strategy that needs to change. We do have to keep our draft pick obviously to be able to draft a star but if we're trading Gay and Collison mid-season for young players that seems likely anyway. I like Brandon Jennings as a free agent target since he can be a very good backup or a stopgap starter while we develop a rookie and I don't think he'll be prohibitively expensive. Also PGs make good free agent targets for us right now because there aren't a lot of starting spots available. That's why we got Collison and Rondo to sign here.

Anyway, that was kindof rambling but my point was just that the situation isn't as hopeless as it appears on the surface. Vlade can quickly make this team relevant again with only a few players. The last two years he tried to bolster the Cousins/Gay duo with a bunch of veterans (Koufos, Belinelli, Rondo, Butler, Afflalo, Lawson, Barnes, Tolliver) and that hasn't worked out. The production from the veterans is about what should be expected -- with the exception of Belinelli forgetting how to shoot -- but it's clear that the core of the team just isn't talented enough. So the answer is to rebuild the core. Since Cousins is a top 10 player in the league at this point we're better off building around him than trading him, but either way I want to see an effort made to get younger, to target defensive talent, and to put together a group of players who will stick around long enough to develop a team identity together.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.