I dont disagree but Malone was frequently paired with low post shot blocking anchors.
Cousins Working His Butt Off (New poll)
- Thread starter rainmaker
- Start date
I dont disagree but Malone was frequently paired with low post shot blocking anchors.
KingsFanGER
Starter
Shot blocking is really hyped on this board isn't it?
Cousins can be decent on the defensive end. I have no doubt about that. Why do some of you focus solely on pairing him with a Ibaka-Clone? There is no athletic shotblocker avaiable right now, who is good enough to start in the NBA. So we have to look at other options, like pairing Cousins with a scoring PF, so that he isnt our only offensive option in the low-post and has more energy left to rebound and defend, while the coaching staff helps him to work on his defecits on D.
I prefer starting an experienced Landry over starting someone like Aldrich or Withey.
In an ideal world i would have liked a team of Mcollum/Schroeder, Evans, Iggy, Cousins, Dalembert, but it was not possible, cause none of the major freeagents, wants to play for the Kings. Sadly we have to work with our current personal and try to do our best.
And to develop Cousins Defense is the best we can do right now, outside of signing a healthy Greg Oden...
It's a bit pitiful to see how Thomas Robinson perfoms in Summerleague right now - rebounding, shotblocking. Everything the Kings need according to most of the people in here. Maybe the Kings gave up on him way too early.
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
change frequently to "almost always"
And hey, I would be happy with Cuz getting to that level. With his strength, long arms and excellent hands he could do it, and even more maybe. But Malone wasn't the "anchor" back there. Eaton was the anchor, or Ostertag. Late in Mailman's career they got some mileage out of having young AK47 use his length to help. etc.
Boogie-havoc
Bench
DeMarcus's most glaring problem isn't really protecting the paint as to blocks etc.
It's being able to defend the pick and roll.
It's being able to defend the pick and roll.
Chupacabra
Starter
Shotblockers do more than just block shots. They alter shots at the rim effectively dropping the field goal percentage around the basket. All top tier teams have shot blocking at the rim.
Its unwise to put a scoring, low post powerforward next to Cousins because they occupy the same space. Low post, scoring bigmen need room to operate and if Cousins is going to be our guy then its wise that we dont crowd the lane.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
um...this is the second time somebody has raised TRob in summer league here. The other person was a longtime TRob booster, but really now. Nothing much has changed there. He is rebounding in summer league, he is not defending, still can't figure out what to do on offense and is shooting sub .400 and having turnover problems as usual. That is absolutely NOT what is or ever was needed next to Cousins. IN fact just as last year he'd fit right in with the rest fo the undersized junk we are stacking up there.
Look, I make this post occasionally, and will again just for reference. Cousins has the potential to be a GREAT center. When you have a great center what has ALWAYS worked is to pair him up front with a tough defensive roleplayer to watch his back. let me list out exactly what I am talking about:
Kareem --> Rambis, Green
Hakeem --> Thorpe, Horry
Admiral --> Rodman, Duncan
Ewing --> Oakley
Mourning --> PJ Brown
Shaq --> Grant, Horry, Haslem
Duncan (post Admiral) --> Nesterovic, Oberto, now Splitter etc.
this BTW is where Orlando fundamentally ****ed up with Dwight. they never got him that guy, and instead created a junkball/smallball structure around him leaving him all alone up front surrounded by soft tweener forwards who shot threes. He had no wingman up front, and it capped them and eventually failed. It also is something the Rockets failed to ever get set up around Yao, who instead had to endure unatheltic offensive minded guys in Juwann Howard and Lusi Scola. And again, that underachieved.
Now the additional issue with Cousins is that he is not the shotblocker -- all those all time great centers took care of the lane clogging themselves. That's not Boogie's game. Since he is not going to be the lane clogger himself he moves into this ground:
Daugherty --> Nance
Smits --> ADavis, DDavis
Cousins BTW has more defensive potential than either of those guys. But he absolutely needs help up front. He needs that defensive wingman to do the heavy lifting there next to him and keep him out of foul trouble, and in his case its a shotblocker. Its the single most important piece we can give him. Now last time this new front office was faced with a unique talent who was going to require a particular fit around him, they just dumped him for a lesser talent who was an easier fit. Here's hoping the numbnuts wise up this time. There is a way you do this. A way you have ALWAYS done this in the NBA. And if its oh so hard, who cares. You are only talking about creating a perennial contender if you get the structure right. Might be worth wising up a tad.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
Interesting you mention that, as I came across this scouting report:
Wait... that was about Marc Gasol a few years ago. Maybe there's still a chance?
From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz2ZVFBkkbA
NewArena
All-Star
Part of being a coach, is getting your players to believe that they can do anything they set their mind to. I'm pretty sure he's aware of how likely this is, but they at least want him to work towards that, and put as much effort in as possible. I can't be mad at that.
Malone was the best post defender on the Jazz when they were a contending team. Greg Ostertag was the best center that played during those years and he was a big space eater. I wouldn't expect DMC to defend the other teams best post player for the whole game. I would expect him to guard the other teams best post player during the 4th quarter of a close game and be able to shut him down.
ninjabiscuit
Bench
Well said. Why don't we give them a chance to prove that they know what they are doing?
Fear the Putin
Starter
nonsense!!
we knowz more, we've studied them intently and whatever we think is the right thing to do shall be the status quo!!!
KingsFanGER
Starter
While i respect your opinion, i disagree with you.
First - i mentioned Robinson, cause people are complaining about the lack of an athletic shotblocker on the Kings roster. Robinson is not a great defender yet, but he can certainly block shots and rebound. And he at least partially makes up for his size with his great quickness and agility.
Second - i already know, that you are preaching the benefits of the common setup of a defensive role-player next to a center, but i dont believe this is the only way, to create success. In todays NBA the successful frontcourt-combinations are the versatile ones. Splitter i.e. maybe a good defensive roleplayer, but he was benched over long periods of time during the finals, cause the Spurs were unable to defend Miamis small-ball with him on the floor and he wasn't able to contribute anything on the offensive end.
The pairing of a center and a defensive role player is extremely potent versus a slow paced half court offense, but can be weak versus dominant, athletic guards and a fast paced play style.
Furthermore to find a good defensive roleplayer is not an easy task. Those guys have a high value.
So it comes down to chasing this roleplayer and likely overpay for him, or try something different like developing Cousins into a potent defender and pair him with another hard-nosed PF, who can score and is a willing and mobile defender.
Like i said before: in a perfect world i would like to see someone like Ibaka next to Cousins, but we have to face the reality, that this is higly unlikely, cause the defensive minded, shotblocking PF's that are talented enough to start in the NBA (and not some kind of junk-minute guy like Aldrich) are not avaiable for us.
Your statement, that Cousins wont ever be able to clogg the paint, is another one i disagree with. He has all the tools to be a defensive presence, even if he doesn't block 2 shots per game.
Finally i m tired to discuss the Evans-Case once again. You can try to build a contender the hard way, but if you dont improve at all, a player like Cousins wont stay on your team for long. And if you follow a scheme, that is set in stone (like persuing a shotblocker, when there is noone available), it's gonna be a long time to improve, if you manage a franchise like the Kings.
Gary
All-Star
Yah it's been quite annoying. Almost (ALMOST!) as annoying as I had been in the past. Everything turns negative when a few of the same people post. They are the new "me".
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
No he really can't block shots, which is not surprising at his size. Did not in college, nor the pros. And his quickness is actually a product of his weakness -- he is light in the loafers. He lacks bulk and gets bounced around inside, so its going to be hard for him to ever be a stout post defender in the NBA.
jcwkings
All-Star
Theres no reason Cousins cant have the same defensive impact as someone like Tim Duncan. Both are long but not overly athletic, Cousins shows awareness in being able to draw charges. If he can dial in on rotations his length and body alone forces guards to alter their shots. Actually getting blocks is the ultimate bonus.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Nice dogma. Nice gobleegook. Now define "anchor". Now give me Malone's definition of "anchor". Now compare/contrast the two. Then tell me why it's such a bad, bad thing. If you can't do that, these are worthless meaningless words.
Hallama
Starter
Tim Duncan is known as one of the best defensive PF's of all time...just natural instincts and drive to play D. Getting Cousins to be an average modern NBA C/PF would be a huge leap for him.
Gary
All-Star
Cousins can be a fine defender. Not a lot of blocked shots, but he can use his body to block the lane and entry passes. We just have to make sure he doesn't get into foul trouble like he was for his first couple years.
As for the argument that "he hasn't been a good defender up until this point so what makes you think he can be one now?" I tend to think it's the same people that use that same argument about another player but were on the other side of the argument. So don't pay them no mind.
As for the argument that "he hasn't been a good defender up until this point so what makes you think he can be one now?" I tend to think it's the same people that use that same argument about another player but were on the other side of the argument. So don't pay them no mind.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
That is ridiculous. I am a huge Cousins jocker but that would get you completely laughed off of any non-Kings board on the net. And for good reason. Duncan is an all timer on defense. That's a gift, not something you just decide to become one day.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Its amazing how much more sense my gobleegook makes than nonsense posts like these that are just flat out intellectually dishonest.
The two chocies are either you know what I am talking about, or you are completely ignorant of basketball. Since you are not completely ignorant of basketball, then you know what I am talking about. Therefore pretending you don't to support an agenda is the true gobleegook.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
That all goes without saying. We've moved on and are currently discussing whether he can become Tim Duncan on defense or not.
Hallama
Starter
That all goes without saying. We've moved on and are currently discussing whether he can become Tim Duncan on defense or not.
It's possible
Hoovtrain
All-Star
That all goes without saying. We've moved on and are currently discussing whether he can become Tim Duncan on defense or not.
Well they are both once in a decade (maybe 2) type talents, so I see no reason why he can't be as good defensively
Padrino
All-Star
man, kf.com is such a confounding place. tyreke evans drew the ire and hyperbolic criticism of so many, despite the fact that he was the last player you could accuse of being "the problem" on this malformed, defensively inept roster. and if it wasn't evans drawing that criticism, it was, of course, demarcus cousins. and now i'm seeing all kinds of strange nonsense being bandied about regarding cousins' ability to "anchor" a defense, some of it coming from the same posters who've spent a good portion of the last couple of seasons trashing cousins at every turn. i don't get it. i mean, i've been as big a believer in demarcus cousins as you'll find on this board, but even i am not about to anoint cousins as the second coming of tim duncan just because the kings brought in a [rookie] defensive head coach...
i like mike malone's approach and his philosophy, and i hope that he can get DMC to compete consistently on the defensive side of the ball, and to develop better discipline during defensive sets, particularly in the pick and roll. but tim duncan he is not, nor will he ever be. duncan came into the league with an exceptional gift for defensive footwork, physicality, timing, and an ability to command the trust of his teammates. duncan also developed his defensive reputation in an era in which big men reigned supreme (o'neal, malone, webber, garnett, etc.), and duncan has since managed to ride that reputation into an era in which the little guy regularly gets all the foul calls. such a skill set and such a reputation can take you far when you're as highly-regarded around the league as tim duncan is...
demarcus cousins, on the other hand, has developed a reputation as a foul-prone complainer. even if malone can help stabilize cousins' defensive game, it's a different era of basketball, one where newly-seasoned big men like cousins, complete with an unfortunate reputation, are unlikely to establish defensive dominance because of the way the rule book has changed. penetration is the name of the game in the contemporary nba, because a wing player who can get to the rim is also a wing player who can get to the foul line. there's a reason defensive bigs are a dying breed. in his prime, dwight howard patrolled the paint as an athletic weak side shotblocker. he was a defensive "anchor" who regularly altered shots in the paint. cousins doesn't have that level of athleticism. roy hibbert and marc gasol stand out as two defensive "anchors" with limited athleticism, but neither have to shoulder the offensive responsibility that demarcus will have to take on in order for the kings to succeed...
DMC can become a competent defensive center, but it's highly unlikely that he'll ever achieve elite designation on that side of the ball, and i don't care how pedantically you want to approach a word like "anchor." a guy like cousins represents the height of the kings' offense. he needs to also be a contributor on defense, but it's just poor management to ask a young, immature big man like cousins to anchor both sides of the floor. he's foul prone. he's technical foul prone. he's had conditioning issues in the past. why do you want to try and overburden him at this important juncture of his career? i believe he'll be a superstar someday, but how about, instead of placing the entire weight of the franchise on the shoulders of a volatile young center, the kings' front office does its diligence and brings in veteran defensive roleplayers to ease some of the strain on cousins, who still needs to learn how to effectively play defense? doesn't that sound more reasonable?
i like mike malone's approach and his philosophy, and i hope that he can get DMC to compete consistently on the defensive side of the ball, and to develop better discipline during defensive sets, particularly in the pick and roll. but tim duncan he is not, nor will he ever be. duncan came into the league with an exceptional gift for defensive footwork, physicality, timing, and an ability to command the trust of his teammates. duncan also developed his defensive reputation in an era in which big men reigned supreme (o'neal, malone, webber, garnett, etc.), and duncan has since managed to ride that reputation into an era in which the little guy regularly gets all the foul calls. such a skill set and such a reputation can take you far when you're as highly-regarded around the league as tim duncan is...
demarcus cousins, on the other hand, has developed a reputation as a foul-prone complainer. even if malone can help stabilize cousins' defensive game, it's a different era of basketball, one where newly-seasoned big men like cousins, complete with an unfortunate reputation, are unlikely to establish defensive dominance because of the way the rule book has changed. penetration is the name of the game in the contemporary nba, because a wing player who can get to the rim is also a wing player who can get to the foul line. there's a reason defensive bigs are a dying breed. in his prime, dwight howard patrolled the paint as an athletic weak side shotblocker. he was a defensive "anchor" who regularly altered shots in the paint. cousins doesn't have that level of athleticism. roy hibbert and marc gasol stand out as two defensive "anchors" with limited athleticism, but neither have to shoulder the offensive responsibility that demarcus will have to take on in order for the kings to succeed...
DMC can become a competent defensive center, but it's highly unlikely that he'll ever achieve elite designation on that side of the ball, and i don't care how pedantically you want to approach a word like "anchor." a guy like cousins represents the height of the kings' offense. he needs to also be a contributor on defense, but it's just poor management to ask a young, immature big man like cousins to anchor both sides of the floor. he's foul prone. he's technical foul prone. he's had conditioning issues in the past. why do you want to try and overburden him at this important juncture of his career? i believe he'll be a superstar someday, but how about, instead of placing the entire weight of the franchise on the shoulders of a volatile young center, the kings' front office does its diligence and brings in veteran defensive roleplayers to ease some of the strain on cousins, who still needs to learn how to effectively play defense? doesn't that sound more reasonable?
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I don't know about that -- I've often made the point that for all the smallball chatter, the second round of the playoffs featured:
WC1)Andrew Bogut vs. Tim Duncan
WC2) Marc Gasol vs. Perkins/Ibaka
EC1) Hibbert vs. Chandler
EC2) Noah vs. Miami, who really took off when they picked up Chris Anderson.
In other words those defensive anchors looked just as absolutely essential for high level success as they always have. Its why its so critical we get one.
Padrino
All-Star
i don't disagree about the importance of defensive bigs (hence the appearance of just about all of them in the latter rounds of the playoffs). you and i are on the exact same page in that respect. i'm merely commenting on the utter dearth of them around the league, in general...
NewArena
All-Star
As we saw against guys like Dwight howard, he can be an incredible post defender
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
And that is precisely the defensive anchor argument. Cousins is not that guy. That doesn't mean he can't be a good man/team defender. He's strong, smart, has great hands. give him a few years he can be a factor down there. But never the guy who protects that paint for you at a high level.
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